Topic: Best Motherboard & other suggestions for a new Windows 98se computer

[Kid Carrson]

For a number of reasons, I'm putting together a new computer at work.  I have a requirement regarding costs (around $1,000 or less without monitor), and  I have 2 other requirements.  The computer will have to run on Windows 98se, and my personal requirement, it must run SFC OP and well.

If you had these requirements, what would you get if you were putting it together yourself?  Please state the motherboard, video cards, ram, hard drives, cases, fans, etc.   I'm guessing it may be getting hard to find a good motherboard with drivers well designed for Windows 98SE. 

Thanks for any thoughts or helpful hints.

Kid Carrson

[Javora]

Hmmm.

You could try a mom & pop store and see if they have a old PIII 1000mhz system for sale for about $100USD.  And I don't think I would spend more than $100~200USD on a system like that.  Then spend a few extra bucks for things like Ram, video card, sound card, speakers, CD/DVD drive, etc.  I wouldn't too much if you replace the video card, $100~150USD tops.  That should leave you with some serious cash to buy something else, a good monitor or maybe even upgrade the operating system perhaps.   

Aside from that you could buy a off the shelf box for about $600USD out the door and just reformat the hard drive and put Win98se on it.  I think you would end up better off with the requirements that you stated by going with the mom & pop shop though.  I'm curious to see what you end up with.  Good luck, hope this helps.

[Kid Carrson]

Probably a better question to ask the group is:

what motherboards have you had great success with when running windows 98se and SFC OP? 

I'd like the computer to b stable even when I run SFC OP with as many ships as possible.

Thanks.

KC

[Javora]

Probably a better question to ask the group is:

what motherboards have you had great success with when running windows 98se and SFC OP? 

I'd like the computer to b stable even when I run SFC OP with as many ships as possible.

Thanks.

KC

Kid has a good point, the trick is finding that system if it is an off brand.  I still think you would be better off buying a cheap off the shelf system and using WinXP given the requirements you listed.  Win98se was just too easy to become corrupted.  I swear I was reformatting/reloading my hard drive every couple of months with Win98se.

[Mr_Tricorder]

There is a problem with buying an off-the-shelf computer, reformatting the hard drive, and installing Windows 98SE.  DRIVERS!
I've had a particularly hard time with getting HP drivers for computers that I've reformatted and installed a plain vanilla Windows OS (both 98SE and XP).  Besides, if you build the computer yourself, you have a much greater control over the quality of components in your computer.  I've seen some brand name computers with some pretty shoddy comonents.

[Javora]

There is a problem with buying an off-the-shelf computer, reformatting the hard drive, and installing Windows 98SE.  DRIVERS!
I've had a particularly hard time with getting HP drivers for computers that I've reformatted and installed a plain vanilla Windows OS (both 98SE and XP).  Besides, if you build the computer yourself, you have a much greater control over the quality of components in your computer.  I've seen some brand name computers with some pretty shoddy comonents.

That is why I stated he should stay with WinXP with a off the shelf system.  Since WinXP comes preloaded on the system drivers won't be an issue.  Also while I totally agree with you on the point of shoddy components in pre-built computers (I was a Dell owner  ) it is also more expensive to build now a days and he is trying to keep the costs down.  That is why I suggested the mom & pop computer store angle, as they might have a cheap system for sale that he can customize.

[Kid Carrson]

The operating system requirement is the real trick, isn't it?

Unfortunately, XP is not an option for me on this matter.  The boss is comfy with Windows 98SE, and we live in the relative dark ages at work (when it comes to computers).  He insists that we use 98SE. 

KC 

[Mr_Tricorder]

I would look at ebay for most of the hardware components.  A little over a year ago, I managed to get an ATI Radeon 9200SE with 128MB DDR RAM AGP graphics card (new) for $40 and a Soundblaster Audigy2 card (the one with a firewire port) for $50 (used, but with everything originally included in the box).

Also, when selecting your components, go for quality over price (avoid off-brand parts).  It's better to spend a little more money on a part made by a trusted company than to buy the off-brand equivalent (that probably doesn't work quite right) and have to replace it shortly after the warranty runs out (if it even has a warranty).  After having to replace my motherboard over two years ago due to leaky capacitors, I will only buy ASUS motherboards now.

If sound quality is important to you, buy a sound card and try not to buy a motherboard with on-board sound.  You can't go wrong with Soundblaster.  Soundblaster Live cards are very inexpensive and would probably be perfect for your system.  You can spend a little more and get an Audigy or Audigy2 card, but Live would probably work just fine.  Also, Turtle Beach makes good quality sound cards.  I would recommend checking out their cards as well.

