Topic: SGO Shiplist error

[Braxton_RIP]

I have been flying various Fed ships.  On the BCE, either the RSLF (Slot 15) or the LSRF (Slot 14) is screwed up.  On allows fire to the FX and direct rear (Slot 15) the other is showing as a FHL (Slot 14) .

If it is just some sort of bug and they fire properly, I'll shut up.  Going to go back to flying.

[Hexx]

 An error on the BCE that's gone unoticed??     

The ships actual firing arcs match neither what they show on the UI, nor what
the SL has them at.


I'm thinking the BCE jockey's are screwed..

[Dizzy]

The BCE's screwed up arcs do not have the proper graphic interface. They are patched and work, but you just cant see what arc they fire from the pic of the arc.

The one on the left fires LS+FA. The one on the right fires RS+FA.

Hope that helps.

[Braxton_RIP]

Alrighty, thanks.  Good to know since it might actually be a little more useful with the AMD on it.

[Hexx]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

[Braxton_RIP]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

[Hexx]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Yesss.. on the other hand the Feds already have a BCG,BCF,BCJ,BCV,BCS do they really need a 6th BCH?
I mean I still thinks it suxxors, but  if no one cares I'll save up my whining for the next server 

[Dizzy]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Yesss.. on the other hand the Feds already have a BCG,BCF,BCJ,BCV,BCS do they really need a 6th BCH?
I mean I still thinks it suxxors, but  if no one cares I'll save up my whining for the next server 

Look at it this way, the Klinks did it right the 1st time: C7

[Hexx]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Yesss.. on the other hand the Feds already have a BCG,BCF,BCJ,BCV,BCS do they really need a 6th BCH?
I mean I still thinks it suxxors, but  if no one cares I'll save up my whining for the next server 

Look at it this way, the Klinks did it right the 1st time: C7

<coughs> BCPP..

[LordSaxon]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Well its funny the AMD "granted" to the BCE is an AMD 12, so I guess it runs out as fast as the one on the C7. All other Fed BCH's have AMD 6.
Besides, whats wrong w/ a "Deadweight" ship among your BCH's, you have the most of any race to choose from...

I wonder what other unannounced changes have been made behind the scenes?

[FPF-DieHard]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Well its funny the AMD "granted" to the BCE is an AMD 12, so I guess it runs out as fast as the one on the C7. All other Fed BCH's have AMD 6.
Besides, whats wrong w/ a "Deadweight" ship among your BCH's, you have the most of any race to choose from...

I wonder what other unannounced changes have been made behind the scenes?

When somebody actually flies a BCE, then you can bitch   

[Dizzy]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Well its funny the AMD "granted" to the BCE is an AMD 12, so I guess it runs out as fast as the one on the C7. All other Fed BCH's have AMD 6.
Besides, whats wrong w/ a "Deadweight" ship among your BCH's, you have the most of any race to choose from...

I wonder what other unannounced changes have been made behind the scenes?

The Miranda got 2x Ph3's and an ADD12. That's it for that one. The BCE got revised ph1 arcs and an ADD12. W/o drone racks, and keep this in mind, they come out in the era of cheese, they just cant deal with ftrs or PF's... These two ships are support for the most part, but dealing with cheese is asking too much of them.

Deadweights, DH, mb... but they have a chance now.

Well its funny the AMD "granted" to the BCE is an AMD 12, so I guess it runs out as fast as the one on the C7.

Well, since the BCE doesnt have drones, the C7 wouldnt run out at all.

And Saxon, the only other changes to the Fed list are the removal of the F-PFB. That heavy PF boat is gone. I thought it was too uber. On the flip side, your C10K got an upgrade... ADD or something... I'd have to ask DH. But its better than stock C10K.

[Hexx]

The problem is (imo) that the "new" BCE would make a wicked castler.
Sure it can't move(well), but photons fore and aft , better phaser arcs
and AMD (even if limited)with 51 power behind it all
would make for some great ECM/ECCm power and shiled reinforcement.

