Topic: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules  (Read 19972 times)

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Offline Dfly

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2005, 11:25:46 am »
Actually Dizzy ruled against the way he wanted it to be when he made the post about using the special
coulmn to determine what was a vanilla ship or not...



Yes he did, but only after trying to use an illegal combination vs us, and trying to convince us it was perfectly fine to use it.  Once we showed him the error of his ways and refused to fly vs his combination in this instance, he came to us roughtly 5 minutes later and agreed with us.

Offline Hexx

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2005, 11:41:23 am »
Actually Dizzy ruled against the way he wanted it to be when he made the post about using the special
coulmn to determine what was a vanilla ship or not...



Yes he did, but only after trying to use an illegal combination vs us, and trying to convince us it was perfectly fine to use it.  Once we showed him the error of his ways and refused to fly vs his combination in this instance, he came to us roughtly 5 minutes later and agreed with us.

So he thought something, was presented with a different viewpoint,decided that
he was wrong the first time, admitted this and posted a note about it.

And you're portraying this as a negative thing?
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

762_XC

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2005, 11:48:21 am »
Hexx, that depends on if you want to ascribe to the view that Dizzy actually believed the Z-DWD was a vanilla ship. Personally I think he's a little smarter than that.

Offline Hexx

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2005, 12:25:21 pm »
Hexx, that depends on if you want to ascribe to the view that Dizzy actually believed the Z-DWD was a vanilla ship. Personally I think he's a little smarter than that.


I don't  :P

But I'm a big enough person (I'll pause for jokes here).... that I'll say he thought
they were vanilla ships, and decided they weren't
He admitted he was wrong, posted rules that said he was wrong, and you guys (to me anyway)
seem to be upset over it.

To add a point to it, when Dizzy talked to me about it after talking to you guys yesterday
(this was before the rule was made. right after your argument)
we went through it. He explained his reasoning to me, I told him he was insane.
Then I told him it was his server & his rules, so he could decide what he wanted
He told me- literally-
"That it wouldn't be fair for one person to decide what ships would count and which ones would not"

I actually disagree with this- I think the guys running the server has to be a tyrant, but it's not something that someone who wants things his way would suggest.

Dizzy has a few issues I admit, he's egotistical, and actually seems to believe that he's a better pilot than I am. One thing he's not though is someone who's going to bend the rules to favour himself.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Riskyllama

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2005, 12:59:12 pm »

If you lose the match, run off the board and it doeen't end, why exactly should the winning guy be the one who has to forfeit??


I was under the impression that both parties were suppossed to act in a manner that was as easy as possible on the server, such as trying not to forfeit or alt out...especially if it could be done by the other side just flying off.
Everything is sweetened by risk. ~Alexander Smith

Offline Bonk

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2005, 01:16:41 pm »
If nobody was running software firewalls this discussion would not even be happening!  :P  ;D

762_XC

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2005, 02:34:41 pm »
If only that were true.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2005, 02:59:51 pm »
So you're positively sure no one in that mission was running a software firewall?

762_XC

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2005, 03:27:16 pm »
I'm positively sure there have been drops that have had nothing to do with firewalls.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2005, 03:44:15 pm »
And you know this because in those cases you're positively sure nobody was running a software firewall?

And (again) in this case, you're positively sure no one in that mission was running a software firewall?

Also, in this case I understand no one dropped, the mission failed to end properly, which is something different entirely. As an exaggerated example, I can pull my network cable out of my router and cause a drop... no software firewall involved...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 03:56:03 pm by Bonk »

Offline Dizzy

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2005, 03:48:57 pm »
You know Dizzy, the reason you came up with this was because a situation didn't go the way you wanted...
You had a bugged mission with live players that wouldn't end properly and rather than fying off the map, you COMMANDED the Coalition players to Alt (against your previous insistance), when they asked to to fly off the map instead, you refused...WHY...?
In hope you might get a 1 DV shift in your favor when the Coalition guys alted?
In hope when they relogged you could bounce them alone...?
Then, when they continued to ask you to fly off rather than alting out (and having to reboot, relog, etc) you get mad, drop off,  and come up with additional rules 2/3 of the way through a campaign... :-\

Are you just hoping to irritate us to the point we'll stop playing as much or something...?
Not gonna happen...you only strengthen our resolve and add another incident in the long history of you doing such asinine things...
Must it really be this way, Diz...?


