Topic: Using BPV in a campaign is retarded

[FPF-DieHard]

Or the Mirak could learn some tactics.   

Z-NCC.   6 Phaser 1 that fiire backwards, 41 power, 4 drones racks and  C turn mode.   You're telling me you can't fight an NHK/G-MCC  in that?  he can't run you down and if he castles ignore him until he gets bored. I KNOW you can win that fight, I've seen what you can do this ship.

Yes, the Z-BCH is a turd, but that's why the X-Ships are supposed to come out in 2282.  You're CCXs are competitive in late and this is what the game was desgined around.   These are the ships you should be comparing, not some supped up Strike Carrier that was never updated because they didn't need to.

The Kzin have plenty of competive ships, they just fly them wrong or choose not fly them at all.

PS.   I agree your Fast cruisers suck but your carriers are great and you get the MIRVs on non-X in OP+

[Hexx]

Huzzah!
I was going to say the same thing

The problem isn't the ship, it's that all the Kzin pilots are stupid.
Get smarter pilots.
I think Pig was looking for another race to fly..

[FPF-DieHard]

Huzzah!
I was going to say the same thing

The problem isn't the ship, it's that all the Kzin pilots are stupid.
Get smarter pilots.
I think Pig was looking for another race to fly..

I can always count on Hexx to make me look diplomatic   

hey KHH, if I do a "4 Powers War 2268-Late" will you guys Fly Mirak?

[Hexx]

Huzzah!
I was going to say the same thing

The problem isn't the ship, it's that all the Kzin pilots are stupid.
Get smarter pilots.
I think Pig was looking for another race to fly..

I can always count on Hexx to make me look diplomatic   

hey KHH, if I do a "4 Powers War 2268-Late" will you guys Fly Mirak?

I think they have one of those "loyalty" complexes I've heard about.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Or the Mirak could learn some tactics.   

Z-NCC.   6 Phaser 1 that fiire backwards, 41 power, 4 drones racks and  C turn mode.   You're telling me you can't fight an NHK/G-MCC  in that?  he can't run you down and if he castles ignore him until he gets bored. I KNOW you can win that fight, I've seen what you can do this ship.

Yes, the Z-BCH is a turd, but that's why the X-Ships are supposed to come out in 2282.  You're CCXs are competitive in late and this is what the game was desgined around.   These are the ships you should be comparing, not some supped up Strike Carrier that was never updated because they didn't need to.

The Kzin have plenty of competive ships, they just fly them wrong or choose not fly them at all.

PS.   I agree your Fast cruisers suck but your carriers are great and you get the MIRVs on non-X in OP+

Mirak fast cruisers suck

The Z-BCH sucks vs plasma

Mirak DNs suck vs plasma

Not everyone is a fighter jock

X-Ships suck by definition

NCC is a good ship (great vs Klingons) although limited with retarded FA arcs (despite the much much older Z-CC having great arcs and this being an "upgrade")managing 4 phaser ones to a broadside, inferior to the NHK.  True the NHK can't chase it down, but shouldn't ned to.  He can make the mirak eat plasma on a regular basis if the NCC tries to chase him at anything but long range.  Its still a winable if very uphill fight.  Now it gets even worse vs Fast Cruisers and other ships that can arc the S torps over the shoulder.  Try vs a G-BF.  And what do you fly vs the BCHs and DNs?

I don't mind having certain racial weaknesses, but thought I'd point this out as something that would need attention if we try to bring the other races up a bit in the area of the mirak strength of hex flipping.


I'm sure you will enlighten me as to better tactics when you are recording Plasma boat kills left and right when you are flying Kzin on the next server DH (shameless recruiting )  I get more kills when flying Federation or Lyran than as Kzin, so maybe I'm flying the wrong race, perhaps your high sucess rate with mirak ships in that future server will make a Kzin out of you 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

You're CCXs are competitive in late and this is what the game was desgined around. 

If the game is designed around CCXs the community has been spending 95 % of its time on the wrong eras and I'm playing the wrong game 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Huzzah!
The problem isn't the ship, it's that all the Kzin pilots are stupid.
Get smarter pilots.

This coming from Hexx?

It is kinda like Rosie O'Donell telling you your fat and need to lose weight?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Gw1. I had more kills flying mirak vs. klinks than any other server. The MDC and NCC were great! (in the mid to high teens) The gap in years until the mirak bch came out vs the c-7 hurt. Moggy's BCH mad the c-7 / bch battle decent and with a bit more power and one less dizzy, might make it more competitive vs plasma.

[FPF-DieHard]

Mirak fast cruisers suck

Ray Charles can see that.  No debate their.  Everyone has something that sucks.

The Z-BCH sucks vs plasma

You comparing it the the KCR and CCZ?   What doesn't suck versus those ships?

Mirak DNs suck vs plasma

Again, what DN isn't inferior the the PRA?

Not everyone is a fighter jock

Then why fly Mirak?   It's your races strong area.  If you like drones, good fast cruisers and bad carriers fly Klingon.  

Mirak without drones and fighters is like beer without Alcohol.

