Topic: Andromedan Displacement Device conversion to SFC OP.

[Dizzy]

Damn, nothing works right now to get even close to what it does. But till that far off day when OP source is released and changed so it does work, or till scripts are made that comes up with something similar, there's not a reason we can't try something else so we dont have to wait that long...

How about a single Ph3 360` for each DD?

Or how about a single PlaD 360` for each one? More than one they get RS/LS arcs.

Either way, there isnt a way to avoid plasma hits... Unless we also allow them to have a shuttle for each DD box...

But whatever is done, the fact remains that Drones/Fighters and PF's (Cheese) will easily pwn the TR and Ph2 armed Andro ships. They just cant kill ftrs PF's and drones. Andros just get toasted.

So far in play testing, the Ph3's give them decent survival rates vs ships armed with 2-4 racks. More than that they get killed.

The PlaD are decent against drones, but really help protect against PF's. Ph3's are useless.

Just wanted some ideas.

[Hexx]

Using every little bit that I was able to dredge up on the Andros (and it's not much) I can only say one thing
-We can't do SFB Andros-

We don't (as you've mentioned) have the means to use the PA's, the Dis device (I thought) could be emulated using specific scripts
I have no idea if they're workable or not though- and teh ability to use tacwarp would make them largely immune to any pursuing missle.

The other option would be simple- we can't do SFB Andros so don't try.
Personally I was thinking of combining ships with a large number of labs (as mentioned by others) and insane amounts of armour.
My understanding is that no Galactic Power ship is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with an equivalant Andro and
survive- so why not err on the side of making the ships tougher rather than weaker?

[FPF-DieHard]

Tactical Warp.  Both TG and EEk have done this.   Give Andros the ability to use Warp in Tactical and then they don't have to worry about their poor PD.

The best you're gonna get, even with custom scripts, is SFC3 ships in SFC:OP.

Stop over-thinking

[Hexx]

Bodly go?

You try and bodly go?

No wonder you have better luck with canines...

And after another shot at DH has made me forget the reason I was going to post...

Does Tac warp actually work (relatively) bug free in missions?

[FPF-DieHard]

Why bother correcting your own typos when Canadien Midgets work cheap.

As far as the missions, we'll know when TG hits Semester break.

[Hexx]

Why bother correcting your own typos when Canadien Midgets work cheap.

As far as the missions, we'll know when TG hits Semester break.

What's "boldy" mean?

[Dizzy]

Isnt that boldly? Not bodly? Doesnt matter. Legendary Captains dont tneed to know the difference between Ecm and Eccm.

Stop under thinking, DH. Tac warp cant be properly used by the AI. Whoever said we want Andros to be a playable race? Be nice, but as, and I think it was Chuut or tool that said, call them the Androgemedons, Transvestites from another galaxy bent on taking over the universe... They dont have to be SFB Andros we all know... but some uniqueness is necessary to justify the effort.

EDIT: Think of it like a monster mission... Or for use as the 9th non-player race...

[Hexx]

Ya needs Andros as a playable race, otherwise where's the challenge in beating them?

Edit: Oh I can edit as well, - problem is you'll go to all this work to put them in
and if they start to beat players in a mission, the player simply disconnects.
(Not that I ever would of course, but I've heard stories...)
It would be cool if the AI could be programmed to have them "rampage" across space, but since we can't..

I'd say there's very little point in putting Andros (or any super race) in unless they have their own VP goasl
and are playable

[FPF-DieHard]

Stop under thinking, DH. Tac warp cant be properly used by the AI. Whoever said we want Andros to be a playable race? Be nice, but as, and I think it was Chuut or tool that said, call them the Androgemedons, Transvestites from another galaxy bent on taking over the universe... They dont have to be SFB Andros we all know... but some uniqueness is necessary to justify the effort.

All the AI has no clue as to seeking weapon defense, gorn's AI is particularly bad.  

I don't see the point of going to all this trouble for an AI race.  

[Dizzy]

problem is you'll go to all this work to put them in
and if they start to beat players in a mission, the player simply disconnects.
(Not that I ever would of course, but I've heard stories...)

So? This is still done vs AI when a player has to get up to answer the phone.

It would be cool if the AI could be programmed to have them "rampage" across space, but since we can't..

