Topic: A question for the gun owners

[KAT J'inn]

I've been into skeet and trap shooting for a while now.

Well . . .


Now I'm thinking of buying a pistol for target shooting.   Nothing competitive, just for fun.  Secondary use would be home defense but the odds of that ever being an issue are thankfully low.

Now, I know zilch about pistols.

The guys the range are telling me to buy a Colt 1911 .45.  WHile it's not fancy they say it is accurrate and will last forever. Also they tell me that since it's been around for almost 100 years that it's easy to get parts and such.  Is this correct?

I found a good used Colt 1911 for $700.00.  Is that fair?

[Sirgod]

That's pretty resonable , but given your Profession, I'd go for a .44 mag Desert eagle. <snikers>

Stephen

[Dracho]

Shooting a .45 is going to be expensive.  

For plain target practice, get yourself a nice .22 rimfire, or learn to reload your own rounds and make wadcutters (just enough oomph to cut paper =  cheap).

For home defense, I suggest a revolver.  It's simple and you very seldom need to put 14 rounds downrange in your living room.  I personally own a .357 S&W.  I like the .357 because you can shoot 38 specials in it for practice (which is a tad cheaper, but not as cheap as a .22).  Unless you are facing a guy with an AK-47, an automatic can be overly complicated in a firefight you just got out of bed to engage in.  You'll be 0-to-full adrenaline and sometimes things go wrong.  If a revolver jams, you pull the trigger again and go to the next bullet.  No fighting with the slide while bullets are whistling by your head.

Honestly though, I keep a loaded shotgun in the house for home defense.  It's a 9 shot Winchester Defender Riotgun, 12 ga with a pistol grip.  I alternate the bullets between 00 Buckshot and rifled deer slugs.  
My reasons being three-fold:  

The sound of a shotgun jacking a round in the dark will cause most burgulars to crap themselves on the way back out the door
You do not have aim it out of a dead sleep.  Point it in their general direction and you're probably going to hit something, or scare them to death
A shotgun isn't going to go through the side of the house, across the street, through my neighbors house, and kill him in his bed


Also, a .22 has wonderful ballistics for target shooting, and by its nature is a highly accurate round.  Most of the Olympic level shooters are using some variation of a .22.

[Sirgod]

SHH. Your using commen sense, and I don't want to loose the Picture in my mind of seeing Will firing a Desert eagle the first time. 

Stephen

[Dracho]

SHH. Your using commen sense, and I don't want to loose the Picture in my mind of seeing Will firing a Desert eagle the first time. 

Stephen

Would that make him a..

Are you ready?


Here it comes....

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 Legal Eagle?

[Sirgod]

LOLOLOLOL

Poor J'inn just get's no respect. I mean Rodney Dangerfield Has more respect then J'inn.

stephen

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

For home defense, I suggest a revolver.  It's simple and you very seldom need to put 14 rounds downrange in your living room.  I personally own a .357 S&W.  I like the .357 because you can shoot 38 specials in it for practice (which is a tad cheaper, but not as cheap as a .22).  Unless you are facing a guy with an AK-47, an automatic can be overly complicated in a firefight you just got out of bed to engage in.  You'll be 0-to-full adrenaline and sometimes things go wrong.  If a revolver jams, you pull the trigger again and go to the next bullet.  No fighting with the slide while bullets are whistling by your head.

Honestly though, I keep a loaded shotgun in the house for home defense.  It's a 9 shot Winchester Defender Riotgun, 12 ga with a pistol grip.  I alternate the bullets between 00 Buckshot and rifled deer slugs. 
My reasons being three-fold: 

The sound of a shotgun jacking a round in the dark will cause most burgulars to crap themselves on the way back out the door
You do not have aim it out of a dead sleep.  Point it in their general direction and you're probably going to hit something, or scare them to death
A shotgun isn't going to go through the side of the house, across the street, through my neighbors house, and kill him in his bed

Ummm... with the exception of those slugs!?!?!?

Otherwise I agree with this comment on the shotgun thing.

Only I am packing slightly more interesting rounds.

[Dracho]

Deer slugs are big, but mostly hollow and flatten out on impact.  They'd flatten and drop (after going through the drywall & siding) before crossing the 100 yards between our houses.

[Aldaron_Nirantani]

I have a 9mm Ruger, can buy 100 rounds for $10.00 for target practice.

[Bonk]

I don't own a gun, but if i'm not mistaken aren't rifles far superior for target shooting? The short barrel of a pistol makes for a short range inaccurate shot doesn't it? Pistols are for short range personal defense(offense) aren't they?

[Dracho]

It depends (My college meterology professor's favorite phrase)..


There are actually two classes of competetion shooting.  Rifles and Pistols (Skeet for Shotguns).

Pistol competetion is further broken down into simple accuracy competetion, and more interactive "Hogan's Alley" type competetions where the shooter must move between firing positions and engage multiple targets at various angles.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Deer slugs are big, but mostly hollow and flatten out on impact.  They'd flatten and drop (after going through the drywall & siding) before crossing the 100 yards between our houses.

There ain't no '100 yards' between houses here.

If I pee out the window, I can hit their driveway.

[Bonk]

If I pee out the window, I can hit their driveway.

Somehow, I sense you've tested that... 

