Topic: Die Hard, whats the issue with PlaD not working on Ftrs?

[Dizzy]

DH, what precisely was the issue with PlaD not working on Ftrs? I forget exactly what the problem was.

Did they fire all their reloads at once instead of one every impulse or something like that?

[GDA-S'Cipio]

DH, what precisely was the issue with PlaD not working on Ftrs? I forget exactly what the problem was.

Did they fire all their reloads at once instead of one every impulse or something like that?

They don't fire.  Neither do ADD's.

Dro-D (the offensive version of Plas-d) will "work", but has problems.  In one era they work normally, in another era they skip shields, and in another era they are automatically enveloping.  I forget which is which.


-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

Did they fire all their reloads at once instead of one every impulse or something like that?

Yup.  They fire 1 Torp Per im[pulse and seem to be able to reload themseves

[FPF-DieHard]

DH, what precisely was the issue with PlaD not working on Ftrs? I forget exactly what the problem was.

Did they fire all their reloads at once instead of one every impulse or something like that?

They don't fire.  Neither do ADD's.

Dro-D (the offensive version of Plas-d) will "work", but has problems.  In one era they work normally, in another era they skip shields, and in another era they are automatically enveloping.  I forget which is which.


-S'Cipio

Nope,   They do firee, so does ADD

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Nope,   They do firee, so does ADD

Hmmm....... things have changed!  (Edit:  Just remember, DOE -- the last time I tried to put Plas-D on a fighter -- was an EAW server.  Doh!)

I just know I can exploit this in some way......

-S'Cipio

[Dizzy]

Ok, wait a second, DH... Let me understand this. If you put PlaD on a ftr... are u saying it fires all 4 shots at an enemy ftr squad at the same time when it should only fire one? And what reload problem?

[Hexx]

Each fighter shoots one PlasmaD each impulse.

They also don't seem to run out of ammo.

[FPF-DieHard]

Each fighter shoots one PlasmaD each impulse.

They also don't seem to run out of ammo.

it was damn Hysterical the first time we saw this!    I still remember t00l's shreiking 

[Hexx]

Each fighter shoots one PlasmaD each impulse.

They also don't seem to run out of ammo.

it was damn Hysterical the first time we saw this!    I still remember t00l's shreiking 

t00l does seem to shriek alot..

[el-Karnak]

Each fighter shoots one PlasmaD each impulse.

They also don't seem to run out of ammo.

By order of the ISC High Command;

ISC fighters will now always use Plasma Ds.

Gee, that was a hard one to figure out.

If it works, why fix it? 

[Hexx]

Each fighter shoots one PlasmaD each impulse.

They also don't seem to run out of ammo.

By order of the ISC High Command;

ISC fighters will now always use Plasma Ds.

Gee, that was a hard one to figure out.

It's funny you should say that.. Sten (I think it was Sten) and I tested it out way back on whatver the server
was where C7's were being torn up by rng 12+ PhG Cav fire.
I remember loading them up, then watching them fire off enough PlasmaD to wipe out every drone the opposing fighters launched at them
before wiping out the opposing fighter group itself.

Although quite honestly as long as I'm using a BCHP I'm completely in favour of PlasmaD fighters..

[Dizzy]

I dont think a Plad is supposed to fire all 4 of its shots at a PF at once. I think it needs to fire 1 at a time. Once 1 PlaD hits, another is fired. Not all 4 at once. Right?

[el-Karnak]

Each fighter shoots one PlasmaD each impulse.

They also don't seem to run out of ammo.

By order of the ISC High Command;

ISC fighters will now always use Plasma Ds.

Gee, that was a hard one to figure out.

It's funny you should say that.. Sten (I think it was Sten) and I tested it out way back on whatver the server
was where C7's were being torn up by rng 12+ PhG Cav fire.
I remember loading them up, then watching them fire off enough PlasmaD to wipe out every drone the opposing fighters launched at them
before wiping out the opposing fighter group itself.

Although quite honestly as long as I'm using a BCHP I'm completely in favour of PlasmaD fighters..

Yeah, it's not a bug, it's a feature.  We Frogs call it "Fighter Plasma D version 1.0".

