Topic: KCW for Dummies

[Hexx]

Fortunately there isn't anyone better at PR on these forums than myself...

[KHH-MiniMe]

I'd rather you guys stick each otehr with Knives personally ..

<Hexx ponders how easy that would make his victories..>

I'm trying to find a balance for KCW- something that balances the
PVP aspect- awards fighting- but doesn't penalize the guys who would
like to sit there and flip some hexes for their side. Giving up a point (by running) to me
seems kinda reasonable- giving up 5 is to penalizing.

I don't think alot of people will mind the PVP -ships should be (relatively) cheap, with
D5L's/D5W's/D7W/FD7k's making up the majority of ships flown
As I'd like to see the D5L at about 3kish, and a D7W at 6kish I think people will
be able to burn through the ships without worrying about the expense.

  I originaly wanted the player banned from the server but thought that harsh....but still...a klink leaving the map is unthinkable...a (-3) penalty

Whatever the ships are they are....we have access to all of them so.....I like flying POS....makes you think up fun stuff.

How does which houses are major/minor get decided? Where does KHH fit into the mix?

Will there be battles within houses for leadership if a rift occurs in the house?

[KBF-SkullnBonez]

sounds like it could be alot of fun, looking forward to it

[FPF-DieHard]

sounds like it could be alot of fun, looking forward to it

Hexx!!  Looks like a admin volunteered 

[Hexx]

I was actually just reading this story on "sweatshop gaming" -where asian "sweatshops" have
players make cash and items for online games (which are then sold in the real world)
Now I generally don't approve of sweatshop labour.

But it would be perfect for admins of thes game..

[GDA-S'Cipio]

sounds like it could be alot of fun, looking forward to it

Hexx!!  Looks like a admin volunteered 

Careful, DH.   Skull might call in a favor from God.



-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

sounds like it could be alot of fun, looking forward to it

Hexx!!  Looks like a admin volunteered 

Careful, DH.   Skull might call in a favor from God.



-S'Cipio

God?   I live in a Blue State 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

God?   I live in a Blue State 

 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

2)   Honour – What is a Klingon without Honour (actually an Original series I suppose, but anyway – the Houses all accumulate honour as warriors.fight
You gain honour for participating in PVP fights.

If you win you gain 2 points for your house, if you win and capture your opponent you gain 3 points. If you lose (but fight well) you gain one. If you lose without fighting well (or are capped) you gain nothing.
If you so desire you may arrange a fight on GSA (or in a particular hex)
Such a battle can be on any terms you desire (1v1,2v2,2v1) and will gain more honour points for the winner.
(You can of course also arrange to meet someone without it being about HP’s)

The main thing to remember is it only counts for honour if all pilots agree  to it beforehand, or at the start of the mission

Who will decide if you "fought well?" Why should a player choose whether the situation is good for them to call it a "Honor" match? If you're caught low on supplies or in a smaller ship then such is the fight. Allowing Klingons to choose seems merciful, and mercy is for the weak!

2 points for a kill is good. An extra point for a capture is silly, do you score 3 if the marines were there but I self destruct?
All PvP battles should be reported and score points according to the end result. Maybe:
Destroying an enemy ship and suffering NO (ZERO!) internal damage: 3 points
Destroying enemy and sustaining damage internally to you                : 2 ponts
Being destroyed by the enemy                                                     : 1 point
The enemy flees the map like a coward                                         : 1 point

Adjustments for multi-player example:
 1) Kreug and I Die fighting Chutt and Soreyes, both of them damaged: 2 points us, 4 points them.
 2) We Die, but kill Soreyes and Chutt took zero internals:  3 points to us, 5 points them.
 3) I fly off the map , Kreug Dies, and they both live but took damage: 1 point us, 3 points them.
 4) We flee the map after killing Chutt, neither taking internal damage: 3 points to us, 2 points to them.

Each player scores the highest point value on the rung they qualify for.

