Topic: R-NHK vs F-CB  (Read 25706 times)

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Offline Seanner

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R-NHK vs F-CB
« on: September 06, 2005, 07:00:54 pm »
Yeah so the friday of two weeks ago involved me being trained by the very best.  Before you reply, I'm not talking to you Hexx.  Now then, the matchups were CB vs K-DW7 I believe and then CB vs NHK me taking every side in this.

CB vs DW7 seems ok

vs NHK...um speed 31 means about .2 power to recharge phasers unless you do something stupid like have no weasels or lowering shields because of HK.  So you cannot phaser boat, so you lose.  The best I could do was stay as far as possible and run NEAR 31 and use batts to use phasers enough to keep away, eventually having to HET out of there.  Eventually I was able to get away or weaseled or something...I remember chasing HIM with 4 overloads at some point and weaseling many a torp..eventually losing by mistakenly taking an S in the rear empty shield instead of either having another weasel ready or turning slightly....was pretty dumb on my part.

In any case, should not the NHK completely destroy the CB?  Once you get near a corner, the NHK can simply launch a pseudo, which if that fails, can launch one real to force me to turn further into the corner and then its game over.  The CB just doesn't have enough discretionary power.

The best case that I can come up with is trying some kind of range 8 overload shot (charging up the HET so that it activates JUST after firing) and running the return fire out as much as possible, or launching a probe and weaseling.  In which case the romulan is best launching one early torp (ballet) to convince me I should turn away while at the same time preventing me from weaseling his whole torpedo array, in which case I semi-run it out then try for range 8 again but which I won't be able to because of the terrible power.

Essentially, I can't run, and will take large amounts of torpedo damage, so the best bet is to get as close as possible, alpha strike, and try to probe and weasel the exact second he fires (no weasel if it's fake).  Maybe doing this enough times will net enough internals to win before I run out of shuttles, or before I take internals from him string launching so I can't weasel too well.

Oh I almost forgot the key, hit and running the big torps.

Anybody have any tactical advice in this matchup??  I'd say if you are the Fed, run off the map.

EDIT: In fact I don't know how much excess power the NHK has, but as you can't run and shoot from it really doesn't matter, as you still have to avoid plasma.

Offline Dfly

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2005, 07:19:58 pm »
I dont know the CB fed enough for an answer to that situation, but in the case of the Klink C7, in my experience the C7 wins almost every time.

EDIT:  shoulda mentioned the C7 vs NHK

Offline Farfarer

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2005, 08:37:09 pm »
In NHK against one Fed, he stayed away until his whole bay was aglow with WW.  Then it was a question of how close I would come to try and get plasma damage, seeing when he would void weasels, firing again etc. Of course, Photons can'r be decoyed ( notwithstanding ECM effects ), so he can hit back.

If he pooches it by the time the weasels are gone, he leaves ( not unlike a droner).  If it has been even, he hangs around - better shield regen etc.

I loathe the speed 31 ritual - I just leave the map - it is a game , not real (starship) life.  Even if I  'know' I can win by following a tried and true high speed doctrine, if it will take an hour - forget it.

762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2005, 08:47:13 pm »
You don't have to do 31 if you knock his front down. A good proxy shot on his #1 will set you up for the running battle.

After he starts taking internals through the front you can slow a tad to let your capacitor charge, as he will be forced into an oblique pursuit.

If he keeps giving you the down front, use mines and drones to make him pay.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2005, 09:12:53 pm »
Yeah so the friday of two weeks ago involved me being trained by the very best.  Before you reply, I'm not talking to you Hexx.  Now then, the matchups were CB vs K-DW7 I believe and then CB vs NHK me taking every side in this.


Hexx was busy that night following the Yellow-brick road, I had to do . . .

CB vs DW7 seems ok


One of theose "perfect" fights thaty give me a boner and keeps me playing this game

vs NHK...um speed 31 means about .2 power to recharge phasers unless you do something stupid like have no weasels or lowering shields because of HK.  So you cannot phaser boat, so you lose.  The best I could do was stay as far as possible and run NEAR 31 and use batts to use phasers enough to keep away, eventually having to HET out of there.  Eventually I was able to get away or weaseled or something...I remember chasing HIM with 4 overloads at some point and weaseling many a torp..eventually losing by mistakenly taking an S in the rear empty shield instead of either having another weasel ready or turning slightly....was pretty dumb on my part.


You CAN phaser boat in a 38 power ship, you just can't load everything at 31.   You need to damage his fronts enough so you don't have to run at perpetual 31, if he cannot chase in a straight line you can afford to go a little slower.   The CB has 8 labs, it's shield come back much better than the NHK (whcih preety much stay red) so you can affford to trade damage.   

In any case, should not the NHK completely destroy the CB?  Once you get near a corner, the NHK can simply launch a pseudo, which if that fails, can launch one real to force me to turn further into the corner and then its game over.  The CB just doesn't have enough discretionary power.


Don't get caught in a corner!   Pay atention to the map, this is doable in a 1v1.   A 2v2 is a auto-win for Plasma on the Evil Dave maps though.

The CB has 38 power, the NHK has 42.   If the NHK has Plasma's Held (2 Points Each) and the CB has it's Photons off, the AVAILABLE power is the same.

The best case that I can come up with is trying some kind of range 8 overload shot (charging up the HET so that it activates JUST after firing) and running the return fire out as much as possible, or launching a probe and weaseling.  In which case the romulan is best launching one early torp (ballet) to convince me I should turn away while at the same time preventing me from weaseling his whole torpedo array, in which case I semi-run it out then try for range 8 again but which I won't be able to because of the terrible power.


DO NOT use overloads unless he is castling.   You simply do not have the power to hold them, match EW, and move fast enough to avoid plasma.

Overloads can bust a castle up nice but stick to proxies when engaging plasma.

Essentially, I can't run, and will take large amounts of torpedo damage, so the best bet is to get as close as possible, alpha strike, and try to probe and weasel the exact second he fires (no weasel if it's fake).  Maybe doing this enough times will net enough internals to win before I run out of shuttles, or before I take internals from him string launching so I can't weasel too well.


You CAN run.  I'll show you again some time on IP games.   See the films below.

The WW "bait and switch" trick can work but is not reliable, should not be your "Plan A " tactic.

Oh I almost forgot the key, hit and running the big torps.


Not worth it in D2, 10 Spares is enough and you risk getting captured

Anybody have any tactical advice in this matchup??  I'd say if you are the Fed, run off the map.


PM me when you want to do more IP games.

Not all of these matchups are versus the NHK, but they all show what the CB can do against Plasma:

http://67.85.119.36:9000/images/films/Animator_KRCS.rec
http://67.85.119.36:9000/images/films/CB_versus_KWR_and_Mauler.rec
http://67.85.119.36:9000/images/films/Dizzy_RHK.rec
http://67.85.119.36:9000/images/films/EE_NHK.rec
http://67.85.119.36:9000/images/films/Ronnin_KRCS.rec
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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2005, 09:49:45 pm »
Actually I think the CLC is better for fighting the NHK (I know you were all dying to know my opinion)

Kinda like DH said, use proxies at range, Ia ctually wouldn't even let him below rng 12 if possible,
sounds dumb (but then that's why I say it)- if you can keep him far enough away you don't need to constantly maintian
spd 31.
CB's lab regen is... annoying to say the least, I wouldn't worry about taking a plasma hit off of a shiled or two if
it gives you a decent shot.

Oh -and don't always rely on the probes, they're not 100% and can be fooled.

Really everything would be fine if those silly plasma races would just leanr to use real weapons.
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Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2005, 10:00:47 pm »
Ok thanks to all resident experts for replying :)
DieHard you ARE the best, my comment was aimed at Hexx knowing he would *assume* I was talking to him ;)

Farfarer, that's kinda what I was thinking, but others seem to go with the phaser boat strategy as the later replies indicate.  I agree with the benefits of the shorter game, though.  Of course, I don't mind longer ones too much anyway since I'm still relatively new to this game and it's fun no matter what.

762 and DieHard I shall revert back to proxying and phaser-boating, unless...

...Hexx, are you suggesting then that it's worth an overload pass to take a hit on a side shield which will regen shortly enough anyway?  Exactly what type of "decent shot" are you looking for?

Lastly DieHard, as always your continued help is much appreciated and I would love future IP games later this week.  As for now I shall watch the demos.  BTW I thought I had dropped photons...I really thought it had almost no power beyond maintaining max speed, seems I screwed up there.

wait one more thing, I'll have to test out the CLC vs the (stupid) computer (who will probably alpha pseudo torp strike me right when the scenario opens)

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2005, 10:04:02 pm »
Yeah so the friday of two weeks ago involved me being trained by the very best.