I dont know where you get your information, but you dont know what ur talking about.


1st off, for those that dont know what was going on, there are 3 issues people seem to discussing at the same time.

Here's the 1st one. I was flying a CC and a DD and was told I couldnt field the DD I was flying. Since the rules are vague on what is and isnt a vanilla DD and after arguing the point that one cannot arbitrarily decide which destroyer is vanilla and which isnt based solely off what weapons it has, I deferred to the shiplist column F which designates all ships non-vanilla and made a mid server rule change. The ship I was fielding happened to be a non vanilla so I sold it. This ends all speculation on this issue. Furthermore, afaicr, there was only one mission flown with my 'illegal' combo and that's all it took to clear the issue up forevermore. Case closed.


2nd issue involved 2 players who disengaged after not much a fight at all. This non-bugged perfectly good mission (up to it not closing) wouldnt end. The losers refused to 'ESC Forfeit' after I asked repeatedly for them to do, upon which they countered I also fly off the map to get the mission to end. I refused, so we were at an impasse. I ended up ALTing out in frustration, I'd had enough, and immediately made the new rule: If a mission doesnt end, the team that lost/disengaged will ESC Forfeit to properly end the mission to prevent crashes and improper DV shifts. The reason for the rule is obvious. Some players do not understand that doing anything other than this will either lead to a CTD or an improper DV shift. Unlike Krueg said above, I did not ask them to alt out, I asked them to ESC Forfeit. For those of you that do not know, ESC Forfeit will give you a mission loss and take you to the debriefing screen.


3rd issue involved a player who disengaged from a Planet hex and was then immediately drafted again by me after moving into one of the now banned hexes around it. (remember according to the rules if you disengage from a planet hex, ur banned from all the surrounding hexes for 15 turns). In the mission the player AltF4'd to get out of the mission to prevent me from getting a DV shift. This is against the rules, you cant altF4 unless the mission is bugged and all players agree and this still doesnt get you off the hook as you are obliged to retry the mission. The issue is simple here. Following a player into a hex they are banned from and drafting them is perfectly legal. There is no new rule on this, it all falls within the rules as they are now written. The banned player of the hex simply must now disengage.

    Going further, if on the planet hex, the player who disengages is badly hurt and may not have the power to make it off the map on the subsequent mission moving thru a now banned surrounding hex does NOT get a free pass by Alting out. They are obliged to play the mission out to either one of 2 outcomes, they win or lose. This issue was contentious because the player being drafted by me felt I had no chance of catchng him and I was going for a free DV. I in fact wasnt even thinking about the ban hex rule, I was just follow up engaging, as is usual practice for me. If I allowed a player to decide what is and isnt a valid follow up draft into a banned hex determined by who is or isnt damaged enough to make it off the map on a follow up draft thru a banned hex, we'd not hear the end of it. This is not an issue that deserves more complicated rules based off of who thinks a ship has the engine power to escape off the map and who doesnt.



If you play plz abide by the rules. If you disgree with the rules, the RM's take it up with me in private chat, NOT here, TY, and till something is decided one way or the other, continue playing by the rules or dont play.


Diz

Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2005, 04:20:13 pm »
Quote
I'd had enough, and immediately made the new rule:

 :-\

762_XC

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2005, 04:54:58 pm »
Issue #1

I am calling BS here. You never for a second believed a Z-DWD, obviously a droner and arguably the best hex flipper in the game, was vanilla. Don't try to justify this nonsense by saying "we made no rule as to what was vanilla". You know damn well what the second D stands for.

