Topic: SGO Shiplist error

[Hexx]

The BCE's move cost is 1.25 as opposed to the normal 1 of the other BCH's
It also (iirc) has a slightly higher power maintenance cost.

And gee Diz, I would think the challenge for a pilot of your...calibre would
be to win with it using only the factory options, only primadonnas need to
go aftermarket...

[Corbomite]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Well its funny the AMD "granted" to the BCE is an AMD 12, so I guess it runs out as fast as the one on the C7. All other Fed BCH's have AMD 6.
Besides, whats wrong w/ a "Deadweight" ship among your BCH's, you have the most of any race to choose from...

I wonder what other unannounced changes have been made behind the scenes?

When somebody actually flies a BCE, then you can bitch   

Don't make me get on this server!  The BCE, while odd, is a fine ship (well the stock version anyway, I don't know what Dizzy did to mangle it). There are better BCH's out there, but the only real hindrance is the move cost.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

The BCE is  a backwards ship.  It either needs tweaks, or needs to be removed.  No other ship comes out so late with no ADD/Seeking weapons/Fighters  (It's 2 Ph3's fire RA only..lol).  I could also see lowering it's power to 42, reducing it's move cost to 1, and reducing it's shield strength a bit and calling it the F-BCH.  Coming out a year or two before the BCG.

Those aren't the only ships that are screwy though.    For example, I'd like to see the K'Tinga with 2 more points of power and a cheap cloak (didn't anyone see ST: VI ?). 

in 6, the BOP cloaked like in #3, but not the k'tinga anywhere.

[CaptJosh]

Right. QonoS pagh(Kronos One) never cloaked.

[Dizzy]

only primadonnas need to
go aftermarket...

[Dizzy]

Don't make me get on this server!  The BCE, while odd, is a fine ship (well the stock version anyway, I don't know what Dizzy did to mangle it). There are better BCH's out there, but the only real hindrance is the move cost.

If anyone could pwn with this ship, Corbo could. Someone said it's not that good a Western ship, cept mb the Lyrs. Not true, the Lyrs, w/o drones or ftrs to mop up, they turn their ESG's into lawnmowers and run amok. It could handle Roms, tho. And mb a C7, but after one match the C7 wouldnt make the same mistakes again...

I dunno, Corbo, it'd be an uphill battle coming out so late when the cheese hits having none itself. Er... she is a casual tender like everyone else in that era. Dunno if that'd help.

[Corbomite]

Don't make me get on this server!  The BCE, while odd, is a fine ship (well the stock version anyway, I don't know what Dizzy did to mangle it). There are better BCH's out there, but the only real hindrance is the move cost.

If anyone could pwn with this ship, Corbo could. Someone said it's not that good a Western ship, cept mb the Lyrs. Not true, the Lyrs, w/o drones or ftrs to mop up, they turn their ESG's into lawnmowers and run amok. It could handle Roms, tho. And mb a C7, but after one match the C7 wouldnt make the same mistakes again...

I dunno, Corbo, it'd be an uphill battle coming out so late when the cheese hits having none itself. Er... she is a casual tender like everyone else in that era. Dunno if that'd help.

About the only changes I would make to that ship would be to expand the PH-3 arcs to 360 and to give it a two shuttle launch rate to make up for the lack of AMD/Drones. The thing can go 27.6 charging all six photons or 27.6 holding OL. It can go 31 fully charged with normals with points to spare. Any ship that can do that ain't all that bad.

[Dizzy]

It has those revised phaser arcs. The NCM and BCE have 2x launch. And they both got an ADD12. I'd say its competitive. But speed 31 drones, PF's and Ftrs would cause it massive headaches. Ship vs ship its a monster. It's all the side dishes that kill it.

[Corbomite]

AMD 12? That seems a bit much. It (the BCE) has five Transporters and three Tractor Beams. What does it need with an AMD 12? The NCM maybe an AMD 6, but I'd rather see it redone as an NCL (2/3 move cost, 32 power) with the stock loadouts. That way it could travel faster while firing to the rear and wouldn't need the AMD at all.

[Dizzy]

Corbo, you need to stop thinking GSA here with a BPV limit. This is D2, baby. With NO limit. You will be facing off against the likes of cheese you would find in a Tillamook factory. With only rear firing phasers and 2x Photons, you dont have the time to kill the ftrs, PF's and drones b4 your 12 mines run out. Sorry, but this isnt ship to ship here, we are talking ship to cheese of many flavors.

You talk about going 26-27 charging... You need to be goint 32, sir.

I'm sorry, but even with an ADD12 and 12 mines, that stil wont buy your ship the time it needs to use the 2x rear photons and your phasers to kill the ships chasing you. You are welcome to try. If anyone can, you could. But I doubt it. Was it Jeff that said it, the boat just comes out way too late when all the cheese hits. The BCE is just too cold to melt any of it up and too dull to cut it.

[FPF-DieHard]

The Trek ships don't fit in SFB universe.

Elephant and Pig DNA don't splice.

[Corbomite]

That's terribly uncreative of you tactics-wise, but its your server.

[Hexx]

Agreed- it is your server and your call.. but it should be pointed out..
BCG  Vs BCE

Same turn mode
BCE can hold 4 photons at spd 31 using 46.9 power of 51 ( 4 excess for ecm)
BCG can hold 4 photons at spd 31 using 39.5 power of 41 (1.5 excess)

BCE has 36 points more shielding than BCG
BCE has 4 more forward hull
            2 more aft hull
            1 more excess damage
BCE has 2x shuttle launch, although no scatterpacks.
BCE has an additional transporter and an additional tractor over a BCG
And not sure how they work in SFC (or if they do) but
BCE has 8 scanner and 8 sensor to BCG 6 sensor and 6 scanner

In short- for everything except the drone launching issue- the BCE is now a superior
ship over the BCG.

