Topic: A question for the gun owners

[KAT J'inn]

I've been into skeet and trap shooting for a while now.

Well . . .


Now I'm thinking of buying a pistol for target shooting.   Nothing competitive, just for fun.  Secondary use would be home defense but the odds of that ever being an issue are thankfully low.

Now, I know zilch about pistols.

The guys the range are telling me to buy a Colt 1911 .45.  WHile it's not fancy they say it is accurrate and will last forever. Also they tell me that since it's been around for almost 100 years that it's easy to get parts and such.  Is this correct?

I found a good used Colt 1911 for $700.00.  Is that fair?

[Sirgod]

That's pretty resonable , but given your Profession, I'd go for a .44 mag Desert eagle. <snikers>

Stephen

[Dracho]

Shooting a .45 is going to be expensive.  

For plain target practice, get yourself a nice .22 rimfire, or learn to reload your own rounds and make wadcutters (just enough oomph to cut paper =  cheap).

For home defense, I suggest a revolver.  It's simple and you very seldom need to put 14 rounds downrange in your living room.  I personally own a .357 S&W.  I like the .357 because you can shoot 38 specials in it for practice (which is a tad cheaper, but not as cheap as a .22).  Unless you are facing a guy with an AK-47, an automatic can be overly complicated in a firefight you just got out of bed to engage in.  You'll be 0-to-full adrenaline and sometimes things go wrong.  If a revolver jams, you pull the trigger again and go to the next bullet.  No fighting with the slide while bullets are whistling by your head.

Honestly though, I keep a loaded shotgun in the house for home defense.  It's a 9 shot Winchester Defender Riotgun, 12 ga with a pistol grip.  I alternate the bullets between 00 Buckshot and rifled deer slugs.  
My reasons being three-fold:  

The sound of a shotgun jacking a round in the dark will cause most burgulars to crap themselves on the way back out the door
You do not have aim it out of a dead sleep.  Point it in their general direction and you're probably going to hit something, or scare them to death
A shotgun isn't going to go through the side of the house, across the street, through my neighbors house, and kill him in his bed


Also, a .22 has wonderful ballistics for target shooting, and by its nature is a highly accurate round.  Most of the Olympic level shooters are using some variation of a .22.

[Sirgod]

SHH. Your using commen sense, and I don't want to loose the Picture in my mind of seeing Will firing a Desert eagle the first time. 

Stephen

[Dracho]

SHH. Your using commen sense, and I don't want to loose the Picture in my mind of seeing Will firing a Desert eagle the first time. 

Stephen

Would that make him a..

Are you ready?


Here it comes....

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
 Legal Eagle?

[Sirgod]

LOLOLOLOL

Poor J'inn just get's no respect. I mean Rodney Dangerfield Has more respect then J'inn.

stephen

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

For home defense, I suggest a revolver.  It's simple and you very seldom need to put 14 rounds downrange in your living room.  I personally own a .357 S&W.  I like the .357 because you can shoot 38 specials in it for practice (which is a tad cheaper, but not as cheap as a .22).  Unless you are facing a guy with an AK-47, an automatic can be overly complicated in a firefight you just got out of bed to engage in.  You'll be 0-to-full adrenaline and sometimes things go wrong.  If a revolver jams, you pull the trigger again and go to the next bullet.  No fighting with the slide while bullets are whistling by your head.

Honestly though, I keep a loaded shotgun in the house for home defense.  It's a 9 shot Winchester Defender Riotgun, 12 ga with a pistol grip.  I alternate the bullets between 00 Buckshot and rifled deer slugs. 
My reasons being three-fold: 

The sound of a shotgun jacking a round in the dark will cause most burgulars to crap themselves on the way back out the door
You do not have aim it out of a dead sleep.  Point it in their general direction and you're probably going to hit something, or scare them to death
A shotgun isn't going to go through the side of the house, across the street, through my neighbors house, and kill him in his bed

Ummm... with the exception of those slugs!?!?!?

Otherwise I agree with this comment on the shotgun thing.

Only I am packing slightly more interesting rounds.

[Dracho]

Deer slugs are big, but mostly hollow and flatten out on impact.  They'd flatten and drop (after going through the drywall & siding) before crossing the 100 yards between our houses.

[Aldaron_Nirantani]

I have a 9mm Ruger, can buy 100 rounds for $10.00 for target practice.

[Bonk]

I don't own a gun, but if i'm not mistaken aren't rifles far superior for target shooting? The short barrel of a pistol makes for a short range inaccurate shot doesn't it? Pistols are for short range personal defense(offense) aren't they?

[Dracho]

It depends (My college meterology professor's favorite phrase)..


There are actually two classes of competetion shooting.  Rifles and Pistols (Skeet for Shotguns).

Pistol competetion is further broken down into simple accuracy competetion, and more interactive "Hogan's Alley" type competetions where the shooter must move between firing positions and engage multiple targets at various angles.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Deer slugs are big, but mostly hollow and flatten out on impact.  They'd flatten and drop (after going through the drywall & siding) before crossing the 100 yards between our houses.

There ain't no '100 yards' between houses here.

If I pee out the window, I can hit their driveway.

[Bonk]

If I pee out the window, I can hit their driveway.

Somehow, I sense you've tested that... 

It depends (My college meterology professor's favorite phrase)..


