Topic: Using BPV in a campaign is retarded

[el-Karnak]

Well, obviously you wernt around when Karnak wanted to up the bpv for droners in the mid and late era and was nearly run out of the community for it.

It wasn't quite like that. What I wanted to do is take an inventory of a ship's drone loadout. If they past a certain threshold, I think it was approx. 75 drones, then an extra enemy AI would be spawned for the player when they do a PvE EEK mission.  I did many trials with F-NCD, K-D5D, and Z-MDC and definitely the extra AI for the droner was forcing the mission to last about a minute longer which would equalize the mission time with a line ship running the same missions.

Anyway, that idea was not very popular and once the disengagement rule was adopted, it became less necessary.  I then concentrated of using class types to determine if an extra enemy AI should be spawned when a player runs a PvE EEK missions. Basically, if you are flying a BCH, DN or BB then you are getting an extra enemy AI. The idea worked most effectively if encouraging players to starting have an smaller ship player to draft for the heavy iron BCH and up player.  Et voila, you got players doing exactly what they should be doing: having an escort  for the heavy iron ship.  BTW, an Admin. that really wanted to use extra AI for droner player would just have to classify the selected droner ship(s) or PFT ship(s) or whatever is deem uber-chessy as a BCH and they got it. That became a mucho better implementation using shiplist.txt.  Has never been done in any dyna with EEK missions to my knowledge though.

It's basically a 6 game mini campaign where each team picks 18 ships from a BPV pool in a certain era. Dizzy's point (which I kind of agree with) is that drone prices being what they are, we would only see slow drones in late era which is kind of silly.

That's what non-EEK missions do with AI. The drone race AI are using slow drones in Late Era. ???

EEK mission will never do that. You pull a PvE EEK mission in late era then you better wake up out of your stupor cuz the mission will actually be less boring than the norm cuz those enemy AI are packing fast drones. 

[Dizzy]

Try and tell the pilot of a gorn BCH -- that a C7 should get cheap fast drones...

I pwnd countless C7's playing Gorn on past servers... with med speed drones. Fast ones made the task a bit harder... but that's the D2. That's why GSA players get pwnd so hardcore when they 1st come to the D2... and capped too. HAHAHA! You guys need to step up to the plate and bat a little harder and stop whimpering about free loadouts.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I pwnd countless C7's playing Gorn on past servers... with med speed drones. Fast ones made the task a bit harder...

<emphasis mine>

Wouldn't your experience suggest that a C7 with fast drone should thus have a highter BPV than one with medium speed drones?

-S'Cipio

[762_XC]

C7 vs G-BCH is a bad example. The Gorn willl usually get pwnt even with slow drones, because they have a bad BCH compared to the C7.

I think free upgrades is a bad idea. But is the C7 with fast drones worth 320?

[el-Karnak]

Upping the bpv will pull bigger AI and pose more of a challenge and possibly extend the mission times for them.

On D2 dynas, the AI is too stupid with droners so it don't matter if you up the BPV. All you get is a stupid DN to replace the stupid BCH.  The stupid DN AI will go down relatively just as quick against a player packing drones.

Only way to make the mission longer is to spawn an extra enemy AI.  1v1 become 1v2 match or 2v2 become 2v3 match.  That definitely increases the mission times even when flying against dumb enemy AI.  Either that or get the ROM AI to stay cloaked all the time.

3v3 mission becomes 3v4?  Now, that's a firework show.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Only way to make the mission longer is to spawn an extra enemy AI.  1v1 become 1v2 match or 2v2 become 2v3 match.  That definitely increases the mission times even when flying against dumb enemy AI.  Either that or get the ROM AI to stay cloaked all the time.

3v3 mission becomes 3v4?  Now, that's a firework show.

Don't make me break out the "Frog Gun" again Karnak 

Any change that would lead to longer ai mission times is not good for the game, especially with the lower player numbers of today as strategic fluidity of a campaign is impaired. 