X-Ships suck by definition

Wrong.   They fix gapping holes in balance that OP has by them not being there.   This game is based on SFB, it did not matter in SFB if the Gorn and Kzin BCHs were weak becaause by the time they came out the races were building X ships instaed.

I notice no mention of the greatest HDWs in the game while you are speaking of late era ships

NCC is a good ship (great vs Klingons) although limited with retarded FA arcs (despite the much much older Z-CC having great arcs and this being an "upgrade")managing 4 phaser ones to a broadside, inferior to the NHK.  True the NHK can't chase it down, but shouldn't ned to.  He can make the mirak eat plasma on a regular basis if the NCC tries to chase him at anything but long range.  Its still a winable if very uphill fight. 

WHY WOULD YOU CHASE DOWN AN NHK???    You give an example of a bad tactic not working and them blame it on the ship? Try that in and F-CB/NCC you'l die just as quick.

I've have 3 hour PvP's versus plasma, it takes a long time.  ANY fight when you opponent has more cruch than you requires patience and time.

Now it gets even worse vs Fast Cruisers and other ships that can arc the S torps over the shoulder.  Try vs a G-BF.  And what do you fly vs the BCHs and DNs?

You might sell me on a better Fast cruiser, we'll get back to that

I don't mind having certain racial weaknesses, but thought I'd point this out as something that would need attention if we try to bring the other races up a bit in the area of the mirak strength of hex flipping.

I've never advocated weakening the Kzin hex-flipping abilites, nor do I expect every race to flip as well as the DF.   Argue that with the other guys

We have to have  best of everything, and we have to have a worst.   Kzinti are the best at Hexx flipping and I have no issue with this.   IMHO, evey race can be decent and have been with recent mods.

I Like Racial flavor ad do not advocate watering it down.

I'm sure you will enlighten me as to better tactics when you are recording Plasma boat kills left and right when you are flying Kzin on the next server DH (shameless recruiting )  I get more kills when flying Federation or Lyran than as Kzin, so maybe I'm flying the wrong race, perhaps your high sucess rate with mirak ships in that future server will make a Kzin out of you 

You Know that we'll find a Gorn underneath that fur if we use enough Nair.

PS.   I'm kinda busting your balls, don't take me too seriously.

[FPF-DieHard]

Gw1. I had more kills flying mirak vs. klinks than any other server. The MDC and NCC were great! (in the mid to high teens) The gap in years until the mirak bch came out vs the c-7 hurt. Moggy's BCH mad the c-7 / bch battle decent and with a bit more power and one less dizzy, might make it more competitive vs plasma.

The "Moggy" BCH made killing C7s too easy.  Maybe it could fight Plasma, but it tilts the scales too much against traditional enemies.

[FPF-DieHard]

You're CCXs are competitive in late and this is what the game was desgined around. 

If the game is designed around CCXs the community has been spending 95 % of its time on the wrong eras and I'm playing the wrong game 

IN LATE ERA!!!!   Compare CX to CX, not BCH to BCH.

Don't even try to tell me the Early Era Z-CC and MIDish Z-NCC are competitive.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Gw1. I had more kills flying mirak vs. klinks than any other server. The MDC and NCC were great! (in the mid to high teens) The gap in years until the mirak bch came out vs the c-7 hurt. Moggy's BCH mad the c-7 / bch battle decent and with a bit more power and one less dizzy, might make it more competitive vs plasma.

The "Moggy" BCH made killing C7s too easy.  Maybe it could fight Plasma, but it tilts the scales too much against traditional enemies.

 

I only had a couple of kills in the bch as it came out so late. Love the light cruiser and  new cruiser. I guess I really want to be a kitty. Why is Moggys' bch considered over the top?

[Hexx]

  Kzinti are the best at Hexx flipping and I have no issue with this.   IMHO, evey race can be decent and have been with recent mods.

Cheapshot or typo?
You decide!

Anyway I'll assume DH will be forgoing his Hydran preferrence for his new Four Powers server to show everyone all
these great Kzin ships?


Anyone else think DH should put his money where his mouth is? (I'm sure he has enough experience doing that with his Ho's so..)

[el-Karnak]

The problem with the early PFT for all races approach is that you are then forcing all races to fly like Mirak.  Not something every non-Mirak player wants to do. 

Actually no, if you do that you are giving them an option, nobody is forcing anyone to fly anything.  They might like them to fly on the line,  to use to make money getting them into a larger ship faster, other uses, or not at all.

As a mirak player I would like a similar option in the form of a viable PvP ship in each class vs the high speed runaway plasma chuckers, but don't suggest doing so without offering the sharing of the mirak advantage of great hex-flipping. 

I am assuming that this regime is implemented to replace the disengagement rule. If it's used in conjuction with the disengagement rule then that's cool.

I was meaning in addition to the DR, as long as the mirak are given boats that can compete with all races  in PvP, I have no problem having all races being able to compete with us in hex flipping.  To have one without the other would be retarded.

Agreed.

Party-time!! The ISC and Kzinti have actually agreed on an hex flipping related issue.

The universe has turned upside down!!

 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Again, what DN isn't inferior the the PRA?