There are actually two classes of competetion shooting. Rifles and Pistols (Skeet for Shotguns).

Pistol competetion is further broken down into simple accuracy competetion, and more interactive "Hogan's Alley" type competetions where the shooter must move between firing positions and engage multiple targets at various angles.

Ah, I was picturing the type I had seen in the olympics; looked like a few hundred yards to the target.

[Dracho]

Ah.. that ski & shoot event always intrigued me.  It must be very difficult to hold a steady hand after cross-country skiing.

[KAT J'inn]

Hmmm cost . . ..  good point . . .

They want like $30.00 for 100 .45 rounds.       But the .45 is so much more fun.  BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!

I'll just put two .22 rounds in at a time.  That comes to .44 which I figure is close enough.

[Dracho]

Well.. the truth of the matter is.. you don't have to limit yourself to one weapon.  Sometimes that hand canon can be.. theraputic..

[Sten]

Whats nice about the 45 is its not considered a high velocity round like the 9mm.

When the 45 hits a target it tends to mushroon and knock the crap out of the target.

Its less prone to passing through former clients and hitting the kid across the street eating ice cream.

Because the 45 is a "low velocity" round it will dish out more kinetic damage to whatever you hit than a 9mm will.

Of course the fatal shot will still be the bill you send to your clients.

[Villa64]

Try a Ruger Single Six.  It is a cheap, reliable, simple .22 revolver and you can change the cylinder out for a .22 Mag.  Not a home defense gun, but you can shoot a whole lot of bullets for real cheap on the range.  Great little snake gun if you are wandering out in the sticks.

Villa

[jualdeaux]

Okay. I'll jump in here. To rephrase your question, you are looking fo a gun for range work and home defense. Two good things to get one for. There are some things to consider.

One: There is no such thing as knockdown power. Pistol cartridges are notoriously short on power. Getting hit with one has about the same effect as getting hit with a fast baseball. Unless you hit the central nervous system, the thing that stops the perp is the loss of blood and the psychological effect of getting hit. People have been known to have their heart shot out and still have deliberate movement for 10-12 seconds. In that time they could conceivably kill everyone in you family. Other people have also been known to fall down if they just get scratched on the arm. So, shot placement is the key.

Two: Modern technology has minimized the differences between the different calibres. For example, The 230gr. Winchester Ranger T (RA45T) in .45 ACP will expand to .53 to .75 inches depending on the barrier, if any, it has to go through and will penetrate 11.6 and 16.5 inches. The 147gr. Winchester Ranger T (RA9T) in 9mm will expand to .45 tp .67 inches depending onthe barrier and penetrate 10.8 to 17 inches, again depending on the barrier. i got these numbers from the Winchester LEO ammunition catalog. There is not that much difference. So, if you are using a quality, modern hollow point design, you will be fine with either of the above two and all the usual calibres.

Three: don't worry about over penetration of the perp and worry about the rounds that totally miss the target. In most encounters very few of the bullets actually hit the target anyway. learning to shoot straight, and under some pressure, is what you need to do.

Four: The best way to learn to shoot is to get a .22lr double action/single action revolver for your first gun. Don't get anything expensive for a while yet. .22lr ammo is very inexpensive so you can shoot a lot of it and get proficient without spending a lot of cash. Find a place that has instructors and get some qualified instruction. They will cover the basics in types of firearms, safety and marksmenship. Then, find a range that will rent guns for you to try out and try some. This might cost a bit, but it could save you money in the long run. If you don't do this you might get a cool looking gun and find out later that you suck with it and should have gotten something else. Find the one that suits you the best. You'll know that by how well it sits in your hand and how well you shoot it.

Five: Cost. Ammo for different calibres cost differently. 9mm is inexpensive. You can get Winchester White Box 9mm 100 round value packs for about $11.50 at Wal-mart. .40 S&W goes for about $16 and .45ACP goes for about $18-19. If you are on a budget, and/or plan to shoot a lot, 9mm will get you more practice. Premuim defensive amo is another story. it will be expensive no matter what you choose. don't skimp on this part. Cheap ball ammo is great for the range but I don't trust my life to it. Also, don't let the cost of the gun get in the way necessarily. There are good guns for not much $. Lots of people use Star BMs and those you can get for about $150. You can also spend over $1000 for a Kimber. So, choose your budget and look around. You can find something to fit your needs.

All the above is general and well known advice.

For some personal advice, you said that you don't want to get competitive or anything. That is fine but I like the way those competitions, such as IDPA, help hone your skills. It also helps to teach you to shoot under some pressure. You are under the timer and you are judged for accuracy. This can get your nerves up a bit and simulate, to a point, what you might be feeling if you ever get in an incident. And, I have to admit, I enjoy shooting in competitions immensely. You may to.

Lastly, for home defense, nothing beats a shotgun. it has a bigger shot pattern, you don't have to be as precise, and it should not penetrate through the wall. Follow the firearm safety rules. The gun is always loaded. Never point the gun at anything you are unwilling to destroy. Don't put you finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire. The only real safety is betwen your ears. Learn safely, live safely.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

[KBF-Crim]

An armed lawer...isnt that overkill?...most people allready consider lawyers to be a deadly weapon...

