Topic: Die Hard, whats the issue with PlaD not working on Ftrs?

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Actually, FS stumbled upon it 1st. He had a shuttle entry in each race that matched the ftrlist shuttle name.

And I already tested it. PlaD isnt dumping all 4 shots at the same time. It waits till one PlaD is exhausted and then fires another, just as a ship based PlaD does. They also run out of ammo having only 2 reloads.

Interesting.....  Wow, there is just no end to the nasty little tricks you can do with ship donation.     

Good find!     to you and FS.

<wanders off to play nasty games with his Squadron Commander shiplist>


-S'Cipio

[Dizzy]

Oh, and it doesnt matter what stats u give the shiplist donated ftr, seems only the ones in the ftrlist are used. Just the name needs to be there.

And you'll need to confirm everything I've done...

Hey, I used a FF shiplist ftr donation, what happens if you use FTR shiplist donation? Oh and AMD did fire at the donated ftrs luckily enough.

It's all very weird tho, I still cant seem to duplicate the PlaD simultaneous launch and limitless ammo bug...

And correction, I discovered that donation 1st with my Andromedn mod in SGOdev a long time ago, but didnt realize its importance and function till well after FS had used, and taken out the SH in an old version of his OPPlus shiplist. I forget exactly the characteristics of the problem he had. So I guess its uncharted territory. Experiment and lets see what happens.

[Corbomite]

Who cares if you can put Plas D on fighters if they won't fire them at ships?

[Dizzy]

Because they turn your ship drone proof. Who needs offensive PlaD when defensive mode is so effective?

If PlaD could be used offensively, that'd be damned scary.

[Corbomite]

Because they turn your ship drone proof. Who needs offensive PlaD when defensive mode is so effective?

If PlaD could be used offensively, that'd be damned scary.

Drone proof is not desired. Besides, since when are drones that much of an issue anyway? I haven't seen much change in tactics when faster drones are employed versus slower ones. They stil try to death drag you, it just takes a little less time to kill you if you get caught when the point is not to get caught in the first place.

And you can use them offensively, its called Dro D. All we have to do is figure out a way to fool the server into thinking its Early Era all the time. 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

And you can use them offensively, its called Dro D. All we have to do is figure out a way to fool the server into thinking its Early Era all the time. 

That, we can do.

Just put a few billion turns into a year and/or make the turns take hours.  (Instant ship purchase would be  a must.)

The admin would have to make server-side updates to the shiplist swapping out the "R"'s  and SPECIALs from time to time, in order to simulate the advancement of technology.

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

1 impulse = 1 Second at Speed 8.   The Fighters PlasmaD fire as rappidly as they do on the ships.

[Dizzy]

A PlaD on a ftr will fire all 4 shots at the same time at 4 drones. And or it will fire ONE PlaD shot at a ftr squad or PF and wait till that shot has expired b4 shooting another shot.

So whats the problem?

[762_XC]

4 fighters firing 16 D torps in 4 seconds. No problem!!!

[Dizzy]

They dont. Not when u ship donate to them. Even if there are 4x Ftrs and each has two PlaD's, only ONE will fire per Ftr Squad and or PF at a time. Drones are toast, tho. They all fire at as many drones as need be killed.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Ship based Plas D will not fire all the plasma D at once on drones, so it sounds like you still need to tweak it before its ready.

[Dizzy]

If 4 drones come at a ship based PlaD they all fire. Same as Ftr based.

I think the problem is that we have had Ftr PlaD dump all 4 shots at the same time on a PF. That isnt supposed to happen. And it no longer does. I need some confirmation testing done on it in PvP, but I think that's fixed.

[Hexx]

I still think it's not going to work- donated a fighter to the shiplist.
(I *may* have done something wrong,though- really just cut and pasted the swift into the Klink sl and designated it a FF)

6 fights between 2-3 groups of Swift 1 (with 1 plasmaD each) and 2-3 groups of Z-YBm's (with the zillions of drones)

6 Victories for the Swifts, they still fired enough shots to eliminate evry drone fired and then wipe out the enemy fighters.
-Yes they seemed to wait to fire a plamaD until the previous one had hit, but with the speed that fighter groups move it doesn't take a longtime
for them to hit.


