Topic: KCW for Dummies

[Hexx]

OK since the only things that are apearing on the forums these days either give you
the choice of helping Bonk or Scippy out, or bashing my ideas I thought I'd collect my thoughts on KCW stuff
here
 
I've tenatively called it "KCW for Dummies" (patent pending)
<snicker>
<chortle>
<Don't worry Hexx, they'll never figure out you're talking about them, <heehee>
we're much to clever for that.>

KCW will be a 3 week server encompassing the years 2277-2279

** It's important to note that only stuff I post in this thread is what I'm considering**

The server (if technically feasible) will be a battle amongst 6 Houses
-there will be no draft, anyone may sign up for any house, but you may only
fly for one house
-I would like KBF (those who wish) and KHH to fly as separate houses, but (of course)
will not dictate who may fly for what house.
-
Map

-Map will be smaller than AOTK2 size (likely the size of Mirror) and will NOT be
divided into traditional boundries. Each of the factions controls planets and bases
across the Empire, your holdings will be centered around your homeworld, but you will
have territory spread all over the map.
-   I would like to have non-mandatory missions in neutral space, but am waiting for
word on how this effects things.
-   Bases will be destroyable, but tough , with the lack of droners etc, they may
be  unkillable

Ships
-Droners /Escorts/Carriers/ will all be removed. All such ships are directly controlled
by the Fleet, the fleet has vowed to serve the Empire, they don’t care who controls it.
-The FDW will not be available, the FD7K/R likely will
-DN’s will probably not be available
-BCH’s will (of course) be available. Each house may field 2 C7’s (or if DN’s are included 1DN + 1C7)
-Any other available ships are freely available
-PF squadrons may be available as the only “fleetable” units. This will depend on
how well Squadron Commander works and if it proves unbalancing.
In any event it would very likely be squadrons of the Disrupter PF’s (G1s?) not the
Drone PF’s

VP’s

The server will have 2 sets of VP objectives
1)   The traditional “land grab” – if you control the territory, you control the Empire
VP’s will not be awarded as such , but will require you to control a number of
resources & strategic locations around the Empire
     
2)   Honour – What is a Klingon without Honour (actually an Original series I suppose, but anyway – the Houses all accumulate honour as warriors.fight
You gain honour for participating in PVP fights.

If you win you gain 2 points for your house, if you win and capture your opponent you gain 3 points. If you lose (but fight well) you gain one. If you lose without fighting well (or are capped) you gain nothing.
If you so desire you may arrange a fight on GSA (or in a particular hex)
Such a battle can be on any terms you desire (1v1,2v2,2v1) and will gain more honour points for the winner.
(You can of course also arrange to meet someone without it being about HP’s)

The main thing to remember is it only counts for honour if all pilots agree  to it beforehand, or at the start of the mission


The Houses (explained)

There will be three(3) main houses
There will be between 2-5 minor houses (I doubt more than 3)

Short of an amazing-never-before-seen-on-the-D2-effort- the minor houses won't be able to win.
The minor house will have minor holdings and a minor shiplist.

It will be nearly impossible to wipe out a major house
It will be difficult, but certainly possible to wipe out a minor house
If you are in a house that is wiped out, you get tossed into a draft.
This means that you start another character in your new house.
You prestige will (likely) not follow you. (You have no prestige, you gots defeated remember?)

Given that it is entirely possible for someone to play hard, rack up 100K prestige as a member of
a minor house, go to bed and log back in to find out you're house has no more territory, I don't expect large numbers of players
to sign up for minor houses.
I wouldn't be surprised (in any event) if all the minors have been removed by the last week.








           

 

 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I like most of these ideas.  I do have a question about the minor houses, however.  What is their role?  It seems like they can't win, and you start a new account when you get folded into a new house.  So what effect did you have on the game?

Do major houses gain points for absorbing minor houses?

(Gee, I hope no one reads much into the fact that I was the first to respond to the "KCW for Dummies" thread.)

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

(Gee, I hope no one reads much into the fact that I was the first to respond to the "KCW for Dummies" thread.)

-S'Cipio

Yeah, dummies might feel insulted 

[Grim]

I also have a query concerning the minor houses, as you have stated in the rules the minor houses cannot win, they have a limited shiplist, area of space etc. My query is this, don't you feel it may be difficult to get people to volunteer sign up to a house that has no chance whatsoever of winning? I have no idea on the proportion of the player base who play to win at all cost, or those that play for fun and to hell with the result at the end of the campaign. If the win at all costs mentality is quite high in the current player base you may have problems signing up for a smaller house.

