Topic: Challenges

[Hexx]

If you had a challenge system on a server (PVP)
would most people support
- direct challenges (ie player X can challenge player y, they must fight)
-"open" house challenges (side 1 can challenge side 2, any two players can fight)
-House challenge (a player from house 1 challenges house 2, house 1 player could end up fighting nyone from house 2)

I like the thrid option myself, just wondering if there's any dissenting opinions.

[FPF-DieHard]

- direct challenges (ie player X can challenge player y, they must fight)

Provided ship classes are equal makes the most sense. 

[Hexx]

Only thing I'm concerned with direct challenges is that it could have
some PVP ace continually challenge (by accident or intent) people who aren't that great at PVP.

I realize it's possible (like KCW was going to do before) to have some system of who can challenge who
howoften and when, but I'd rather avoid the record keeping that would entail.
(Mainly as I'd have to be the one to keep track of it)

[FPF-DieHard]

Only thing I'm concerned with direct challenges is that it could have
some PVP ace continually challenge (by accident or intent) people who aren't that great at PVP.

I realize it's possible (like KCW was going to do before) to have some system of who can challenge who
howoften and when, but I'd rather avoid the record keeping that would entail.
(Mainly as I'd have to be the one to keep track of it)

I must concede to your superior Canadien-beer-fed mind.

[GDA-Agave]

If you had a challenge system on a server (PVP)
would most people support
- direct challenges (ie player X can challenge player y, they must fight)

 
 Nope.  Only way I could see this option working is if you classified certain ships as "honor-bound" where pilots in those ships must fight every challenge

-"open" house challenges (side 1 can challenge side 2, any two players can fight)

Personally, this is the one I like.   Not every pilot likes PvP.  This option would let the pilots on both sides setup the conditions themselves, no admin involvement.

-House challenge (a player from house 1 challenges house 2, house 1 player could end up fighting nyone from house 2)

This might as well be called the "house champion" option.  If available most houses would always their best PvPer to answer the challenge.
You could impliment a "honor" VP system where even the pilot who answers the challenge gets honor VP pts, more if they are successful.   This might motivate some pilots to answer the challange who might not normally do so.


Just this Bruce's humble opinions.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

#3 is the best option

makes it so that if you go running your mouth and making challanges and boasts you had better be willing to back it up as the best will be coming for you.

Some informal pilot vs pilot challanges could still be made but would be left to the parties involved as to whether a fight would actually take place.

[Dizzy]

This is fantastic! I challenge everyone!

[ShadowLord]

Just a few comments here..

Needless to say a challenge system doesn't really bother me as I live for PVP, however to be honest I so  much prefer to fly 2v2 instead of 1v1 .. It almost elevates my level of play to have a wing me. That being said -- my idea would be that if someone wants to challenge me -- fine I can accept and then say its a 2v2 game. Maybe even dictate the Hull Size were going to use to fight -- after all you issued the challenge to me so I get to determine the weaspons of combat.

For me a 1v1 just isnt nearly as fun as a 2v2 game.
Now when they talked about challenges  in KCW I can understand why that concept was for 1v1.

Anyways I think informal challenges worked fantastic last AOTKII server. There were numerours cases where on the fly in general chat matches were arranged between myself and other players. In some cases they were 2v2, sometimes 3v3, once even a 1v1 another time it was a 2v1 (as I was flying a dread) it would all depend on what ships were being flown.

Not one of these matches had any problems with them -- all were informal and arranged in General Chat .. some times we had to wait a few min for players to purchase new ships to "even" out the game..but big deal..when it means you had a great match isnt it worth it? Honestly during the last server I would say that I got involved in no less then 10 pvp matches set up in this fashion.

I would not want to see somebody harass and hound another player off the server by trying to challenge them, however I do like the option. Maybe prior to the server starting if you wish to accept or offer challenges you can add your name to a list. If your name isnt on that list -- don't but the players for PVP??