 :rofl: :P  ;)



The NHK and RHK are considered Heavy Battle Cruisers (barely by my standards) so fighting them in a CB should be a bit of an uphill battle. With that said, I have beaten NHK's in a F-NAL. Try a CB against a R-KRCS instead.



Offline Bonk

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2005, 10:15:32 pm »
I agree with Corbomite, poor match-up. The R-NHK is nearly invincible in the hands of an experienced Rom player. You'd have a much better chance in a fed BCH, but they are so deadly slow while the R-NHK runs around at full speed arming all its plasma with full EW...  ::). You have to carry a big stick and catch the R-NHK captain sleeping to have a chance at beating it.

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2005, 10:22:31 pm »
Ok thanks to all resident experts for replying :)
DieHard you ARE the best, my comment was aimed at Hexx knowing he would *assume* I was talking to him ;)

Farfarer, that's kinda what I was thinking, but others seem to go with the phaser boat strategy as the later replies indicate.  I agree with the benefits of the shorter game, though.  Of course, I don't mind longer ones too much anyway since I'm still relatively new to this game and it's fun no matter what.

762 and DieHard I shall revert back to proxying and phaser-boating, unless...

...Hexx, are you suggesting then that it's worth an overload pass to take a hit on a side shield which will regen shortly enough anyway?  Exactly what type of "decent shot" are you looking for?

Lastly DieHard, as always your continued help is much appreciated and I would love future IP games later this week.  As for now I shall watch the demos.  BTW I thought I had dropped photons...I really thought it had almost no power beyond maintaining max speed, seems I screwed up there.

wait one more thing, I'll have to test out the CLC vs the (stupid) computer (who will probably alpha pseudo torp strike me right when the scenario opens)

First- I'll point out DH  likes the CB better, and he is (for some reason) believed to be one of the better Fed pilots (I've always assumed some sort of group dementia but..)
I just prefer the CLC as it turns at 3.It's (imho) the best ship as it combines a decent turn mode with a pretty good power curve and the ability to soak up (some) damage. It's a flying style that (all jokes aside) either works very well or I get killed really really fast Which is the way I actually like my fights, I hate long drawn out fights that don't seem to be going anywhere .
< space for the smart ass remarks ..>

And yes- (again imho) it can be worth it to take a plasma volley (as long as you can catch it on at least two shields) to get a normal photon volley on one of his, an OL volley can pretty much win the game. That being said- if you screw up the timing (which I of course have done) you eat alot of plasma for little return.

Really it depends- if you have the patience for the long drawn out battles that DH prefers, use the CB, if you want to get into a turning close range knife fight use the CLC, - it will be over alot quicker, one way or the other.


I've managed to take out NHK's in CLC's..  and as I'm sure someone will point out- if I can do it..

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Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2005, 10:25:25 pm »
Theres one other issue that the stupid computer brought up flying around at speed 8 with a lot of reinforcement apparently...proxies do zero damage.  Lets say they are almost stopped with full reinforcement... a range 12.99 alpha if it hit with all proxies or two normals would do 16 + some phaser damage = zero...

EDIT: Hexx you got a replay of that?  ..if you can do it, with 50 yrs hard training I can possibly do it.  HA!  Just kidding, next d2 campaign watch out for Seanner...

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2005, 10:33:35 pm »


The NHK and RHK are considered Heavy Battle Cruisers (barely by my standards) so fighting them in a CB should be a bit of an uphill battle.



Are they really BCHs?   The Command rating is a 9, BCHs have a 10 and I always thought that was the deciding factor.  If they are BCHs by SFB standards, they are weak.

I know the Sunhawk is an NHK with 12 fighters (8 in SFC) and IS considered the Romulan BCV.

EDIT:   Just check the SITs, both the R-NHK and the F-BCF/G cost 10 EP to build.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2005, 10:34:30 pm »
I've managed to take out NHK's in CLC's..  and as I'm sure someone will point out- if I can do it..


The AI doesn't count <snicker>

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2005, 10:36:11 pm »
I agree with Corbomite, poor match-up. The R-NHK is nearly invincible in the hands of an experienced Rom player. You'd have a much better chance in a fed BCH, but they are so deadly slow while the R-NHK runs around at full speed arming all its plasma with full EW...  ::). You have to carry a big stick and catch the R-NHK captain sleeping to have a chance at beating it.

No, it's not that much of a mis-match.   I'd give the NHK a SLIGHT advantage but that's about it.

Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2005, 10:38:44 pm »
Theres one other issue that the stupid computer brought up flying around at speed 8 with a lot of reinforcement apparently...proxies do zero damage.  Lets say they are almost stopped with full reinforcement... a range 12.99 alpha if it hit with all proxies or two normals would do 16 + some phaser damage = zero...



The CLC CANNOT break a Castling Rom, a CB has a much better chance of doing so. 

The Rom would have to be really fooish to allow a running battle against a CLC which has a better power curve unless the NHK captains downgraded his S torps.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2005, 10:48:36 pm »


The NHK and RHK are considered Heavy Battle Cruisers (barely by my standards) so fighting them in a CB should be a bit of an uphill battle.



Are they really BCHs?   The Command rating is a 9, BCHs have a 10 and I always thought that was the deciding factor.  If they are BCHs by SFB standards, they are weak.

I know the Sunhawk is an NHK with 12 fighters (8 in SFC) and IS considered the Romulan BCV.

EDIT:   Just check the SITs, both the R-NHK and the F-BCF/G cost 10 EP to build.


Like I said, not by my standards. The 42 power and their hulls make them BCH class, but their light Phaser suites puts them at the lower end. The Cloak is the thing that puts them up in the 192 BPV slot and therefore BCH worthy.

Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2005, 10:51:33 pm »
So is it simply considered rude to castle with an NHK then or am I missing something?  How are you supposed to beat an uncrackable ship with a big alpha?

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2005, 10:57:22 pm »
So is it simply considered rude to castle with an NHK then or am I missing something? 

You should have been here for GW2   ;D



How are you supposed to beat an uncrackable ship with a big alpha?

Very carefully  ;D

Easiest way is to simply never close, the "twat" will eventually get bored and "come out of the closet."
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2005, 10:57:57 pm »
So is it simply considered rude to castle with an NHK then or am I missing something?  How are you supposed to beat an uncrackable ship with a big alpha?

Brass balls. Now that is something DH can help you with.

762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2005, 10:59:56 pm »
They are command cruisers, not BCH's.

Mind you they are very good command cruisers.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2005, 11:01:47 pm »
They are command cruisers, not BCH's.

Mind you they are very good command cruisers.

Someone didn't read their SFC 1 manual.

762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2005, 11:03:53 pm »
Someone didn't read module R4, and obviously never played F&E.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2005, 11:13:05 pm »
Yes, yes we all know you don't give a damn about the game you are actually playing. You don't have to keep bringing it up. I don't give rats ass about SFB or F&E. I care about what the rules and instructions that were included in the game I bought said, not the game it was somewhat based on.

762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2005, 11:13:42 pm »
So I guess the H-CHC is a heavy battlecruiser then?

I always find it amusing to hear from those who swear off SFB as being irrelevant, and follow the gospel of Taldren instead.

Have you been enjoying SFC3 Corb?

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2005, 11:17:45 pm »
Films are so over rated... hehe. So I fought a CB in an RHK? I remember killing a CX in an RHK... Dunna like the the RHK. One shot wonder.

I ever tell you about the time an NHK pwnd an NCL+, a CB AND a CVS+ all in the same mission? hehe. Tell Jeff and Wanderer I miss them, DH. ;)

EDIT: Oh, and no, the CB never has a chance vs the NHK, both captains skill being equal.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2005, 11:17:59 pm »
Will you guys kiss and make up? 
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2005, 11:21:55 pm »
Films are so over rated... hehe. So I fought a CB in an RHK? I remember killing a CX in an RHK... Dunna like the the RHK. One shot wonder.

I ever tell you about the time an NHK pwnd an NCL+, a CB AND a CVS+ all in the same mission? hehe. Tell Jeff and Wanderer I miss them, DH. ;)

Who lost a CX to an RHK?  That is embarrasing,   almost as bad as getting towed into a rock, not that that has ever happened  <whistles>

The films were posted for any reason other than instructional value, not smack talk.  If I wanted to post a film for that purposes it would involve Hexx :P
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2005, 11:42:31 pm »

EDIT: Oh, and no, the CB never has a chance vs the NHK, both captains skill being equal.