Furthermore, I think you actually trying to sell this as vanilla was insulting to the intelligence of every player you were trying to convince. You might as well call dog p00p roast beef.

Issue #2

You may have been right. I wasn't there. But adding a rule mid-server to favor your position was lame. At the very least discuss it with the RM's first.

Issue #3

It is difficult to believe a PvP-oriented player such as yourself was unaware of the consequences of losing on a planet hex. You raised a good point with a player being too hurt to get off the map but that is something which will happen only once in a hundred games, and you knew the situation did not apply here. Given your behavior on the other issues presented here it is far more likely you knew Frey was banned from the ring hex when you went in, and were looking for a cheap DV. Krueg was not on at the time so I take full responsibility for instructing him to alt.

There was one more issue yesterday which you did not mention.

Issue #4

While waiting for a redraft of a bad load you went back to base to repair damage taken in a previous PvP. It doesn't matter if it was 1 internal or 100, this was VERY bad form and poor sportsmanship. Why bother having a redraft rule if you are going to do this?

All of these things individually may or may not be minor, but taken in conjunction they form a disturbing pattern. What's even more disturbing is that they all happened on the same day.

I'm not trying to come down on you Diz, but bottom line is, if you want peeps to respect your rules you need to start doing the same.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2005, 05:06:23 pm »
I'm positively sure there have been drops that have had nothing to do with firewalls.

You are currently online and I get no reply when I ping your IP address, therefore you are running a firewall (software?)... perhaps this is why you defend their use? (or do you just run it while browsing the web then fully disable it to login to the Dynaverse?)

Offline KBFLordKrueg

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2005, 05:08:51 pm »
Issue #1

I am calling BS here. You never for a second believed a Z-DWD, obviously a droner and arguably the best hex flipper in the game, was vanilla. Don't try to justify this nonsense by saying "we made no rule as to what was vanilla". You know damn well what the second D stands for.

Furthermore, I think you actually trying to sell this as vanilla was insulting to the intelligence of every player you were trying to convince. You might as well call dog p00p roast beef.

Issue #2

You may have been right. I wasn't there. But adding a rule mid-server to favor your position was lame. At the very least discuss it with the RM's first.

Issue #3

It is difficult to believe a PvP-oriented player such as yourself was unaware of the consequences of losing on a planet hex. You raised a good point with a player being too hurt to get off the map but that is something which will happen only once in a hundred games, and you knew the situation did not apply here. Given your behavior on the other issues presented here it is far more likely you knew Frey was banned from the ring hex when you went in, and were looking for a cheap DV. Krueg was not on at the time so I take full responsibility for instructing him to alt.

There was one more issue yesterday which you did not mention.

Issue #4

While waiting for a redraft of a bad load you went back to base to repair damage taken in a previous PvP. It doesn't matter if it was 1 internal or 100, this was VERY bad form and poor sportsmanship. Why bother having a redraft rule if you are going to do this?

All of these things individually may or may not be minor, but taken in conjunction they form a disturbing pattern. What's even more disturbing is that they all happened on the same day.

I'm not trying to come down on you Diz, but bottom line is, if you want peeps to respect your rules you need to start doing the same.

Well...
Issue #1 Wasn't there for that one, but heard about it. I'm forced to agree that the DWD could hardly be considered "vanilla", tho.
Maybe better clarifications of the Fleeting rules are/were in order.
Or maybe consider even simply dropping them altogether as potentially too volatol.  ;)

Issue #2 I was there for that. At first the way you handled the whole thing "As Server admin I order you to forfiet" was pretty harsh and drew the usual reaction when such situations are handled in that manner... ::)
Maybe if it was more of a "New Rules Proposal" to avoid further situations rather than a "This is the Way It Is!" type of thing, heh?  ;)

Issue #3 Wasn't there for it, didn't even know about it until now.