You have also proposed the idea that once a minor house has been eliminated the players from that house will be placed into a draft to join one of the main houses. This to me poses another possible problem, you have stated that the minor houses will have a limited shiplist so ship wise the larger houses will have an advantage. From past experience some players don’t like the fact that someone may have an advantage and deem that say unfair. If for example a player in the smaller house is getting blown up repeatedly by better ships than his own this may make the player decide what’s the point and deciding to not fly on the server again.

I know that the plan related to my question is that once the house has been eliminated the players will be put into a major house and their shiplist choices will improve, chances to win increase etc but some players may simplly decide they have had enough before this process is implemented.

[Hexx]

The major players in KCW will (of course) be the major houses

The Minor Houses will have their own sets of victory conditions (really they're a tad more PVP oriented)

If 5 people sign up to fly for the 3 minor houses that's (quite honestly) fine by me.

-The minor houses are there for
A) Roleplay purposes
B) They can help peole get uses to some of the Klink ships without costing a major house
    any points for a loss
C) * Kinda* a PVP house- if someone has *NO* attachments or loyalties to another group then they
    can fly for the minor houses getting a (hopefully) fair amount of PVP in , before someone decides to
    eradicate it.

- The minor ones are there for fun only- really the only way any of them will be around at the end of the
server is if they have apilot who is superfantastic at hex flipping and pvp and can spend 24/7 on the server.

There will be bonuses for a major house taking out one of the small ones.
These will still apply even if no one has signed up for the minor house.
They will be by no means game breaking.

And yes- the minor houses will be completely unfair to fly for-
It's being stated, it will be stated (assuming I keep them in) when the rules are formalized
If you play for a minor house it's entirely possible you will go to sign on and
find out you have nowhere to resuply.

[LordSaxon]

2)   Honour – What is a Klingon without Honour (actually an Original series I suppose, but anyway – the Houses all accumulate honour as warriors.fight
You gain honour for participating in PVP fights.

If you win you gain 2 points for your house, if you win and capture your opponent you gain 3 points. If you lose (but fight well) you gain one. If you lose without fighting well (or are capped) you gain nothing.
If you so desire you may arrange a fight on GSA (or in a particular hex)
Such a battle can be on any terms you desire (1v1,2v2,2v1) and will gain more honour points for the winner.
(You can of course also arrange to meet someone without it being about HP’s)

The main thing to remember is it only counts for honour if all pilots agree  to it beforehand, or at the start of the mission

Who will decide if you "fought well?" Why should a player choose whether the situation is good for them to call it a "Honor" match? If you're caught low on supplies or in a smaller ship then such is the fight. Allowing Klingons to choose seems merciful, and mercy is for the weak!

2 points for a kill is good. An extra point for a capture is silly, do you score 3 if the marines were there but I self destruct?
All PvP battles should be reported and score points according to the end result. Maybe:
Destroying an enemy ship and suffering NO (ZERO!) internal damage: 3 points
Destroying enemy and sustaining damage internally to you                : 2 ponts
Being destroyed by the enemy                                                     : 1 point
The enemy flees the map like a coward                                         : 1 point

Adjustments for multi-player example:
 1) Kreug and I Die fighting Chutt and Soreyes, both of them damaged: 2 points us, 4 points them.
 2) We Die, but kill Soreyes and Chutt took zero internals:  3 points to us, 5 points them.
 3) I fly off the map , Kreug Dies, and they both live but took damage: 1 point us, 3 points them.
 4) We flee the map after killing Chutt, neither taking internal damage: 3 points to us, 2 points to them.

Each player scores the highest point value on the rung they qualify for.

Being outnumbered adds a +1 to appropriate scoring
1) I kill Dizzy but Diehard blasts me in a 2v1. DH took internals: 3 for me, 3 for them. DH took no internals would be 4 points each team.
The outnumbering team do not all score separate points for a singular ship's demise, but would still score the point for being killed.

Tried to keep it short and simple for easy posting of the battles.  i.e :

Had a battle today 3v3. My whole team died, killed one of them and damaged the other two: 4 points us, 6 points them.

Kreug, Duck and I killed Mutilator and Hexx. We all took damage but survived: 4 points us, 3 points them.
IF they had killed one of us: we get 5 points, they get 5 also. IF they had killed 2 of us we get 5 they get 6!

I think its a fair scoring system giving kudos to sticking it out when outgunned, and adds the klingon mentality of Death before Dishonor and praise for fighting to the end.