It depends (My college meterology professor's favorite phrase)..


There are actually two classes of competetion shooting. Rifles and Pistols (Skeet for Shotguns).

Pistol competetion is further broken down into simple accuracy competetion, and more interactive "Hogan's Alley" type competetions where the shooter must move between firing positions and engage multiple targets at various angles.

Ah, I was picturing the type I had seen in the olympics; looked like a few hundred yards to the target.

[Dracho]

Ah.. that ski & shoot event always intrigued me.  It must be very difficult to hold a steady hand after cross-country skiing.

[KAT J'inn]

Hmmm cost . . ..  good point . . .

They want like $30.00 for 100 .45 rounds.       But the .45 is so much more fun.  BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!

I'll just put two .22 rounds in at a time.  That comes to .44 which I figure is close enough.

[Dracho]

Well.. the truth of the matter is.. you don't have to limit yourself to one weapon.  Sometimes that hand canon can be.. theraputic..

[Sten]

Whats nice about the 45 is its not considered a high velocity round like the 9mm.

When the 45 hits a target it tends to mushroon and knock the crap out of the target.

Its less prone to passing through former clients and hitting the kid across the street eating ice cream.

Because the 45 is a "low velocity" round it will dish out more kinetic damage to whatever you hit than a 9mm will.

Of course the fatal shot will still be the bill you send to your clients.

[Villa64]

Try a Ruger Single Six.  It is a cheap, reliable, simple .22 revolver and you can change the cylinder out for a .22 Mag.  Not a home defense gun, but you can shoot a whole lot of bullets for real cheap on the range.  Great little snake gun if you are wandering out in the sticks.

Villa

[jualdeaux]

Okay. I'll jump in here. To rephrase your question, you are looking fo a gun for range work and home defense. Two good things to get one for. There are some things to consider.

One: There is no such thing as knockdown power. Pistol cartridges are notoriously short on power. Getting hit with one has about the same effect as getting hit with a fast baseball. Unless you hit the central nervous system, the thing that stops the perp is the loss of blood and the psychological effect of getting hit. People have been known to have their heart shot out and still have deliberate movement for 10-12 seconds. In that time they could conceivably kill everyone in you family. Other people have also been known to fall down if they just get scratched on the arm. So, shot placement is the key.

Two: Modern technology has minimized the differences between the different calibres. For example, The 230gr. Winchester Ranger T (RA45T) in .45 ACP will expand to .53 to .75 inches depending on the barrier, if any, it has to go through and will penetrate 11.6 and 16.5 inches. The 147gr. Winchester Ranger T (RA9T) in 9mm will expand to .45 tp .67 inches depending onthe barrier and penetrate 10.8 to 17 inches, again depending on the barrier. i got these numbers from the Winchester LEO ammunition catalog. There is not that much difference. So, if you are using a quality, modern hollow point design, you will be fine with either of the above two and all the usual calibres.

Three: don't worry about over penetration of the perp and worry about the rounds that totally miss the target. In most encounters very few of the bullets actually hit the target anyway. learning to shoot straight, and under some pressure, is what you need to do.

Four: The best way to learn to shoot is to get a .22lr double action/single action revolver for your first gun. Don't get anything expensive for a while yet. .22lr ammo is very inexpensive so you can shoot a lot of it and get proficient without spending a lot of cash. Find a place that has instructors and get some qualified instruction. They will cover the basics in types of firearms, safety and marksmenship. Then, find a range that will rent guns for you to try out and try some. This might cost a bit, but it could save you money in the long run. If you don't do this you might get a cool looking gun and find out later that you suck with it and should have gotten something else. Find the one that suits you the best. You'll know that by how well it sits in your hand and how well you shoot it.

Five: Cost. Ammo for different calibres cost differently. 9mm is inexpensive. You can get Winchester White Box 9mm 100 round value packs for about $11.50 at Wal-mart. .40 S&W goes for about $16 and .45ACP goes for about $18-19. If you are on a budget, and/or plan to shoot a lot, 9mm will get you more practice. Premuim defensive amo is another story. it will be expensive no matter what you choose. don't skimp on this part. Cheap ball ammo is great for the range but I don't trust my life to it. Also, don't let the cost of the gun get in the way necessarily. There are good guns for not much $. Lots of people use Star BMs and those you can get for about $150. You can also spend over $1000 for a Kimber. So, choose your budget and look around. You can find something to fit your needs.

All the above is general and well known advice.

For some personal advice, you said that you don't want to get competitive or anything. That is fine but I like the way those competitions, such as IDPA, help hone your skills. It also helps to teach you to shoot under some pressure. You are under the timer and you are judged for accuracy. This can get your nerves up a bit and simulate, to a point, what you might be feeling if you ever get in an incident. And, I have to admit, I enjoy shooting in competitions immensely. You may to.

Lastly, for home defense, nothing beats a shotgun. it has a bigger shot pattern, you don't have to be as precise, and it should not penetrate through the wall. Follow the firearm safety rules. The gun is always loaded. Never point the gun at anything you are unwilling to destroy. Don't put you finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire. The only real safety is betwen your ears. Learn safely, live safely.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

[KBF-Crim]

An armed lawer...isnt that overkill?...most people allready consider lawyers to be a deadly weapon...