F-DNH  , but seriously not just the PRA but just about any plasma DN

Then why fly Mirak?   It's your races strong area.  If you like drones, good fast cruisers and bad carriers fly Klingon.  

Actually I'm a natural Rom or Lyran pilot I think, but the companionship of the other Kzin and the roleplay potential makes Kzin more enjoyable for me than those races.  Plus I think weve always had enough Klingon pilots, with Kzin there is a shortage.

Wrong.   They fix gapping holes in balance that OP has by them not being there.   This game is based on SFB, it did not matter in SFB if the Gorn and Kzin BCHs were weak becaause by the time they came out the races were building X ships instaed.

Green eggs and ham would be easier to sell to me    X-ships just make me incredibly bored and make all the non x-ships obsolete excepting the smaller x-boats.

I notice no mention of the greatest HDWs in the game while you are speaking of late era ships

I was bitching why would I mention those 

NCC is a good ship (great vs Klingons) although limited with retarded FA arcs (despite the much much older Z-CC having great arcs and this being an "upgrade")managing 4 phaser ones to a broadside, inferior to the NHK.  True the NHK can't chase it down, but shouldn't ned to.  He can make the mirak eat plasma on a regular basis if the NCC tries to chase him at anything but long range.  Its still a winable if very uphill fight. 

WHY WOULD YOU CHASE DOWN AN NHK???    You give an example of a bad tactic not working and them blame it on the ship? Try that in and F-CB/NCC you'l die just as quick.

 

I wouldn't,  thats why I was pointing out the broadside because he won't chase you and you wont chase him

I've have 3 hour PvP's versus plasma, it takes a long time.  ANY fight when you opponent has more cruch than you requires patience and time.

Even a win in a 3 hour fight is actually a strategic loss in most cases.  I've had so many of these fights most of them ending when one pilot has to go to bed or log off for another reason, hardly worth the effort.

We have to have  best of everything, and we have to have a worst.   Kzinti are the best at Hexx flipping and I have no issue with this.   IMHO, evey race can be decent and have been with recent mods.

resent mods haven't been too bad, except they seem to have a lot more Federation opions than for other races.  I think this is a product of the Federation centric nature of SFB upon which they are based.  By this I refer to the fact that in SFB the Federation is bordered by most of the other races so it has ships designed to fight almost everyone with a good variety of ship types, and even get to borrow some allied tech based on this setup.  Additionally, the Federation is the largest economic power is SFB & Fed & Empire so they seem to get more production of new models rather than having economic limitations that limit the frequency of new offerings.  Take the fighter list as an example.  Looking at this you would think that the federation is the biggest fighter race 

You Know that we'll find a Gorn underneath that fur if we use enough Nair.

You know I started as a Gorn, just couldn't stand those long plasma duels on a regular basis as I'm more interested in overall strategy than in individual PvP matches.  Still fun to fly plasma on occassion, but not as the norm and certainly not on a 4 week + server.

[FPF-DieHard]

TOO MANY QUOTES!!!

Just have to say I'm very sorry that you actually have to take the time to fight a live player.   I'm sorry that you cannot press the Z key and simply see them blow up.   I'm sorry that you actually have to engage the enemy in a war game   

[Dizzy]

Take the fighter list as an example.  Looking at this you would think that the federation is the biggest fighter race 

Yup, and they dont need their PF's. PF's with Photons are OTT. Make them PhoF and i'll be happy. Or give them Dizzies like the other races that cant shoot past 10.

Oh, and DH did an incredible job with his X ships. Fantastic. I think they add a lot. BUT they come out too soon, and I side with chuut on this, they make a lot of ships in 82 and 83 worthless to fly, and that sucks, cuz I really rather enjoy those ships in those years. Its like the BCH and war destroyer days never happen like the old day. I can deal if they come out in 84 and 85. That would rock.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

TOO MANY QUOTES!!!

Just have to say I'm very sorry that you actually have to take the time to fight a live player.   I'm sorry that you cannot press the Z key and simply see them blow up.   I'm sorry that you actually have to engage the enemy in a war game   

Don't get me wrong, one hours fights are cool, but after 2 hours it becomes boring for me, especially if it ends in a "gotta head to bed so I'm leaving the map".  In this aspect I respect Pardek greatly as if it becomes apparent it will be a long one he tells me if he doesn't have alot of time and we always call those a draw.  Occassionally a longer fight is entertaining, but if you got two boats with plasma doing the "ballet" it gets monotonous.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Yup, and they dont need their PF's. PF's with Photons are OTT. Make them PhoF and i'll be happy. Or give them Dizzies like the other races that cant shoot past 10.

Nah, just make them use the non violent combat option like the Feds are supposed to 

[FPF-DieHard]

Yup, and they dont need their PF's. PF's with Photons are OTT. Make them PhoF and i'll be happy. Or give them Dizzies like the other races that cant shoot past 10.

The Range 30 Proxies are just wrong on a PF, the PF with only 1 Photon keeps this resonable.   

The PFB (the one with 2 Photons and 1 Drone) should NOT be considered a Vanilla PF or should be removed.  The Normal PF with 1 Photon and 2 Drones fits that role better. 

Disrupters on PFs fire at 15 on PFs.