Topic: I want TMP version of this ship. Compare TOS and TNG pics...

[ModelsPlease]

How about this ship ?????



http://www.nightsoft.net/mckinnleystation/jupiter.zip

[Dizzy]

Yeah, that's the shape idea, MP, but it's the Excelsior era, not TMP era design.

[Chris Johnson]

Yeah, that's the shape idea, MP, but it's the Excelsior era, not TMP era design.

If I remember correctly, the Yamato-class (experimental) battleship (designed for the game Klingon Academy) was built during the "Excelsior-era" (generally a part of the "TMP-era" designation).  I believe the year KA took place was 2291, placing the design of that battleship at that time as well.  And looking at the design, although original, the design seems influenced by three Starship classes: The (refit) Constitution-class (nacelles and deflector dishes at least), Miranda-class (the basic roll-bar design), and the Excelsior-class (The overall hull design influence).

Here's some colalges of in-game screenshots of the Yamato-class Battleship from Klingon Academy:





I hope this helps...

[Rogue]

This submition made should someone decide to take up the cause on this model.

A layout of the Yamato found long ago



Also a kitbash of the stock FBB by Knox. Geometry and textures have been altered and might make a better starting point.

http://www.battleclinic.com/docks/files/dist/index.php/file,ce262ac51ae85d149380c91560d615fb.zip

[ModelsPlease]

If anyone is gonna bash the FBB, this is a great candidate for the bash.



Original mesh and textures by Moonraker.
Texture bashed by Ganymad
http://www.the-tcs.net/_hosted/tgp-bs/downloads/feds/DN-BB/F-DN-Ulysses(GANY).zip

[S33K100]

Ganymad's textures have been bashed on to the many times superior version of the Ulysses by WickedZombie, and even then I prefer WZ's subtler style of texturing anyway, as has already been pointed out in this thread the hull-shape of the Ulysses is completely different to that of the Yamato, the nacelles and rollbar & torp launcher are about the only things worth using from the Ulysses, and even then that's only cause there's nothing that really resembles the Yamato nacelles in other designs.

[DuctTapeWonder]

Ganymad's textures have been bashed on to the many times superior version of the Ulysses by WickedZombie, and even then I prefer WZ's subtler style of texturing anyway, as has already been pointed out in this thread the hull-shape of the Ulysses is completely different to that of the Yamato, the nacelles and rollbar & torp launcher are about the only things worth using from the Ulysses, and even then that's only cause there's nothing that really resembles the Yamato nacelles in other designs.

Wicked Zombie........If you're reading this, please, please end our misery by just volunteering to make a new hi-res Yamato. I'm terribly frightened by the thought of the bastardized kitbash this thread is obviously leading to.

[Dizzy]

The Ulysses is already being... altered. Just wait and see...

[S33K100]

Wicked Zombie........If you're reading this, please, please end our misery by just volunteering to make a new hi-res Yamato. I'm terribly frightened by the thought of the bastardized kitbash this thread is obviously leading to.

Hey I'm the only one complaining about the bastardisation going on it seems, but I gotta say you'll never see a WZ Yamato for one simple reason - we've asked numerous times, he says he hates the design.

[Wicked Zombie]

Of course I hate it. It's a bastardized mockery of Starfleet engineering and design and deserves to be tossed into the lowest pit of the underworld and ravaged by demonic spirits for all eternity.

On second thought, scratch that. I don't want that thing anywhere near my coffee-table down here...

[DuctTapeWonder]

Of course I hate it. It's a bastardized mockery of Starfleet engineering and design and deserves to be tossed into the lowest pit of the underworld and ravaged by demonic spirits for all eternity.

On second thought, scratch that. I don't want that thing anywhere near my coffee-table down here...

Wicked Zombie. Out of morbid curosity, would you consider making an original design F-BB? I have looked at your Olympus Mons model and while I like the design, IMHO it dosent seem to have enough mass to justify all those engines and looks a little awkward to me. I was thinking something akin to your Ark Royal might be in order for a BB.

[Wicked Zombie]

The thought had crossed my mind, but I honestly don't have any real black magic left for the Feds beyond the occasional kitbash or retexture.

The Mars isn't really intended to be a realistic FBB as it's mainly based on the original SFB version, which also has problems that passed over to the refit. The second KA battleship, Missouri, is a whole other mess which is one reason why I haven't finished it either.