[Dizzy]

Does this only happen on the D2 and not in Single player? I cant seem to reproduce in SP mode the PlaD dumping all its 4 rounds at once into a PF.

[Hexx]

It's not exactly like a machine gun against PF's but just ran a D6V with 2 wings of Swift 1's armed
only with a single plasma D mount against a Lyran PFW with 4 PF's
One Fighter group took 3 casualties from straying too close to the PFW than the 5 remaing fighter wiped
out 3 Lyran Pfs in a turn, spent a moment or two "reloading" and killed the last PF

Realizing Lyran PF's aren't that great, but 5 (say even Swift1's wiped out 4 in less than two turns.

[FPF-DieHard]

I dont think a Plad is supposed to fire all 4 of its shots at a PF at once. I think it needs to fire 1 at a time. Once 1 PlaD hits, another is fired. Not all 4 at once. Right?

Correct.   One D-torp per round.   

Simple Solution:  Plasma F fighters with no CnC. 

[Hexx]

I dont think a Plad is supposed to fire all 4 of its shots at a PF at once. I think it needs to fire 1 at a time. Once 1 PlaD hits, another is fired. Not all 4 at once. Right?

Correct.   One D-torp per round.   

Simple Solution:  Plasma F fighters with no CnC. 

Simple ~
Having or manifesting little sense or intelligence.
Uneducated; ignorant.
Unworldly or unsophisticated

[Dizzy]

I dont think a Plad is supposed to fire all 4 of its shots at a PF at once. I think it needs to fire 1 at a time. Once 1 PlaD hits, another is fired. Not all 4 at once. Right?

Correct.   One D-torp per round.   

Simple Solution:  Plasma F fighters with no CnC. 

Ok, well, I'm not able to reproduce how a ftr armed with a PlaD that fires all 4 at once at an enemy ftr squadron or PF. It fires only one at a time.

However, and I need to do some more testing, but it seems that you can give ftrs ship based characteristics for PlaD by giving them a donor in the shiplist. For instance, if I put in the shiplist F-Hawk.I as a Fed FF, then the PlaD behaves as if it is a ship based PlaD. Thus it fires one at a time at a ftr or PF squadron. (however, it is already doing this w/o having a donor)

By default, and it appears it is not alterable, the PlaD gets 2 reloads. So one PlaD will fire 3 times. What needs to be checked is if a Ftr has multiple PlaD if each will fire at a PF. It may be that no matter how many PlaD are on a given ftr, the squad only fires ONE at a PF at a time. The racks, however, work normally with drones. So if 24 drones are fired, and you have 2 PlaD @ on 2 ftrs, then 16 of the drones go poof.

I think there is something that may work here. I have never liked PhoF being used on Plasma Ftrs, and maybe now we can play around with this to see if it can work right.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I dont think a Plad is supposed to fire all 4 of its shots at a PF at once. I think it needs to fire 1 at a time. Once 1 PlaD hits, another is fired. Not all 4 at once. Right?

Correct.   One D-torp per round.   

Simple Solution:  Plasma F fighters with no CnC. 

Ok, well, I'm not able to reproduce how a ftr armed with a PlaD that fires all 4 at once at an enemy ftr squadron or PF. It fires only one at a time.

I don't think that is what they are saying.  They seem to be saying it fires once per impulse, not all at once.

And then it never runs out of ammunition.

However, and I need to do some more testing, but it seems that you can give ftrs ship based characteristics for PlaD by giving them a donor in the shiplist. For instance, if I put in the shiplist F-Hawk.I as a Fed FF, then the PlaD behaves as if it is a ship based PlaD. Thus it fires one at a time at a ftr or PF squadron. (however, it is already doing this w/o having a donor)

Give it a try and let us know what you find.  But I don't hink you can donate a ftr via the shiplist, can you?

The ship/FTR thing I was talking abou earlier was for PFs, since they are in the same shiplist as the ships.

-S'Cipio

[Dizzy]

Actually, FS stumbled upon it 1st. He had a shuttle entry in each race that matched the ftrlist shuttle name.