Yes, actually, they can to some extent... But its easier to find them in certain hexes... more so than any other... muhahaha. Map/script terrain seeding method. Server admin can make sure they only show in certain hexes. And these hexes can be changed throughout the campaign. So they can 'rampage' around, in a way.

[Hexx]

So much trouble could be saved if Tracey would just drop out of school.

[Dizzy]

I don't see the point of going to all this trouble for an AI race.  

Believe me, it's less trouble to do this than it was for taldren to put together that crap monster list they did. And Andros have a chance at being much more fun and enjoyable to play vs than monsters.

All the AI has no clue as to seeking weapon defense, gorn's AI is particularly bad.   

Then would it matter if they had PlaD or Ph3 or shuttles?

[Hexx]

Why not just slap a couple of TR beams on one of the existing monsters?

All you're really doing is making an AI monster that's tougher than normal for anything not carrying a couple of S torps .

[Dizzy]

I think what I will do is use a shuttle for each DD box and a Ph3 360`. You can leave the play balance to me and simply avoid the Andro hexes I place them in.

[Hexx]

I think what I will do is use a shuttle for each DD box and a Ph3 360`. You can leave the play balance to me and simply avoid the Andro hexes I place them in.

Then aren't you giving the advantage to the skill-deficient drone chuckers? Would seem to be fairly easy to get one to weasel and kill it.

(YEs I'm bored, no one has ep2 of Rome on donkey or torrent yet)

[Dizzy]

They dont always weasel. But if they didnt, wouldnt it take less time to kill them?

[Klingon Fanatic]

  GREAT TOPIC! I love WZ45's TMP Andromedans!

Rod O' Neal has a great understanding of what SFC can do in relation to Andromedans.

Personally, I like having the Andromedans cloak to simulate a displacement device. This was done in an earlier version of the *on hold* Galaxies at War Mod that Rod O' Neal was instrumental in starting.

I haven't played Chris Jone's Universe At War Mod yet so I'm not 100% sure how accurately or not they are portrayed there.

True, claoking Andromedans don't break up enemy fleet formations but I'm told that even though we currently can not make the Andromedans actually do what they are supposed to do in SFB, we can at least approximate what a battle might LOOK LIKE against them.

As a non-SFB player, that's fine with me.

I'm sure if/when the source code is released the Andromedans and the Tholians will become races to be reckoned with. I look forward to that day.

Qapla!

KF

[Dfly]

Never thought of the cloaking idea for Andromedans, but I believe it has merrit.  If say, the Displacement Device costs 4 power to operate(which is what I think it is in SFB, but did not check) Make the cost of cloaking match the cost output of the Displacement Device.  This will give it a way or means of at least looking like it outruns drones, and gives a negative to the plasmas perhaps near to what would happen if that ship had displaced(for slower speeds anyway).  It will not get your ship away from other ships, but even the direct fire weapons of other races would become affected(except ESG).

[Hexx]

I'm (perhaps erroneously) under the impression though that Andros have a movement "bonus"
as they can displace and then fire- the cloak, while effective at defense, does add (imho) some penalties
to your offensive ability.
It may work for some , but personally I think tacwarp (if workable) is the best bet for any real server on the D2.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

5 second bursts of speed 500 to simulate displacing the Andro ship.... 5 seconds bursts of speed 500 on the Andro ship target to simulate displacing other ships... and a cloaking device.

Would need something like the deep scan toggle to activate the speed boost (which is becoming overly used for activating lots of things)

[FPF-DieHard]

5 second bursts of speed 500 to simulate displacing the Andro ship.... 5 seconds bursts of speed 500 on the Andro ship target to simulate displacing other ships... and a cloaking device.

Would need something like the deep scan toggle to activate the speed boost (which is becoming overly used for activating lots of things)

"Straight and Level"   Nobody uses this for anything.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

There must be a way to use keyboard commands in a mission script, after all, its just C++ code.

[CaptJosh]

Logically speaking, yes. There should be a way. OTOH, are keyboard commands directly supported in the API?

[GDA-S'Cipio]

5 second bursts of speed 500 to simulate displacing the Andro ship.... 5 seconds bursts of speed 500 on the Andro ship target to simulate displacing other ships... and a cloaking device.

