Topic: Fragile Ideals  (Read 20704 times)

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Offline Governor Ronjar

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2006, 09:36:34 pm »
e...he heh heh heh heh heh!

Ron'jar likes.
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Offline Scottish Andy

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2006, 10:34:28 pm »
Brilliant! The Larster Returns. I had to go back and re-read the first parts to refamiliarise myself with the story again, but reading it all in the one go makes it flow all the better.

Good continuation, and I love that final image of Ranjar waving a bloody dagger over a bleeding body, just in time for his snapshot from the Fed ship.

The Fed nose-tweakiing continues:

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Starfleet’s expectations of Klingon usually involved blood, and an utter lack of it might raise suspicion.

Great line, and pretty true even in the TNG eps, through possibly for a different reason.

Minor nitpick: Constantinople to me doesn't seem like an impressive- or inspiring-enough name for a Ship of the Line, the flagship class of the Star Fleet. I'd forgotten that she was an unrefitted Constitution, and the image that the name brought to mind was an SFB Texas-class CL. It would also make a good name for an SFB NCA (Chicago, London, etc).

Now, I know you choose ship names with no regard for SFB/SotSF conventions, but you still pick them carefully. Why Constantinople?
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2006, 12:57:50 am »
Several reasons, Andy. 

1> A simple read of the city's history should give you some indication of its importance in European/Middle Eastern history.  Seemed like a worthy name for a Connie to me for this alone.

2> It's not a Western name.  Must all major Starfleet ships be named for a US, Japanese, or British ship from WWII?  I know that's an exaggeration, but I'd thought I'd toss in some name variety.

3> The Star Trek stories me and the Guv wrote waaaaay back in high school featured a Constitution with this name in a 'supporting role' and I tossed the name in as a sort of tradition.

4>  I liked how it sounded. ;D
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Jaeih t`Radaik

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2006, 10:09:33 am »
Heh, you won't get anywhere with La'ra on this one, Andy. He's as stubborn as a certain 'beta reader' I know.  ;D

1> I would say it is a very worthy name for a ship, though side with Andy and say it should be a CL or NCA, not a Constitution.

2> I totally agree with La'ra on this, but I've yet to do so in a Fred story. All my previous ones involving the UFP have been ships from my tech manuals (Illustrious, Jugurtha) or online pics (Vindicator).

Side: I just watched 'Kingdom of Heaven' and did supplimentary research on the Muslim general Saladin (Sala-ha-DEEN) and came away mightily impressed. This Kurdish man apparently comes out on top of England's own Richard the Lionheart in terms of chivalry and compassion, including for non-Muslims--and this was during the Crusades!--and he was way ahead of his time for that alone as well as being a brilliant general. The two were even friends! Anyway, it made me wish I'd used the Saladin as my destroyer from 'New Worlds, New Adventures' to give the name some air time--now taken care of by Lt. Q. I think the Saladin will become a guest star in future Andie stories.

3> I fully agree with and support this reason. It's called "internal consistency", and I consider myself a champion of thids cause.

4> See 1>  :P
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Offline CaptJosh

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2006, 04:50:32 am »
IIRC, Kurd is not technically correct, as the people S'allah Ad'din led were the Saracens. Now, it is possible that the Kurds can trace their ancestry back to the Saracens, but that is a piece of history that I don't know about. But you're right about what kind of man he was. He took in a starving Crusader Knight and ended up making the man his personal chronicler. And the Crusaders had orders to kill any armed Arab on sight, but the Saracen leader was operating on the old hospitality laws, laws that predate Islam. Did arabs torture Crusaders? Yes. But they learned how from the Crusaders in the first place.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2006, 07:13:35 am »
IIRC, Kurd is not technically correct, as the people S'allah Ad'din led were the Saracens.

Most sources I've seen mention that he's of Kurdish ancestry.

As for what 'Saracen' really means, Wikipedia had this to say...

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Wikipedia entry for 'Saracen'
The term Saracen comes from Greek sarakenoi, which is itself derived from an Arabic word, شرقيين sharqiyyin ("easterners"). This word was used in the early centuries of the Roman Empire to describe a nomadic Arab tribe from the Sinai Desert.

Later the Greek-speaking subjects of the Empire applied it to all Arabs. After the rise of Islam, and especially at the time of the Crusades, its usage was extended to all Muslims, particularly those in Sicily and southern Italy. In older Western historical literature, the term "Saracen Empire" was often used to refer to the Arab Caliphate under the rule of the Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties.
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"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Jaeih t`Radaik

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2006, 10:13:26 pm »
Trust me on this one, Josh: Saladin was Kurdish. Your source is wrong.

Like La'ra quotes, Saracen was a catch-all term applied to Muslims/Arabs at the time of the Crusades.

Using the Wiki as La'ra has, I find this on Saladin:

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Saladin (1137 or 1138–1193; Kurdish: Selahadînê Eyûbî; Arabic: صلاح الدين يوسف بن ايوب; al-Malik al-Nāṣir Ṣalāḥ al-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb; Salah al-Din being an honorific that means The Righteousness of the Faith in Arabic) was a 12th century Kurdish Muslim warrior who founded the Ayyubid dynasty of Egypt and Syria. He was also renowned in both the Christian and Muslim worlds for his leadership and military prowess tempered by his chivalry and merciful nature, during his struggle against the Crusaders.


