Topic: Weigh in: New server features. Post your thoughts.

[Bonk]

Note that terraforming and scorched earth require a server reboot even if it were done instantaneously from an SQL mission script... (see where I added a planet on the live map for The Forge, Hexx could supply on it etc, but it did not appear on the map until I rebooted the server...

I did some experimenting with transporting people across the map and assigning them new ships, changing shipnames, changing hex race ownership, changing DVs etc.. What I discovered is that the changes do not take effect until a map update is done. Maps only get a full update when you either log into the server, or complete a mission, after which the map appears normal and shows the change. I have not tested it with changing terrain types though, but perhaps this may also work in a smiliar fashion. Something to add to the list.

Yes, that occured to me, but I logged in, forcing a map update after the live edit (I was not on the server when I made the edit) and the planet did not appear on the map until the server was rebooted.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Note that terraforming and scorched earth require a server reboot even if it were done instantaneously from an SQL mission script... (see where I added a planet on the live map for The Forge, Hexx could supply on it etc, but it did not appear on the map until I rebooted the server...

I did some experimenting with transporting people across the map and assigning them new ships, changing shipnames, changing hex race ownership, changing DVs etc.. What I discovered is that the changes do not take effect until a map update is done. Maps only get a full update when you either log into the server, or complete a mission, after which the map appears normal and shows the change. I have not tested it with changing terrain types though, but perhaps this may also work in a smiliar fashion. Something to add to the list.

Yes, that occured to me, but I logged in, forcing a map update after the live edit (I was not on the server when I made the edit) and the planet did not appear on the map until the server was rebooted.

Sounds like a full update isnt hapenning then. This might be possible to fix in the source code, but could be a client issue as well.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

-And I *really* don't like the BB building idea at all. The only thing you can do if your opponent builds a BB of any kind
is either build one yourself, or convince your opponent to let a Gorn fly it around a planet/really big asteroid.

Call 1-800-BASTARD and Chuut will take care of that pesky BBV for you at a reasonable price.  Be sure to check out our 2 for 1 deal if you want a planet gones as well, kill millions of Gorn with 1 very big stone so to speak.   

[FPF-DieHard]

-And I *really* don't like the BB building idea at all. The only thing you can do if your opponent builds a BB of any kind
is either build one yourself, or convince your opponent to let a Gorn fly it around a planet/really big asteroid.

Call 1-800-BASTARD and Chuut will take care of that pesky BBV for you at a reasonable price.  Be sure to check out our 2 for 1 deal if you want a planet gones as well, kill millions of Gorn with 1 very big stone so to speak.   

I can't believe I missed that jewel.   I really need to actually READ Hexx's posts once in a while.

[Riskyllama]

Pretty much means that if you REALLY want that BBV, you will be the Louis XIV of your empire   
  SBB/V:  16
  BBV:  14
  BB:    12
  CVA:  8
  DN:    6
  BC/V: 4

PPS:   I advise using a seperate Point system for X-tech/XP tech if used.

With my 16 total points to  have on the board, whats the difference between 14 and 16?

I personally wouldnt mind seeing CAs worth 1 or 2 compared to these costs. In AOTK2, I lost at least 10 CAWs/CAYs which although not BCHs would hurt my race's economy in a more real world situation. These losses however started dropping off as I flew with/under the best and brightest of the Kitties(oddly enough I never winged with Hexx, go figure...) possibly making newer captains worth teaching and protecting and holding on to better. You guys seem strapped for new blood, you might as well make every effort to hold on to it as you get it.

[el-Karnak]

- Ship kills are worth the following DV points:

BB:    11
CVA:  8
DN:    6
BC/V: 4
CV:    2  (8 or more ftrs)
All other ships: 1

Not all ships should be worth VCs.   This makes new players a liability and not an assest, it rewards picking on newbs and small ships and penalizes being merciful and letting people fly off.   This is bad for the game.

VCs only belong on capital ships, X-tech, and Speialty ships.

An H-RN/RN+/MHK has 8 fighters and is not a CV.   The definition needs to be more clearly defined.

Ships probably should not be worth VCs. On AOTK2, newbie players and veteran duellists had lotsa fun cuz there's less pressure in losing the capital ships they fly. There are better ways to reward capital ship kills. Like use penalty box rules.

[el-Karnak]

You've got it... we're going to probably run all the above without SQL scripts, (careful scheduling) but hopefully if we can prove a stable SQL server, SQL mission scripting will then be worthwhile. Note that terraforming and scorched earth require a server reboot even if it were done instantaneously from an SQL mission script... (see where I added a planet on the live map for The Forge, Hexx could supply on it etc, but it did not appear on the map until I rebooted the server... so some kit code modification would be required to make it fully instantaneous...) and as an aside drb and I were discussing removing the "forfeit" option from the mission selection screen altogether if possible without the client code as every forfeit puts such a hideous load on the the serverkit... or find a way to remove that load...

Also, regarding a non-web-browser-based approach, I have yet to check out the latest ACSIII client (http://www.r-pex.com/) which I had promised feedback on and possibly participation in for such purposes... from what I gather, they have made a good start, we could share technologies hopefully...

GDA-Kel figured out a way to register bonus DV for PvP kills without using specialized mission scripts when he ran his SQL dynas on EAW.  If we used Oracle as the back-end database, we could use triggers to filter out the PvP wins and put in the bonus DV.  Ideally, this func. should be done in a middle-ware win32 DLL, so that it is DB vendor neutral.

From an architectural point of view, a dynaverse server operates much like a web server.  The physical layer is the database (dinosaur age flatfile or SQL), a virtually non-existent business rule layer (middle-ware objects stored procs., and com/atl objects),and the client layer (C++ win32 coded mission scripts).