[Javora]

Jualdeaux pretty much nailed it on the head.  The only thing I would add is that if you do go with a 1911 style handgun Kimber makes a .22 adapter for their handguns.  I don't know how well they hold up so I would ask around before buying but if they do work it would be better than getting a gun for each cal.  From my experience this would also help since you wouldn't have to learn the feel of two different guns.  Hope this helps.

[Mackie]

Beretta 92fs

ah luvs ma guhns...

I know it propably aint the best out there but since I like it maybe you oughta try it too 

[Corbomite]

.357 snub nose because, as mentioned, you can fire .38's out of it. I don't know about where you live, but around here they don't like us using .357's at the range because they are god awful loud. I only get to use the .357's (for practice anyway  ) out in the wilderness when I go camping. Its a simple, acurate gun with decent power and not too much kick. At least I think so. The shorter barrel makes it easy to wield.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

For the inexperienced at home defense.. I recommend this:

Smith & Wesson 640 5 shot Hammerless .357

All the aforementioned reasons to use a revolver PLUS no hammer to catch on anything.

[Dracho]

Also, through the use of speed loaders, you can reload a revolver nearly as quickly as an automatic.  Basically, you pop the cylinder, let the spent casings fall out, put this device into the cylinder, twist the knob to release the rounds, and close the cylinder.  Only takes a couple of seconds if you practice.

[KAT J'inn]

Thanks guys.

Home defense really isn't much of a concern.  And odds are I'd grab the shotgun first anyways.

For fun on the range . . .  I've talked to other people also.   Now I'm thinking of getting a .22 pistol  (MUCH cheaper ammo) and getting used to a pistol and then getting a nice Colt 1911 with some history to it in a year or so.  Maybe a 9mm later on.  Not sure.

[stoneyface]

a .22 is a good choice. i personnaly have a S&W .22 automatic and i love it for the range. ammo is cheap (500 rounds for less than $20) and accurate as hell! i have a clip of hollow points as a "just-in-case" clip for home defense. while it ain't much, i can put a round neatly between the eyes very easily. i also figure that it looks like a handgun and most home-invaders aren't going to take the time to look at the caliber while i am shootin' at their ass!

hope this helps

oh one other thing, if it is for the range and you decide on a .22, get as long a barrel as you can for more accuracy.

[Dracho]

Good point Stoney.  And there is a rule-of-thumb for handguns:

They look 4 calibers larger from the front than from the back end.   

[KAT J'inn]

Well now my brain hurts.    Just came back from the gun store. . . . .

They had a used .22 S&W for . . . .   $750.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Ugh.

So the sales guy showed me a Ruger .22 semi-auto pistol.  New for $375.00.   Looks perfect for a starter target gun to me and the bullets work for my .22 rifle also.  I think I'll get it but I'm going to think about it for a few more days.

[jualdeaux]

yeah, the Ruger Mark IIs and Mark IIIs are great guns fromwhat I understand and will last forever. One thing I would suggest is to look at a couple intrnet auction sites for general pricing on whatever gun you are thinking of getting. Two that are good are

http://www.gunbroker.com/

and

http://www.auctionarms.com/

Oh, and a third.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/

The Gun Broker site is pretty much just like ebay so it is really easy to navigate. Look for autions that have bids and see what people are paying for whatever gun you are looking for. That should help get a price range so when you go kicking tires at your local store you will have a good idea if they are asking what they should.

[J. Carney]

Wow... Jualdeux has just about said it all, I guess.

As a latecomer in the discussion I'll only add a couple of cents worth, J'inn:"

The MkII is as fine a .22 pistol as you'll ever find. A gun don't have to be expensive to be a fine weapon. One of my best (and another good all-arounder, if you feel the need for one) is a Rossi .357 Mag with a 4" barrell.

A .357 Mag is another really great starter gun... for a bigger fellow. It can fire .38 Special ammunition (which is a lot cheaper- nearly on par with 9mm) and has FAR less felt recoil than the .357 Mag rounds; the versitility to fit into both the 'shoot it all day long gun' and the 'one shot, one kill' gun niches make it a good purchase for a grown man looking for a 'do it all' gun.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=37982078

This little jewel usually comes in at $350 new, and this one on gunbroker.com has a no reserve auction running on it with no current bids. Keep an eye on it if you're interested to get an idea of where the prices are going.

[Mackie]

damnit, must admit that with all of you speaking of guns makes me quite a bit jealous since i live in a country where EVERY automatic weapons is outlawed....
(although it does have a point, if we had guns we would be killing each other at an ever faster rate than we are now. Since we have no war to fight.)

[Sirgod]

damnit, must admit that with all of you speaking of guns makes me quite a bit jealous since i live in a country where EVERY automatic weapons is outlawed....
(although it does have a point, if we had guns we would be killing each other at an ever faster rate than we are now. Since we have no war to fight.)

Hey everyone needs a Day Job. 

seriously, I love shooting, and Do so on a regular basis. I think my Biggest Thrill though was my last Birthday. Frey came down To assist in the Celebrations, and StormBringer and I where The first to Intoduce him to Shooting. I can definatly understand J'inn's Joy of Skeet shooting, as Years ago, I used to be able to Plink an asprin out of the air with an open sighted .22. Mind you that was years ago, But Shooting and Oklahahoma go hand in hand.