[battlestar001]

I love the desig of that Yomato From KA, Ive got one in my SFC game :pi think some one need to redo her. The SFC 2 and 1 Stock model doesent show the ship in the best light

[ModelsPlease]

If we are discussing a new FBB for the TMP era I would suggest these few points ..............

1) Stay away from SFB design thinking.
2) NO CONNIE bashes The connie is a heavy cruiser PERIOD. I agree with WZ. No bastardized bashes.
3) NO EXCELSIOR bashes. The Excelsior is a battlecruiser PERIOD.
4) A new hull design with proper mass, new nacelles (no oversize connie/excelsior ones) New texture design, a unique saucer.No oversized Miranda weapon bar.

An all new ship. 

P.S. I know this is gonna open a can of worms but......... SFC is based on SFB and FASA designs have become a big part of it as well. Known TMP ships pretty much the Excelsior is the biggest (cannon) ship. The connie was replaced by the Constellation-class and any FDN ( TOS era design or fan-fic TMP upgrade) would have been phased out by the Excelsior. IF the Excelsior was to be the Fed's big gun should we not use it as the FBB ? IF the federation had an FBB during the TMP era how big would it have been ? The Excelsior is 467m. Now even though we all know it never came to fluition the Ambassador-class at 526m WAS to replace the Excelsior and as the Fed's premier ship it did but not to decom the excels. Is it possible that until the Ambassador came online the Excelsior served as the FBB of the fleet ? Then was relegated to battlecruiser again as a larger ship was built ? If ya don't agree with my line of thinking perhaps a FASA design should be considered as the FBB though most are no more than Connie/Excel varients/bashes...

http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/federation/indomitable.gif

Funny thing is even the Starship Tactical simulator lists the Excel as an FBB. Just stuff to ponder. 

I say NEW SHIP at 500m in length 

[Dizzy]

While that would be neat, MP, I've not known where any dynaverse has ever built more than one... So wouldnt it make more sense for the feds to use existing ship systems and designs to put together a BB? I mean, they are so expensive and such that not more than several would ever be made... If that is the case, then it's safe to assume that a shipyard or manufacturing facility wouldnt be constructed because they arnt intended for production.

I still think a DN saucer, weapons rollbar and 2x aft hulls each with 2 warps would be the ticket... I mean, with those resources, you are looking at taking a DN saucer, two heavy cruiser aft hulls and 4 warps... Those kinds of parts and pieces I could see the feds getting their hands on easily enough. Putting it all together and making it work is a different matter.

Furthermore, if you count the weapon systems each of the components has, 2x hvy cruiser aft hulls and a DN saucer with a rollbar, you get approximately the kinds of weapons configuration the BB is supposed to have.

There's a little bit of dark matter fed black magic yet...

[ModelsPlease]

I see and conceed your point Dizzy. SO I have to go back to what I said in my last post, and your point is very valid. EXPENSE. I don't think even though I know ya want a new ship to replace the stock FBB that there EVER WAS an FBB. I think it's the Excelsior. And based on this I submit this following shiplist........

TMP shiplist

FBB
Excelsior (Ent B refit)
Excelsior

FCV
Thru-deck carriers

FDN
Federation-class (Franz Joseph) TMP refit


FBC
Triton-class (FASA)
Belknap-class (Ships of Starfleet)

FCA
Constellation-class
Enterprise-class (Ent-A ST VI)
Andor-class
North Hampton
Constitution-class ( ST TMP)
Chandley-class

FCL
Miranda ( Reliant)
Miranda (Soyuz)
Miranda
Brenton
Baker
Durret

FDD
Thufir
Larson
Baker
Wilkerson
Abbe
Akyazi

FFF
Kiev
Remora
Oberth
Ranger
Loknar

Scout/Corvette
Scorpio
Solar

Comments and additions welcome 

[Dizzy]

There are 3x schools of thought here... FASA, SFB, and MINE.

[Centurus]

SFC was based on SFB, and FASA designs have become mainstream in the SFB world, but, let us not forget that SFC is a game all its own, and therefore, I agree with MP that a brand new design should be made, however, I don't agree that the new ship shouldn't have design elements from older, more tried and tested designs, which have stood the test of time.  I'm not saying oversized, bastardized bashes.  Just new designs, with hints of older ships in their design philosophy. 