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

Of course I have been working on a Lyran BCV photon variant...

[Hexx]

The Trek ships don't fit in SFB universe.

Elephant and Pig DNA don't splice.

pot bellied elephants would have been so cool..

[Corbomite]

BCE has 2x shuttle launch, although no scatterpacks.

Not in the stock version, although it should. Its a BIG ship.

And not sure how they work in SFC (or if they do) but
BCE has 8 scanner and 8 sensor to BCG 6 sensor and 6 scanner

This allows it to take more damage to the Sensor and Scanner tracks and still be able to fire w/o degradation, i.e. "natural" ECM. When you go below 6 your Lock On starts to degrade. Most Fed ships have at least two "6" boxes anyway, so you hardly ever see this unless you are pretty much wrecked.

[Dizzy]

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

There is no issue. Both the BCG and C7 can loft up 4-6 drones at once. The C7, 12. And you think a BCE with a few rear phasers and 2x photons will be able to match that? ha!

Here we go again with your textbook pedantic silliness, Hexx. You try and explain it away on paper and it just falls apart. What dont you understand about the BCE not having anything to deal with cheese? Where are it's cheese shredders? I dont see any!

And obviously, you know little of what you are talking about if you think the Klinks are disadvantaged. Go look at the C7S and you tell me who would win in a match, that or a BCE.

That's a match I would beat Corbo in 9 out of 10 times.

[Corbomite]

The Trek ships don't fit in SFB universe.

Elephant and Pig DNA don't splice.

And a lot of SFB items don't fit into the SFC universe, but that doesn't stop you guys from cramming it in there anyway.

[Corbomite]

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

There is no issue. Both the BCG and C7 can loft up 4-6 drones at once. The C7, 12. And you think a BCE with a few rear phasers and 2x photons will be able to match that? ha!

Here we go again with your textbook pedantic silliness, Hexx. You try and explain it away on paper and it just falls apart. What dont you understand about the BCE not having anything to deal with cheese? Where are it's cheese shredders? I dont see any!

And obviously, you know little of what you are talking about if you think the Klinks are disadvantaged. Go look at the C7S and you tell me who would win in a match, that or a BCE.

That's a match I would beat Corbo in 9 out of 10 times.

There are a lot of BCH's that can't handle a full carrier or BCS, what's your point? That's what wingmen are for. You keep trying to say that it is deficient because it can't kick everything's a$$ that it meets. Stop trying to make it into a CCZ  . It seems to me you guys should just give everyone the X2 ships to fly all server because all you want to do is make up for pilot inequities by handing out gobs of cheese and making tactics and skill a moot point. Admit it, that's what you really want to do Dizzy. 

Besides, adding AMD to Fed ship without a G-Rack is technically a no-no. I thought we all had agreed using exploits was bad form or was that 20+ pages of nonsense just a bad dream?

[Capt Jeff]

The BCE is  a backwards ship.  It either needs tweaks, or needs to be removed.  No other ship comes out so late with no ADD/Seeking weapons/Fighters  (It's 2 Ph3's fire RA only..lol).  I could also see lowering it's power to 42, reducing it's move cost to 1, and reducing it's shield strength a bit and calling it the F-BCH.  Coming out a year or two before the BCG.

Those aren't the only ships that are screwy though.    For example, I'd like to see the K'Tinga with 2 more points of power and a cheap cloak (didn't anyone see ST: VI ?). 

in 6, the BOP cloaked like in #3, but not the k'tinga anywhere.

Oh no no 

When Kirk and Spock were heading to the bridge, there was a announcement over comms  "Klingon battlecruiser de-cloaking off the port bow"     

[Hexx]

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

There is no issue. Both the BCG and C7 can loft up 4-6 drones at once. The C7, 12. And you think a BCE with a few rear phasers and 2x photons will be able to match that? ha!

Here we go again with your textbook pedantic silliness, Hexx. You try and explain it away on paper and it just falls apart. What dont you understand about the BCE not having anything to deal with cheese? Where are it's cheese shredders? I dont see any!

And obviously, you know little of what you are talking about if you think the Klinks are disadvantaged. Go look at the C7S and you tell me who would win in a match, that or a BCE.

That's a match I would beat Corbo in 9 out of 10 times.

Uhmm
So your rationale for improvements on a baseline BCH is that it can't take on a BCH with a flight of PF's?
Isn't that line of thinking laregly the same as 'well the CB can't take on a D7X so let's improve it"

a BCV would be the match against a C7V
a BCS would be the match against a C7S

You've essentially taken a Fed BCH ,
-taken out the drones

-improved it's powercurve
-improved it's shield strength @ 20%
-improved it's phaser coverage to the rear
-improved it's internal structure


And are justifying this as the ship can't take out a ship it wasn't meant to fight..

Again, _I mean I am a textbook kinda guy, but it looks to me like a ship
that actually has betetr phaser and photon firepower to the rear, which I suppose
could be used to reduce the Feds turn disadvantage- I mean the Fed BCG/F can fire 6 phasers
to the rear, so 2 Photons and 8 phasers would be more,
(I mean -more if you use "textbooks" I'm sure in the 'real D2" it can actually fire less)