You know, More of you guys need to come down some time, and Enjoy The outback here. TracyG and Alien are esp. Invited. 

stephen

[Mackie]

Well yes and no, the rites of hunt are still good enough of a reason to kill innocent animals. good food
(yes i do admit that I illegally own automatic weapons, this is a "multicultural" town  so i believe that i have a fairly good reason. We need to defend ourselves.)

[The Postman]

Well now my brain hurts.    Just came back from the gun store. . . . .

They had a used .22 S&W for . . . .   $750.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Ugh.

So the sales guy showed me a Ruger .22 semi-auto pistol.  New for $375.00.   Looks perfect for a starter target gun to me and the bullets work for my .22 rifle also.  I think I'll get it but I'm going to think about it for a few more days.

Is that 22 S&W a Performance Center gun? If so it is more than worth it. As for the 1911, if it is a GI gun of some sort, that also is an excellent price and should not be missed if possible.

[The Postman]

Well yes and no, the rites of hunt are still good enough of a reason to kill innocent animals. good food
(yes i do admit that I illegally own automatic weapons, this is a "multicultural" town  so i believe that i have a fairly good reason. We need to defend ourselves.)

Mackie, do you mean full auto or semi?

[The Postman]

Here is a fine S&W Performance Center 22 that was built on an old  square butt stainless (new) 617 frame. It has a 6'  barrel left over from the German Olympic team order and a 10 shot cylinder. This was custom built for my wife by the Performance Center and is a one of a kind.  I would highly reccomend this gun for any kind of recreational target shooting.

[stoneyface]

Here is a fine S&W Performance Center 22 that was built on an old  square butt stainless (new) 617 frame. It has a 6'  barrel left over from the German Olympic team order and a 10 shot cylinder. This was custom built for my wife by the Performance Center and is a one of a kind.  I would highly reccomend this gun for any kind of recreational target shooting.

that is one sweet piece!!!

[E_Look]

Hey J'inn-

I remember a lawyer that packed heat- did you ever see the black and white film with Bogart as "The DA"?  He popped the perp at the end... very coolly and with style, I might add.  Bogie.  What a great actor.  (Are you as good in court?    )

[S'Raek]

Good discussion going on here.  When I get back to the States I'm going to be in the market for a carry gun, lots of things to keep in mind here.  I'm sure Jualdeau will keep trying to steer me towards those 9mm Glocks he is so fond of.  lol 

[Mackie]

Well yes and no, the rites of hunt are still good enough of a reason to kill innocent animals. good food
(yes i do admit that I illegally own automatic weapons, this is a "multicultural" town  so i believe that i have a fairly good reason. We need to defend ourselves.)

Mackie, do you mean full auto or semi?

I believe that goes for both :/

[Javora]

Good discussion going on here.  When I get back to the States I'm going to be in the market for a carry gun, lots of things to keep in mind here.  I'm sure Jualdeau will keep trying to steer me towards those 9mm Glocks he is so fond of.  lol 

Eewww, yuck.

 

[jualdeaux]

Hey now. I"m not trying to steer you toward a 9mm Glock. I'm just saying that you should get a good multi-prupose gun instead of somehting just for concealed carry. Then with that gun you can go to training classes, range work, comps and still carry it if you want. If you get too small a gun, one made just for CCW, first off then it won't really be overly good for the rest of the stuff. Besides, you already haave the SP-101 for deep concealment. No need for another one right at first.

And I never said to go with glock, just something around the same size as the Glock 19/23. I have also mentioned the Sig 229 SAS as a good gun to look at, which is .40S&W only by the way.

 

Oh, and

 

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Hey now. I"m not trying to steer you toward a 9mm Glock. I'm just saying that you should get a good multi-prupose gun instead of somehting just for concealed carry. Then with that gun you can go to training classes, range work, comps and still carry it if you want. If you get too small a gun, one made just for CCW, first off then it won't really be overly good for the rest of the stuff. Besides, you already haave the SP-101 for deep concealment. No need for another one right at first.

And I never said to go with glock, just something around the same size as the Glock 19/23. I have also mentioned the Sig 229 SAS as a good gun to look at, which is .40S&W only by the way.

 

Oh, and

 

Another Glock fan, eh?


Here is a pic of my C&C piece...



Glock 36.

Oh, and for those who know about my 'modern' kilt wearing thing... I found a place that makes a kilt with  a C&C pocket. 

[Dracho]

Ahh... CCW classes... always take an automatic, even if you have to rent one.  If you take a revolver to the class, you can only carry a revolver (at least here in Oklahoma).  If you take an automatic, you can then carry either flavor.

[KAT J'inn]

Is that 22 S&W a Performance Center gun? If so it is more than worth it. As for the 1911, if it is a GI gun of some sort, that also is an excellent price and should not be missed if possible.

1)   I dunno if the S&W was that type.   But it looked great and the gun shop owner started talking about stuff I was clueless about.   He may have said Performance whatever.   I dunno.  He did say it was the top of the line as far as target range .22s go.

2)  No clue on the history of the used 1911.  I doubt it was a wartime piece.    Would be cool to get a Korean War gun like the one my Dad and perhaps my Mom would have carried.   Both were Vets.

[Dracho]

Singer Sewing Machines retooled during the war and produced M1911 pistols.  If you can find one today, they are easily worth $25,000 because they Stamped Singer on them instead of Colt.