The size of our community is my biggest concern here. Just don't want to make anyone quit over being forced into combat and having screen shots posted over their death.

KHH_ShadowLord

[C-Los]

As long as there isn't a penalty for not accepting.....there are times when your trying to raise the DV of a hex or some other assigned mission for your side.

Plus this last server we saw a lot more people accepting cause it didn't cost your side any pts.

People need to accept the response of someone if they say no or yes !

( Dizzy...ease up some, sometimes you do get a "little pushy" )     

[Hexx]

Informal challenges will be encouraged, simply for the RP aspect of the server
VP points won't be awarded for any of the informal challenges, although I am thinking of
directing Chuut to make some sort of banner for "Best Sportsmanship?Honour" etc.
Still server won't be for months so I've time to think about it.

I'm also thinking of using some sort of completely original idea and breaking the categories that you
can "win" the server into a few different ones. Most importnat (of course) being the hex flipping and control of territory
but also one where the house with the most honour gets some points
Thinking maybe you Win a fght 2 HP's fight (not just die) and lose get 1HP, running gets you nothing
Capping t00ls ships gets you like 100 or so (applied retroactively)

Still just trying to come up with something to capture the feel of an Honour- Bound -Samurai warrioresque backstabbing
Evil Empire race.

[Dizzy]

if you classified certain ships as "honor-bound" where pilots in those ships must fight every challenge

Awesome idea. If you fly a BC or DN you must take a challenge. BC's may challenge BC's or DN's, DN's challenge only DN. Stakes are high, 24hr penalty box if ever u lose a capital ship to a challenge or not... MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!~

[Hexx]

snip the whiny stuff

being forced into combat and having screen shots posted over their death.

KHH_ShadowLord

Where were you the last few months ?? 

[FPF-DieHard]

snip the whiny stuff

being forced into combat and having screen shots posted over their death.

KHH_ShadowLord

Where were you the last few months ?? 

We only post Screenshot of those who we know can take the joke or who utterly deserve it for smack talk (or if it is too funny not to share).

If Hexx ever kills me in anything resembling a fair fight I expect a Whole Website dedicated to the event 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Try this:

Whoever wishes may issue a challenge to whomever he wants whenever he wants.  If the challenge is accepted, both parties meet on GSA in a D6.  (Assume all houses have enough mothballed D6's that they don't mind giving them out for the settlement of personal grudges, and their loss will have no effect on the war)  The winner of the event earns much glory for his house, which is awarded in the form of Victory Points.

If the challenge is not accepted, no Victory or Penalty points are awarded to either side.  (It is a time of war, and every warrior is expected to subordinate his own honor to the needs of the service when required.)

-S'Cipio

[ShadowLord]

With the excitment shown about this -- any chance of the time frame being moved up..??

[Hexx]

Yessss, but then I'd need to keep track of
GSA matches and I'm not entirely sure I want to do that
Besides I've learned that calling for PVP VP's gets people upset.
If you call them "Honour Points" (note the "U") it confuses them mightily

I'm also considering removing the DN's as well, having the heaviest beastie on the Server be a C7 (or maybe
some super ship, DH had a link for some KHK equivalants a while back, maybe introduce something new..
I'd like to try and keep the ships *somewhat* balanced, and there isn;t a huge difference between a FD7K/D7W /C7
The C7 is of course the better ship, but an ace in one of the other two could take a poorly flown one I think.

I like the idea of "honour ships" (note the "u") - but it won't be BCH's or Dn's- even the Klinks aren't dumb enough to be
using them for personal duels rather than smacking planets and bases around. Maybe have the FD7K set up as one..

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of a duel awarding HP's.\
You fight and win-2
You fight and lose -1
You SD at start or run -0
You cap enemy-3

So even someone who fights pretty much anyone and will stick it out to the bitter end can score some points
whereas players like myself who tend to bug out when outgunned /overmatched will not.
This would only apply to "honour challenges", random PVP fights would not (I don't think)

[ShadowLord]

I like the ideas so far -- keep fine tuning them --

How about extra points for winning in a smaller or less capable ship? a plus one bonus for that..

