Topic: Another Crazy ISC Invasion

[Hexx]

First off- KCW is still coming first, just taking abreak from figuring out who's fighting who
Second-
Hi!
And weclome to another server planning on reenacting the ISC invasion

This isn't an important thread, and the server wouldn't launch to feb 2006ish at the very earliest but
ideas..

- ISC are supposed to invade the neutral zone between the Empires, as well (if I understand correctly) occupy a few
" needed" areas of Empires to help promote their pacification campaign

Now,- server balance
"Historically" by the time the Pacification was underway most ( if not all) of the Empires were only interested in engaging
in *very* low intensity conflicts with theier neighbors. All were very much concerned about the ability to keep lines
of communication/attack open however, and all opposed the pacification as best tehy could

So- how to create an ISC Invasion that doesn't rely on creating Alliances with the ISC for racial balance.

I would propose- ISC vs the rest.
-Ships from the other Empires are only allowed in the Neutral zones .
The exception to this would be (if needed) Lyran and Klingon and Federation Gorn, to represent that these ar really
the core alliances in the game.

Any Empire would be allowed to engage in offensive operations anywhere in the Neutral Zone.
This would continue until a number (5? 8?) of their "Major" ships had been lost in PVP matches
At this point the Empires government is considered pacified. No Ships of that Empire would be permitted
to move beyond their home territory.

The ISC fleets would also have an advantage of "gunlines" Part of the ISC's superiority was that they had a larger navy then
many of the powers that had just finished fighting a war.
ISC pilots would be allowed to control up to 3 ships. -Only one could have PPD's, the other two would be limited to
some disposable DD's or FF's. Just something that may launch an F torp or two, as well as act as cannon fodder.
2 pilots winging together may not use mutilple fleets. (As 3 ISC players winging would have 9 ships, a little much)

VP's would be awarded for major ships killed, as well as control of critical planets/bases, both in the Neutral zone itself, and bordering it.


Thoughts? Suggestions?
gasps of admiration?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

"Gasp"

[Lepton]

Pretty cool.  My one question would be what is the incentive to an Empire to risk their capital ships and/or what would be the incentive to pacified empires to keep playing on the server once pacified?

[Hexx]

Pretty cool.  My one question would be what is the incentive to an Empire to risk their capital ships and/or what would be the incentive to pacified empires to keep playing on the server once pacified?

Question??
You dare to challenge Dax's gasping endorsement??

The idea is to try and simulate the ISC invasion with our (much) lower than optimal
numbers player base.


 An ISC "Victory" would be achived by
-controlling a number of strategic point in the neutral zones
-having no empires have a serious foothold in the neutral zones
-control of a number of planets/bases that border the neutral zones as well as surrounding territory

The alliances would base their victory on a combination
of keeping "their" areas of the neutral zone free from ISC influence, as well
as having their enemies weakened by the ISC fleets.

None of the Empires is ready for another general war though, and none would want to risk it
so any attacks on enemy empires would be limited to border hexes.

So basically -the Empires would be forced to use cap ships to try and keep the ISC from achieving it's nefarious (word for the day) goals.
Pacified empires would still be able to resist ISC encroachement on their home territory- the governments
would simply refuse to commit any ships to anywhere other than their home territory

[Julin Eurthyr]

Sounds like it might be a good concept...

Early Questions are:

Do we have (or could we get) enough ISC to pull this off without seriously weakening / killing the other empires?
Can everyone else put up with fighting "ISC Cheese" all server?  I wouldn't want this server to morph into yet another case of "bash the uber-ISC" like CW5, SGO4, and every other ISC-centric server...

[el-Karnak]

ISC pilots would be allowed to control up to 3 ships. -Only one could have PPD's, the other two would be limited to
some disposable DD's or FF's.

I don't think this idea would fly.  Most PvP is a one on one or two on two or two on one affair. Giving one side a two AI advantage would discourage PvP. You'd probably seeing people dumping the AI so that they could have their preferred PvP match.  Scripters have been nagged ad nauseum for AI stripping missions.  So, what's the point then of letting ISC players run multi-player fleets when all the other races cannot.