I've always felt the key to the mission time discrepancy lie in making a fast flipping PvP ineffective option for races with longer mission times.  My thoughts being a early version of a PF tender with INTs available for the Gorn and Roms at server start.  Of course if you balance the other races against the Mirak mission times, you will have to balance the Mirak PvP ability vs those same races.  Most mirak ships don't have a prayer vs a plasma chucker who can do 31 and recharge chucking plasma over his shoulder at speeds the mirak ships cannot keep up with and rearm at as they were not designed for plasma fighting.

[el-Karnak]

Only way to make the mission longer is to spawn an extra enemy AI.  1v1 become 1v2 match or 2v2 become 2v3 match.  That definitely increases the mission times even when flying against dumb enemy AI.  Either that or get the ROM AI to stay cloaked all the time.

3v3 mission becomes 3v4?  Now, that's a firework show.

Don't make me break out the "Frog Gun" again Karnak 

Any change that would lead to longer ai mission times is not good for the game, especially with the lower player numbers of today as strategic fluidity of a campaign is impaired. 

I've always felt the key to the mission time discrepancy lie in making a fast flipping PvP ineffective option for races with longer mission times.  My thoughts being a early version of a PF tender with INTs available for the Gorn and Roms at server start.  Of course if you balance the other races against the Mirak mission times, you will have to balance the Mirak PvP ability vs those same races.  Most mirak ships don't have a prayer vs a plasma chucker who can do 31 and recharge chucking plasma over his shoulder at speeds the mirak ships cannot keep up with and rearm at as they were not designed for plasma fighting.

Oh NO!! Not the FROG GUN!!   

The problem with the early PFT for all races approach is that you are then forcing all races to fly like Mirak.  Not something every non-Mirak player wants to do. 

I can understand your reasons for not wanting extra AI spawn for players flying droners or PFTs or whatever ship, and the Mirak are definitely at the bottom PvP wise which is why I pretty much took the issue out of the mission source code, and put it as an optional configurable feature in the shiplist.txt file.  Personally, I would not use it unless the ship's BPV (including full loadouts) went into BCH range (ie. 200 plus territory).

I definitely think that anyone flying a BCH, DN, and/or BB deserves extra AI in the missions cuz otherwise they are too easy for them. Plus, heavy iron ships are meant to be escorted and rare on the dyna. So, on the dyna, when I always find DN AI popping with the regularity of FFs, I find the mission to be quite amusing and has an icky un-realistic tone. DN AI should be reserved for special fleet action and/or planet/base missions which is why I took DN AI out of EEK patrols. If you're flying a BCH, DN or BB in a PvE EEK Patrol mission, you'll get an extra enemy AI, but no DN AI will show up.

Anyway, I really want a working SQL Server kit so we can put the mission times and disengagement rule debates to rest by having the server kit give bonus DV bumps for PvP wins.

[Hexx]

I'd just like to ask the admins to move this thread to hte appropriate forum.
It has nothing to do with bitter resentment at never being asked (let alone begged) to play in
the PBR league, and everything to do with my ongoing quest to make sure this forum stays on topic.

NOW DO WHAT I SAY ADMINS!!!

HA! YOU HAVE NO CHOICE!

Ah even the admins bow to my wishes on these forums..

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

The problem with the early PFT for all races approach is that you are then forcing all races to fly like Mirak.  Not something every non-Mirak player wants to do. 

Actually no, if you do that you are giving them an option, nobody is forcing anyone to fly anything.  They might like them to fly on the line,  to use to make money getting them into a larger ship faster, other uses, or not at all.

As a mirak player I would like a similar option in the form of a viable PvP ship in each class vs the high speed runaway plasma chuckers, but don't suggest doing so without offering the sharing of the mirak advantage of great hex-flipping. 

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Try and tell the pilot of a gorn BCH -- that a C7 should get cheap fast drones...

I pwnd countless C7's playing Gorn on past servers... with med speed drones. Fast ones made the task a bit harder... but that's the D2. That's why GSA players get pwnd so hardcore when they 1st come to the D2... and capped too. HAHAHA! You guys need to step up to the plate and bat a little harder and stop whimpering about free loadouts.