Being outnumbered adds a +1 to appropriate scoring
1) I kill Dizzy but Diehard blasts me in a 2v1. DH took internals: 3 for me, 3 for them. DH took no internals would be 4 points each team.
The outnumbering team do not all score separate points for a singular ship's demise, but would still score the point for being killed.

Tried to keep it short and simple for easy posting of the battles.  i.e :

Had a battle today 3v3. My whole team died, killed one of them and damaged the other two: 4 points us, 6 points them.

Kreug, Duck and I killed Mutilator and Hexx. We all took damage but survived: 4 points us, 3 points them.
IF they had killed one of us: we get 5 points, they get 5 also. IF they had killed 2 of us we get 5 they get 6!

I think its a fair scoring system giving kudos to sticking it out when outgunned, and adds the klingon mentality of Death before Dishonor and praise for fighting to the end.

LordSaxon

How about something a tad more simple, Winner gets points loser don't.....history goes to the victor, everything else is kinda irrelevant beyond personal satisfaction.  It just seems a bit overdone to have all these complications on something we are supposed to be doing for relaxation 

[Hexx]

Actually Sax's system is fairly simple, -I am thinking of not giving any bonuses for being outnumbered (and losing) a fight though
To me it would seem if you take on superior numbers and win you're a hero, if you lose you're an idiot for fighting .

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

To me it would seem if you take on superior numbers and win you're a hero, if you lose you're an idiot for fighting .

Same for fighting a bigger ship, fighting while low on supply, etc.  But I'm not surprised that you'd want a system that rewards stupidity somewhat, it will allow you to get on the scoreboard     I'm sure the Klingons were proud of all those "moral victories" over Captain Kirk  Also it seems that you are rewarding the pilot that picks away at a damaged foe for 30 minutes rather than one who goes in and ending it quickly despite incurring some damage, that aspect seems very Federation-like, true Klingons wouldn't mind having a few battle deaths in a victory.   

I like calling a victory a victory and a defeat a defeat, anything else is an excuse in some form or other.  You got the same shiplists, there should be no excuses.

Additionally this system will discourage flying without a wingman even more,  if they give up points for fleeing opponents of superior numbers without engaging to the point of risking destruction. 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

As for minor houses that are eliminated, does it make sense to draft them afterwards?

I'd say no as they might not want to fly with whoever drafted them.  It might be a group that wanted to fly together but had no interest in flying seperately.  If you make them co-opted by who ever conquers them you also have a problem with a snowball effect with the side with the most numbers gaining more and more advantage.  I'd say give them the option of chosing one of the other major houses or another minor one, thus making it a risky affair to take out a minor house.  But it would make a certain amount of sense as the minor house would be out for revenge, and it would work counter to any snowballing, becoming potentially a built in wild geese scenario.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Here is the VC system that would make the most sense to me in regards to PvP.

Kill a foe in an equal hull class 1pt     
Kill a foe in a greater hull class 2pts
Kill a foe in a hull class 2 above your own 3pts

Force disengagement of foe in greater hull class 1pt
Force disengagement of foe in hull class 2 greater than your own 2 pts

Capture foe 1pt
Capture foe in equal hull class 2pts
Capture foe in hull class 2 greater than your own 3pts

Captures deserve more VC rewards because you bring home the spoils of war and if the opponent wasn't smart enough to hit self destruct in time he deserves the penalty for his own incompetence and the shame of being brought to the enemy in shackles.

Outnumber opponent 0 points for kills and disengagements only pts for captures

In multiple ship encounters a 1 hull class margin is granted so that 1 heavy and one light cruiser engaging 2 heavies is considered an equal fight.

If outnumbered by foes consider all enemies are considered to be one hull class greater for VC scoring per pilot advantage.  Thus an enemy frigate would be considered a light cruiser in a 1 v 2 and be considered a heavy in a 1 v 3 for VC scoring.

This system rewards those who pull off victories in disadvantaged conditions and doesn't stroke the "ego" of those flying around with all the cards in their hands.  Also helps an outnumbered side. 

I think this also encourages more equal fights (which should be the goal), rather than rewarding whoever can stack the deck the best.