Most players play on the Dyna for the PvP value. Detract from the PvP enjoyment and you'll probably have a low turnout.

[Hexx]

Sounds like it might be a good concept...

Early Questions are:

Do we have (or could we get) enough ISC to pull this off without seriously weakening / killing the other empires?

IMO?- No, we'll have the ISC and a few cheesy bastards (DH) who will want to fly with them
Since we won't be able to approximate the necessary fleets- VP's will be balanced as mentioned.
Once the ISC has killed (in PVP) X number of named ships from an Empire, that Empire will no longer
be allowed out of their Original territory.
EX- ISC kills 5 Gorn and 5 Roms first dayof the Server, all are flying DN's or KHK's.
No Romulan or gorn ship is now permitted outside of their original boundries. They may still operate within their boundries though- the ISC can now safely move past Gorn & Rom space (in the nuetral zone) without worrying that one of the Empires will cut their supply line.
The ISC will have targets and VP hexes located inside some of the Empires- so they will have to invade at least some of them, but the rules should keep the Alliances from gang banging the ISC.

Can everyone else put up with fighting "ISC Cheese" all server?  I wouldn't want this server to morph into yet another case of "bash the uber-ISC" like CW5, SGO4, and every other ISC-centric server...

I would assume so, but ...
The server will be slanted in the ISC's favour, the pilots will be permitted to use squadrons to try and forma (very small) gunline. To balance this the ISC's VP's will require some strategies to make work.
The Empires will also need some strategy, they can't go toe to toe with the ISC- eventually they will lose
the Named ships and have to withdraw.
The Alliance and coalition will also be (to an extremely limited degree) fighting each other, the way for the Alliances to win are to deny the ISC their victory conditions an make sure the Other Alliance is beaten on.

[Hexx]

ISC pilots would be allowed to control up to 3 ships. -Only one could have PPD's, the other two would be limited to
some disposable DD's or FF's.

I don't think this idea would fly.  Most PvP is a one on one or two on two or two on one affair. Giving one side a two AI advantage would discourage PvP. You'd probably seeing people dumping the AI so that they could have their preferred PvP match.  Scripters have been nagged ad nauseum for AI stripping missions.  So, what's the point then of letting ISC players run multi-player fleets when all the other races cannot.

Most players play on the Dyna for the PvP value. Detract from the PvP enjoyment and you'll probably have a low turnout.

It's designed to give the ISC an advantage.
Haven't worked out final details yet, but essentially
1 ISC pilot can have 3 ships (2 of which-as I said are very low BPV)
2 ISC Pilots can have 3 ships (so only one gets two ships)
3 ISC players can have 3 ships

So yes, teh ISC will have an additonal advantage in one on one, and a slight advantage on two vs two
If a single ISC player is jumped by two BCH wielding maniacs- he's going to lose.

[el-Karnak]

ISC pilots would be allowed to control up to 3 ships. -Only one could have PPD's, the other two would be limited to
some disposable DD's or FF's.

I don't think this idea would fly.  Most PvP is a one on one or two on two or two on one affair. Giving one side a two AI advantage would discourage PvP. You'd probably seeing people dumping the AI so that they could have their preferred PvP match.  Scripters have been nagged ad nauseum for AI stripping missions.  So, what's the point then of letting ISC players run multi-player fleets when all the other races cannot.

Most players play on the Dyna for the PvP value. Detract from the PvP enjoyment and you'll probably have a low turnout.

It's designed to give the ISC an advantage.
Haven't worked out final details yet, but essentially
1 ISC pilot can have 3 ships (2 of which-as I said are very low BPV)
2 ISC Pilots can have 3 ships (so only one gets two ships)
3 ISC players can have 3 ships

So yes, teh ISC will have an additonal advantage in one on one, and a slight advantage on two vs two
If a single ISC player is jumped by two BCH wielding maniacs- he's going to lose.