-> Just my opinion though, Ill admit for all I know it could be the worst castler ever.
Unfortunately I have very little experience at being a star castling twat so..

I'm not saying it's a bad idea,- but why was any thought at all given to it? Feds already have 3 BCH's, and
have one with 6 photons already

[FPF-DieHard]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea,- but why was any thought at all given to it? Feds already have 3 BCH's, and
have one with 6 photons already

It's one of Dizzy's pet obscessions.  I'm serious.

[Hexx]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea,- but why was any thought at all given to it? Feds already have 3 BCH's, and
have one with 6 photons already

It's one of Dizzy's pet obscessions.  I'm serious.

Eh, as I said- I think it would make a wicked castler, but I can't see how it would dominate PVP in any real way.
Guess I'll have to get started on that BCV-mauler thing I was working on..

[Dizzy]

I'll be honest. I have an obsessive compulsive disorder when it comes to the BCE, CAI and NCM. Fortunately, I am taking medication now and I have managed to leave behind 1/3 of my problems. I cut the CAI from SG5.

On ALL past SG servers, these three ships have been pet projects of mine. They fascinate me. Possibly because they are unique in the Fed lineup and have some hidden and innate quality that demands to discovered. All of those servers have seen a slightly tweaked and different version of them. Yet something is glaringly wrong with them. They are quite your oddity standout for sure. These ships dont know what to be. I dont know what it is, but I just cant seem to fix what is wrong with them. They are like a near perfect diamond but one that has an exceedingly large flaw, but still a daimond.

My goal with these ships has always been one and the same. To have an excellent PvP ship w/o it being OTT. But version after version has shown only one thing to be consistent with these ships. They are lepers. So the quest goes on. Last server iirc, the BCE had 6x photons that all fired FARA. It was mean. But it still wasnt right.

This server, I changed course a bit, left the photon arcs alone, and revised the phaser arcs a tad and added an ADD rack.

Why do I do this? I dont know. The only players who have ever flown them on a server, are your truly, and I did spot SSCF Paladin in one. Kinda like one of those moments when you catch someone riding a moped or a fat .... 

Seriosuly, tho... these ships have always been chastised, put down laughed at. But they have the potential to pwn an opponent in an exceedingly embarrasing way. You just have to fly them to know how. You have to understand them. And I doubt that anyone understands them the way I do... You will see. You will all see. I will show you.

[Braxton_RIP]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Well its funny the AMD "granted" to the BCE is an AMD 12, so I guess it runs out as fast as the one on the C7. All other Fed BCH's have AMD 6.
Besides, whats wrong w/ a "Deadweight" ship among your BCH's, you have the most of any race to choose from...

I wonder what other unannounced changes have been made behind the scenes?

Yea... just because I said it didn't suck as much as it used to doesn't mean anyone is dumb enough to fly it.... I might take her for a spin, but the hell I am going to take from people about how it is a POS and I should go back to flying my F-POL+ lol.....

[Capt Jeff]

The BCE is  a backwards ship.  It either needs tweaks, or needs to be removed.  No other ship comes out so late with no ADD/Seeking weapons/Fighters  (It's 2 Ph3's fire RA only..lol).  I could also see lowering it's power to 42, reducing it's move cost to 1, and reducing it's shield strength a bit and calling it the F-BCH.  Coming out a year or two before the BCG.

Those aren't the only ships that are screwy though.    For example, I'd like to see the K'Tinga with 2 more points of power and a cheap cloak (didn't anyone see ST: VI ?). 

[CaptJosh]

It's supposed to be the Excelsior. For some reason, actual on screen ship classes seem to get nerfed. Look at the stock Miranda class. The only decent thing about it is that all four torps are FA/RA. It is useable, but not yet by me. I'm not that good a pilot yet.

[Julin Eurthyr]

IIRC, the CAI, NCM, and BCE were supposed to be the "movie" ships.  CAI = TMP Enterprise, NCM = TWOK Reliant, BCE = NX2000 Excelsior.  D7T = TMP K'Tinga (more the ones seen in ST I, not the Khronos of ST VI...)