It is always very inefficient to overload the client layer by using fat client mission scripts. But, with the dino flatfile DB, we had no choice but to shove most of the business rule functionality in the mission scripts.  This results is a disjointed set of client objects that are not harmonized with each other.  Only the shiplist.txt file has allowed some flexibility by regulating spares, and other ship releted func.  No matter what mission scripts you use, the ship's spares are controlled by the shiplist.txt file. So, try and keep as much func. out of the mission scripts, where it's hard-coded, and instead put it in the back-end DB.

Missions are meant to write a story, not start embedding hard-coded business rules with each individual mission scripter making it up as they go.  Only business rules that should be in scripts are of a macro-nature that set boundaries to define the SFC domain.  For example, any realistic SFB universe game won't have DNs popping up everytime a BCH player runs a mission on the dyna.  The maps should be of a standardized size unless it's a specialized mission.  There should be an standardized level of difficulty in the mission no matter what ship the player flies, AI in late era don't always use slow drones, etc.

So, the sooner we get SQL, the better.

[Dizzy]

Ships probably should not be worth VCs. On AOTK2, newbie players and veteran duellists had lotsa fun cuz there's less pressure in losing the capital ships they fly. There are better ways to reward capital ship kills. Like use penalty box rules.

I personally wouldnt mind seeing CAs worth 1 or 2 compared to these costs. In AOTK2, I lost at least 10 CAWs/CAYs which although not BCHs would hurt my race's economy in a more real world situation.

Risky, your 10 CA losses in my example above would amount to 10 DV's being awarded to the other side. What is the difference between that and what we have been talking about PvP missions awarding a 2 DV shift? They are the same.

[FPF-DieHard]

Ships probably should not be worth VCs. On AOTK2, newbie players and veteran duellists had lotsa fun cuz there's less pressure in losing the capital ships they fly. There are better ways to reward capital ship kills. Like use penalty box rules.

I personally wouldnt mind seeing CAs worth 1 or 2 compared to these costs. In AOTK2, I lost at least 10 CAWs/CAYs which although not BCHs would hurt my race's economy in a more real world situation.

Risky, your 10 CA losses in my example above would amount to 10 DV's being awarded to the other side. What is the difference between that and what we have been talking about PvP missions awarding a 2 DV shift? They are the same.

Um, dizzy, you get the DVs when you kill somebody anyway.

[Dizzy]

You get 1 DV. We were talking previously about a mission awarding 2 for PvP battles.

[FPF-DieHard]

You get 1 DV. We were talking previously about a mission awarding 2 for PvP battles.

Gotcha, I understand now.   DVs, not VCs.   

[762_XC]

Ditch the battleships.

And include the I-CCX in that category.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Ditch the battleships.

And include the I-CCX in that category.

You know, with all the grief that the ISC gets, and the way this community operates in general, I'm surprised that I'm not in charge of over half of you.

With all the frequent calls to nerf / ruin / remove / screw with all the ISC ships, you'd think that they were 100% instant win vehicles...

Then, with the fact that many people here only play to win (not play to have fun, see how many people tend to desert losing efforts), I'm shocked that these people don't fly the "100% instant-win ISC" race...

[Corbomite]

Don't waste your breath Julin. Most people only like cheese on one side of their cracker.

[FPF-DieHard]

Don't waste your breath Julin. Most people only like cheese on one side of their cracker.

Who you callin a cracka? 

[Hexx]

Ditch the battleships.

And include the I-CCX in that category.

You know, with all the grief that the ISC gets, and the way this community operates in general, I'm surprised that I'm not in charge of over half of you.

With all the frequent calls to nerf / ruin / remove / screw with all the ISC ships, you'd think that they were 100% instant win vehicles...

Then, with the fact that many people here only play to win (not play to have fun, see how many people tend to desert losing efforts), I'm shocked that these people don't fly the "100% instant-win ISC" race...

Please- they'd have to be cheese-munching hos like you yourslef to wanna fly one of those ships.

In any event it was t00l complaining, poor guy gets confused if he hasn't won the mission
15 seconds after hitting "launch fighters"

[el-Karnak]

So, when's the last time an ISC player hosted a big-time dyna?

Probably never, AFAIK.

People are not perfect and they are gonna to have certain tendencies with regards to balance,  You can definitely see distinct differences in dyna styles between players like Fluf, DH, and Jeff.

It's also unfortunate that some players will pretty much a boycott a dyna if they don't get exactly what they want. I've seen players from all races take part in this practice.  I can understand if the server is too unstable, but over minor shiplist issues?  That's might be a little over-zealous.

If you want to build the community and make it stronger then that has to stop.  Not all dynas are gonna be perfect. Just suck it up and play. At least, you have a good big-time dyna to play on.

And, yes, we should have a dyna hosted by a Frog player. I just don't want to see any pouting going on cuz the ISC ships may be a little preferred.  Best way to avoid that is to not pout yourself when you see a dyna that you have non-server stability related issues with.  

I played on AoTK2 where the ISC ships were pretty much singled out by a Fed Admin. for "special treatment" regarding the disengagement rule.  Guess what?  I had the best time since SS2, and better yet ISC was on the winning side.

Now that's entertainment.  

Hey DH!! 

We FROGO-KITTIES are your OVERLORDS!!

[Hexx]

Hey, let's not be hatin on anonymous Fed Admins until I can
convince one to run KCW.. 

[Dizzy]

DIE HIJACKERS!

[Corbomite]

Oh cool! More neg Karma for simply stating the truth. Thirty two more days and you'll have a minus in front of my name. Go ahead and keep sniping people in the back from a mile away.



(Edited to keep things cool and kosher... Bonk)