Also maybe create a forum for posting of Challenge results only --

You shouldn't have to spend additional time keeping track of matches that way ..should allow you to do a quick summary. The winner goes and reports the kill the looser confrims the loss.

Duck

[Hexx]

With the excitment shown about this -- any chance of the time frame being moved up..??

The time frame was set as the end of the year for a few reasons
- it will be (I think) a down time for my business
- Scip is planning on a server in October, (see my Avatar for a clue on that one) Dizzy was mentioning SG whatver we're up to and a few others were mentioned. I assume they won't all run but it would give them time.

Could it run earlier?
Yes, but I want it to actually run, afaik KCW's been started at least twice, and failed both times. The extended lead time will hopefully
give everyone plenty of time to bash my ideas and concepts. I'd also like some of the Older Klinks (and others) to return
I don't think many of them will (especially if someone's silly enough to tell them who's running it) but maybe.


Don't really think I'd needa forum for challenges, really thinking more along the lines of winner posts that he won and whether it was
and 'honorable loss" for his enemy. (ie did the guy who didn't win give it a shot)

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Yessss, but then I'd need to keep track of
GSA matches and I'm not entirely sure I want to do that

I thought the true genious of my idea was that it involved work for the players (those smelly, grumpy things that whine a lot) but no extra work for the admin  (your adorable self.)

The challengers would report the results of the GSA challenge via a post in a thread, just like they do PvP fights on the D2.  The differences would be transparent to you.

-S'Cipio the Suckup

[el-Karnak]

People need to accept the response of someone if they say no or yes !

What he said. In the interests of the community, no should be forced to fight in a PvP match if they do not want to. Any challenger should not be  a wade about the challengee not accepting the challenge either. Unless the challengee is asking for it by being a wade first.

Before I moved onto SFC, I was in Age of Sail games where PvP duels and multi-player PvP games were most prevalent. Basically, all matches were scheduled many days in advance and done via direct IP. These matches can become really stressful for some people and some people cannot handle the pressure.  In addition, the ego displays on the forums could get really over-done sometimes.  Players quickly developed into two types:  the killer duellist or the fleet action team player.  Sometimes, the killer duellist would call out another person they did not like to settle a vendetta, and the ensuing flamewar was really bad.  But, the same duellist would not do well in fleet actions cuz they need to be more of a team player.  It was also common to see some players that always played on the same side to never contemplate challenging each other in a duel if one of them moved to a new fleet.

I started out as a dominant Fleet Action player and did really well leading teams of 4 to 7 players in a fleet action setting. But, eventally some of the killer duellist PO'ed me so much on the forums that I took a few weeks to become a killer duellist myself and became 2nd best in our league. Just so I could shut some of those loud-mouth PvPers up at their own game.

SFC is more of a duellist PvP type game, so it's very important that people can decline challenges without fear of peer community pressure otherwise you will most probably lose that player from the game.

As an aside, I think one of the biggest appeals of MMORGs is that a player can totally and anonymously  immerse themselves in various PvE activities and are safely away from PvP as much as their comfort zone allows.  In SWG, you can set your faction setting to neutral or "on leave" status so that it's impossible for a PvPer to challenge you in PvP play, but you can still be a Rebel or a Imperial or a Neutral faction. Of course, any PvPer being a wade on SWG forums are harshly dealt with.  For example, those constant screenshots of Hexx would find the poster in the ban zone.  The admins. would not get the joke.  These features plus lotsa social spaces is probably why SWG has one of the highest female player participation rates among all the MMORGs.  And, for SOE, more female players means they are getting more revenues than comparable competing MMORGs.  I actually met a female SWG player at work and she's paying for  two accounts (ie. $30 per month), but she only does PvE and never PvP.