The end result (as I see it) is still going to be giving the plasma boys the better assault fighters (with F torps) and the best Anti Fighter /anti drone /anti PF fighter wrapped up into one.

[Dizzy]

Perhaps we should know just HOW PlaD are supposed to work in SFB.. Then we can come up with how they should be implemented in SFC based on the following findings:



A ftr based PlaD has 2 reloads.

As a single ftr:

A PlaD on a single ftr will fire all 4 shots at drones at once.

A PlaD on a single ftr will fire ONE shot at a PF or Ftr Squad and not another till that PlaD shot hs expired.

More than 1 ftr in a squad:

A PlaD on a Squad of ftrs will fire ALL 4 shots at drones at once oer each PlaD. So if a ftr has 2x PlaD and there are 2x ftrs, that squad will be able to knock down 16 drones at once.

No matter how many PlaD are present on each ftr and no matter how many ftrs in a squad, only ONE shot will be fired from that squad at a PF or ftr squad and not another till that PlaD shot has expired..

[Hexx]

Perhaps we should know just HOW PlaD are supposed to work in SFB.. Then we can come up with how they should be implemented in SFC based on the following findings:



A ftr based PlaD has 2 reloads.

there are 2x ftrs, that squad will be able to knock down 16 drones at once.

No matter how many PlaD are present on each ftr and no matter how many ftrs in a squad, only ONE shot will be fired from that squad at a PF or ftr squad and not another till that PlaD shot has expired..

It sounds good, the problem is when you have a fighter group with plasmad attacking an enemy fighter
group or PF 2-3 hexes away the part about only" ONE shot will be fired from that squad at a PF or ftr squad and not another till that PlaD shot has expired.." is kinda the same thing as saying there is no difference between an Assault Rifle and a Single shot hunting rifle as they both "only fire one shot at a time"

As I said- I may have messed up the donating, but (from my quick 6 tests) the plasma fighters wiped out the ZyBm's drone wave, then did the "one shot fired" thing - and still managed (all 6 times)to  wipe out the ZYb's before they could get a second drone wave off.

-Points-
- I may have messed up the donating (still they appeared to fire at the fighters as you said they should)
-There was no human control for the ZyB's- of course I didn't do anything with the plasms fighters either.


*To me* it still appears that placing a Plasmad on a fighter will render the carrier alomst immune to drone strikes as well as rip up and PF and or fighter unit they encounter.
A Plasma carrier using 2-4 a mix of Plasma D and Plasma F fighters would be able to (fairly easily) eliminate another carriers fighters/PF's and still retain the plasma F fighters for srikes on ships.
Given the AI's decision to (usually) attack fighters with fighters Any drone fighters will attempt to
eliminate the plasD fighters, and I really don't think they can do it.

[762_XC]

The fact that they can each fire 4 D torps AT ALL means they are still broken.

D-torps are such a powerful anti-fighter weapon that even if you limit them to the number of shots they have in SFB, they are still way more powerful than they should be, because we don't have chaff.

Hexx's test is only the latest of its kind to bear this out.

[Dizzy]

Just as long as you understand that a ftr squad carrying even 8 PlaD total, only one from the entire squad fires at a time. But yeah, drones are toast. Isnt it that way with ship PlaD?

Hey, ck out this film (OPPlus 4.0) I had last night with me and Risky flying Rom and ISC vs Dif Josh and Angel flying Mirak ships with fighters and mirvs. http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Film_Room/General/Monitors.rec

I launched my Starhawk D's and what happens next is pretty exciting... It's a short film, our monitors (we all bought monitors with fighter pallets) just walked right up to each other and slugged it out. But the PlaD action is just thrilling watching all those fighters, drones and mirvs fly all over. Wow, it was a mess.

From a PF stand point, My Starhawk D's have 2x PlaD per side. That makes them more deadly to other PF's and Ftr squads than having a ftr squad with 4 PlaD.

[Dizzy]

Tool, what? A squad, no matter how many PlaD's fire only one shot at another PF or ftr. If chaff reduces the PlaD, and sfc doesnt have it, then a balanced judgement will have to be used for conversion. Perhaps 1/2 the PlaD should be used on ftrs?

[762_XC]

Find a way to limit it, then we'll talk.

P.S. PlaD is a D-rack, not a D-torp.

[Dizzy]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.