[Hexx]

I am still looking at a PVP HP system, it's unfortunately one of those things that won't please everyone, so as long
as it benefits me in some small way I'll be happy with it.

-As for the minor houses- I'm still heavily leaning toward a draft- the minor houses have everything stacked against them. If you
want to fly with a group of people you should choose one of the Major houses.- If we get enough people the map is set up so that a fourth
major house can be easily thrown in.
Minor houses are for maschoists, as well as myself and perhaps one or two others -really they're only there so that there won't be a huge outcry
and boycotts of people who are upset that I won;t be flying on their side. To be clear- the minor houses will be included, but they will be insanely difficult to even survive with, let alone thrive. The server will work perfectly well if no one at all fly's for them.

I'm already receiving concerns from the KBF asking me to limit myself to only hunting down one of them a day, and the KHH has expressed concerns
asking if I was lumping them in with my challenge to the KBF or if they might be spared my attentions on the server.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

-As for the minor houses- I'm still heavily leaning toward a draft- the minor houses have everything stacked against them. .

The Origional server concept of a draft for all was scrapped, so why not let any minor houses that are conquered go where they will?  I think players would put more time in if they could be where they wanted to be, besides they have to start a new account anyhow, that should be punishment enough.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I am still looking at a PVP HP system, it's unfortunately one of those things that won't please everyone, so as long
as it benefits me in some small way I'll be happy with it.

Translation:  Damn Chuut is a genius!  I tried to find a fault with his system but I couldn't find one, guess I'll have to delay any descisions on this until people forget Chuut came up with the idea, so that I can claim it as my own!   

It is a far better way than having guys trying to gangbang opponents and out hull class them for PvP VCs, that tactic will be good enough for map control with disengagement penalty.  Make the true Klingon warriors have to prove themselves without having any advantages to prop them up. 

[Hexx]

Chuut, while I would certainly admit you have some small genius in doing up those photoshop jobs I
don't think I'm willing to extend it beyond that just yet.. 

Problem with awarding bonus VP's for ship classes is that they don't always match up (imho)
FDW (as an example- although I'm not sure if it will be present or not) -is as excellent PVP ship, likely
more than a match for a D7W, I'd even argue that a DWL is a better (or near equal) PVP ship to the D7W- yet the D7W
is a CCH, and the other's are NCA's.
(of course I could be mistaken- my impression has always been CL- CW- NCA- CA- CC- CCH- BC)
BPV would work- but then it requires people (ie me) to search throgh all the ships to figure out which has the higher
BPV.

[Riskyllama]

i know this is prolly gonna sound real stupid, but instead of putting v in front of every ship's name, why not have like a 1-9 where FFs are 1 DD-2 light cruisers-3...etc?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut, while I would certainly admit you have some small genius in doing up those photoshop jobs I
don't think I'm willing to extend it beyond that just yet.. 

Problem with awarding bonus VP's for ship classes is that they don't always match up (imho)
FDW (as an example- although I'm not sure if it will be present or not) -is as excellent PVP ship, likely
more than a match for a D7W, I'd even argue that a DWL is a better (or near equal) PVP ship to the D7W- yet the D7W
is a CCH, and the other's are NCA's.
(of course I could be mistaken- my impression has always been CL- CW- NCA- CA- CC- CCH- BC)
BPV would work- but then it requires people (ie me) to search throgh all the ships to figure out which has the higher
BPV.

Well the other system was awarding points for worse matchups than a D7w vs DWL.  BPV is a silly way to do it, hull class is simple.  If the shiplist is the same for all, noone can reasonably complain as they couls all be in DWLs.

Additionally you could always put those lower case "v"s on vanilla ships and call them 1 hull class less if you wanted 

[Dfly]

actually you die fighting superior numbers as a Klingon, you are a dead Hero, but a Hero none the less.  I would think a token point should be put by the dead Klingon if he actually fought it out  when outnumbered and not SD just to get the point(SD to save a capture at end of battle would be acceptable).