Aside from the adjustment to ships being captured for GSA players new to the dyna, I really think you should STFU Dizzy. I killed my 1st d-2 vet an hour into my first server and I've seen an awfull lot of your backside on servers while it runs accross that old red line. Generalizing that GSA players get owned hardcore when they come here is pure fantasy. 

[Dizzy]

If you've seen me cross the red line vs you then it's been in a ship two size classes smaller than yous. That or it was 3 to 1.

Have a nice day.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Full of crap. What a surprise. GW series and your FD7k?  Whatever that fast cruiser is. You couldn't bust my castling in a mirak light and new cruisers. Guess I'll have to take more screenshots. Keep your fantasies alive man. I'm sure 1 or 2 here enjoy your usual bluster.

[Corbomite]

C7 vs G-BCH is a bad example. The Gorn willl usually get pwnt even with slow drones, because they have a bad BCH compared to the C7.

 


Man, that's the funniest thing Iv'e read in months!

[Dizzy]

C7 vs G-BCH is a bad example. The Gorn willl usually get pwnt even with slow drones, because they have a bad BCH compared to the C7.

 


Man, that's the funniest thing Iv'e read in months!

Thats what I was saying...

Oh, and Tobin, I remember something like that... Yeah, I'll admit, I had a few embarrassing moments there in that series. That was one of them.

[KHH Jakle]

What was this thread about again.....

Hexx...I am not sure why you haven't bothered Mutilator to include you on their scheduling, especially since they are lined up to head some Lyrans for the next Mini Camp.

Besides, they'll need a pinch hitter when TT's connection starts crapping out the matches.. 

[el-Karnak]

The problem with the early PFT for all races approach is that you are then forcing all races to fly like Mirak.  Not something every non-Mirak player wants to do. 

Actually no, if you do that you are giving them an option, nobody is forcing anyone to fly anything.  They might like them to fly on the line,  to use to make money getting them into a larger ship faster, other uses, or not at all.

As a mirak player I would like a similar option in the form of a viable PvP ship in each class vs the high speed runaway plasma chuckers, but don't suggest doing so without offering the sharing of the mirak advantage of great hex-flipping. 

I am assuming that this regime is implemented to replace the disengagement rule. If it's used in conjuction with the disengagement rule then that's cool.

[FPF-DieHard]

. . . Mini Camp. . . .

Mini-camp and Hexx, kinda makes sense . . .

[Dfly]

I would have to agree with TobinDax on that one.  I flew with Kroma as a gorn my first server here, and have now flown 3 servers, and I will say that although I died twice in the first server, I killed 3, saw more run from me than I ran from, and to this date have never been Capped.   My stats only improved on the second and third server.  I will admit there are a few who come here and get a very quick awakening, but from what I have seen since I have been here, those are usually people who actually have not had years of experience in GSA.  Of course there are always a few, like HEXX  , who will never seem to improve no matter how many years they have been flying.

[Hexx]

It's tough to improve upon perfection 

LOL actually was talking about this with a friend the other day, I think -over all the years I've been playing this game
(first server was Rooks Tavern) that I've only accumulated 100K + prestige twice, maybe 3 times.
It's amusing that Chuut + Fluff have both outscored , or equalled, my entire lifetime prestige accumulation on one server.

I really need to play this game more.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

The problem with the early PFT for all races approach is that you are then forcing all races to fly like Mirak.  Not something every non-Mirak player wants to do. 

Actually no, if you do that you are giving them an option, nobody is forcing anyone to fly anything.  They might like them to fly on the line,  to use to make money getting them into a larger ship faster, other uses, or not at all.

As a mirak player I would like a similar option in the form of a viable PvP ship in each class vs the high speed runaway plasma chuckers, but don't suggest doing so without offering the sharing of the mirak advantage of great hex-flipping. 

I am assuming that this regime is implemented to replace the disengagement rule. If it's used in conjuction with the disengagement rule then that's cool.

I was meaning in addition to the DR, as long as the mirak are given boats that can compete with all races  in PvP, I have no problem having all races being able to compete with us in hex flipping.  To have one without the other would be retarded.