Cool, can I use this excuse?   ;D
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Offline FPF-Wanderer

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2005, 11:44:38 pm »
I ever tell you about the time an NHK pwnd an NCL+, a CB AND a CVS+ all in the same mission? hehe. Tell Jeff and Wanderer I miss them, DH. ;)

I've always found it vastly amusing that every time you bring up this battle (which is often) you always fail to mention that instead of the three of us jumping you and running you out of the hex as we should have, we decided to be good sports and fight you individually.  Not that I'm taking anything away from your skill, you did beat each of us, but you beat us individually.   Just wanted to clarify.  ;D  Oh, and I miss you too. ;)
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Offline FA Frey XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2005, 11:47:17 pm »
 :popcorn:
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762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2005, 11:50:18 pm »
Details, details.

Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2005, 12:05:11 am »
Those films you put up seemed weak on the romulan's parts in that they weren't aggressive enough.  As far as I can tell, there are two modes of flying: chasing or running.  Faster firing, weaker ships run, slower firing, stronger ships chase.  The running ship attempts to weaken the chasing ship enough to go in for a battle pass and come out ok, especially now that it'll be recharged faster than the opponent.  The chasing ship tries to take the volleys on different shields so that it really isn't hurt at all for the critical battle pass (and so merely wins outright, unless it's your average Fed who by definition has below average photon hits).

So with this philosophy laid down, the key is that the running ship MUST be able to weaken the chaser, or it's just a worse ship.

At speed 31 and a weasel held, the CB has 2 power to charge phasers.  This is with no photons held, so I again resort to my earlier thinking that the CB shouldn't win.  There's no way it's shields charge fast enough to make up for getting 2 phaser shots a turn.  Yes it starts full and doesn't fire full amounts each turn, and has batteries, and so in fact lasts for a good number of volleys, enough to wear down 2 front shields on the NHK, but then you're out of energy save for 2 shots a turn, at which point I'll gladly take a seemingly large # of internals per turn for the couple turns it takes to completely corner you.  Maybe I'll lose a phaser, an F, a shuttle bay, and two power, and you'll lose..hmm...remaining 20+30+30, string launched with pseudos means probably only missing 30, plus phasers probably gives a volley of like 80 or something, should all hit the same shield cause of the weasel (subtract 30 for shield lets say), giving you 50 internals (minus 25 because you almost ran a torp out and phasers fired under a wild weasel +2 shift lets say, for 25 internals), some of which will be power and make it hard for you to chase while charging photons, leaving me free to rearm for the win.  This can't possibly be too far off from the truth now that we've played a couple games.  It's VERY hard to run away from someone going 31 on a fairly small map.  You can do all the internals to the NHK you want, but if it has any weapons left, you'll take even more in return and then be chasing after a full strength rear shield with no power to chase with...

If the NHK makes no mistakes, it can't possibly be possibly possible for there to be even a slight possibility of the CB winning.  That's why I'll say again you may as well shoot overloads early on with hit and run on his torps, then weasel and hope for the best.

Again I would love to play and practice and test more later this week!!

EDIT: I hope this sort of arguing isn't bothering anyone..I'd hate to be the annoying know-it-all new guy that in fact knows nothing..I was hoping this is interesting.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 12:16:58 am by Seanner »

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2005, 12:11:15 am »
So I guess the H-CHC is a heavy battlecruiser then?

I always find it amusing to hear from those who swear off SFB as being irrelevant, and follow the gospel of Taldren instead.

Have you been enjoying SFC3 Corb?



No, but I have been enjoying putting your panties in a bunch.

IIRC, Dennis Greene wrote up the fleet descriptions in SFC1 and we all know he didn't know a thing did he?

I always find it amusing that the SFB fanboys seem to forget that 50% - 60% of SFB isn't included in this game and none of F&E is at all. Play the game you bought and save the wet dreams for your pillow OK?

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2005, 12:11:57 am »
Oh, and I miss you too. ;)
Where u hidin, ho?

Yeah, I do mention it a lot. I'll never let any of you ever live it down or forget it. hehe

NHK rulz

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2005, 12:17:26 am »

I always find it amusing that the SFB fanboys seem to forget that 50% - 60% of SFB isn't included in this game and none of F&E is at all. Play the game you bought and save the wet dreams for your pillow OK?

Your point?  80% (at least) of SFB isn't included in any SFB scenario I play either.  Why?  Because the game is freakin' huge.

Nevertheless, 90% (at least) of SFC is SFB.  You can't have the former without the latter.

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2005, 12:18:37 am »


Again I would love to play and practice and test more later this week!!

EDIT: I hope this sort of arguing isn't bothering anyone..I'd hate to be the annoying know-it-all new guy that in fact knows nothing..I was hoping this is interesting.

Thursdya night?

Not annoying, you are grasping the initial concepts very well.  The part about the runner needing to damage the chaser is dead on.  One of the reason's why Fast Cruisers are cheese.
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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2005, 12:20:14 am »
It could have been Dennis or Scruno or Jinxx. Whoever it was got it wrong.

And dude, if you really think that it's 50-60% you need to pick up the rulebook.

Or, better yet, just look at how absurd the Taldren creations are. Need I mention:

Advanced era
SFC3
R-SPZ
F-NCM
F-BCE

Anyway I suspect you already know that, and are just trying to unbunch your own panties.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2005, 01:40:26 am by 762_XC »

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2005, 12:35:25 am »
Your point?  80% (at least) of SFB isn't included in any SFB scenario I play either. 


At least you have the option to use them. You can't use what you don't have and SFC doesn't have them. It always comes down to "Well in SFB you could do this" or "In SFB it was handled this way". Well, that isn't the way SFC handles "it". It works the way Taldren was paid to design it and that's what it is. Wishing it was otherwise or force modding compromises into it just to see some pretty models of shps, races and functions we don't have and likely never will doesn't make it SFB.

Offline FA Frey XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2005, 12:50:20 am »
The MECHANICS of SFB were used to create this game, yes, so 762 is right.

THIS GAME is NOT SFB - yes, so Corbo is right.

This thread is getting full of panties in a bunch - FREY is right.

 :woot: :woot: :woot:

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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2005, 06:05:27 am »
Theres one other issue that the stupid computer brought up flying around at speed 8 with a lot of reinforcement apparently...proxies do zero damage.  Lets say they are almost stopped with full reinforcement... a range 12.99 alpha if it hit with all proxies or two normals would do 16 + some phaser damage = zero...



The CLC CANNOT break a Castling Rom, a CB has a much better chance of doing so. 

The Rom would have to be really fooish to allow a running battle against a CLC which has a better power curve unless the NHK captains downgraded his S torps.

Sure it can

4xPhotons 8 Ph1's

4 Photons 10 Ph1's

Both have 4 shuttles and the CLC actually has (very marginally) superior shields.

CB has the advantage that it can take a hit better if the pilot makes a mistake.
CLC's a better ship though.
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Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2005, 06:30:45 am »

Nevertheless, 90% (at least) of SFC is SFB.  You can't have the former without the latter.

-S'Cipio

Not exactly correct, the former couldn't have been developed without the later, but now that we have it, any of the later can be tossed into the wastebasket at will if it doesn't fit.  ;) 

Offline C-Los

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2005, 07:23:39 am »
Playing the game the way it came out of the box...... Hummmm >>>>>

Interesting concept....MB we should try it sometime !!


 :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:
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Offline Grim

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2005, 08:17:59 am »
Playing the game the way it came out of the box...... Hummmm >>>>>

Interesting concept....MB we should try it sometime !!


 :rofl:       :rofl:       :rofl:

lol Carlos

Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2005, 09:12:56 am »
If the Fed pilot is willing to risk his ship by being "Bold and Stupid" (tm)*, he can win quite handily against a R-NHK.


*"Bold and Stupid" is trademarked by Dick Hertz, Inc.

DH, why is it that when ever we decide to get 'Bold and Stupid' we end up winning?!?!?!?

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Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2005, 09:15:32 am »
#1 Frey is right :)

#2 Thursday night it is!

#3 Hexx must duel DH in a CLC vs NHK so we can settle this once and for all.

#4 I suspect Hexx won't pull it off, but I've become so amazing recently that I'm willing to try it in a mere frigate with 50-60 less BPV.  I'll go ahead and rematch with an F-XFE.  With only ELEVEN power at speed 31, it cannot possibly hope to fire overloaded X phasers every turn forever while shooting its As as well.  If you ever got to launch plasma at it, I would then have to waste further power on those stupid short range GATTLINGS which waste it 4 times a turn.  Not to mention, even as a frigate it still doesn't have a turn mode of 1.  At least its shields are ok.  But I'll TRY anyways.

[/sarcasm]

Yeah so I've been looking through the X ships in more detail and noticed they are out of whack.  My favorites would have to be the XCBs, with up to 6,000 pts of heavy weapon damage + 8000 pts of weird phasers + 300 pts reinforcement with 40 ECM.  And the useless ships still can't break speed 31.