[jualdeaux]

I have also coloured in the stampings on my slide in silver on my 35 and in red, white and blue on my 26. Today, I installed a chrome plated Extended Slide Release, slide lock and chrome pins for the two just above the trigger guard on the 35. Gun got BLING! LOL I don't have pics yet though.

FYI If you ever take the pins out, make sure to put in the upper, smaller one before you insert the slide catch. Then insert the lower, larger pin. I tried it the other way and didn't realize that the spring on the slide catch got in the way of the second pin. It took me quite a while to notice that and correct the problem.

[stoneyface]

i finally found a pic of my S&W .22cal pistol

smith and wesson m22a



i love this damn thing! plus it doesn't look like a typical .22. it has that larger caliber "mean" look to it...

[S'Raek]

Hey now. I"m not trying to steer you toward a 9mm Glock. I'm just saying that you should get a good multi-prupose gun instead of something just for concealed carry. Then with that gun you can go to training classes, range work, comps and still carry it if you want. If you get too small a gun, one made just for CCW, first off then it won't really be overly good for the rest of the stuff. Besides, you already have the SP-101 for deep concealment. No need for another one right at first.

And I never said to go with glock, just something around the same size as the Glock 19/23. I have also mentioned the Sig 229 SAS as a good gun to look at, which is .40S&W only by the way.

 

Oh, and

 

First of all  back at you.

Second of all, I am allowed to harass you as I desire at any time even in public. 

Thirdly, any time you actually make sense and have a better idea than I do (even if you actually have the ability to see and handle the guns we discuss and I don't) I can make fun of the idea and then immediately claim it as genius of my own!  HA! 

It's in the rules, look it up. 

Hmmmm....it's going to be a fun couple months after I get home!  Yea baby!!!  Get the see the wife and kids again, some deer hunting, new house and a new toy to play with.  I mean, can life be any better than that?  I don't think so.

[KAT J'inn]

Welp . . .   I bought one.    I got a Ruger mkIII  (a nice .22 semi-automatic pistol made for target shooting).   Bought it new for $334.00 which seemed good.

I get to pick it up in about 5 days.

Thanks for the tips.

500 bullets for about $13.00.   WOO HOOO!!

[Tus-XC]

*starts thinking to himself*... 21 in May... hmmmmm....

[Aldaron_Nirantani]

Welp . . .   I bought one.    I got a Ruger mkIII  (a nice .22 semi-automatic pistol made for target shooting).   Bought it new for $334.00 which seemed good.

I get to pick it up in about 5 days.

Thanks for the tips.

500 bullets for about $13.00.   WOO HOOO!!

Think I paid around that for my 9mm.

[S'Raek]

J'inn please give us a range report when you get the chance.  I've considered buying a Ruger for target shooting for my kids.  I do have a .22 pistol but it isn't of the quality of the Ruger. 

Now, I do have other things on my list of guns to buy so the Ruger is a ways down. But hey, it never hurts to check these things out. 

[jualdeaux]

Welp . . . I bought one. I got a Ruger mkIII (a nice .22 semi-automatic pistol made for target shooting). Bought it new for $334.00 which seemed good.

I get to pick it up in about 5 days.

Thanks for the tips.

500 bullets for about $13.00. WOO HOOO!!

Just out of curiosity, which model was it? The Stainless Hunter, the 45/22 or the other one. I can't remember the name of that one.

[Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385]

Well yes and no, the rites of hunt are still good enough of a reason to kill innocent animals. good food
(yes i do admit that I illegally own automatic weapons, this is a "multicultural" town  so i believe that i have a fairly good reason. We need to defend ourselves.)

Mackie, do you mean full auto or semi?

I believe that goes for both :/

Actually Mackie, Semi-auto is a "one pull, one shot" set up. Full-auto is a "one pull, you can empty the clip" set up. I need to get a "full-auto" 10 guage shotgun. No need to aim, just pull the trigger and kill everything in site. Can also be used for cutting down trees or Amway salesmen. 

[KAT J'inn]

I got a plain vanilla "blued" MkIII.    I don't know if there is any other designation.   It's not the stainless one, I saw that. Too flashy.   And it's not a 22/45.

As for a range report . . . since I have never fired a pistol on a range in my life I don't have a point of reference upon which to base any statements.  However, I'll report away anyways.

[Mackie]

Well yes and no, the rites of hunt are still good enough of a reason to kill innocent animals. good food
(yes i do admit that I illegally own automatic weapons, this is a "multicultural" town  so i believe that i have a fairly good reason. We need to defend ourselves.)

Mackie, do you mean full auto or semi?

I believe that goes for both :/

I know ;p

Actually Mackie, Semi-auto is a "one pull, one shot" set up. Full-auto is a "one pull, you can empty the clip" set up. I need to get a "full-auto" 10 guage shotgun. No need to aim, just pull the trigger and kill everything in site. Can also be used for cutting down trees or Amway salesmen. 

[stoneyface]

if you go to a gun range. ask for help sighting in your new toy. i don't think i've seen a gun yet that shot straight right outta the box. may i suggest a in-barrel sighter (basically a tube shaped laser designator that fits in the barrel to let you point on-target and fix the site to the correct sighting pattern.)? they really aren't that expensive and if you plan on getting more firepower they pay for themselves as they save considerable time sighting in your piece/

stoneyface

[Villa64]

For my sight adjustments, I use a consistent grip and trigger pull, and a small screwdriver.

