Topic: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions  (Read 2751 times)

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Offline Stormbringer

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Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/cosmology-05za.html

Seattle WA (SPX) Sep 29, 2005
Physicists who work with a concept called string theory envision our universe as an eerie place with at least nine spatial dimensions, six of them hidden from us, perhaps curled up in some way so they are undetectable. The big question is why we experience the universe in only three spatial dimensions instead of four, or six, or nine.
Two theoretical researchers from the University of Washington and Harvard University think they might have found the answer. They believe the way our universe started and then diluted as it expanded – what they call the relaxation principle – favored formation of three- and seven-dimensional realities. The one we happen to experience has three dimensions.

"That's what comes out when you do the math," said Andreas Karch, a University of Washington assistant professor of physics and lead author of a new paper that details the theory.

Karch and his collaborator, Lisa Randall, a physics professor at Harvard, set out to model how the universe was arranged right after it began in the big bang, and then watch how the cosmos evolved as it expanded and diluted. The only assumptions were that it started with a generally smooth configuration, with numerous structures – called membranes, or "branes" – that existed in various spatial dimensions from one to nine, all of them large and none curled up.

The researchers allowed the cosmos to evolve naturally, without making any additional assumptions. They found that as the branes diluted, the ones that survived displayed three dimensions or seven dimensions. In our universe, everything we see and experience is stuck to one of those branes, and for it to result in a three-dimensional universe the brane must be three-dimensional.

Other realities, either three- or seven-dimensional, could be hidden from our perception in the universe, Karch said.

"There are regions that feel 3D. There are regions that feel 5D. There are regions that feel 9D. These extra dimensions are infinitely large. We just happen to be in a place that feels 3D to us," he said.

In our world, forces such as electromagnetism only recognize three dimensions and behave according to our laws of physics, their strength diminishing with distance. Gravity, however, cuts across all dimensions, even those not recognized in our world, Karch and Randall say. But they theorize that the force of gravity is localized and, with seven branes, gravity would diminish far more quickly with distance than it does in our three-dimensional world.

"We know there are people in our three-brane existence. In this case we will assume there are people somewhere nearby in a seven-brane existence. The people in the three-brane would have a far more interesting world, with more complex structures," Karch said. With gravity diminishing rapidly with distance, a seven-dimensional existence would not have planets with stable orbits around their sun, Karch said.

"I am not precisely sure what a universe with such a short-range gravity would look like, mostly because it is always difficult to imagine how life would develop under completely different circumstances," he said. "But in any case, planetary systems as we know them wouldn't form. The possibility of stable orbits is what makes the three-dimensional world more interesting."

Karch and Randall detail their work in the October edition of Physical Review Letters, published by the American Physical Society. The research was supported by grants from the U.S. Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation.

Karch said they hope the work will spark extensive scientific exploration of many other questions involving string theory, extra dimensions and the evolution of the cosmos.



Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2005, 03:43:06 am »
OK if i read this right these knuckleheads are saying our universe is three dimensional. if so what happens to Einstein's 4 dimensional geometric model of Gravity? what of the the logical extension of that that each of the four forces in the universe require additional dimensions to explain force interactions a geometric model?

Offline E_Look

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2005, 12:46:05 pm »
Note they said "string theory".  How does one go about PROVING any of it?  They tweaked a mathematical model and out popped some results from a computer program.  It'll make a fine basis for some future sci-fi, but physics?  On physics, it'd be PURELY speculative!

Offline Dracho

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2005, 01:01:31 pm »
Personally, I think they've been playing with a Cray and a suped-up copy of Sim Earth.   8)
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz


Offline prometheus

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2005, 02:44:20 pm »
Note they said "string theory".  How does one go about PROVING any of it?  They tweaked a mathematical model and out popped some results from a computer program.  It'll make a fine basis for some future sci-fi, but physics?  On physics, it'd be PURELY speculative!

Very much so...   


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Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2005, 04:32:25 pm »
Guys; I don't know if string theory is correct or not but there are intriguing observations of a vast string of gravity lensing that observers are saying cannot be explained by any coincidence or conventional stellar objects. they are saying it is exactly what is predicted if a cosmic string were between the objects and the observer. because of the huge length of the lensing series and other characteristics a string is the most probable culprit.

Offline prometheus

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2005, 04:47:58 pm »
Quote
"Anthropic Cosmological Principle"

   Yiccchhhh!!!!    You'd be as well going the whole hog and going to church!

On the other hand, Martin Rees seems to be with you on that one, although he always seems to shy away from directly admitting it... 


To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the Universe!

Offline E_Look

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2005, 09:34:03 pm »
Sounds like Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Worlds...

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2005, 09:44:43 pm »
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg18725104.200

Article Preview
Is it a cosmic string or are we seeing double?
01 August 2005
Marcus Chown
Magazine issue 2510
The case for the existence of cosmic strings has just been boosted - the threads of energy could be the first sign of extra dimensions in the universe
THE case for the existence of cosmic strings has just been boosted. If confirmed, these one-dimensional threads of energy that can span millions of light years could be the first sign of extra dimensions in the universe.

Cosmic strings are predicted by string theory. They are gigantic counterparts of the strings that are thought to give rise to the fundamental particles of matter. String theory suggests that our universe may be a three-dimensional island, or "brane", and that the big bang was the result of a collision between our universe and another 3D brane. The collision would have given rise to one-dimensional cosmic strings, and finding such a string would strengthen the theory and support the idea that extra dimensions exist.

The immense energy of a cosmic string would warp the space-time around it. If one existed somewhere between us and a distant galaxy, say, the warped space-time would create ...