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2005, 09:21:35 am »
Usually DH plays by the book and wins. But when he is out-shipped... Many peeps learn bold and stupid from me. It's one of many 'Dizzy's Bag of Stupid Tricks' stunts, guaranteed to kill get you killed quicker than you can say lickety split when you mess up even slightly... which is why most peeps don't use them. But some people just cant see it coming and somehow get pwnd horribly... :D

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2005, 09:36:46 am »
Or, better yet, just look at how absurd the Taldren creations are.



Oh yes, we all know there is nothing absurd in SFB!


Advanced era - Produced for OP to add some new features in order to sell a game that was already on the market in another form - much like Heavy War Destroyers in SFB and several other worthless modules.

SFC3 - Only one word needed here - Activision.

R-SPZ - It has short ranged weapons and no Cloak. If you get owned by that you just suck.

F-NCM - A tribute to the show that gave the impetus for the entire idea of ST gaming. Its not a bad ship either, flown correctly of course.

F-BCE - Same as above. What's the matter? Rear firing Photons give you nightmares? The D7T must make you crap your pants.

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2005, 11:35:29 am »

EDIT: I hope this sort of arguing isn't bothering anyone..I'd hate to be the annoying know-it-all new guy that in fact knows nothing..I was hoping this is interesting.

You've asked intelligent and polite questions.
You've opened a discussion on tactics.
And you've started a classic SFB/SFC flame war!

Woo hoo!   :woot: :woot: :woot: :rwoot: :rwoot: :rwoot:

That's all three requirements!  You're in the club!  You are now TRULY a valued member of our community!

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2005, 01:15:19 pm »
Usually DH plays by the book and wins. But when he is out-shipped... Many peeps learn bold and stupid from me. It's one of many 'Dizzy's Bag of Stupid Tricks' stunts, guaranteed to kill get you killed quicker than you can say lickety split when you mess up even slightly... which is why most peeps don't use them. But some people just cant see it coming and somehow get pwnd horribly... :D

I will admit, I did learn "bold and stupid" from Dizzy.  The "Dizzy Chasesdown" should be a mandatory tactic taught to all new pilots as it is amazing how many people fall for it.

I honestly think the only reason I get away with "Bold and Stupid" is because I am a textbook pilot so when I do this, people are not expecting it and it catches them by surprise.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2005, 01:19:48 pm »


CB has the advantage that it can take a hit better if the pilot makes a mistake.

Bingo.   If it comes to a close range knife fight against plasma, you WILL get hit by some of it and you need to be able to survive a 70 point volley without getting wrecked.   The CB can do this, CLC cannot


CLC's a better ship though.


Less fire power, less hull, no HET, dead meat against another direct-fire ship,  Hmmm,,,,,,

Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2005, 02:05:21 pm »
But it turns quicker!  ;D

Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2005, 02:17:51 pm »
They are command cruisers, not BCH's.

Mind you they are very good command cruisers.
So I guess the H-CHC is a heavy battlecruiser then?

I always find it amusing to hear from those who swear off SFB as being irrelevant, and follow the gospel of Taldren instead.

Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:
valid.  This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.

A check of the SFC 1 manual shows the NHK doesn't get much of anything outside the obvious (that it's the CC-version of the FHK).

While we're on this discussion, could someone remind me what the status of the I-CCZ is again?  Remember, it's a "measily" command cruiser, carrying a whopping 1 extra HW and 4 more power than the CA version of the same hull... ;)

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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2005, 03:33:25 pm »
But it turns quicker!  ;D

Exactly.

Therefore it's the better ship. (Although the HET is annoying)
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Offline Mog

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2005, 04:23:04 pm »
Julin, the CCZ is a BCH equivalent, one that is easily capable of destroying DNs and fully kitted-out BCVs. That one extra heavy weapon and the extra 4 power makes a huge difference in comparison to the CAZ.

As for the CLC-CB comparison, the war cruiser leaders are more fun to fly (for me at least), but as DH says, they are far weaker in terms of durability. You cannot afford to make 2 mistakes against the bigger hulls in a war cruiser.
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2005, 04:41:43 pm »
CLCs' slower regen rate seems to have gotten left out of the analysis...
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2005, 05:21:44 pm »


While we're on this discussion, could someone remind me what the status of the I-CCZ is again?  Remember, it's a "measily" command cruiser, carrying a whopping 1 extra HW and 4 more power than the CA version of the same hull... ;)

You really need to get a clue.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2005, 05:27:54 pm »

As for the CLC-CB comparison, the war cruiser leaders are more fun to fly (for me at least), but as DH says, they are far weaker in terms of durability. You cannot afford to make 2 mistakes against the bigger hulls in a war cruiser.

War Cruiser leaders WERE more fun to fly until OP+ and the Fast Cruisers/HDWs made them totally out-dated.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2005, 06:03:07 pm »
yeah, but talk about glass jaws....
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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2005, 06:19:05 pm »
While I kinda like the Fast Cruisers(  ::) ) the Heavy War Destroyers are a travesty.

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2005, 06:50:55 pm »
While I kinda like the Fast Cruisers(  ::) ) the Heavy War Destroyers are a travesty.



I wouldn't call them a "Travesty," just a little too much.   Throw in the X DDs and things kinda even out among the races after 2282 in the small ship catagories.

Fast cruisers are a much more "complicated" issue . . .
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Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2005, 08:17:53 pm »


While we're on this discussion, could someone remind me what the status of the I-CCZ is again?  Remember, it's a "measily" command cruiser, carrying a whopping 1 extra HW and 4 more power than the CA version of the same hull... ;)

You really need to get a clue.

Once again, I am reminded of exactly why I don't post on the forum as much as I should...

Here I am, making the case that the R-NHK is a BCH-classed ship, and decide that, in my usual half-sarcastic / half-humouros self, to post a tounge-in-cheek remark that would illustrate the point, in that the I-CCZ is another CA-hulled BCH-classed ship.

Am I the only one that sees the smiley face I put at the end of my CCZ remark, and remembers that smileys are supposed to denote humor?

I thank you all for the generous reminder.

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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2005, 09:02:42 pm »
Julin ~ they're stupid, one has to remember (..of course you're not me so you're kinda intellectually down there as well but..)

Anyways- I honestly don't find *that* big a difference amongst the fast cruisers, they're cheesy (light) yes, but (imho) they
balance relatively well against each other.
The HDW's (again imo) are way out of balance, some are very good and some are completely useless. Although I don;t like them- I wouldn't
have an issue with them if they were somewhat balanced against each other.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2005, 09:15:53 pm »
Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:
valid.  This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.


I think I smell t00l's hemorrhoids burning.  :P

Thanks Julin.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2005, 11:03:20 pm »


While we're on this discussion, could someone remind me what the status of the I-CCZ is again?  Remember, it's a "measily" command cruiser, carrying a whopping 1 extra HW and 4 more power than the CA version of the same hull... ;)

You really need to get a clue.

Once again, I am reminded of exactly why I don't post on the forum as much as I should...

Here I am, making the case that the R-NHK is a BCH-classed ship, and decide that, in my usual half-sarcastic / half-humouros self, to post a tounge-in-cheek remark that would illustrate the point, in that the I-CCZ is another CA-hulled BCH-classed ship.

Am I the only one that sees the smiley face I put at the end of my CCZ remark, and remembers that smileys are supposed to denote humor?

I thank you all for the generous reminder.

Glad I can be of service  ;D
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2005, 11:06:12 pm »
Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:
valid.  This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.


I think I smell t00l's hemorrhoids burning.  :P

Thanks Julin.

Where does "Heavy Hawk" mean BCH?
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2005, 11:11:51 pm »
While I kinda like the Fast Cruisers(  ::) ) the Heavy War Destroyers are a travesty.



While I kinda like the Heavy War destroyers, the fast cruisers are a travesty  :P

Depends on what race you fly Hexx  ;)

Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2005, 11:13:41 pm »


Anyways- I honestly don't find *that* big a difference amongst the fast cruisers, they're cheesy (light) yes, but (imho) they
balance relatively well against each other.


LMAO

Talk about something you know Hexx, like writing a proper last will and testament before entering into PvP

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2005, 11:23:50 pm »
Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:
valid.  This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.


I think I smell t00l's hemorrhoids burning.  :P

Thanks Julin.

Where does "Heavy Hawk" mean BCH?


Are you blind? Here I'll make the important part bigger so even you can see it.


This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.

Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2005, 11:35:11 pm »
Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:
valid.  This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.


I think I smell t00l's hemorrhoids burning.  :P

Thanks Julin.

Where does "Heavy Hawk" mean BCH?


Are you blind? Here I'll make the important part bigger so even you can see it.


This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.

LMAO +1 Karma to Corbo for making an intoxicated Kzin giggle, can you do that with an SFC is NOT SFB statement  ;)

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2005, 10:36:24 am »
So it's a Command cruiser, right?    ;D
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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2005, 10:42:18 am »
So it's a Command cruiser, right?    ;D

You're such a dumbass

HEAVY HAWK

It'd be a Heavy Command Cruiser.