[Dracho]

I ignore the sights and point shoot.  I won't hit a quarter, but I can put 15 rounds in a pie plate faster than you can say mein leiben.

[KAT J'inn]

Well . . . I passed the test to use the ranges at the club and went out for the first time over the weekend.

Was fun!

I learned I need to bring some binoculars though because I didn't want to stop firing on the line while I went down to look at my shots.

So . . . I have no idea how well I did.   

I was shooting from 25 yards and I know I was smacking the target but I don't know if I got the bullseye.

The gun is very easy to use.  Light recoil. . .  Well fun basically.

Since I have no clue what I am doing (oh yeah, shooting gun . ..  clueless . . . there's a good combo) I really can't provide an analysis.

All I know is I had fun and plan to get out there this weekend.

[Dracho]

Get yourself one of these for $25.  You'll never wonder again if you hit the target (Also available in larger caliber toughness).

http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1029431&cp=2057781.712508.715301&parentPage=category



The Do-All Traps Sharpshooter Auto Reset .22 target is specifically designed for soft nosed .22 caliber pistol and rifle shooters. This unit has a hands free resetting system. As the bullet strikes each target, the force spins the target to a catch bar above. To reset the system, simply shoot the reset target or each individual target and begin another round of practice or competition.
 

[queysther]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

For target shooting, my personal favorite is the SIG 210. I got myself one (a former army sidearm, forged in 1953); it's wonderfully accurate and a real pleasure to shoot (no wonder these pistols are called the "rolls-royce of 9mm weapons"). I had some nice wood grips added, the gun fits my hand very well and I usually get very good marks on a 50m range with it. Although this gun is single-action only and much older than the current service model (the 220 which I have as my personal service sidearm), I much prefer it over the more recent model for match shooting (and this even though the 220 is already considered a very accurate weapon).

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

Now, for personal defense. Luckily, not such a big issue here, as yet. Still, our laws only permit the sale and posession of FMJ rounds (including the cops, although there is considerable debate about this). For this reason, for personal defense, I guess a .45 might not be such a bad choice, since even a 45 FMJ supposedly has pretty good stopping power? Or should I go for a 40S&W?

[Sirgod]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

For target shooting, my personal favorite is the SIG 210. I got myself one (a former army sidearm, forged in 1953); it's wonderfully accurate and a real pleasure to shoot (no wonder these pistols are called the "rolls-royce of 9mm weapons"). I had some nice wood grips added, the gun fits my hand very well and I usually get very good marks on a 50m range with it. Although this gun is single-action only and much older than the current service model (the 220 which I have as my personal service sidearm), I much prefer it over the more recent model for match shooting (and this even though the 220 is already considered a very accurate weapon).

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

Now, for personal defense. Luckily, not such a big issue here, as yet. Still, our laws only permit the sale and posession of FMJ rounds (including the cops, although there is considerable debate about this). For this reason, for personal defense, I guess a .45 might not be such a bad choice, since even a 45 FMJ supposedly has pretty good stopping power? Or should I go for a 40S&W?

Feel Free to jump in anywhere queysther. We have Gun Nuts of all kinds here.

As for the Desert Eagle, I personaly loved that pistol, But It was costly to fire, and as for Practiciality, It didn't serve me well. Don't get me wrong, I love that pistol though, I'll pick one up again later on down the road.

a .45 isn't a bad choice at all. I guess It all depends on what kind of shooter you are. Myself, I'm a pretty good shot, so I can go abit heavier then others, for stopping power, of course, But others Perfer the lighter many round approach. Niether is wrong, It's completly up to you.

Stephen

[The Postman]

Here is a good carry gun for those that aren't timid. I am hoping I get one for Christmas. 

500 Smith & Wesson with a 4" barrel with 2 compensators for different kinds of bullets, Has over 2000 ft/lbs of energy with the 4" barrel.

[jualdeaux]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

For target shooting, my personal favorite is the SIG 210. I got myself one (a former army sidearm, forged in 1953); it's wonderfully accurate and a real pleasure to shoot (no wonder these pistols are called the "rolls-royce of 9mm weapons"). I had some nice wood grips added, the gun fits my hand very well and I usually get very good marks on a 50m range with it. Although this gun is single-action only and much older than the current service model (the 220 which I have as my personal service sidearm), I much prefer it over the more recent model for match shooting (and this even though the 220 is already considered a very accurate weapon).

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

Now, for personal defense. Luckily, not such a big issue here, as yet. Still, our laws only permit the sale and posession of FMJ rounds (including the cops, although there is considerable debate about this). For this reason, for personal defense, I guess a .45 might not be such a bad choice, since even a 45 FMJ supposedly has pretty good stopping power? Or should I go for a 40S&W?

Since you are only allowed to have FMJ ammo, I would have to recommend the bigger the better approach. To that end I would advise you getting a high-cap .45ACP such as a Glock 21 or an HK USP. Both have a good enough capacity, should be easy enough to acquire over there and handle the recoil of the .45ACP round very easily.

[jualdeaux]

Here is a good carry gun for those that aren't timid. I am hoping I get one for Christmas. 

500 Smith & Wesson with a 4" barrel with 2 compensators for different kinds of bullets, Has over 2000 ft/lbs of energy with the 4" barrel.