I issue #4 Was there for that, and Tool has a very good point... :-\

Now...kids...go back out and play nice with each other... ;D  :P
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Offline KBFLordKrueg

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2005, 05:11:49 pm »
I'm positively sure there have been drops that have had nothing to do with firewalls.

You are currently online and I get no reply when I ping your IP address, therefore you are running a firewall (software?)... perhaps this is why you defend their use? (or do you just run it while browsing the web then fully disable it to login to the Dynaverse?)

You're...pinging us...to see if we're telling the truth...?  :-\ Um.......
Lord Krueg
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762_XC

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2005, 05:16:42 pm »
I'm positively sure there have been drops that have had nothing to do with firewalls.

You are currently online and I get no reply when I ping your IP address, therefore you are running a firewall (software?)... perhaps this is why you defend their use? (or do you just run it while browsing the web then fully disable it to login to the Dynaverse?)

Honestly Bonk that's a little creepy. I am not defending FW use. Reread what I posted.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2005, 05:28:34 pm »
No need to re-read it, I understood the first time, I just made the logical assumption that you are in favour of their use while playing because you are obviously avoiding the question. It is not creepy, it is logical to gather evidence with all the tools available when making a logical argument.  If you find it creepy that explains a lot. That would be paranoid. That implies I am out to get you or something or are interested in your personal information, which of course I am not. You should know full well my only interest here is the stability of Dynaverse missions.

So will you answer the question please?

it was:

So you're positively sure no one in that mission was running a software firewall?

Offline Bonk

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2005, 05:29:35 pm »
I'm positively sure there have been drops that have had nothing to do with firewalls.


You are currently online and I get no reply when I ping your IP address, therefore you are running a firewall (software?)... perhaps this is why you defend their use? (or do you just run it while browsing the web then fully disable it to login to the Dynaverse?)


You're...pinging us...to see if we're telling the truth...?  :-\ Um.......


Everytime someone drafts you on the server they are doing the same, everytime you play on gamespy or play a direct game you are pinged...does that bother you?

And I resent the implication, I only pinged one user (762 - another admin at that) to prove a point...

I'd swear you guys think I'm some kind of pervert or something... highly offensive...   :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: <nose firmly in air>

You all need to read about how networks work for chrissake you should be able to be pinged... "stealth" mode is unhealthy for networks for a plethora of reasons... <grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!> <restrains self...>   

(I'm going back to my gamespy room page development... I see plenty of IP addresses and pings there all bloody day today... I'm currently working on removing the ip addresses from the page so I can put the page up permanently on our site...
who's on gamespy? - look here... http://www.dynaverse.net/gslist.php)

Let me know once you've all read up on networks and have gotten over your irrational paranoia...  (sheesh , and I'm the ex toker here...  ::))
« Last Edit: October 23, 2005, 07:40:15 pm by Bonk »

Offline likkerpig

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Re: Slave Girls V Server Description, Storyline and Rules
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2005, 05:40:32 pm »
I'm positively sure there have been drops that have had nothing to do with firewalls.

You are currently online and I get no reply when I ping your IP address, therefore you are running a firewall (software?)... perhaps this is why you defend their use? (or do you just run it while browsing the web then fully disable it to login to the Dynaverse?)

You're...pinging us...to see if we're telling the truth...?  :-\ Um.......

Everytime someone drafts you on the server they are doing the same, everytime you play on gamespy or play a direct game you are oinged...does that bother you?

And I resent the implication, I only pinged one user (762 - another admin at that) to prove a point...

I'd swear you guys think I'm some kind of pervert or something... highly offensive...   :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: <nose firmly in air>

Bit off topic here Bonk, but a question.
Lets say I'm using xp's built in firewall and turn it off to play on the dynaverse... doesn't that leave me vulnerable to hackers? On that note, how likely is one to be "hacked" anyway? Nothing interesting on my comp anyway, but I suppose they could use my ip to do whatever nefarious deeds they desire while wanking away in mommies basement (hate hackers/crackers/virus makers.. whatever).
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