LordSaxon

[FPF-DieHard]

Saxxon's system seems good but I'm wondering if it is too complicated.

[Hexx]

I like Sax's system, and I'd have no problems adding it up- as long as we can keep everything to one post
with only ONE person reporting from a fight- I think the big problem with SGO4s system was that you sometimes had 2 or 3
people posting on a single fight- maybe victor only posts...

Anyway the idea of the "fought well" thing was essentially that the opponent tried, I couldn't think of a reason why anyone would,
but I didn't want a situation arrising where someone racked up a ton of honour points by SDing at mission start.

Good Post Sax ! 

[KHH-MiniMe]

Who will decide if you "fought well?" Why should a player choose whether the situation is good for them to call it a "Honor" match? If you're caught low on supplies or in a smaller ship then such is the fight. Allowing Klingons to choose seems merciful, and mercy is for the weak!

2 points for a kill is good. An extra point for a capture is silly, do you score 3 if the marines were there but I self destruct?
All PvP battles should be reported and score points according to the end result. Maybe:
Destroying an enemy ship and suffering NO (ZERO!) internal damage: 3 points
Destroying enemy and sustaining damage internally to you                : 2 ponts
Being destroyed by the enemy                                                     : 1 point
The enemy flees the map like a coward                                         : 1 point

Adjustments for multi-player example:
 1) Kreug and I Die fighting Chutt and Soreyes, both of them damaged: 2 points us, 4 points them.
 2) We Die, but kill Soreyes and Chutt took zero internals:  3 points to us, 5 points them.
 3) I fly off the map , Kreug Dies, and they both live but took damage: 1 point us, 3 points them.
 4) We flee the map after killing Chutt, neither taking internal damage: 3 points to us, 2 points to them.

Each player scores the highest point value on the rung they qualify for.

Being outnumbered adds a +1 to appropriate scoring
1) I kill Dizzy but Diehard blasts me in a 2v1. DH took internals: 3 for me, 3 for them. DH took no internals would be 4 points each team.
The outnumbering team do not all score separate points for a singular ship's demise, but would still score the point for being killed.

Tried to keep it short and simple for easy posting of the battles.  i.e :

Had a battle today 3v3. My whole team died, killed one of them and damaged the other two: 4 points us, 6 points them.

Kreug, Duck and I killed Mutilator and Hexx. We all took damage but survived: 4 points us, 3 points them.
IF they had killed one of us: we get 5 points, they get 5 also. IF they had killed 2 of us we get 5 they get 6!

I think its a fair scoring system giving kudos to sticking it out when outgunned, and adds the klingon mentality of Death before Dishonor and praise for fighting to the end.

LordSaxon

I think if a Klingon leaves the map he should cost his unit 5 points (since we cant really stick them with some sort of klink knife thingy)

And a more likely scoring scenario will be Duck and Jakle battle LK and LS........

[Pojo92]

Who will decide if you "fought well?" Why should a player choose whether the situation is good for them to call it a "Honor" match? If you're caught low on supplies or in a smaller ship then such is the fight. Allowing Klingons to choose seems merciful, and mercy is for the weak!

2 points for a kill is good. An extra point for a capture is silly, do you score 3 if the marines were there but I self destruct?
All PvP battles should be reported and score points according to the end result. Maybe:
Destroying an enemy ship and suffering NO (ZERO!) internal damage: 3 points
Destroying enemy and sustaining damage internally to you                : 2 ponts
Being destroyed by the enemy                                                     : 1 point
The enemy flees the map like a coward                                         : 1 point

Adjustments for multi-player example:
 1) Kreug and I Die fighting Chutt and Soreyes, both of them damaged: 2 points us, 4 points them.
 2) We Die, but kill Soreyes and Chutt took zero internals:  3 points to us, 5 points them.
 3) I fly off the map , Kreug Dies, and they both live but took damage: 1 point us, 3 points them.
 4) We flee the map after killing Chutt, neither taking internal damage: 3 points to us, 2 points to them.

Each player scores the highest point value on the rung they qualify for.

Being outnumbered adds a +1 to appropriate scoring
1) I kill Dizzy but Diehard blasts me in a 2v1. DH took internals: 3 for me, 3 for them. DH took no internals would be 4 points each team.
The outnumbering team do not all score separate points for a singular ship's demise, but would still score the point for being killed.