Weaponry was designed to reflect their "on-screen" loadouts, not the SFB-style.  As the movies didn't have lots of drones etc., they were designed with little to no PD weaponry.  They might be better "Plasma front" ships than "Western front" ships (maybe useful against Lyrans), if their move costs weren't so screwy in some cases (isn't the BCE's MC=1.5 instead of the 1.25 of most BCHs?)

[Hexx]

The BCE's move cost is 1.25 as opposed to the normal 1 of the other BCH's
It also (iirc) has a slightly higher power maintenance cost.

And gee Diz, I would think the challenge for a pilot of your...calibre would
be to win with it using only the factory options, only primadonnas need to
go aftermarket...

[Corbomite]

Where's the "boggle?" button..

Someone put AMD on the BCE and NCM?

Gotta look at it this way, it is better than having two dead weight ships, an NCA and a BCH in the Fed list.  I few the BCE a couple times against the AI earlier and it was actually fun to fly.  It is only 1 AMD, so it runs out fast....

Well its funny the AMD "granted" to the BCE is an AMD 12, so I guess it runs out as fast as the one on the C7. All other Fed BCH's have AMD 6.
Besides, whats wrong w/ a "Deadweight" ship among your BCH's, you have the most of any race to choose from...

I wonder what other unannounced changes have been made behind the scenes?

When somebody actually flies a BCE, then you can bitch   

Don't make me get on this server!  The BCE, while odd, is a fine ship (well the stock version anyway, I don't know what Dizzy did to mangle it). There are better BCH's out there, but the only real hindrance is the move cost.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

The BCE is  a backwards ship.  It either needs tweaks, or needs to be removed.  No other ship comes out so late with no ADD/Seeking weapons/Fighters  (It's 2 Ph3's fire RA only..lol).  I could also see lowering it's power to 42, reducing it's move cost to 1, and reducing it's shield strength a bit and calling it the F-BCH.  Coming out a year or two before the BCG.

Those aren't the only ships that are screwy though.    For example, I'd like to see the K'Tinga with 2 more points of power and a cheap cloak (didn't anyone see ST: VI ?). 

in 6, the BOP cloaked like in #3, but not the k'tinga anywhere.

[CaptJosh]

Right. QonoS pagh(Kronos One) never cloaked.

[Dizzy]

only primadonnas need to
go aftermarket...

[Dizzy]

Don't make me get on this server!  The BCE, while odd, is a fine ship (well the stock version anyway, I don't know what Dizzy did to mangle it). There are better BCH's out there, but the only real hindrance is the move cost.

If anyone could pwn with this ship, Corbo could. Someone said it's not that good a Western ship, cept mb the Lyrs. Not true, the Lyrs, w/o drones or ftrs to mop up, they turn their ESG's into lawnmowers and run amok. It could handle Roms, tho. And mb a C7, but after one match the C7 wouldnt make the same mistakes again...

I dunno, Corbo, it'd be an uphill battle coming out so late when the cheese hits having none itself. Er... she is a casual tender like everyone else in that era. Dunno if that'd help.

[Corbomite]

Don't make me get on this server!  The BCE, while odd, is a fine ship (well the stock version anyway, I don't know what Dizzy did to mangle it). There are better BCH's out there, but the only real hindrance is the move cost.

If anyone could pwn with this ship, Corbo could. Someone said it's not that good a Western ship, cept mb the Lyrs. Not true, the Lyrs, w/o drones or ftrs to mop up, they turn their ESG's into lawnmowers and run amok. It could handle Roms, tho. And mb a C7, but after one match the C7 wouldnt make the same mistakes again...

I dunno, Corbo, it'd be an uphill battle coming out so late when the cheese hits having none itself. Er... she is a casual tender like everyone else in that era. Dunno if that'd help.

About the only changes I would make to that ship would be to expand the PH-3 arcs to 360 and to give it a two shuttle launch rate to make up for the lack of AMD/Drones. The thing can go 27.6 charging all six photons or 27.6 holding OL. It can go 31 fully charged with normals with points to spare. Any ship that can do that ain't all that bad.