You should look into the .460S&W Magnum. It is a higher velocity, flatter shooting round that is even better thanthe .500. At least that is what I've been reading.

[The Postman]

Here is a good carry gun for those that aren't timid. I am hoping I get one for Christmas. 

500 Smith & Wesson with a 4" barrel with 2 compensators for different kinds of bullets, Has over 2000 ft/lbs of energy with the 4" barrel.

You should look into the .460S&W Magnum. It is a higher velocity, flatter shooting round that is even better thanthe .500. At least that is what I've been reading.

Yes, but the 460 XVR does not come in a 4" barrel (yet) and therefore makes a lousy carry gun.

[jualdeaux]

Like either of those are carry guns. Unless you are hiking out in the wilderness of course. Having a 4" barrel on the .500 doesn't mean it is in any way a smaller gun. But, hey. If you want to try and carry that monster, be my guest.

[J. Carney]

I guess that makes me one of the few europeans here who can actually have contribute to this discussion, since I am fortunate enough to live in the one european country that still has (fairly) liberal gun laws (Switzerland).

You gotta love a country that lets the Militiaman take his service rifle home to practice with, and even allots him a stipend for ammunition. Oh how I wish that our lawmakers were so wise as to keep the militia as well equipped and trained. I only get to work out with my M249 SAW twice a year.

For pure pleasure shooting, I love the Desert Eagle 44mag. I 'd like to try out a .50AE, but they are very hard to come by over here, and the ammo is rare and darn expensive. Plus, I'm not sure I can even hold a mighty 50, although I have little problem with the 44.

As Desert Eagles go, I found the .50 AE far more fun to shoot than the .44 Mag- though I must say that i prefer the .45 Colt 1911A1 to either of the Desert Eagles. The .50 AE didn't seem to jam up quite so bad as the .44 MAg, and to mea the recoil wasn't as wild as the .44 Mag.

However, I stick to the opinion that the .44 Mag SHOULD NEVER be used in a semi-auto or automatic pistol... it's just too hot loaded.

[queysther]

You gotta love a country that lets the Militiaman take his service rifle home to practice with, and even allots him a stipend for ammunition. Oh how I wish that our lawmakers were so wise as to keep the militia as well equipped and trained. I only get to work out with my M249 SAW twice a year.

Yep, mine is still standing in the wardrobe.
An SG550, 5.6mm, full-auto capable. Though it isn't really my service rifle any longer; as an officer your service weapon is a pistol, and the rifle becomes a "borrowed weapon"... I haven't used it in ages, since I prefer pistol shooting, or, if I take to rifles, I prefer the K31 7.5mm bolt-action, wonderfully acurate and a hard kick...

As Desert Eagles go, I found the .50 AE far more fun to shoot than the .44 Mag- though I must say that i prefer the .45 Colt 1911A1 to either of the Desert Eagles. The .50 AE didn't seem to jam up quite so bad as the .44 MAg, and to mea the recoil wasn't as wild as the .44 Mag.

Interesting, I always thought the 50AE had a heavier recoil. Supposedly, it's 60% more powerful than the 44.

[J. Carney]

You gotta love a country that lets the Militiaman take his service rifle home to practice with, and even allots him a stipend for ammunition. Oh how I wish that our lawmakers were so wise as to keep the militia as well equipped and trained. I only get to work out with my M249 SAW twice a year.

Yep, mine is still standing in the wardrobe.
An SG550, 5.6mm, full-auto capable. Though it isn't really my service rifle any longer; as an officer your service weapon is a pistol, and the rifle becomes a "borrowed weapon"... I haven't used it in ages, since I prefer pistol shooting, or, if I take to rifles, I prefer the K31 7.5mm bolt-action, wonderfully acurate and a hard kick...

LOL, my primary weapon is the M2 Browning .50 caliber machine gun, or 'Maw Duce' as we lovingly have called her for over 80 years now. My secondary weapon, the one that I use dismounted is the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, a belt-fed .223 (5.56 NATO) that is really nice simply for the amount of lead it can put downrange... over 800 rounds per minute. A real joy to handle, and it can even be reliably and accurately sholder-fired if you keep yourself to 2-3 round bursts. As a military Police soldier, I also carry a pistol constantly, but I dispise the M9 Baretta to the point of calling it utterly useless. I can't wait till we replace it with another .45 ACP weapon as we are planning to do in the next few years.

As Desert Eagles go, I found the .50 AE far more fun to shoot than the .44 Mag- though I must say that i prefer the .45 Colt 1911A1 to either of the Desert Eagles. The .50 AE didn't seem to jam up quite so bad as the .44 MAg, and to me the recoil wasn't as wild as the .44 Mag.

Interesting, I always thought the 50AE had a heavier recoil. Supposedly, it's 60% more powerful than the 44.

To me it was like comparing the recoil of a .45 ACP to a .357 Magnum... it's a different FEEL to it. The .45 ACP is like a friend pushing your hand back. The .357 Magnum is like that same friend hitting your hand with a roundhouse kick. The .50 AE does have a punishing recoil for a one-handed weapon, but the .44 Mag seemed to be sharper and more unplesant.

I only fired the .50 AE once; the .44 Magnum Desert Eagle I fired on almost a dozen differen hand-numbing occasions.