BTW was Corbo just being charming or are the "Heavy Hawks" actually considered BCH's?
I always though Heavy Hawk was just a designator for a ship bigger than a Firehawk, smaller than a DN.
(Course I don't have the module so..)

« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 11:53:22 am by Hexx »
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2005, 10:46:20 am »
So it's a Command cruiser, right?    ;D

You're such a dumbass

HEAVY HAWK

It'd be a Heavy Command Cruiser.


(R4.N3) Add "SunHawk (R4.82)" and "RegalHawk (R4.90)" to the Heavy Hawk list.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2005, 12:17:10 pm »

So it's a Command cruiser, right?    ;D
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2005, 03:30:42 pm »
Boy, the contrition around here is just amazing.  ::)

IMO it is a CCH, however, since in SFB the KCR is conjectural and the KHK is limited by number and Shock rules, I think they consider them BCH's for purposes of build economics and command functions where applicable.

BTW, apology accepted.  :P

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2005, 03:44:21 pm »
Boy, the contrition around here is just amazing.  ::)

IMO it is a CCH, however, since in SFB the KCR is conjectural and the KHK is limited by number and Shock rules, I think they consider them BCH's for purposes of build economics and command functions where applicable.

BTW, apology accepted.  :P

It does cost 10 EP to build, same as a C7 or a BCF.   Then again a CC costs 9 and a "normal" CA cost 8.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FA Frey XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2005, 04:50:47 pm »
Corbo, while being a real fokker sometimes you are still a damned funny fokker.[/size][/color]

<snicker>

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Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2005, 05:00:31 pm »
What time shall we "dance" tonight?  I recommend between 10-12, but you have a say as well.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2005, 05:03:00 pm »
What time shall we "dance" tonight?  I recommend between 10-12, but you have a say as well.

10 sounds good, I should have my PC fixed by then.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2005, 05:58:59 pm »
Wooord up.

Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2005, 06:05:19 pm »

So it's a Command cruiser, right?    ;D


Could I recommend you get a clue there yourself...  :D

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Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2005, 06:15:34 pm »
So it's a Command cruiser, right?    ;D

You're such a dumbass

HEAVY HAWK

It'd be a Heavy Command Cruiser.

BTW was Corbo just being charming or are the "Heavy Hawks" actually considered BCH's?
I always though Heavy Hawk was just a designator for a ship bigger than a Firehawk, smaller than a DN.
(Course I don't have the module so..)



Actually, the Firehawk and all associated variants (Nova- Flambe- Royal- Regal- Thunder- Sun- Super- Killer- Peregrine etc. etc.) are of the "Heavy Hawk" vintage.

The main reason for that is that they provide information on the base hull without any modules, and each one of these ships (except maybe the maulers) can be pared down to the original / identical hull...

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762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2005, 07:34:49 pm »
BCH = command rating 10
CC/CCH = command rating 9

nuff said.

And yes, the CCZ is technically a command cruiser, although it can kill most battlecruisers.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2005, 09:35:18 pm »
Corbo, while being a real fokker sometimes you are still a damned funny fokker.[/size][/color]

<snicker>

 :popcorn:


I love you too boss.  :-*

Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #83 on: September 09, 2005, 12:09:00 am »
Well the debate is over.  Seanner blew up Dizzy's CB with an NHK (due in no small part to continuous coaching by DieHard...you could say he was flying ;))  Nevertheless, this simple fact proves the superiority of the NHK, as Seanner is possibly the worst pilot ever.  Probably the highlight of the night was when I took a huge plasma hit (when we switched sides) because I had charged with a scatter pack and overloads trying to get lucky internals vs the Rom...to find that I'd used up my shuttle bay and so could not weasel away the torps.  Which I later was told doesn't work anyway, not to mention I did zero internals because I fired into a shift.  Sigh...  So if someone this dumb can win given an NHK, I would argue it must be the ship.

For the record, besides blowing up my Fed, Dizzy then slaughtered me 3 more times with a K-D7C vs my Lord Bishop CC thing.

Ok new tactics discussion:
K-D7C vs LBCC (3 hornetIIs)

As far as I could tell, hellbore dance = automatic win.  Everytime I lost I turned too far towards and started losing shields to T-bombs and scatterpacks and so on.  Since the 2 HBs can be fired over the shoulder, the range can be kept open all day.  I'm positive this analysis is completely wrong because the disruptors + phasers should do way more damage to my rear shield and I should rack up internals quicker, implying that I should use fusions and HET and blast away if he chases like that...but then it was mentioned that the Klink can tractor me outside of good fusion range.  I could repel I suppose.

Actually I thought fusions + gattlings were what decided tactics and he should run from ME, but the thing is that hellbores reload much too slow to be chasing someone at high speed... and the fusions don't instantly win the game should he come in for a pass after you shoot hellbores, and I often lost a gattling before getting close enough.  It really just seems that with the slower loading yet excellent long range weapons *I* should be the one running and shooting over the shoulder, and not even bother arming the fusion.

This game is too hard!

Surely someone knows how this battle should be fought??

P.S. Thanks again to all who flew!!

762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2005, 12:49:51 am »
I'll show you after I move.

P.S. Hellbore dance by itself is more likely to be an automatic loss. Klingons are just better at that stuff.

Hydran is all about timing. Know when to be passive (dance), and when to be aggressive (charge).

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2005, 01:05:04 am »
Well... the CB doesnt really stand a chance vs the NHK. And you did an excellent job, Seanner, to prove it.

Despite my 3x mess ups:
A, accidently wasted a scatter at range 30, hehe. That's ok, tho cuz it was funny how your mine still managed to miss it.
B, HET'd to fire a full alpha at under 9, and all went well till I realized to my horror that my photons were set to proxy, lol. I unfortunately turned back into you (greedy) to fire them and took a 28 point internal from the plasma I couldnt outrun because of my mistake.
C. I had to ES in a corner because my HET never started (misclicks kill you) and I was about to fly off. I ate 2 S torps and an F. But luckily... my shields regenerated and that mistake 15 minutes into the fight didnt make that much a difference and hour later when it was over.

Your mistakes: You eat Tboms too often. Know when to get close while chasing and when not to. Your losing your front shields to my tbombs so early in the match is likely why the fight lasted an hour.

To your credit, you consistently frustrated me as I had to turn off my loaded photons 3 times during the match because of your excellent chasing and psuedo tactics. You didnt give me time/chance to turn in to fire.

You, however, didnt kill me, I disengaged, but not before giving you every opportunuty to do so. Lesson: Know when to take a bloody nose if you can come out with a bigger better trade off... or the kill for that matter. You were not aggressive enough and gave me way too much respect at times especially at the end and I slipped thru your fingers when you should have easily taken me.

GG's Seanner. You are catching on.

Oh, and DH, it didnt help to call out aloud everytime you knew I was about to pull a stunt. He aint gonna learn unless he experiences it. :P Other than that, great coaching. A few more nights like tonight and he will be ready for Hexx...

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2005, 01:14:03 am »
Hydran is all about timing. Know when to be passive (dance), and when to be aggressive (charge).

Our last match I tried to teach him that... I told him to control the match, be more aggressive and chase more, but he settled back into his comfortable routine of saber dancing. I did show him an aggressive move. He performed it... and got a Tbomb bukakke. At least he learned two things, I think he knows now to ES when a buncha mines are in his path instead of running them all down, or to either wait to be aggressive till after your opponent has used up his scatters and mines. But at least he learned the aggressive move.

Seanner, here's a tip... Fly more aggressively. Each time you die you know just how much further you can push it. ;) The more you fly defensively, passively, the more you resign the control of the battle to your opponent.

Diz

Offline Corbomite

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2005, 03:23:55 am »
Hydran power management can be tricky. With two sets of HW to charge it can really eat up your power.

Remember that even though Fusions are a two turn weapon in firing rate, they are a one turn to charge weapon (after firing they need a turn to cool off). This means you can turn them off until you need them and then they are ready in one turn.

It also gives you one turn of extra power after firing if you are using them so you can plan tactics around that as well, i.e. fire them and then use the next turn to apply the power somewhere else until the Fusions are ready to arm again.

Hydrans also have a two shuttle launch rate which can be really useful against plasma. It will allow you to close with the ship and WW most of your opponents damage and still leave you in a good postion to crack a shield (one of Marcus' favorite tactics). This takes timing and practice. 50 points of Suicide Shuttle damage isn't bad either if you can get close enough to over run them.