[Dizzy]

It has those revised phaser arcs. The NCM and BCE have 2x launch. And they both got an ADD12. I'd say its competitive. But speed 31 drones, PF's and Ftrs would cause it massive headaches. Ship vs ship its a monster. It's all the side dishes that kill it.

[Corbomite]

AMD 12? That seems a bit much. It (the BCE) has five Transporters and three Tractor Beams. What does it need with an AMD 12? The NCM maybe an AMD 6, but I'd rather see it redone as an NCL (2/3 move cost, 32 power) with the stock loadouts. That way it could travel faster while firing to the rear and wouldn't need the AMD at all.

[Dizzy]

Corbo, you need to stop thinking GSA here with a BPV limit. This is D2, baby. With NO limit. You will be facing off against the likes of cheese you would find in a Tillamook factory. With only rear firing phasers and 2x Photons, you dont have the time to kill the ftrs, PF's and drones b4 your 12 mines run out. Sorry, but this isnt ship to ship here, we are talking ship to cheese of many flavors.

You talk about going 26-27 charging... You need to be goint 32, sir.

I'm sorry, but even with an ADD12 and 12 mines, that stil wont buy your ship the time it needs to use the 2x rear photons and your phasers to kill the ships chasing you. You are welcome to try. If anyone can, you could. But I doubt it. Was it Jeff that said it, the boat just comes out way too late when all the cheese hits. The BCE is just too cold to melt any of it up and too dull to cut it.

[FPF-DieHard]

The Trek ships don't fit in SFB universe.

Elephant and Pig DNA don't splice.

[Corbomite]

That's terribly uncreative of you tactics-wise, but its your server.

[Hexx]

Agreed- it is your server and your call.. but it should be pointed out..
BCG  Vs BCE

Same turn mode
BCE can hold 4 photons at spd 31 using 46.9 power of 51 ( 4 excess for ecm)
BCG can hold 4 photons at spd 31 using 39.5 power of 41 (1.5 excess)

BCE has 36 points more shielding than BCG
BCE has 4 more forward hull
            2 more aft hull
            1 more excess damage
BCE has 2x shuttle launch, although no scatterpacks.
BCE has an additional transporter and an additional tractor over a BCG
And not sure how they work in SFC (or if they do) but
BCE has 8 scanner and 8 sensor to BCG 6 sensor and 6 scanner

In short- for everything except the drone launching issue- the BCE is now a superior
ship over the BCG.

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

Of course I have been working on a Lyran BCV photon variant...

[Hexx]

The Trek ships don't fit in SFB universe.

Elephant and Pig DNA don't splice.

pot bellied elephants would have been so cool..

[Corbomite]

BCE has 2x shuttle launch, although no scatterpacks.

Not in the stock version, although it should. Its a BIG ship.

And not sure how they work in SFC (or if they do) but
BCE has 8 scanner and 8 sensor to BCG 6 sensor and 6 scanner

This allows it to take more damage to the Sensor and Scanner tracks and still be able to fire w/o degradation, i.e. "natural" ECM. When you go below 6 your Lock On starts to degrade. Most Fed ships have at least two "6" boxes anyway, so you hardly ever see this unless you are pretty much wrecked.

[Dizzy]

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

There is no issue. Both the BCG and C7 can loft up 4-6 drones at once. The C7, 12. And you think a BCE with a few rear phasers and 2x photons will be able to match that? ha!

Here we go again with your textbook pedantic silliness, Hexx. You try and explain it away on paper and it just falls apart. What dont you understand about the BCE not having anything to deal with cheese? Where are it's cheese shredders? I dont see any!

And obviously, you know little of what you are talking about if you think the Klinks are disadvantaged. Go look at the C7S and you tell me who would win in a match, that or a BCE.

That's a match I would beat Corbo in 9 out of 10 times.

[Corbomite]

The Trek ships don't fit in SFB universe.

Elephant and Pig DNA don't splice.

And a lot of SFB items don't fit into the SFC universe, but that doesn't stop you guys from cramming it in there anyway.