And I already tested it. PlaD isnt dumping all 4 shots at the same time. It waits till one PlaD is exhausted and then fires another, just as a ship based PlaD does. They also run out of ammo having only 2 reloads.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Actually, FS stumbled upon it 1st. He had a shuttle entry in each race that matched the ftrlist shuttle name.

And I already tested it. PlaD isnt dumping all 4 shots at the same time. It waits till one PlaD is exhausted and then fires another, just as a ship based PlaD does. They also run out of ammo having only 2 reloads.

Interesting.....  Wow, there is just no end to the nasty little tricks you can do with ship donation.     

Good find!     to you and FS.

<wanders off to play nasty games with his Squadron Commander shiplist>


-S'Cipio

[Dizzy]

Oh, and it doesnt matter what stats u give the shiplist donated ftr, seems only the ones in the ftrlist are used. Just the name needs to be there.

And you'll need to confirm everything I've done...

Hey, I used a FF shiplist ftr donation, what happens if you use FTR shiplist donation? Oh and AMD did fire at the donated ftrs luckily enough.

It's all very weird tho, I still cant seem to duplicate the PlaD simultaneous launch and limitless ammo bug...

And correction, I discovered that donation 1st with my Andromedn mod in SGOdev a long time ago, but didnt realize its importance and function till well after FS had used, and taken out the SH in an old version of his OPPlus shiplist. I forget exactly the characteristics of the problem he had. So I guess its uncharted territory. Experiment and lets see what happens.

[Corbomite]

Who cares if you can put Plas D on fighters if they won't fire them at ships?

[Dizzy]

Because they turn your ship drone proof. Who needs offensive PlaD when defensive mode is so effective?

If PlaD could be used offensively, that'd be damned scary.

[Corbomite]

Because they turn your ship drone proof. Who needs offensive PlaD when defensive mode is so effective?

If PlaD could be used offensively, that'd be damned scary.

Drone proof is not desired. Besides, since when are drones that much of an issue anyway? I haven't seen much change in tactics when faster drones are employed versus slower ones. They stil try to death drag you, it just takes a little less time to kill you if you get caught when the point is not to get caught in the first place.

And you can use them offensively, its called Dro D. All we have to do is figure out a way to fool the server into thinking its Early Era all the time. 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

And you can use them offensively, its called Dro D. All we have to do is figure out a way to fool the server into thinking its Early Era all the time. 

That, we can do.

Just put a few billion turns into a year and/or make the turns take hours.  (Instant ship purchase would be  a must.)

The admin would have to make server-side updates to the shiplist swapping out the "R"'s  and SPECIALs from time to time, in order to simulate the advancement of technology.

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

1 impulse = 1 Second at Speed 8.   The Fighters PlasmaD fire as rappidly as they do on the ships.

[Dizzy]

A PlaD on a ftr will fire all 4 shots at the same time at 4 drones. And or it will fire ONE PlaD shot at a ftr squad or PF and wait till that shot has expired b4 shooting another shot.

So whats the problem?

[762_XC]

4 fighters firing 16 D torps in 4 seconds. No problem!!!

[Dizzy]

They dont. Not when u ship donate to them. Even if there are 4x Ftrs and each has two PlaD's, only ONE will fire per Ftr Squad and or PF at a time. Drones are toast, tho. They all fire at as many drones as need be killed.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Ship based Plas D will not fire all the plasma D at once on drones, so it sounds like you still need to tweak it before its ready.

[Dizzy]

If 4 drones come at a ship based PlaD they all fire. Same as Ftr based.

I think the problem is that we have had Ftr PlaD dump all 4 shots at the same time on a PF. That isnt supposed to happen. And it no longer does. I need some confirmation testing done on it in PvP, but I think that's fixed.

[Hexx]

I still think it's not going to work- donated a fighter to the shiplist.
(I *may* have done something wrong,though- really just cut and pasted the swift into the Klink sl and designated it a FF)

6 fights between 2-3 groups of Swift 1 (with 1 plasmaD each) and 2-3 groups of Z-YBm's (with the zillions of drones)

6 Victories for the Swifts, they still fired enough shots to eliminate evry drone fired and then wipe out the enemy fighters.
-Yes they seemed to wait to fire a plamaD until the previous one had hit, but with the speed that fighter groups move it doesn't take a longtime
for them to hit.