An ISC player flying an I-CCY, I-DE, I-DDW combo in 2270 to 2275 timeframe will absolutely crush any enemy DN, CV player.   Prolly go with I-CCY, I-DE fleet to save PP on repairs.  It's not even a match worth fighting.  In IDSL, I smashed up a few alliance DN and CV players this way and I was a N00B back then. They lost all their 12 to 16 fighters on the first pass.

It's not relevant here, but I also found the I-CCY, I-CE fleet pretty much unbeatable by anything an enemy race can produce in Middle Era until the fast drones and super-PF CA tendors come out.

[Hexx]

LOL,sorry my bad
must have missed posting it
the ISC player will be allowed one normal ship, the other two will
be something like Frigates or Destroyers- I'm unfamilar with ISC ship types, but whatever
the small "disposable" ships are.
Enough that it will make a difference, but not something that's adding a few S torps
or PPD's to the unit.

[Soreyes]

It's not relevant here, but I also found the I-CCY, I-CE fleet pretty much unbeatable by anything an enemy race can produce in Middle Era until the fast drones and super-PF CA tendors come out.

Ahh so true my green friend. But then that could be off set by Frog neophytes like me who would just do suicide runs all the time

[el-Karnak]

LOL,sorry my bad
must have missed posting it
the ISC player will be allowed one normal ship, the other two will
be something like Frigates or Destroyers- I'm unfamilar with ISC ship types, but whatever
the small "disposable" ships are.
Enough that it will make a difference, but not something that's adding a few S torps
or PPD's to the unit.

Only ISC CLs and up can carry PPDs.  Most ISC players won't fly the CS ships, but instead go for the I-CMP which is a medium cruiser.  That ship can take on enemy CAs.  So, an I-CMP as secondary ship would be a challenging for the enemy players.

The first tier gunline would be strictly DDs and FFs that cannot carry PPDs.  You could say that an ISC player can only have one CL max and one DD max as their secondary ships. But, then the ISC would just dump the DD and take the CL or CMP??  Then you could say that the ISC player can only take DD and FF as secondary ships.  Then we'd take the I-DE or the meanest HDW available.  I very much doubt any ISC playe would go with 3 ship fleets in Middle Era to save on repairs and fighter replacements. 

In Late Era, those CAV IIIs would eat up the enemy easily. Launch 16 CAV IIIs on a StarBase and it's gone in a minute.  Drone waves go poof real quick. Enemy CL AI are a crunchy one-pass snack.So, you would load up on CVAs and PFTs (if available). Throw in a I-DE or I-HDW too.  Your PC might also crash from all the lagging with all those enemy drones and attrition units in the air.

[Hexx]

As i said- dunno about ISC ships, but it woould be 1 CL size and up plus 2FF types
No HDW's though. Never liked them, never will

And no CavIII's
Ever

Evil, evil ,little things.

[el-Karnak]

As i said- dunno about ISC ships, but it woould be 1 CL size and up plus 2FF types
No HDW's though. Never liked them, never will

And no CavIII's
Ever

Evil, evil ,little things.

Hey, you forgot the:

[FPF-DieHard]

And no CavIII's
Ever

Evil, evil ,little things.

I;'e seen them a lot on IP games lately, and I've not

[Hexx]

And no CavIII's
Ever

Evil, evil ,little things.

I;'e seen them a lot on IP games lately, and I've not

Well, uhmm..

I'm glad you haven't?
You shouldn't
It's bad for you.

[Hexx]

As i said- dunno about ISC ships, but it woould be 1 CL size and up plus 2FF types
No HDW's though. Never liked them, never will

And no CavIII's
Ever

Evil, evil ,little things.

Hey, you forgot the:

Actually- and it's entirely possible I'm just stupid- I'm not hugely concerned about the ISC's killer ships.
yes the BCV will be nasty, and likely tough (especially with a 2xFF gunline) but I think a BCV with a human
CCH ally would beat it.

The idea is sort of to give the concept of the gunline a workable advantage. In one on one duels the ISC will have an advantage
In 2 Alliance vs One ISC the ISC can (to a degree) negate some of his disadvantage.
In a 2v2 the ISC will have a slight advantage
In a 3v3 it's down to the ships.