[Corbomite]

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

There is no issue. Both the BCG and C7 can loft up 4-6 drones at once. The C7, 12. And you think a BCE with a few rear phasers and 2x photons will be able to match that? ha!

Here we go again with your textbook pedantic silliness, Hexx. You try and explain it away on paper and it just falls apart. What dont you understand about the BCE not having anything to deal with cheese? Where are it's cheese shredders? I dont see any!

And obviously, you know little of what you are talking about if you think the Klinks are disadvantaged. Go look at the C7S and you tell me who would win in a match, that or a BCE.

That's a match I would beat Corbo in 9 out of 10 times.

There are a lot of BCH's that can't handle a full carrier or BCS, what's your point? That's what wingmen are for. You keep trying to say that it is deficient because it can't kick everything's a$$ that it meets. Stop trying to make it into a CCZ  . It seems to me you guys should just give everyone the X2 ships to fly all server because all you want to do is make up for pilot inequities by handing out gobs of cheese and making tactics and skill a moot point. Admit it, that's what you really want to do Dizzy. 

Besides, adding AMD to Fed ship without a G-Rack is technically a no-no. I thought we all had agreed using exploits was bad form or was that 20+ pages of nonsense just a bad dream?

[Capt Jeff]

The BCE is  a backwards ship.  It either needs tweaks, or needs to be removed.  No other ship comes out so late with no ADD/Seeking weapons/Fighters  (It's 2 Ph3's fire RA only..lol).  I could also see lowering it's power to 42, reducing it's move cost to 1, and reducing it's shield strength a bit and calling it the F-BCH.  Coming out a year or two before the BCG.

Those aren't the only ships that are screwy though.    For example, I'd like to see the K'Tinga with 2 more points of power and a cheap cloak (didn't anyone see ST: VI ?). 

in 6, the BOP cloaked like in #3, but not the k'tinga anywhere.

Oh no no 

When Kirk and Spock were heading to the bridge, there was a announcement over comms  "Klingon battlecruiser de-cloaking off the port bow"     

[Hexx]

As is- yeah I think there's an issue (again- your server though)  throw the Klinks an amped up C7 to
balance it (if they want) and it'd be OK I'd think.

There is no issue. Both the BCG and C7 can loft up 4-6 drones at once. The C7, 12. And you think a BCE with a few rear phasers and 2x photons will be able to match that? ha!

Here we go again with your textbook pedantic silliness, Hexx. You try and explain it away on paper and it just falls apart. What dont you understand about the BCE not having anything to deal with cheese? Where are it's cheese shredders? I dont see any!

And obviously, you know little of what you are talking about if you think the Klinks are disadvantaged. Go look at the C7S and you tell me who would win in a match, that or a BCE.

That's a match I would beat Corbo in 9 out of 10 times.

Uhmm
So your rationale for improvements on a baseline BCH is that it can't take on a BCH with a flight of PF's?
Isn't that line of thinking laregly the same as 'well the CB can't take on a D7X so let's improve it"

a BCV would be the match against a C7V
a BCS would be the match against a C7S

You've essentially taken a Fed BCH ,
-taken out the drones

-improved it's powercurve
-improved it's shield strength @ 20%
-improved it's phaser coverage to the rear
-improved it's internal structure


And are justifying this as the ship can't take out a ship it wasn't meant to fight..

Again, _I mean I am a textbook kinda guy, but it looks to me like a ship
that actually has betetr phaser and photon firepower to the rear, which I suppose
could be used to reduce the Feds turn disadvantage- I mean the Fed BCG/F can fire 6 phasers
to the rear, so 2 Photons and 8 phasers would be more,
(I mean -more if you use "textbooks" I'm sure in the 'real D2" it can actually fire less)

[Dizzy]

It doesnt matter what any of you say. I KNOW the BCE. And it knows me. We are one. Without me it is nothing. It will probably still be nothing no matter what is done. Isnt that is something? But it is less than something than last server where it had FARA torps. It might as well been nothing there too because people treated it as nothing. That is something. So your argument is over nothing.