The end result (as I see it) is still going to be giving the plasma boys the better assault fighters (with F torps) and the best Anti Fighter /anti drone /anti PF fighter wrapped up into one.

[Dizzy]

Perhaps we should know just HOW PlaD are supposed to work in SFB.. Then we can come up with how they should be implemented in SFC based on the following findings:



A ftr based PlaD has 2 reloads.

As a single ftr:

A PlaD on a single ftr will fire all 4 shots at drones at once.

A PlaD on a single ftr will fire ONE shot at a PF or Ftr Squad and not another till that PlaD shot hs expired.

More than 1 ftr in a squad:

A PlaD on a Squad of ftrs will fire ALL 4 shots at drones at once oer each PlaD. So if a ftr has 2x PlaD and there are 2x ftrs, that squad will be able to knock down 16 drones at once.

No matter how many PlaD are present on each ftr and no matter how many ftrs in a squad, only ONE shot will be fired from that squad at a PF or ftr squad and not another till that PlaD shot has expired..

[Hexx]

Perhaps we should know just HOW PlaD are supposed to work in SFB.. Then we can come up with how they should be implemented in SFC based on the following findings:



A ftr based PlaD has 2 reloads.

there are 2x ftrs, that squad will be able to knock down 16 drones at once.

No matter how many PlaD are present on each ftr and no matter how many ftrs in a squad, only ONE shot will be fired from that squad at a PF or ftr squad and not another till that PlaD shot has expired..

It sounds good, the problem is when you have a fighter group with plasmad attacking an enemy fighter
group or PF 2-3 hexes away the part about only" ONE shot will be fired from that squad at a PF or ftr squad and not another till that PlaD shot has expired.." is kinda the same thing as saying there is no difference between an Assault Rifle and a Single shot hunting rifle as they both "only fire one shot at a time"

As I said- I may have messed up the donating, but (from my quick 6 tests) the plasma fighters wiped out the ZyBm's drone wave, then did the "one shot fired" thing - and still managed (all 6 times)to  wipe out the ZYb's before they could get a second drone wave off.

-Points-
- I may have messed up the donating (still they appeared to fire at the fighters as you said they should)
-There was no human control for the ZyB's- of course I didn't do anything with the plasms fighters either.


*To me* it still appears that placing a Plasmad on a fighter will render the carrier alomst immune to drone strikes as well as rip up and PF and or fighter unit they encounter.
A Plasma carrier using 2-4 a mix of Plasma D and Plasma F fighters would be able to (fairly easily) eliminate another carriers fighters/PF's and still retain the plasma F fighters for srikes on ships.
Given the AI's decision to (usually) attack fighters with fighters Any drone fighters will attempt to
eliminate the plasD fighters, and I really don't think they can do it.

[762_XC]

The fact that they can each fire 4 D torps AT ALL means they are still broken.

D-torps are such a powerful anti-fighter weapon that even if you limit them to the number of shots they have in SFB, they are still way more powerful than they should be, because we don't have chaff.

Hexx's test is only the latest of its kind to bear this out.

[Dizzy]

Just as long as you understand that a ftr squad carrying even 8 PlaD total, only one from the entire squad fires at a time. But yeah, drones are toast. Isnt it that way with ship PlaD?

Hey, ck out this film (OPPlus 4.0) I had last night with me and Risky flying Rom and ISC vs Dif Josh and Angel flying Mirak ships with fighters and mirvs. http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Film_Room/General/Monitors.rec

I launched my Starhawk D's and what happens next is pretty exciting... It's a short film, our monitors (we all bought monitors with fighter pallets) just walked right up to each other and slugged it out. But the PlaD action is just thrilling watching all those fighters, drones and mirvs fly all over. Wow, it was a mess.

From a PF stand point, My Starhawk D's have 2x PlaD per side. That makes them more deadly to other PF's and Ftr squads than having a ftr squad with 4 PlaD.

[Dizzy]

Tool, what? A squad, no matter how many PlaD's fire only one shot at another PF or ftr. If chaff reduces the PlaD, and sfc doesnt have it, then a balanced judgement will have to be used for conversion. Perhaps 1/2 the PlaD should be used on ftrs?