[Sirgod]

Sorry to jump in there, But to this Day, I still can't stand the SAW. I know It's gotten better over the years, But being raised on the old m-60, I just can't get over that hurdle. I just don't want a weapon where an ant farts, and It blows the trajectory away.

God keep you safe Carney, as I have serious doubts about the SAW.

Stephen

[J. Carney]

Sorry to jump in there, But to this Day, I still can't stand the SAW. I know It's gotten better over the years, But being raised on the old m-60, I just can't get over that hurdle. I just don't want a weapon where an ant farts, and It blows the trajectory away.

God keep you safe Carney, as I have serious doubts about the SAW.

Stephen

They hold up good at close range (under 100m).

You and me and everyone else that have had to use a weapon like thatincombat know that most of the time, you are less than 100m and more likely less than 50m from your targets.

At 50m, I can put 190 rounds out of 200 into a sheet of notebook paper- which is about the size of a man's vital areas- in about 45 seconds. Give me two minutes, and I can devide my fire between 5 different targets, hitting with 180 out of 200 rounds.


The SAW just wasn't meant for the 'reach out and touch someone' effect that the M-60 has. The M-60's sucessor, the M240 is the ONLY choice for a non-mounted unit that's got more than 100m of open ground to cover in front of their position. It's not just because of the 5.56mm round's tendency to be blown off course either; a 5.56mm just doesn't have the lethality of the 7.62mm at that range.


Luckily for us, the military is going back to the 'bigger is better' argument. We are now testing a .45 ACP pistol and- to a lesser extent- a 7.62mm rifle to be introduced into the TO&E.

[OlBuzzard]

SHH. Your using commen sense, and I don't want to loose the Picture in my mind of seeing Will firing a Desert eagle the first time. 

Stephen

sorry I missed this ...

1.  A hand gun just for target practice ..  well balanced, what fits your hand the best  ( the .22 or .22LR is okie if ya get one that is well assembled. Other wise frankly it wouldn't be worth the effort).  That seems to be what you decided ... good choice.

2.  ANY hand gun is not that good for home defense.  This is primary due to the fact that IF it is that serious ...  you want something that will do the job (so to speak).  I know ...   this does not set too well with me in one sense of the word.  Frankly,  (And I'm sure some will find this hard to believe comming from me) ...  if you are going to have to shoot someone ..  then you are defending your life ... and the life of your loved one (hmmm not sure how many would fall into this category for J'inn)  and that means you may be forced to take another life.  That said ...  with a hand gun  7to 9 mm .. or a 357 ...  what ever ..  that can go through a wall like it was paper.

Your best bet is a  VERY short barrelled 12 ga shot gun (but still legal) with 00 buck or at the very least #4 high brass (max load)

I really dont know if ya want to spend a lot of time debating this issue  (and that is really not my intent).

Oh ...

BTW...

Stephen  :

the Desert Eagle 357 OR the 44 mag  (one of the finest weapons straight out of the box ever made) many $$$

the look on J'inn face touching off the first round :  Priceless

 

[J. Carney]

That said ...  with a hand gun  7to 9 mm .. or a 357 ...  what ever ..  that can go through a wall like it was paper.

I won't debate the merits of keeping a shotgun for home defense. Nothing beats a good old fashioned scattergun loaded with #4's for close work... well, except maybe a flamethrower. And of course, shotguns don't have to be aimed when you are half-asleep at 0300 and not wearing your glasses.

I will, however, point any and all handgun owners to these guys:
http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1977
My personal Home defense loads are .40 caliber Glaser Silvers. Yeah, I know... $22 for 6 rounds is INSANELY expensive, but I live in a trailer in a 300 lot trailer park, and even my beloved Winchester Rangers are too damn over-penetrating for that terrain.

[OlBuzzard]

That said ...  with a hand gun  7to 9 mm .. or a 357 ...  what ever ..  that can go through a wall like it was paper.

I won't debate the merits of keeping a shotgun for home defense. Nothing beats a good old fashioned scattergun loaded with #4's for close work... well, except maybe a flamethrower. And of course, shotguns don't have to be aimed when you are half-asleep at 0300 and not wearing your glasses.

I will, however, point any and all handgun owners to these guys:
http://mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1977
My personal Home defense loads are .40 caliber Glaser Silvers. Yeah, I know... $22 for 6 rounds is INSANELY expensive, but I live in a trailer in a 300 lot trailer park, and even my beloved Winchester Rangers are too damn over-penetrating for that terrain.

hmmmm

that would work !

[Sirgod]

LOL, I gotta give Creds to Buzz, J'inn ever firing such a monster would be a blast...

Yeah your Right on the SAW part J. It's just one of those Weapons that I just don't like. Hell, I'm not that great a shot anymore myself, But I would not want that piece of crap as a weapon at all.

Stephen

[OlBuzzard]

Yeah your Right on the SAW part J. It's just one of those Weapons that I just don't like. Hell, I'm not that great a shot anymore myself, But I would not want that piece of crap as a weapon at all.

Stephen

I dunno that much about the SAW ....   never saw one ( no pun intended..  )  But My youngest son Jonathan took one that needed to be "sighted in ..."

1st round "out side the paint"
2nd round" inside"
3rd, 4th and 5th ...  bulls eye.

and yes ...

he shoots expert.  Deadly with a std issue weapon carried by a Marine.