Tried to keep it short and simple for easy posting of the battles.  i.e :

Had a battle today 3v3. My whole team died, killed one of them and damaged the other two: 4 points us, 6 points them.

Kreug, Duck and I killed Mutilator and Hexx. We all took damage but survived: 4 points us, 3 points them.
IF they had killed one of us: we get 5 points, they get 5 also. IF they had killed 2 of us we get 5 they get 6!

I think its a fair scoring system giving kudos to sticking it out when outgunned, and adds the klingon mentality of Death before Dishonor and praise for fighting to the end.

LordSaxon

I think if a Klingon leaves the map he should cost his unit 5 points (since we cant really stick them with some sort of klink knife thingy)

And a more likely scoring scenario will be Duck and Jakle battle LK and LS........

I like MiniMe's proposal.

[Hexx]

I'd rather you guys stick each otehr with Knives personally ..

<Hexx ponders how easy that would make his victories..>

I'm trying to find a balance for KCW- something that balances the
PVP aspect- awards fighting- but doesn't penalize the guys who would
like to sit there and flip some hexes for their side. Giving up a point (by running) to me
seems kinda reasonable- giving up 5 is to penalizing.

I don't think alot of people will mind the PVP -ships should be (relatively) cheap, with
D5L's/D5W's/D7W/FD7k's making up the majority of ships flown
As I'd like to see the D5L at about 3kish, and a D7W at 6kish I think people will
be able to burn through the ships without worrying about the expense.

[Braxton_RIP]

Here is a question for you, Hexx: What is the approximate time frame from the server? Launch date, whatever... Takes a little more prep time with an arm and a leg in a cast lol.

[Hexx]

Here is a question for you, Hexx: What is the approximate time frame from the server? Launch date, whatever... Takes a little more prep time with an arm and a leg in a cast lol.

It will likely stat mid-late November , but I can move it up if it improves my chances for another PVP victory 

[el-Karnak]

You could always make the minor houses the Thollians.

[Hexx]

You could always make the minor houses the Thollians.

Nah I'm saving them for the ISC slot during ISC Invasion: Frogs Must Die.

[FPF-DieHard]

It will likely stat mid-late November , but I can move it up if it improves my chances for another PVP victory 

So we should expect this in January?

[Hexx]

It will likely stat mid-late November , but I can move it up if it improves my chances for another PVP victory 

So we should expect this in January?

Ah, another example of the wit that has congress considering the mandatory sterilization of all NJ public school graduates.

He'll be HEALED (I'd hope) by January you simp.

I might lose.

[el-Karnak]

It will likely stat mid-late November , but I can move it up if it improves my chances for another PVP victory 

So we should expect this in January?

Ah, another example of the wit that has congress considering the mandatory sterilization of all NJ public school graduates.

He'll be HEALED (I'd hope) by January you simp.

I might lose.

I think what the blue Andro NJ guy is trying to say is that you need the following done and finalized:

• map
• scripts
• shiplist

before you can even hope to put up a test server.

You probably should not start announcing server time frames until you have those 3 above items done first. Otherwise, any server start date announcements border way more on the side of speculation rather than material fact.

[Hexx]

It will likely stat mid-late November , but I can move it up if it improves my chances for another PVP victory 

So we should expect this in January?

Ah, another example of the wit that has congress considering the mandatory sterilization of all NJ public school graduates.

He'll be HEALED (I'd hope) by January you simp.

I might lose.

I think what the blue Andro NJ guy is trying to say is that you need the following done and finalized:

• map
• scripts
• shiplist

before you can even hope to put up a test server.

You probably should not start announcing server time frames until you have those 3 above items done first. Otherwise, any server start date announcements border way more on the side of speculation rather than material fact.

I think the blue balled NJ guy is doing is trying to make some snide comment about my PVP skillz.

Sides only thing i'm actually missing is scripts. (And a techie, and some players...)

[el-Karnak]

I think the blue balled NJ guy is doing is trying to make some snide comment about my PVP skillz.

Sides only thing i'm actually missing is scripts. (And a techie, and some players...)

Well, without a server admin and scripts then this server is going no where.  Total War EEK mission pack would work pretty well. It's what Hooch wanted to begin with a year ago cuz AI stripping is key in this dyna.  That should help your script problem and at least get the server up. then you can add/remove other scripts on the test server as you go. As for server admin., maybe you could ask Bonk to help.

Don't mean to put on my IT Manager hat here and be a little "business-like" and "demanding", but the last KCW server PR was pretty bad cuz no server announcement was credible for it for months at a time.