The complete article is 652 words long.

Offline prometheus

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2005, 05:03:52 am »
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg18725104.200

Article Preview
Is it a cosmic string or are we seeing double?
01 August 2005
Marcus Chown
Magazine issue 2510
The case for the existence of cosmic strings has just been boosted - the threads of energy could be the first sign of extra dimensions in the universe
THE case for the existence of cosmic strings has just been boosted. If confirmed, these one-dimensional threads of energy that can span millions of light years could be the first sign of extra dimensions in the universe.

Cosmic strings are predicted by string theory. They are gigantic counterparts of the strings that are thought to give rise to the fundamental particles of matter. String theory suggests that our universe may be a three-dimensional island, or "brane", and that the big bang was the result of a collision between our universe and another 3D brane. The collision would have given rise to one-dimensional cosmic strings, and finding such a string would strengthen the theory and support the idea that extra dimensions exist.

The immense energy of a cosmic string would warp the space-time around it. If one existed somewhere between us and a distant galaxy, say, the warped space-time would create ...

The complete article is 652 words long.



Just as long as none of them are near us and heavily blue shifted  :o


To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the Universe!

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2005, 05:13:30 am »
Indeed!  :o

Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2005, 07:07:35 pm »
create what???  damn greedy scientists charging to read the other half of the story!!!!
I was never here, you were never here, this conversation never took place, and you most certainly did not see me.

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2005, 07:31:49 pm »
create what???  damn greedy scientists charging to read the other half of the story!!!!

well you can de a search at the various science sites for a full version on the same story using keywords:  "cosmic string observed" and see what turns up.

Offline E_Look

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2005, 08:30:55 pm »
Many sites are membership/subscription only these days.

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2005, 09:36:35 pm »
Found a copy ofthe new scientist report:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-07/ns-iia072705.php


 Is it a cosmic string we're seeing?


THE case for the existence of cosmic strings has just been boosted. If confirmed, these one-dimensional threads of energy that can span millions of light years could be the first sign of extra dimensions in the universe. Cosmic strings are predicted by string theory. They are gigantic counterparts of the strings that are thought to give rise to the fundamental particles of matter. String theory suggests that our universe may be a three-dimensional island, or "brane", and that the big bang was the result of a collision between our universe and another 3D brane. The collision would have given rise to one-dimensional cosmic strings, and finding such a string would strengthen the theory and support the idea that extra dimensions exist.
The immense energy of a cosmic string would warp the space-time around it. If one existed somewhere between us and a distant galaxy, say, the warped space-time would create two possible paths for the light from the galaxy to reach Earth. This would result in two identical images of the galaxy in our sky, just a whisker apart. Last year, that's exactly what Mikhail Sazhin of Capodimonte Astronomical Observatory in Naples, Italy, and the Sternberg Astronomical Institute in Moscow, Russia, and his colleagues found. They named the pair CSL-1 (New Scientist, 18 December 2004, p 30).

Many astronomers were sceptical of Sazhin's claim that a string was creating the images. Abraham Loeb of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts, said that CSL-1 is merely two very similar galaxies that happen to be close together. Now, Sazhin's team has presented more evidence that the two images are of the same galaxy. In March, the team used the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope at Paranal, Chile, to record detailed spectra of the two galaxies and found that they are identical (www.arxiv.org/astro-ph/0506400 ). This adds further weight to the possibility that CSL-1 is an artefact of a string, he says. "We are 99.9 per cent sure of this."

Loeb remains unconvinced. "It is not clear whether the quality of the spectra is sufficient to separate, for example, the Milky Way galaxy from the Andromeda galaxy in the local group of galaxies," he says. "Both the Milky Way and Andromeda might have similar spectra." He adds that if the astronomers could use their technique to tell these neighbours apart, then it would make their case for CSL-1 much stronger. Sazhin believes his team's technique would be precise enough to distinguish the Milky Way from Andromeda, even if they were as far away as CSL-1, but admits more work needs to be done to demonstrate this.

If a string is producing the twin galaxy images, the edges of the images should be extremely sharp, but our turbulent atmosphere prevents telescopes on Earth from detecting this. Now Sazhin has been granted turbulence-free observation time on the Hubble Space Telescope. "The resolution of the HST will allow us to detect the specific signature produced by the cosmic string," he says. "We hope it will reduce the scepticism of other astronomers."


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STORMBRINGER NOTE:    A boatload of dark matter, or a galaxy, group of galaxies, black hole, or any other massive 3D object would cause gravitational lensing involving multiple images arranged in an arc or circle around the lens. The theoretical hallmark of gravitational lensing caused by a cosmic string is a pair -- two and only two -- identical images close together. I really don't know much about it, but it seems to me that the nature of the lens -- 3D mass or 1D cosmic string -- is (theoretically) easily determined from the nature of the images it creates.



Offline prometheus

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2005, 11:54:04 am »
create what???  damn greedy scientists charging to read the other half of the story!!!!

Yeah, who cares about the pursuit of truth when you make a sh*tload of money...  >:(


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Offline E_Look

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2005, 03:22:16 pm »
Actually, it's to keep the nonscientist managers and office crews of the scientific organizations paid...

Offline prometheus

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2005, 03:59:45 pm »
Right...  For some reason I got it into my head that it was Universities who are of course government funded that were doing this...


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Offline E_Look

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Re: Physicists Say Universe Evolution Favored Three And Seven Dimensions
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2005, 04:02:16 pm »
@#$%! universities are skimming... I guess out of partial necessity, so it's partly okay... off research money.