By the way, XP doesn't always come preloaded with the drivers you need, expecially for brand-name computers.  As I said earlier, HP computers have been particularly troublesome.  I have never been able to install Windows XP from an ordinary installation disc onto a HP computer made in the last few years and have full sound and video capabilities because it doesn't have the appropriate drivers, and you can just forget about downloading them from the internet.  HP's website is horrible and it's a waste of time to look for drivers there.  I'm not sure, but the best that I can figure out is that if you need drivers, HP wants you to pay them to mail you a CD with the drivers that you need  .  HP's calculators, printers, and scanners are OK, but avoid all other HP products like the plague.

[Nemesis]

I have used (and seen used) several ASUS A7N variants with Windows 98SE quite successfully.  As they are no longer in production those stores that have them often will be at discounted prices.  The Athlon XP chips for the boards are also discontinued so again if you find a place with stock the prices tend to be heavily discounted.

If you find a place that has them check the ASUS site for Win98SE drivers for that model and if they have them then you know the board is supported.  Ati Radeon cards for AGP all seem to be supported with Win98 (I have used up to the Radeon 9200 with SE)

[Kid Carrson]

I've been looking at an ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe as the motherboard. 

Wondering if anyone has used that motherboard with windows 98SE and SFC OP.  What ASUS variants have you used which also ran SFC OP well?

KC

[The Postman]

I've been looking at an ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe as the motherboard. 

Wondering if anyone has used that motherboard with windows 98SE and SFC OP.  What ASUS variants have you used which also ran SFC OP well?

KC

That board uses HT processors which will be complete waste in 98SE. IF you NEVER intend to upgrade to 2000 or XP Instead I would look for an older non HT board. I had great luck with a Shuttle AV40 running 98SE and OP. it uses the older 400fsb P4's and PC2100 DDR ram. You can still  find those 400fsb P4's at 2.5 or 2.6 occasionally.

[Kid Carrson]

Thanks Postman.  Good info.

KC

[Sarek]

The operating system requirement is the real trick, isn't it?

Unfortunately, XP is not an option for me on this matter.  The boss is comfy with Windows 98SE, and we live in the relative dark ages at work (when it comes to computers).  He insists that we use 98SE. 

KC 

Hmm...comfy because he has a copy of W98 and can install it where ever he wants for free vs. paying for XP?  If so he's an idiot; all it takes is for one disgruntled employee to rat on him to the BSA and he'll be facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines.

 

[Kid Carrson]

Sheez  Sarek, who pissed in your corn flakes?  Watch the assumptions!  You sir, are way OFF BASE! 

NO, I'm very confident that he has licenses for every copy of Windows 98SE.  He's about as anal retentive as it gets.  He just hates the learning curve on new systems and the business interruptions when changes occur.  We still use very old versions of many software items.  It took a long time to get us out of DOS and into a windows environment.     

KC

[KBF MalaK]

Well I built my last computer for about 800 (rough estimate) by going to computer shows.
MB/CPU/256Mb RAM combo   ASUS P4B w P4 1600 133 Mhz SDR  - 325
(CPU was mfr boxed so the fan/heatsink came with it)
case -w- 350 watt power supply  - 35
twin WD  40 Gig 7200 RPM Harddrives   - 150
keyboard and 3 button mouse -  22
3 inch fan -  5
Radion 7200  -  99
Creative SBLive 5.1 -  25
Speakers -  15
17 in NEC monitor -  100
LITON DVD drive -  40
Phillips 44X12 DVR/W drive -  75
3.5 in. floppy -  10
10/100 Compaq NC3121 fast ethernet NIC -w- wake on LAN -  20
(tho' I'm on dialup at the moment (USR X2 modem -  15 bucks))
I picked up 2 256Mb DDRs about 6 months later for about 65 bucks.
I've always run 98se and whatever else I need I get off E-mule, The computer has proven extremely stable and reliable and I normally run NFS hot persuit 2 in 800X600 Hi color and get 80 FPS. I built this about a year and a half ago so I think the prices are comparable to current.

I just recently picked up a Gigabyte GA-7DXR+ for 15 bucks and a AMD 2200 XP+ of EBAY for 40 bucks. I'm looking forward to testing this new (old) stuff this weekend. So I can tell you that good components are out there if you look hard enough. I see that Dell has some good deals for around 500 bucks, one of those would be a great basic machine that can be cheaply upgraded.

[Nemesis]

Hmm...comfy because he has a copy of W98 and can install it where ever he wants for free vs. paying for XP?  If so he's an idiot; all it takes is for one disgruntled employee to rat on him to the BSA and he'll be facing hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines.

All it takes is one disgruntled employee to "rat him out" and he will face an expensive audit.  Guilt or innocence is irrelevant, the audit will be expensive.  Can you find all the proofs of authenticity for all your personal software?   Could you stand a personal software audit?  Most can't.