If you've got the five second bursts for both target and Andro ships (which is pretty cool!) then do you really need to add in the cloak?  That much speed should eat up any incoming plasma, and with a few extra mines that shoudl allow you to "clear and bang" any incoming drone wave.

Maybe would could add cloak to the bases, to simulate the Temporal Elevator?

-S'Cipio

[Dizzy]

Tracey. Previous scripts have had you to deep scan something to trigger a communications option in the comms panel. Clicking on that could engage the tac-warp which then shuts off a few seconds later. Then you have to recharge the deep scanners to get the comms button to appear again... That way once it is charged... its waiting for you. And you cant use it at will... which would have obvious play issues.

Work it baby!

EDIT: Could also set it so that there are two comms buttons. One works when targeting an enemy ship within 'x' kilometers and the other for your ship. You could choose which to tac-warp.

Question, when 'tac warp' is turned off, what is your set speed?

[CaptJosh]

Is there no way to simply return to previous speed? OTOH, in the case of a ship that had the displacement device used against it, should they maybe have been knocked around a bit and have impulse offline temporarily?

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Tracey. Previous scripts have had you to deep scan something to trigger a communications option in the comms panel. Clicking on that could engage the tac-warp which then shuts off a few seconds later. Then you have to recharge the deep scanners to get the comms button to appear again... That way once it is charged... its waiting for you. And you cant use it at will... which would have obvious play issues.

Work it baby!

EDIT: Could also set it so that there are two comms buttons. One works when targeting an enemy ship within 'x' kilometers and the other for your ship. You could choose which to tac-warp.

Question, when 'tac warp' is turned off, what is your set speed?

Recording the ship's speed before it enters warp, then returning it to this speed afterwards would be the preferred method.

[Lepton]

I am guessing the answer is obvious, but it's not programmatically possible to set the position of a ship once it's on the map?  I assume if it were we would not be having this discussion.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

(YEs I'm bored, no one has ep2 of Rome on donkey or torrent yet)

Well, she is a whore.  That is not his grandchild...

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

I am guessing the answer is obvious, but it's not programmatically possible to set the position of a ship once it's on the map?  I assume if it were we would not be having this discussion.

Like most programs these days, SFC has been written in an object-oriented fashion. The ship class contains private member variables for its x and y coordinates on the map which means they cannot be changed by code outside of the ship object, nor are there any methods for doing so supplied by the API for changing these coordinated within the ship class. With some fudging of the code, it maybe possible to change these coordinates, however doing so is more than likely going to crash the game since chances are they were made private variables for a reason. To use an analogy, it would be like tryng to change the speedometer in your car to read a different speed but this may not necessarily change the actual speed of your vehicle.

However, it may be worth a try to see what happens anyway.

[el-Karnak]

5 second bursts of speed 500 to simulate displacing the Andro ship.... 5 seconds bursts of speed 500 on the Andro ship target to simulate displacing other ships... and a cloaking device.

Would need something like the deep scan toggle to activate the speed boost (which is becoming overly used for activating lots of things)

"Straight and Level"   Nobody uses this for anything.

That was the starting point for EEK GAW missions more than a year ago. But, that's only half the story. What we really want is the ability to target another ship and "displace" them.  It can already be done with AI. That's how I did the Tholian web snare where you can set a enemy target's speed to zero for as long as you want.  Next step is to make a enemy ship tac. warp for a few seconds in a random direction.  It so deliciously evil, and funny too. *snicker*

[Dizzy]

Oh man that's be cool in a rock field!

[Lepton]

I am guessing the answer is obvious, but it's not programmatically possible to set the position of a ship once it's on the map?  I assume if it were we would not be having this discussion.

Like most programs these days, SFC has been written in an object-oriented fashion. The ship class contains private member variables for its x and y coordinates on the map which means they cannot be changed by code outside of the ship object, nor are there any methods for doing so supplied by the API for changing these coordinated within the ship class. With some fudging of the code, it maybe possible to change these coordinates, however doing so is more than likely going to crash the game since chances are they were made private variables for a reason. To use an analogy, it would be like tryng to change the speedometer in your car to read a different speed but this may not necessarily change the actual speed of your vehicle.

However, it may be worth a try to see what happens anyway.

So much for the benefits of encapsulation.

Wouldn't it be lovely if at least we had a list of methods and variables in the source to see what is available, even despite not having the source?