Saber dancing with Hellbores is a good tactic... as long as you have cracked or severely damaged a shield first. One tactic is to turn the HB off and OL the Fusions for an initial pass at 8.99 or closer if possible. Fusions are not the greatest at that range, but combined with a Phaser salvo and a little luck you can weaken or down a shield, then peel off, turn off the Fusions and then HB them to death from a safer range. Once they are chewed up a bit, you close and give them a full dose of everything you have and let the fighters do the rest.

Fighter control is very important. Never commit them unless you are ready to follow up in a way that gives you the upper hand. If you are using them to decoy you and soak up fire, be ready to move in after they have been shot at (useful when you have a ship with a low fighter count i.e three or less). If you are using your ship to soak up damage in order to get the fighters close enough to damage/cripple your opponent be sure you set yourself up to minimize the damage to your ship and to give the fighters their optimum shot (useful when you have a ship with a good fighter count i.e. six or more). This is a hard sell with the Fusion fighters, but is a great tactic with the "never miss" HB fighters. If you do manage it with the Fusion fighters it will pretty much be game over. 762 mentioned most of this on TS, but it bears spelling out here. If you find you are launching fighters in a desperate attempt to save your ass, you have lost control of the fight. One more thing: The Defend Me setting is your best friend. The fighters will try to stay close to you and will attack at range (if able) and it gives your opponent more targets to worry about if you decide to just run up and give them hell.

Don't get Tractored. You can't launch fighters/shuttles when you are Tractored.

Don't forget about ESG/HB interaction when fighting Lyrans.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 03:34:53 am by Corbomite »

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2005, 05:59:48 am »
Oh, and DH, it didnt help to call out aloud everytime you knew I was about to pull a stunt. He aint gonna learn unless he experiences it. :P Other than that, great coaching. A few more nights like tonight and he will be ready for Hexx...

Yeah I guess now that he's easily smacking you around he's getting closer to someone that may keep my interest in a fight.


Oh -Seanner, the ESG /Hellbore reaction that Corbo mentioned is simply that if you fire Hellbores at someone who has ESG's up
your ship will explode. Tragic really, but what can you do?
So remember to never, EVER, fire Hellbores at a Lyran ship
It'll make you look silly.


Hexx the helpful.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2005, 09:28:57 am »
Quote
Despite my 3x mess ups:
A, accidently wasted a scatter at range 30, hehe. That's ok, tho cuz it was funny how your mine still managed to miss it.

Wasn't that when I was the Hydran?  I remember missing TWICE, once because I put the Tbomb evidentally at range 1.99 or something and the second because I turned .01 degrees too far.  If I missed a THIRD time as the Rom then, like I said, I'm the worst pilot in the world.

Quote
B, HET'd to fire a full alpha at under 9, and all went well till I realized to my horror that my photons were set to proxy, lol. I unfortunately turned back into you (greedy) to fire them and took a 28 point internal from the plasma I couldnt outrun because of my mistake.

I really enjoyed that one ;)

Quote
C. I had to ES in a corner because my HET never started (misclicks kill you) and I was about to fly off. I ate 2 S torps and an F. But luckily... my shields regenerated and that mistake 15 minutes into the fight didnt make that much a difference and hour later when it was over.

This is where I got confused.  At that point I was empty, and photons charge faster, so I figured to just rearm.  Should I have stayed and kept up the pressure??  What happens when you shoot me with 4 overloads and I shoot you with nothing though?  Best I can figure is if you are EVENTUALLY going to run away, you will take many Tbombs as pure internals at that point, and probably will lose a bunch of photons anyway.  If we each sat there at super close range than my shield reinforcement wins the day.  So I guess if you get stuck, I should castle right next to you?

Quote
Your mistakes: You eat Tboms too often. Know when to get close while chasing and when not to. Your losing your front shields to my tbombs so early in the match is likely why the fight lasted an hour.

Yeah I know now..it seems best to pseudo chase at around range 10.  What screwed me up is you slowed WAY down very early, and I didn't know whether to slow and stay behind or overrun or fire and turn off or etc...... In hindsight you didn't have the speed to outrun the plasma so I should've fired at maybe range 7-8 and taken minimal Tbombing in exchange for huge plasma damage, and then of course a phaser volley through the downed shield.

Quote
To your credit, you consistently frustrated me as I had to turn off my loaded photons 3 times during the match because of your excellent chasing and psuedo tactics. You didnt give me time/chance to turn in to fire.

Credit shmedit!  That's the easy part, just play very afraid of Dizzy.  If you hint that you are firing I shoot something.  Of course, that's why I wasted an alpha because of your STUPID TRICK ;) of HETting in a circle.

Quote
You, however, didnt kill me, I disengaged, but not before giving you every opportunuty to do so. Lesson: Know when to take a bloody nose if you can come out with a bigger better trade off... or the kill for that matter. You were not aggressive enough and gave me way too much respect at times especially at the end and I slipped thru your fingers when you should have easily taken me.

Ha!  I didn't believe you were actually going to disengage!  Otherwise I would've just armed tractor, full speed overrun then ED to stay on the map.  I'm just happy with what I did otherwise.

Quote
Oh, and DH, it didnt help to call out aloud everytime you knew I was about to pull a stunt. He aint gonna learn unless he experiences it. :P Other than that, great coaching. A few more nights like tonight and he will be ready for Hexx...

Ooooooh damn you!  He only really reminded me of what I'd learned already.  MOST of what he said was to fire whenever you would start to turn towards, which is exactly what I was waiting for anyway.  I even ran into all those Tbombs despite him telling me not too.  Where he definitely directly saved me was once I started to lose my front shields I was going to keep chasing as best as I could, and he said just run parallel to keep up the pressure without actually exposing yourself...which of course is why the NHK is total BS.

In conclusion, I'm sorry I wasted so much time in that fight!  I hope you enjoyed it anyway :)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 10:02:23 am by Seanner »

Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #90 on: September 09, 2005, 09:42:58 am »
Sounds good 762 :)

Quote
Our last match I tried to teach him that... I told him to control the match, be more aggressive and chase more, but he settled back into his comfortable routine of saber dancing. I did show him an aggressive move. He performed it... and got a Tbomb bukakke. At least he learned two things, I think he knows now to ES when a buncha mines are in his path instead of running them all down, or to either wait to be aggressive till after your opponent has used up his scatters and mines. But at least he learned the aggressive move.

But see that's the thing...I still haven't learned when to do either because NEITHER worked.  EDIT: I mean being aggressive with either fusions or HBs...passive was always ok.  I hope I wasn't offending you by arguing with your advice repeatedly, it was that I kept blowing up whether I was agressive or passive.  If I chase I lose to Tbombs, if I don't chase then I cause internals every HB shot!  I had done what Corbomite said as it turns out..I had an overloaded HB, normal HB, and fusion that I alphad at range 8.99 (with phasers) doing good shield damage, at which point the saber dancing was causing internals every volley and I hadn't yet lost a shield.  If I haven't done to many AI fights since then I should have the autorecorded film to prove it!  Forgive me for being stubborn...I simply maintain that those tactics were working!  At which point you told me to be aggressive and I took a face full of bombs and scatterpacks.  I see what's going on here.  You are trying to get me to lose!

Honestly though it's not my intent to be stubborn!  I WANT to learn from all that Dizzy has to say.  Just so long as it doesn't get me blown up 5 seconds later.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 10:07:01 am by Seanner »

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #91 on: September 09, 2005, 10:02:01 am »

 Where he definitely directly saved me was once I started to lose my front shields I was going to keep chasing as best as I could, and he said just run parallel to keep up the pressure without actually exposing yourself...


Thank Corbomite for that . . .

. . which of course is why the NHK is total BS.


It is not BS, it is simply the Best of the CCH (Except for maybe the I-CAZ).   Every class of ship needs the best.

As a joke last night, t00l took a K-D7W and I took an G-MCC and he kicked my ass!!  7 Rear PH1 and 4 PH2 ripped me apart before I could even get close enough to do anything.  Should be interesting to try the NHK against the D7W, see if those extra 2 points of power makes a diference.



 
In conclusion, I'm sorry I wasted so much time in that fight!  I hope you enjoyed it anyway :)

PvP needs to be savored and not rushed.   Just keep a big cup on your desk in case you need to take a leak .  . .



Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2005, 10:11:33 am »
Woops, that was corbomite on the mic at that point?  Thanks corbo.

Yes let's do the NHK vs D7W, I want to try the Klingon this time.  All those phasers sound fun.

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2005, 10:38:58 am »
I WANT to learn from all that Dizzy has to say.  Just so long as it doesn't get me blown up 5 seconds later.

If you only followed my advice for that one mission, why on the other two were you pwnd so horribly if your tactics were working as you say? At least when you followed my advice we ended up slugging it out via tractor rotation. It was a nailbiter for a minute or so.