[762_XC]

Find a way to limit it, then we'll talk.

P.S. PlaD is a D-rack, not a D-torp.

[Dizzy]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

Not really as SFB is irrelevant other than as a nice justification cop out, what you NEED to know is how it works on SFC balance issues, and are they really needed, and if so in what form, and what will be needed by drone and fighter races in response if anything for a good balance.  I know the last thing I want to see flying mirak is a plasma boat that can go 31 chucking plasma over it's shoulder and basically untouchable with my power curb suddenly pop out plasma D fighters so he can't even be cornered now.  Its kinda like plasma D on Rom ships in the slow drone era 

Not saying it can't work Dizzy, just warning you to be very careful with the balance aspects

[Dizzy]

I thought about this as well. It all depends on the arc and how many each ftr gets. I'm not concerned much about Ftr squads or PF's being fired at by Ftr PlaD, I'm concerned about how lethal they are against drones. If you have seen what a StarHawk D Rom PF can do to a squad of mirak ftrs, it's rather scary. It;s more or less the same issue with ftrs.

If the ftrs all have 1 PlaD FH, I dont think there is much a problem... but still, 1x PlaD per ftr with 4x ftrs in a squad, that squad would waste 16 drones and reload twice, but is much less a threat to ftr and pf's, cuz they wont fire all at once.

I think it may be worth it to add 1x PlaD FH to a ftr squad and test them for balance. Mb give them a Ph3 FH as well. Remember, these are toally defensive ftrs and have no offensive ability. I like it better than giving the Plasma races the PhoF.

[FPF-DieHard]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Simply givein the Plasma fighter races non CnC on Plasma F fighters pretty much solves this issue.Plasma F fighter waist other fighters and ships if the Ship is stupid enough to get close. 

There is no need to re-invent the wheel

[el-Karnak]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Simply givein the Plasma fighter races non CnC on Plasma F fighters pretty much solves this issue.Plasma F fighter waist other fighters and ships if the Ship is stupid enough to get close. 

There is no need to re-invent the wheel

In compensation for the ISC being greviously afflicted with the Plasma D on fighter "feature", then can we just put Plasma Rs on the fighters? 

[Hexx]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Simply givein the Plasma fighter races non CnC on Plasma F fighters pretty much solves this issue.Plasma F fighter waist other fighters and ships if the Ship is stupid enough to get close. 

There is no need to re-invent the wheel

In compensation for the ISC being greviously afflicted with the Plasma D on fighter "feature", then can we just put Plasma Rs on the fighters? 

I've always thought that PF's should come equipped with weapons that can crack a ship open....

[el-Karnak]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Simply givein the Plasma fighter races non CnC on Plasma F fighters pretty much solves this issue.Plasma F fighter waist other fighters and ships if the Ship is stupid enough to get close. 

There is no need to re-invent the wheel

In compensation for the ISC being greviously afflicted with the Plasma D on fighter "feature", then can we just put Plasma Rs on the fighters? 

I've always thought that PF's should come equipped with weapons that can crack a ship open....

No. You're Hexx and you are supposed to fly Lyran with funny green dizzy squirt guns and buzzing ESG onions thingies.  Your greatness would be sullied if you were given nastier weapons and you would be a grave unbalaincing PvP threat on the dyna if allowed to run amok.

[Hexx]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Simply givein the Plasma fighter races non CnC on Plasma F fighters pretty much solves this issue.Plasma F fighter waist other fighters and ships if the Ship is stupid enough to get close. 

There is no need to re-invent the wheel

In compensation for the ISC being greviously afflicted with the Plasma D on fighter "feature", then can we just put Plasma Rs on the fighters? 

I've always thought that PF's should come equipped with weapons that can crack a ship open....

No. You're Hexx and you are supposed to fly Lyran with funny green dizzy squirt guns and buzzing ESG onions thingies.  Your greatness would be sullied if you were given nastier weapons and you would be a grave unbalaincing PvP threat on the dyna if allowed to run amok.

This is true..

I have always said you were one of the intelligesta around here...