[Corbomite]

Ahhh, I see Diz. You're right. I had forgotten the SFB Zealot's mantra. C'mon everyone! Get up onto your feet, put your hands together and join me in the cheer!





Starfleet Battles, Starfleet Battles

The only way to play,

Until it conflicts with what we want

Then we just throw it away!


Starfleet Battles, Starfleet Battles

The rules are set in stone,

Until we decide they're not for us

Because we couldn't pwn!


Starfleet Battles, Starfleet Battles

Come and join us in the yell,

And if you don't agree with what we say

You can go to Hell! 





Sorry, but this is what happens when Corbo has a week day off and goes out drinking the night before. 

[Dizzy]

STOP! Thank you for the song and dance. Firm and irrevocable is my decision. I have spoken. You may now continue with your song and dance.

[Corbomite]

[Hexx]

LOL karma all round.
Dizzy for his creepy, yet honest anwser about the ship
Corbo for the tune 'll be singing all day.


And for teh record, I don't think the ship is OTT, I do
think it's a good ship, and am simply trying to preempt
t00ls cries when he gets killed by one.

[Dizzy]

Thank you Hexx for your input. I actually read your posts, not many do. As far as you saying, "am simply trying to preempt
t00ls cries when he gets killed by one", well, you presume that a Fed will actually fly it... You arnt a Fed, Hexx, so you just dont understand...

[CaptJosh]

I though t00l was flying Hydran this server...

[Corbomite]

I though t00l was flying Hydran this server...

And the Hydrans are Coalition this time out. Try to keep up with the rest of the class Josh. 

[CaptJosh]

That was my point exactly. Except that I misread something. Somehow something got in there about t00l flying one, not flying against one. Clearly I need to wake up...

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

You want to see the F-BCE used?  Bring it out in say...  year 10 (4 years before the BCG)

Change the phaser arcs (especially that ph3 mount) and give it a launch rate of 2, but drop the shields to BCG/F/J level.

Leave the rest alone.

It was supposed to be an experimental test bed.  Use it that way, as the test bed that leads to the Fed's BCH's.

It is a mixed blessing on power.  Plenty of it, but that 1.25 MC....yeesh...

And with the limitations on capital ships, you won't see many of them on the board at a time anyways.

She still turns like a pig and somewhat equal on rear fire power (only 4 phasers1's and 2 photons) compared to the other Fed BC's (6 rear firing ph1's )

It will do better against mid era drones and the cheesiness of mid era and give the Feds a decent slot ship between the CC+ (which is long in the tooth at this point) & DNL (I am gonna assume they won't build any DN's or DN+'s).  And it also gives the Feds a viable ship against the I-CCY that isn't a dread.

As for the NCM, did some one suggest giving it a 2/3 power curve?!?!?!?

Can you see a CLC with 38 power & FARA photon arcs?!?!   

You're high, but I would LOVE it as a Fed!!! 

I think a .83 MC like the CS and dropping the 2 center warp power points would be better for all concerned.  Though it would look a lot like the CS then...

[Hexx]

That's crazy talk

There's No way anyone else should get a BCH that early.

[el-Karnak]

That's crazy talk

There's No way anyone else should get a BCH that early.

Yeah, the I-CCYs don't like that.

[Corbomite]

As for the NCM, did some one suggest giving it a 2/3 power curve?!?!?!?

Umm, hello?! I said 2/3 move cost, 32 power. Sheesh! And I thought I was drunk! There would also be the mandatory loss of 100% HET down to 83%.

[Corbomite]

That's crazy talk

There's No way anyone else should get a BCH that early.

Except the ISC and Lyrans you mean... 

[FPF-DieHard]

Just leave the fricking thing out 

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

You're right, Hexx.  That is why we should knock the Lyran's BC back to say... year 14 to coincide with the average of the rest of the races.

L-BC year 5 'p+' refit year 6 Pp refit year 7
Z-BC year -3
Z-BF year 2
I-CCY year 7
G-BC year 12
K-C7 year 14
R-KCR year 18 (no idea what else is considered a battlecruiser for the Roms)
H-OV year 17
H-OS year 19

As it is, the ship is no match for late era ships.  Give it a bit of time before late era comes out.