Some people stick with older software that they just happen to prefer.  Others have programs that cannot run on more recent versions of Windows.  Where I work we have an old spectrograph that has drivers for Win3.1 and Win98.  When the original Win3.1 machine died an old Win98 machine was pulled out of the storage room and set up for it. 

This interview with a BSA representative might prove interesting

Here is a link to a BSA threat for "piracy".  Obviously innocent if the BSA idiot had just looked at the information.

A link to how the BSA does piracy estimates

To derive its piracy rate, IDC estimates the average amount of software that is installed on a PC per country, using data from surveys, interviews and other studies. That figure is then reduced by the known quantity of software sold per country-a calculation in which IDC specialises. The result: a (supposed) amount of piracy per country. Multiplying that figure by the revenue from legitimate sales thus yields the retail value of the unpaid-for software. This, IDC and BSA claim, equals the amount of lost revenue.

Note the unpaid for software comment.  Like OpenOffice or downloadable versions of Linux.  Open Source = Piracy according to the way they do their study.

[Kid Carrson]

Thanks for the thoughts IKV Nemesis.

Audits of any kind stink. 

Since we personally are in a HEAVILY regulated environment, legal, tax, and financial, we have to deal with all kinds of audits on a regular basis:  IRS tax audits for clients, SEC audits for investment advisors, audits of funds for trust accounts, probate audits for estate matters, then of course the regular audits that most businesses incur (business licenses, property taxes, etc.).  Audits stink, but we deal with them frequently, and help clients with them constantly.  Just the nature of the beast. 

We are one of the few small businesses I've seen that actually keep extremely detailed records of software licenses.  I guess we're used to the anal probes for the most part!  Still no fun though.

We don't use older software because of the costs to purchase new software.  That's silly.  No, it's the downtime to learn the new software and make the business function properly that is the real cost that we struggle to afford.  When you have employees charging far over $100 an hour, that downtime can hurt fast. 

We're just slow technology adapters.  We like to see others work through the bugs first. 

KC


 
     

[Kid Carrson]

Lord_Malek:

Thanks.  Just the kind of info I'm looking for. 

KC

[Sarek]

Sheez  Sarek, who pissed in your corn flakes?  Watch the assumptions!  You sir, are way OFF BASE! 

NO, I'm very confident that he has licenses for every copy of Windows 98SE.  He's about as anal retentive as it gets.  He just hates the learning curve on new systems and the business interruptions when changes occur.  We still use very old versions of many software items.  It took a long time to get us out of DOS and into a windows environment.     

KC

Sorry that I came to the wrong conclusion.  It just makes no sense for someone to stick with W98 because of the learning curve.  You could set him up on an XP machine using the classic desktop and he probably wouldn't know the difference.

[Kid Carrson]

Thanks Sarek, no problem. 

When we looked at changing to XP about 2 or so years ago, another law firm went nuts implementing the change.  They had so many problems, it scared us bigtime. 

Probably stupid not to do it now, but I can at least understand the why.

KC

[E_Look]

Don't feel bad about using old equipment.

Even is research, we often run on old 486s, 386s, 286s, ... no I'm not done yet, as I've seen folks' expensive equipment that can only communicate with the old 8086s... and have even seen an Apple IIe around.  About fifteen years ago, some guy even broke out his old Osbourne.  It looked so sci fi us younguns (at the time) that we had to fight back giggles.

I mean, when your funding is tight, you go with what you have if it still produces good results.

In fact, those old DOS dinosaurs are EASIER TO USE AND TROUBLESHOOT, especially if you still have your old 5.25" floppies with the source programs!

[KBF MalaK]

The trick with win 98se is to use dos or VXD drivers. 98 doesn't like the WDM drivers. If at all possible setup a new PC using only DOS and make sure everything works, then install win98. If need be- LIE to windows regarding your hardware, my SBLive 5.1 ships with WDM drivers, but I got better results telling windows my sound card is an Audigy and using the VXD drivers for an audigy. AND make sure your BIOS doesn't think you have a PNP OS, and avoid winmodems.

[Bonk]

I got an old Compaq Deskpro 2000 5233MMX at a yardsale for $3. (Pentium 233MMX, 160MB RAM) Its perfect for Win98SE, runs great! I don't think I'd bother with P4s or Athlons and win98, that just seems silly to me.

"new Windows 98se computer" - just does not make any sense, get old parts dirt cheap. Save your money and time.

I ran SFC OP on a Pentium 233MMX on a Gigabyte GA586T2 mainboard with a Matrox 4MB video card on Win95B for ages... (I found Win95B superior to Win98SE in every way...)