[Dizzy]

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Ok, well that isnt how it works on a ship. PlaD will fire all four shots at a drone wave from a ship. It does the same on a ftr. On a ship, PlaD fires ONE shot at a PF till that shot has expired. It does the same on a ftr. What is broken?

[el-Karnak]

Its whatever it is in SFC. Thats what we have to work with. I need to know how it works in SFB and what ftrs carried how many of them.

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Simply givein the Plasma fighter races non CnC on Plasma F fighters pretty much solves this issue.Plasma F fighter waist other fighters and ships if the Ship is stupid enough to get close. 

There is no need to re-invent the wheel

In compensation for the ISC being greviously afflicted with the Plasma D on fighter "feature", then can we just put Plasma Rs on the fighters? 

I've always thought that PF's should come equipped with weapons that can crack a ship open....

No. You're Hexx and you are supposed to fly Lyran with funny green dizzy squirt guns and buzzing ESG onions thingies.  Your greatness would be sullied if you were given nastier weapons and you would be a grave unbalaincing PvP threat on the dyna if allowed to run amok.

This is true..

I have always said you were one of the intelligesta around here...

Yeah, so where's the positive Karma you promised me?

[762_XC]

Dizzy, it is broken, let it go.  Stop waisting enrgy and time on something this silly.

We already TOLD you how it works in SFB.   1 D-torp per round.  Pay attention in class next time.

Ok, well that isnt how it works on a ship. PlaD will fire all four shots at a drone wave from a ship. It does the same on a ftr. On a ship, PlaD fires ONE shot at a PF till that shot has expired. It does the same on a ftr. What is broken?

What is broken is you are trying to put a 16-torp rack on a fighter, and there is no way without the source code to get it to obey any shot limitations.

[Hexx]

Actually... kinda interesting point

Swift1 (spd 18) vs ZYbM (best Klink Anti-Fighter- ZyC is anti ship)

2 squads of 4 vs 2 squads of 4

Swift1's are now 10-0

HOWEVER

4 Squads Vs 4 Squads (using D6U's)

Swift1's are 4-4 and 1 ( I wasn't paying attention and the ZyB's unloaded on my ship-ouch)

So it IS possible for fighters to overwhelm the PlasD - IMO though the plasma D is still way OTT- yes the ZYB's scored some wins
in a 4 on 4, however the ZyB's are spd 30ish fighters with Ph3's etc- as I said- the best fighter killers the Klinks have-
the Swift 1's are spd 18 with only one PlasmaD each.

I'll redo the tests (also going to strip armament and deck crews fro the D6U's) with spd 30ish Swift1's- but it will only benefit
the PlasmaD fighters - and I'd actually hate to think of what they might do against Hydran fighters close up.

[Dizzy]

and I'd actually hate to think of what they might do against Hydran fighters close up.

They'd fire ONE shot from a squad into a hydran squad or PF till that shot has expired and then fire another till they run out of ammo and take a turn to reload.

[Dizzy]

What is broken is you are trying to put a 16-torp rack on a fighter, and there is no way without the source code to get it to obey any shot limitations.

The Starhawk D Romulan PF is twice the killer a squad of ftrs with each a PlaD. Whats the problem here?

[Hexx]

and I'd actually hate to think of what they might do against Hydran fighters close up.

They'd fire ONE shot from a squad into a hydran squad or PF till that shot has expired and then fire another till they run out of ammo and take a turn to reload.

What actually happnes is the PlasmaD carrying fighters wipe out whatever kind of fighters they face firing the "one shot at a time" - while the other fighters need a full turn to reload their own heavy weapons.

Really I'm behind you Diz, I'd love to see fighters become more useful and better on teh D2- but I don't think it's going to work

[762_XC]

Dizzy, step away from the computer now. The men in white coats will be there soon.

[FPF-DieHard]

Dizzy, please tell me you are messing with us.  I don't see how we could explain this any simpler unless we wrote it in Klingon.

[Dizzy]

DH, your sig doesnt work...

1 PlaD and a Ph3 on a ftr in a group of 4... I'd say its worth testing. They arnt as bad as the Starhawk D's. At least Hexx shows some interest. I value his opinion greatly...