Besides, the most you would ever see on the board is 3  and that is if all your 14 points at that point were put into Fed BCE's... Kind of unlikely....

[Corbomite]

Just leave the fricking thing out 

Probably a good idea as no one would have the balls to fly it besides me. I know DH is scared of it.

[Corbomite]

You're right, Hexx.  That is why we should knock the Lyran's BC back to say... year 14 to coincide with the average of the rest of the races.

L-BC year 5 'p+' refit year 6 Pp refit year 7
Z-BC year -3
Z-BF year 2
I-CCY year 7
G-BC year 12
K-C7 year 14
R-KCR year 18 (no idea what else is considered a battlecruiser for the Roms)
H-OV year 17
H-OS year 19

As it is, the ship is no match for late era ships.  Give it a bit of time before late era comes out.

Besides, the most you would ever see on the board is 3  and that is if all your 14 points at that point were put into Fed BCE's... Kind of unlikely....

You forgot the I-CC out in year 5.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

quote author=Corbomite link=topic=163360519.msg1122629996#msg1122629996 date=1127918353]

As for the NCM, did some one suggest giving it a 2/3 power curve?!?!?!?

Umm, hello?! I said 2/3 move cost, 32 power. Sheesh! And I thought I was drunk! There would also be the mandatory loss of 100% HET down to 83%.

LOL.... I like 36 power & .85 better.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

You're right, Hexx.  That is why we should knock the Lyran's BC back to say... year 14 to coincide with the average of the rest of the races.

L-BC year 5 'p+' refit year 6 Pp refit year 7
Z-BC year -3
Z-BF year 2
I-CCY year 7
G-BC year 12
K-C7 year 14
R-KCR year 18 (no idea what else is considered a battlecruiser for the Roms)
H-OV year 17
H-OS year 19

As it is, the ship is no match for late era ships.  Give it a bit of time before late era comes out.

Besides, the most you would ever see on the board is 3  and that is if all your 14 points at that point were put into Fed BCE's... Kind of unlikely....

You forgot the I-CC out in year 5.

Ooops....

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Just leave the fricking thing out 

Probably a good idea as no one would have the balls to fly it besides me. I know DH is scared of it.

I would if given the mid era choice.  For late era... that really depends on what I was up against... I would see myself disengaging a lot.

[Corbomite]

Well I'll admit it would definitely be better with an escort. Some HDW or something like it would do quite nicely I'd think.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Well I'll admit it would definitely be better with an escort. Some HDW or something like it would do quite nicely I'd think.

Yeah, but you can never be sure if you will always have that escort.

[Corbomite]

Well gee, that's what makes the game fun... I thought.

[Hexx]

I'd just like to point out that despite Bear's irrational
and alcohol fueled rant, the Lyran's BCH actually does come out in 17.
The ship he's referring to is a Battlecruiser, much like a D7 is a battlecruiser.
Ours is just a little bit better.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Do you really consider the BCE a BCH?!?!?

Hell, bump it to the DN class for all I care... in some instances it is referred to as a battleship.

[Hexx]

So Dizzy's trying to use a battleship?

Cheesy bastige

[KBFKrotz]

You want to see the F-BCE used?  Bring it out in say...  year 10 (4 years before the BCG)

Change the phaser arcs (especially that ph3 mount) and give it a launch rate of 2, but drop the shields to BCG/F/J level.

Leave the rest alone.

It was supposed to be an experimental test bed.  Use it that way, as the test bed that leads to the Fed's BCH's.

It is a mixed blessing on power.  Plenty of it, but that 1.25 MC....yeesh...

And with the limitations on capital ships, you won't see many of them on the board at a time anyways.

She still turns like a pig and somewhat equal on rear fire power (only 4 phasers1's and 2 photons) compared to the other Fed BC's (6 rear firing ph1's )

It will do better against mid era drones and the cheesiness of mid era and give the Feds a decent slot ship between the CC+ (which is long in the tooth at this point) & DNL (I am gonna assume they won't build any DN's or DN+'s).  And it also gives the Feds a viable ship against the I-CCY that isn't a dread.

