Topic: Mission Stability

[Hexx]

If I'm in need of a mission pack that can have 4-6 Empire sides (not sure about pirates) mix
it up in wild and ferocious melee will Tracey's lovely new missions work?

What about Karnaks?


Is it possible for a mission script to assign three (or more) sides in a mission? I know you can do 5 or 6
in GSA or direct whatver, can it happen on the D2?

And.... really not sure I want to get into this.. how hard would it be to change alliances "on the fly" during a server?
And of course how bad would that mess things up?

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

To get a mission script to work with more than two sides... the races have to be hardcoded, otherwise when enemies are darfted by a mutual enemy, they will be allied in the mission.

[Bonk]

And.... really not sure I want to get into this.. how hard would it be to change alliances "on the fly" during a server?
And of course how bad would that mess things up?

Not possible to the best of my knowledge, initial tensions in the db make sense, but the current tensions are complete gobbledegook to me (for both the SQL and flatfile db).

[el-Karnak]

And.... really not sure I want to get into this.. how hard would it be to change alliances "on the fly" during a server?
And of course how bad would that mess things up?

This is exactly what I want SQL for. I want to be able to change alliances on the ISC Invasion campaign, so I can simulate races being defeated, made neutral, and then co-erced to join the side that holds the hammer over them.

[SkyFlyer]

To get a mission script to work with more than two sides... the races have to be hardcoded, otherwise when enemies are darfted by a mutual enemy, they will be allied in the mission.

See TG... I told you that might be useful

[Hexx]

OK maybe I'm confusing missions with racial tensions

If I have say 6 sides in KCW -all of them Empire - will this work with the
normal mission pack

a) No, I'll need a special mission pack

b)yes, except that if a hex happens to have 3 (or 4,5,or even 6) pilots of different
races then they will be randomnly assigned a side for the mission?

c) yes, but the server will crash before the 3 weeks are up.

d) <enter other effect here>

[FPF-DieHard]

What about total war missions?   Will they do what Hexx wants?

[Bonk]

You will need a special mission pack, TW at a minimum.

I suspect that EEK TW missions will have the desired effect. (some may still have no coop PP issues however). I was under the impression that a script can have up to six teams, not just two... but I'll have to take a peek at the scripting api.... edit: yes, six teams...

[GDA-S'Cipio]

And.... really not sure I want to get into this.. how hard would it be to change alliances "on the fly" during a server?
And of course how bad would that mess things up?

Not possible to the best of my knowledge, initial tensions in the db make sense, but the current tensions are complete gobbledegook to me (for both the SQL and flatfile db).

It can be done, at least it could in EAW.

I did it by hand for The Four Powers war to ally the Feds with the Mirak.  (Their Hydran allies proved too far away, and for the first day of the server there was a large section of their border where they drew Klinks as allies and enemies in the same mission.)

Skull did it twice in CW5, to swap the Hydrans and Lyrans over to the ISC side.

As I recall, there was a matrix in the DB that gave each race's tension settings toward every other race.  I think the EDDBEDT program will alter the Imperial tensions towards one another, but was not programmed to look at pirate factions.  This tool is of limited use since it loses it's ability to read the DB shortly after server launch, but a look a the source code Dave provided might show what it was trying to do.

-S'Cipio

[Bonk]

Good idea, I have the OP political tensionmatrix partially decoded (initial but not the arcane current values) unless perhaps the current values are not used at all and only initial values are used (note the testing note on th tension increment/decrement in the serverkit gfs). I used the eddbedit source to produce my flatfile webmap, but stopped at the political tensions.. I got a start on it... I can take another look...

[Hexx]

oooohh head starting to hurt..

I think it would be cool (actually it would be damn cool) if there were 3 or 4 players each on their own side
in a mission. Given the (I assume) relatively few times that would occur (as opposed to the more traditional 1 v1 )
I really don't want to get into a whole mess of scripts that may not work.

OK Servers can (and have) worked with 3 sides - what's the difference between this and 6 sides?

This is how I'd like it to work (if possible)

Server starts with 5-6 sides (all Empire)
All sides are at war with each other.

It would be nice if missions could have more than 2 sides, but it wouldn't be a necessity.
I'd rather have a better chance of stable 3v3's then 1v1v1v1v1v1 .