Bottom line there was to get you to try something different and see how it worked or not.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2005, 10:47:20 am »


Bottom line there was to get you to try something different and see how it worked or not.

You need to learn multiple styles of Flying and need to know when to do what. 
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2005, 11:08:35 am »
I still say you don't need it.
I've *never* had a formal training session and look at me now.

BTW -Fly Lyran.
Really our ships are the most fun to fly.
They can do anything
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline CaptJosh

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2005, 11:46:29 am »
"they can do anything"

But they can't do anything well. :P
CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.

Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #97 on: September 09, 2005, 12:03:07 pm »
But the point is I only got blown up when I closed the range!  Yes I lost every mission where "I did what I wanted" but only AFTER I stopped dancing.  At no point was I in danger at losing between ranges 8-16 that I was firing my HBs from.  All of my loses were caused by my closing the range.  Many of the times I closed were on my own volition, which is your point that I lost flying my own way, but the point is that it's not from hellbore dancing.  Now it may be that hellbore dancing shouldn't win in theory, but it was working against your responses in those games.  Unforuntely I don't have the films as I played at least 5 games vs the AI afterwards, but if you have them you can confirm that you were taking internals and I hadn't lost a shield yet.  The losses all came after turning in.

To Hexx: I forgot to reply earlier: I checked the manual thoroughly and could not find a single mention of the HB ship blowing up when it shoots the ESG fields.  I did see on one page's footnotes that if you ram a cloaked ship with them YOU blow up.


:D :D :D


I would LOOOOVE to fly Lyran, except if I wanted disruptors I would fly Klingon and take more phasers and drones.  If I wanted ESG fields I'd fly Hydran and use fusions/gattlings to replace an offensive ESG and gattlings to replace the defensive ESG.  If I wanted no power while charging I'd fly Fed.  If I wanted stupid phasers I'd fly Lyran.  Oops.  There you have it, the Lyrans are worthless.


heheh

Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #98 on: September 09, 2005, 12:08:53 pm »
Oops. There you have it, the Lyrans are worthless.

Tell Firesoul that....
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

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762_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2005, 12:18:19 pm »
It will take longer to lose the saber dance but you will lose it just the same. If you over-rely on those split arcs you show him your rear every time. Eventually it drops and the internals start racking up. Your weapons get miziaed, you run out of parts, and things get p00py real fast.

Chasing him all the time won't work either (as you discovered), because of all his transporters and rear firing phasers.

This is not to say the fight is hopeless by any means. It just becomes a question of timing, knowing when to use each tactic. Occasionally overloading and luring him into range 8 is a good middle ground, if he bites. Mix that up with the starndard range 15 saber, and try for an overrun when the timing is right. The timing is right if:

1) You are mostly loaded
2) He is mostly not
3) He is being aggressive, not running away from you
4) You think you can catch him by surprise

And don't forget a repel. That is VERY important.

If you died trying this against Dizzy it does not mean the tactic is invalid. It just means you have to work on your timing.

There is of course a third tactic, which is to castle. But I wouldn't recommend trying it until you familiarize yourself thoroughly with the moving battle.



Offline Kzinbane

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2005, 12:31:16 pm »
But the point is I only got blown up when I closed the range!  Yes I lost every mission where "I did what I wanted" but only AFTER I stopped dancing.  At no point was I in danger at losing between ranges 8-16 that I was firing my HBs from.  All of my loses were caused by my closing the range.  Many of the times I closed were on my own volition, which is your point that I lost flying my own way, but the point is that it's not from hellbore dancing.  Now it may be that hellbore dancing shouldn't win in theory, but it was working against your responses in those games.  Unforuntely I don't have the films as I played at least 5 games vs the AI afterwards, but if you have them you can confirm that you were taking internals and I hadn't lost a shield yet.  The losses all came after turning in.

To Hexx: I forgot to reply earlier: I checked the manual thoroughly and could not find a single mention of the HB ship blowing up when it shoots the ESG fields.  I did see on one page's footnotes that if you ram a cloaked ship with them YOU blow up.


:D :D :D


I would LOOOOVE to fly Lyran, except if I wanted disruptors I would fly Klingon and take more phasers and drones.  If I wanted ESG fields I'd fly Hydran and use fusions/gattlings to replace an offensive ESG and gattlings to replace the defensive ESG.  If I wanted no power while charging I'd fly Fed.  If I wanted stupid phasers I'd fly Lyran.  Oops.  There you have it, the Lyrans are worthless.


heheh

Drones are for wimps that can't figure out how to win with direct fire.  :P  Give me a good phaser suite, a few dizzy's and a couple ESG's any day, just TRY to hit me with a drone LOL.  Between the phaser 3's, tractors and 2 ESG nothing stops drones better.  You knuckleheads that think ESG's are only for ramming are missing out... they are DEFENSIVE weapons first THEN offensive weapons.  ::)

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2005, 12:37:18 pm »
lYRANS PWN. oops caps.

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2005, 12:40:00 pm »
New Thread: R-NHK Vs. L-BCPp

Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2005, 12:42:09 pm »
New Thread: R-NHK Vs. L-BCPp

You are hijacking... not making a new thread... what are you?  A n00b?  :P
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #104 on: September 09, 2005, 12:44:08 pm »

Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2005, 12:58:12 pm »
Quote
It will take longer to lose the saber dance but you will lose it just the same. If you over-rely on those split arcs you show him your rear every time. Eventually it drops and the internals start racking up. Your weapons get miziaed, you run out of parts, and things get p00py real fast.

Yep that's what I guessed in my first post on this issue, but Dizzy wasn't shooting my rear shield everytime so I was fine proceeding with dancing in THIS case, though I see it's wrong in general.

Quote
Chasing him all the time won't work either (as you discovered), because of all his transporters and rear firing phasers.

Yeah, and to hell with T-bombs.

Quote
This is not to say the fight is hopeless by any means. It just becomes a question of timing, knowing when to use each tactic. Occasionally overloading and luring him into range 8 is a good middle ground, if he bites. Mix that up with the starndard range 15 saber, and try for an overrun when the timing is right. The timing is right if:

1) You are mostly loaded
2) He is mostly not
3) He is being aggressive, not running away from you
4) You think you can catch him by surprise

So let's say I'm at range 15 with normals charged (including fusions) and he just fired:  I can overload the fusions in half a turn, meaning I can get a solid shot before he rearms.  What if he turns away?  Since I can't chase him into T-bombs do I take a range 8 alpha and turn away again?  Also having to centerline for a good shot is impossibly restrictive, would it be better to go with one OL HB and OL fusions for higher speed and just fire at an oblique if he's trying to turn away from the overrun?  Or use everything but burn an HET?  What would be helpful is a video of some excellent Hydran/Klingon players duelling...

Quote
And don't forget a repel. That is VERY important.

Roger that.  I'll never be able to figure out how much to use.  He could possibly go with a level 4 and be shooting standard disruptors and low phasers at pretty good speed, and I would never realize it.

Quote
If you died trying this against Dizzy it does not mean the tactic is invalid. It just means you have to work on your timing.

No it means Dizzy was trying to get me killed.  He wanted me to crash into the T-bombs.  I'm afraid, Dizzy, we can no longer be friends  :'(

j/k

Quote
There is of course a third tactic, which is to castle. But I wouldn't recommend trying it until you familiarize yourself thoroughly with the moving battle.

Screw castling... ships should have a stall speed of 12-15... yes in space.  We'll say their warp drives fail if not kept above 12-15.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #106 on: September 09, 2005, 01:13:03 pm »
New Thread: R-NHK Vs. L-BCPp

Is that even a contest?
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #107 on: September 09, 2005, 01:29:15 pm »
Quote
Screw castling... ships should have a stall speed of 12-15... yes in space.  We'll say their warp drives fail if not kept above 12-15.
I hate to say this but some time castling is the best thing in  some of the hydran ships (spits into the wind) Aginst some of the later klingon ships with their better turn rates and weapon arcs It is asking to get a scatter pack in your face if your chasing or even worse letting  him get behind you. If the pilot is any good he will be able to stay out of your arcs for the heavys and pound your rear shields with his.
 Some of the best matches i have ever played are aginst hydran pilots who know what they are doing. (yes i think castling is cheasy still but it is a valid tactic)
 It sounds like your getting some good lessons from some fine pilots.
 My best piece of advice that i can give you is to listen to them and ask alot of questions. If some thing isnt working for you try something different, what works for them might not be  your style but knowing it could save your a$$ one day.
Kurok

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #108 on: September 09, 2005, 01:30:45 pm »
New Thread: R-NHK Vs. L-BCPp

Is that even a contest?

Well it would be alot more fun then a Lyran CCH

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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #109 on: September 09, 2005, 01:32:33 pm »
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #110 on: September 09, 2005, 01:37:23 pm »
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.