What, would somebody soup(cheese)-up a K-D7T to be able to take it on?

Dizzy, you are (to my understanding) one of the best PvPers out there...why are you championing making ships that can run around the map all day while spewing magic photons out their arses? Not only would that be a "low" tactic when flying against plasma-dependent races, but it also seems to legitimize running away and not fighting...except now one can slowly bleed the following ship out too. Is it worth it?

These ships should be relegated to the p00h-heap of SFC history, along with the L-PFE, K-E3Y, L-EGO, and maybe even stuff like the R-PRA (I'll get in trouble for that one, I'm sure).

[Dizzy]

I'm doing the coalition a favor. Trust me, Krotz. And w/o my improvements, the BCE would still be just as capable vs the Roms. I didnt change anything in that respect, cept a 2x shuttle launch rate, which imo it should have always had.

I think you have just never heard of the BCE b4 this thread... So to you, I made it up. I did not. Its always been there running 31 spewing photons out its arse. Where have you been?

[FPF-DieHard]

There is a D&T with an X-Refti in the list . . . .

[Dfly]

I actually like the idea of leaving the ship as it was(except for the phaser3 arcs) and bringing it out much earlier.

[Dizzy]

I actually like the idea of leaving the ship as it was(except for the phaser3 arcs) and bringing it out much earlier.

You cant. It would pwn the rommies. It comes out when it comes out. Which is... 18, same year the KCR comes out. 

[KBFKrotz]

I'm doing the coalition a favor. Trust me, Krotz. And w/o my improvements, the BCE would still be just as capable vs the Roms. I didnt change anything in that respect, cept a 2x shuttle launch rate, which imo it should have always had.

I think you have just never heard of the BCE b4 this thread... So to you, I made it up. I did not. Its always been there running 31 spewing photons out its arse. Where have you been?

"Making" was a poor choice of words on my part...popularizing is more on target.

I am at least vaguely familiar with that...thing <intonation like the Imperial officer regarding Chewie on the detention level>...I assumed the phaser arcs you improved were the FAL/FAR rather than the LS/RS. I'm sorry, but like my avatar may imply, I am something of a radical conservative, and generally believe the Taldren TMP-ships should be repeatedly smashed and broken upon the Galactic Boundary Border until they are naught but a bad memory, like when there was talk of giving photons +3 eccm back in the long, long ago.

[Dfly]

I actually like the idea of leaving the ship as it was(except for the phaser3 arcs) and bringing it out much earlier.

You cant. It would pwn the rommies. It comes out when it comes out. Which is... 18, same year the KCR comes out. 

And I guess no ship comes out a bit earlier than others and actuallly pwn some race or other?    I guess if it did come out earlier then a race (other than Roms) would step up to the plate to face it.

[Dizzy]

I guess if it did come out earlier then a race (other than Roms) would step up to the plate to face it.

Dont guess for me. Problem is that when they dont step up, guess who gets stepped on?

[KBFKrotz]

I actually like the idea of leaving the ship as it was(except for the phaser3 arcs) and bringing it out much earlier.

You cant. It would pwn the rommies. It comes out when it comes out. Which is... 18, same year the KCR comes out. 

And I guess no ship comes out a bit earlier than others and actuallly pwn some race or other?    I guess if it did come out earlier then a race (other than Roms) would step up to the plate to face it.

It's not quite the same thing as a L-BCP or I-CC being out before other BCHs...these ships won't do all that much to you while running away (except for maybe the odd over-the-shoulder plasma from the I-CC). The BCE can shoot overloaded photons into a following plasma ship before the plasma boat is even in effective range for s-torps. And unlike ships relying on FA photons, the BCE won't need to give up that range gap until it hits a border or terrain. It's not like there are no other ships that could do such a thing, but HDWs are rather more fragile than BCHs. Now, if there were such a thing as magic plasma bolts, well...I'll just say it wouldn't be much of problem...at all