In canon Trek, the Feds never had a BB, and DNs were viewed as a contradiction to Starfleet's very nature of peaceful exploration, at least from what I have read on the subject in the past. 

I do not agree that the Excelsior was ever a BB at anytime, or even a DN.  BCH, yes, in size and firepower based on the standards of the time, and the Enterprise B would have been an improved BCH, and by BCH, I mean Battle Cruiser/Heavy Battle Cruiser.

It is evident that as technology progressed, and tensions within the galaxy always changing, that Starfleet, just like other races, built bigger ships with more advanced technology.  I do agree that the Ambassadors were supposed to replace the Excelsiors as the frontline explorer in the fleet, but it didn't happen, but, they did take over as the battle cruisers in the fleet, which put the Excelsiors in the role of Heavy Cruiser.

It is believed that the Ambassador production was cut short of its intended goals.  I don't believe this to be true, personally that is.  They are more than likely still being produced, just not as fast as previously intended.  But I am starting to go way off track here, so I'll try and get back on track.

I do believe that if there was a BB in the TMP era, she would be bigger than the Excelsiors.  Maybe she would dwarf the Ambassadors but only a tiny margin.  She would be a completely new design, but share design traits with those of the Constitution-class and the Excelsior-class.  Reason for the Connies is that at the time they were the most successful design ever created, and the Excelsior-class because, short of the transwarp drive, the Excelsior was a very stable, viable design, with the systems designed for her being adapted to the entire Starfleet, refitting all current ships in service. 

Just my thoughts.

[Dizzy]

Daihak, the FBB has a release availability of 2275. That places it squarely when the CC+ (TOS?) was upgraded to a heavy command cruiser, or CCH, called the CB. The Excelsior didnt come out till 2283. So that design influence can be thrown out completely.

If ever there were TMP look to SFB or SFC, it was in 2275. Because in 2282, the CX came out. That's technically the NCC 1701-A. So TMP influence carried far over into the excelsior era... But that's not what we are talking about.

I'm talking about a BB that came out in 2275. A couple years after the Miranda class which was TMP as well. So if it makes any sense, either the CC+ was TOS design and the BB was built in tandem using the new technology for the CB (TMP) ships and a DN saucer somewhere or the CC+ was already TMP design and the CC was TOS and that way the parts were already lying round for the Feds to slap it together.

Makes no sense to completely design a whole new class from the keel up... Not for a ship that isnt being put into production. That's like the US Navy going out of their way to build an entirely new shipyard and supporting infrastructure for a one of a kind Trimaran Hulled Battleship. It's inconcievable because the technology and components to be used are untested and to develop a supporting infrastructure and brand new shipyard just for the explicit purpose of making ONE ship... is, well, you get the idea.

All I want is someone to take this TOS design and convert it to TMP. Shouldnt be too terribly tough.

[Centurus]

Dizzy, you didn't understand at all what I was saying, also you are going solely based on SFB.  That may be your decision, it does not have to be the rule.

I agree with some of your time estimates on starship introduction. 

It is well believed that the Excelsior herself was in design phases around the mid-2270s, so which means some of the early design influences may very well have found themselves into the major refit of the Enterprise in 2271.  This may or may not be the case, but it is a valid view none the less.

I also agree with the time the Excelsior herself was ready for trial runs, circa 2282-2283. 

Anyway you choose to look at it, if Starfleet chose to build a BB in TMP era, they wouldn't necessarily use existing parts laying around to simply bash one together.  They might, but that's not saying that they have to, or most likely would.  It is very plasuible that they would design such a ship, using tested and established technology, namely from the Constitution Refit, as their primary source.  This doesn't, however mean they would use spare parts from the Connies to bash it.  They might use some of the same pieces.  More than likely. 

But, for the most part, she would be a new design, sharing many of the design lineage from the Constitutions, and even some from the Excelsiors, since it is reasonable to assume that even in 2275, the Excelsior herself was on the drawing board at least, if not the hull was being constructed.  And the BB would be something that they would bring out only in times of desperation, like you said.

I do agree with you on one thing about the FBB you want done in TMP, I would like to see it re-done too.  The stock model is very poor, and in desperate need of updating.