Agreed
Should be at least 20.
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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #111 on: September 09, 2005, 01:41:44 pm »
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.

That is with the cloak, which while usefula against some races is not any good against Lyrans.

192 x .85 = 163.5 BPV is the non-cloak effective NHK BPV.   This is of course funny as this is lower than the F-CB's 165 BPV which is not as good.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Seanner

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #112 on: September 09, 2005, 01:42:28 pm »
Quote
My best piece of advice that i can give you is to listen to them and ask alot of questions. If some thing isnt working for you try something different, what works for them might not be  your style but knowing it could save your a$$ one day.

Point well taken.

Will people be on tonight?

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #113 on: September 09, 2005, 01:46:12 pm »
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.

That is with the cloak, which while usefula against some races is not any good against Lyrans.

192 x .85 = 163.5 BPV is the non-cloak effective NHK BPV.   This is of course funny as this is lower than the F-CB's 165 BPV which is not as good.

Tru, but then the Lyran CCH -while not being a bad ship by any means- still (to me) seems a little high at 170.
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #114 on: September 09, 2005, 01:48:04 pm »
Ya, Hexx... we need to lower it to... 155?  ;D Mb you wouldnt have such a hard time in EEK missions then...  ;)

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #115 on: September 09, 2005, 01:54:41 pm »
I never fly it.
Now if you wanted to lower the CWLP's to say mid 50ish that'd be cool  :P
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Offline FA Frey XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #116 on: September 09, 2005, 04:33:35 pm »
I'm going to be online tonight after BattleStar Galactica.

:)
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #117 on: September 09, 2005, 05:26:36 pm »
Ahhh, thx for reminding me... gonna tape it.

Hey, I didnt see BSG last fri night. Just a buncha SG1 episodes... U?

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2005, 05:31:04 pm »
Ahhh, thx for reminding me... gonna tape it.

Hey, I didnt see BSG last fri night. Just a buncha SG1 episodes... U?

Sci Fi didn't show anything new.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2005, 05:35:51 pm »
Naw, no new BSG last week - tonight is a new one tho :)
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #120 on: September 09, 2005, 05:43:17 pm »
Ahhh, thx for reminding me... gonna tape it.

Hey, I didnt see BSG last fri night. Just a buncha SG1 episodes... U?

SciFi NEVER shows new episodes on holiday weekends...

Guess they figure everyone will be out partying....
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Offline Mog

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #121 on: September 10, 2005, 03:30:31 am »
"they can do anything"

But they can't do anything well. :P

Riiiight  :screwloose:
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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #122 on: September 10, 2005, 12:46:38 pm »
Surely you've heard the expression "A jack of all trades is master of none."
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those who understand binary and those who don't.

Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #123 on: September 10, 2005, 01:54:50 pm »
Show me a BC the BCHF cant kill.

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #124 on: September 10, 2005, 03:52:10 pm »
Surely you've heard the expression "A jack of all trades is master of none."

You have no idea what you are talking about.   Please remove your foot before speaking :P
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #125 on: September 10, 2005, 04:37:13 pm »
Surely you've heard the expression "A jack of all trades is master of none."

You have no idea what you are talking about.   Please remove your foot before speaking :P

 :lol:
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #126 on: September 10, 2005, 04:51:19 pm »
Surely you've heard the expression "A jack of all trades is master of none."

You have no idea what you are talking about.   Please remove your foot before speaking :P

 :lol:

Wait a second... mb he was talking about Hexx?

Offline 3dot14

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #127 on: September 10, 2005, 05:19:25 pm »
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.

That is with the cloak, which while usefula against some races is not any good against Lyrans.

192 x .85 = 163.5 BPV is the non-cloak effective NHK BPV.   This is of course funny as this is lower than the F-CB's 165 BPV which is not as good.
Point of information: theoretically, is the 15% "Cloak tax" including the extra engine power that would be needed to run the cloaking device?

(if the NHK is dropped to the same power level of the CB (and without cloak), the match would be a lot closer (even in feds favor) at 165 bpv.)

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #128 on: September 10, 2005, 05:20:53 pm »
Actually it (kinda) proves my point.
You should try and get someone from all the races to train the new guys.

I mean I really don't mind when I fight a new Fed or Klink and they
try and overrun a BCHP , but maybe a quick run through what all the races can do.

<sigh>
maybe if someone would have taken the time way back when I wouldn't have such issues
fighting plasma.  :'(


But serioulsy- have it set up so the new guys flya against all the races, I remember when I started flying Lyran
that all I was told was "Lyrans are great close up"
So I proceeded to lose god knows how many (I'm sure in the hundreds) of matches to t00l and Bearslayer
before I finally wised up and said, hmm overrunning Hydrans= dead ship.

Really, I think if you're going to set up and run Fun IP games for free the least you could do it do it properly.
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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #129 on: September 10, 2005, 05:23:48 pm »
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.

That is with the cloak, which while usefula against some races is not any good against Lyrans.

192 x .85 = 163.5 BPV is the non-cloak effective NHK BPV.   This is of course funny as this is lower than the F-CB's 165 BPV which is not as good.
Point of information: theoretically, is the 15% "Cloak tax" including the extra engine power that would be needed to run the cloaking device?

(if the NHK is dropped to the same power level of the CB (and without cloak), the match would be a lot closer (even in feds favor) at 165 bpv.)

I admit (cuz everyone already knows it) that I know nothing about plasma, but I'd think that dropping a NHK to 38 power  would
make it one of the worst CCH's.
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #130 on: September 10, 2005, 05:35:27 pm »
Actually it (kinda) proves my point.
You should try and get someone from all the races to train the new guys.

I mean I really don't mind when I fight a new Fed or Klink and they
try and overrun a BCHP , but maybe a quick run through what all the races can do.

<sigh>
maybe if someone would have taken the time way back when I wouldn't have such issues
fighting plasma.  :'(


But serioulsy- have it set up so the new guys flya against all the races, I remember when I started flying Lyran
that all I was told was "Lyrans are great close up"
So I proceeded to lose god knows how many (I'm sure in the hundreds) of matches to t00l and Bearslayer
before I finally wised up and said, hmm overrunning Hydrans= dead ship.

Really, I think if you're going to set up and run Fun IP games for free the least you could do it do it properly.

ahem...excuse me, you just admitted to losing god knows how many matches? You're ego go on vacation for a few minutes?  :o
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Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #131 on: September 10, 2005, 05:41:39 pm »
Well to be honest most of them were of me in a CWLP against t00l or Bear in a BCH or DN so
I sorta have an excuse

Besides that was then, now I am the master
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #132 on: September 10, 2005, 05:52:29 pm »
Master?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2005, 08:03:20 pm by FPF-TobinDax »
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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #133 on: September 10, 2005, 08:47:36 pm »
Ah, those were the days.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #134 on: September 10, 2005, 11:17:27 pm »
What do you mean "were?"

Face it Hexx, you do best when on my wing :P
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #135 on: September 10, 2005, 11:19:20 pm »

Point of information: theoretically, is the 15% "Cloak tax" including the extra engine power that would be needed to run the cloaking device?

(if the NHK is dropped to the same power level of the CB (and without cloak), the match would be a lot closer (even in feds favor) at 165 bpv.)

No contest, at 38 power the CB would OWN the NHK.

I don't think the NHK owns the CB now, I think it is a better ship, mayb 60/40 and IMHO close enough.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #136 on: September 11, 2005, 07:46:26 am »
What do you mean "were?"

Face it Hexx, you do best when on my wing :P

I admit your sobbing and screams of frustration are amusing..

sides -I must point out- the one (and only) time I've seen you fly Lyran was against t00l , adn what did you try
and do with your CWLP?
Oh right.. overrun a <much> bigger Hydran ship.  ::)
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Offline IAF Lyrkiller

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #137 on: September 11, 2005, 09:18:27 am »
Please stop this usless debate and lets get the next server rolling. ;D ;D ;D




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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #138 on: September 11, 2005, 01:12:50 pm »
Aye, SG-SQL server coming soon...

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #139 on: September 11, 2005, 01:47:00 pm »
Define "soon"
 :P
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #140 on: September 11, 2005, 04:58:13 pm »
Why? KCW ready?

Offline Hexx

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #141 on: September 11, 2005, 05:00:00 pm »
Nah, just wanted to make sure that your "soon" wasn't going
to be Novemberish..
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #142 on: September 11, 2005, 05:09:54 pm »
Novemberish... Why the hurry?

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Re: R-NHK vs F-CB
« Reply #143 on: September 11, 2005, 05:26:29 pm »
I felt that when I kill 90%+ of you in the PVP matches you'll need some time to recover
before the xmas holidays. I'm actually thinking of having my own kill thread.. kinda like a who's who of
people silly enough to try and fight me in equal ships.
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