That's it- would that work? I can fold defeated houses into other houses rather than switch
the alliances , but would like to see at least 5 houses going at it.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Unfortunately the scripting API (and therefore the client code) has a maximum of 6 human players total in a mission (regardless of who they are allied with) but will support up to 20 teams including AI teams.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Why 5 to 6 sides? Seriously, we don't have a large enough committed player base for 5 or 6 sides.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Why 5 to 6 sides? Seriously, we don't have a large enough committed player base for 5 or 6 sides.

Agree pretty much with this.  Each side would need 15-20 pilots to make it interesting.

[Bonk]

Maybe another three sided server would work nicely?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

It would be nice if people would be frank with their ability to commit to major campaigns and then gauge if we can balance the sides. It shouldn't be left to blame RMs at the end of a server like I have seen, for not having "pimped" well enough when their side pulls a no show or disappearing act. Sure some RL proplems are bound to creep up, but we're generally a mature enough group to know what our schedules will be like.

[Hexx]

KCW will (I hope) have 5-6 sides
The sides (much like in traditional Civil Wars.. err take my word for it)
will likely not be balanced to within a few pilots of each other

Current set up is
-2 Houses have a very decent shot at winning
-Third house is very close to the first two- close enough
that with a sligth pilot edge they could take it
- Houses 4-6 will not have a huge chance of seizing
control of the Empire. They are more minor houses/ associations
of minor houses. They will be still be trying to do what they can
but have more limited resources

Basically Sides 1-3 will be the major contenders

If you want a little more PVP (at the moment) and don't really care
if you're side is facing an uphill (or upmountain-in a blizzard-wearing nothing but bowling shoes) struggle
then you can fly for one of the smaller houses.

[Corbomite]

Yes you can have 6 non-allied players in a mission. Its called FFA on GSA. t00l will be the first to sign up.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

KCW will (I hope) have 5-6 sides
The sides (much like in traditional Civil Wars.. err take my word for it)
will likely not be balanced to within a few pilots of each other

Current set up is
-2 Houses have a very decent shot at winning
-Third house is very close to the first two- close enough
that with a sligth pilot edge they could take it
- Houses 4-6 will not have a huge chance of seizing
control of the Empire. They are more minor houses/ associations
of minor houses. They will be still be trying to do what they can
but have more limited resources

Basically Sides 1-3 will be the major contenders

If you want a little more PVP (at the moment) and don't really care
if you're side is facing an uphill (or upmountain-in a blizzard-wearing nothing but bowling shoes) struggle
then you can fly for one of the smaller houses.

5 to 6 sides? Not wasting my time anymore hex flipping by myself.

[Hexx]

Then don't play by yourself maybe?

 honestly can't see what the issue is,
I can't see any of this as being a problem

3 major houses
the vast majority of players will fly for one of the three
join them and hex flip with dozens (well almost a-dozen)
people.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

  Aside from say the 9pm eastern to 1am eastern hours , the alliance from what I saw, showed poorly on aotk. The good feds on mirror got by on 6 or 7 regulars despite the numbers commited in the draft.( only 2 sides) My view is that more sides are bad with the player base so small and unable to reliably commit an effort.
  I hex flipped a lot on my own as it was strategically neccessary.  I don't want to feel that I have to nutter because of insufficent numbers on my side. Let's not have another major server where an RM feels the need to thank the few who stuck it out from an opposing side.

[Grim]

With the playerbase as it is currently, you sure you will get the numbers to be able to run 5-6 sides?

[ShadowLord]

A few quick comments

First off the last several posts including my own have nothing to do with stability issues and they should be moved over to the KCW post..

That being said people have raised a very valid point about the number of active players and a 6 sixed server. Perhaps a 3 sided server will still work and (if) your willing to change the way your looking at the pirate clans they can serve other purposes in the KCW.

Even from your inital description of the server I think you said the pirates would focus on PVP mission which was making me think that -- I would be an idea pirate.

Anyways I look forward to the continued development of ideas on this.

Duck

[FPF-DieHard]

5-6 side is just silly.  3 should be fine

[Dfly]

Well Duck, you most likely would get a wingman here for that.