Quote
Saladin was born into a Kurdish family in Tikrit and was sent to Damascus to finish his education. His father, Najm ad-Din Ayyub, was governor of Baalbek. For ten years Saladin lived in Damascus, at the court of Nur ad-Din (Nureddin).


Here is the link if you wish to check it out for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin
"I'm just observing. You know, making observations."
"Great. We'll stick a telescope in your head and put a dome over it, and we can call you an observatory."
Paris and Rory, from "The Gilmore Girls."


Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2006, 10:20:05 pm »
I was on that link a couple days ago looking for suitable names for Saladin's two shuttlecraft.  I'm leaning towards Tikrit and Damascus, although those seem to be more appropriate for Chicago Class Cruisers.  (But the Chicago Class Cruisers won't be commisioned for another 11 years in the story line so...I could go with it  :) )
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)

Offline CaptJosh

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2006, 02:05:13 am »
Ok. no problem. I didn't get all the details, I guess. I love learning about this stuff.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2006, 02:41:51 pm »
I think it's safe to say that so do the rest of us. ;D

My brain is occupied mostly by useless trivia.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Sethan

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2006, 05:27:50 pm »
I was on that link a couple days ago looking for suitable names for Saladin's two shuttlecraft.  I'm leaning towards Tikrit and Damascus, although those seem to be more appropriate for Chicago Class Cruisers.  (But the Chicago Class Cruisers won't be commisioned for another 11 years in the story line so...I could go with it  :) )

The TOS Enterprise's shuttles were named Galileo and Columbus (with Copernicus showing up in the Animated Series). 

That's two scientists (astronomers) and an explorer.

TNG kept the same theme, using  Farouk El-Baz, Marie Curie, Ellison Onizuka, Robert H. Goddard, Richard Feynman, and Stephen Hawking.

Going with the same theme, the names of arabic scientists or explorers would seem to fit.
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Offline Governor Ronjar

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2006, 05:22:31 pm »
Furthering the naming convention gripage, one need only look at Trek itself to see the whole convention system being raped. The first two Defiant we see are named Defiant and Valiant. The third mentioned by name was...Sao Palo...?! What the hell?

Then the Galaxies. Galaxy, Enterprise, Yamato, Odyssey and Venture were mentioned by name. What the hell kinda convention was that? It's like the guys naming our Seawolves are working for Starfleet.

But I love the resurrection of the old Constantinople. That ship whipped some ass back in the RPG and old story days.

--thu guv!
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Offline Jaeih t`Radaik

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2006, 06:58:22 am »
Heh, I agree, Guv. The 'canon' ST naming convention is a load of balls. Mind you, a lot of it was just ships named in dialogue and matched up to ships later on by production staff or fandom, like the Venture. It was the Admiral's ship for a DS9 relief force, and the special effects shot later showed a Galaxy, 2 Excelsiors and 2 Mirandas.

The Sao Palo though... I have no idea what that means. Is it Spanish or Mexican town? Is it the site of a battle? Does it mean something heroic in Spanish? If it's Spanish for Indefatigable or some such, then it's good.  ;D
"I'm just observing. You know, making observations."
"Great. We'll stick a telescope in your head and put a dome over it, and we can call you an observatory."
Paris and Rory, from "The Gilmore Girls."


Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2006, 11:26:03 am »
It's a city in Brazil.  The Wikipedia entry for San Paulo says it has a really high crime and police brutality rate.

 ;D
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Scottish Andy

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2006, 11:47:13 am »
Heh... then yes the Guv is right and it's a very sucky name for a ship in general. Until they clean it up by the 23rd century, obviously.  ;D

As for the naming convention... it shouldn't be named after a city, for sure. Like Jaeih said, Defiant, Valiant, indefatigable, Redoubtable, Resolute, Illustrious (maybe), Courageous (maybe), Tireless, Truculent, (Hmmm... these are all British... we have really cool ship names), L'Inflexible, Gloire, (French now... No good American ones, eh?  :P), and other such expressions of hardy human spirit should be used for this class.

City names are for ordinary cruisers like Mirandas and Constellations, or TNG frigates like the New Orleans.
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Offline Governor Ronjar

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2006, 02:06:14 pm »
Mind you, a lot of it was just ships named in dialogue and matched up to ships later on by production staff or fandom, like the Venture. It was the Admiral's ship for a DS9 relief force, and the special effects shot later showed a Galaxy, 2 Excelsiors and 2 Mirandas.


I'd say it is a safe bet that the Admiral was leading from the bigger ship. Unless he was like Martok, who led from the Rotaran (a Bird of Prey, and by her size, quite clearly a B'rel...Crazy bastard...).

And about the Sao Palo...maybe it was BECAUSE of the high crime rate that they named a Defiant after it...hmmm?

--thu guv!
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2006, 09:23:38 am »
It's coming along slowly, but it is coming...


---------------


“They were quite unhappy.”  Ran’jar declared.

“I’d imagine so.”  La’ra replied.  They stood in the small armory off the main transporter room. 

“Their executive officer was expecting battle.”  The First continued, removing the power pack from his rifle and stowing it in its assigned locker.  “I am not sure who he wished to kill more by the time we departed.  Us or his ‘allies’.”

“Either would have done, probably.”  Said La’ra.

“In any case, he wished to assure us that his fair captain would take measures to halt any further activities.”  Ran’jar unsealed his combat armor, placed it in the appropriate locker.  He also grumbled that advising them of the actions of rogue elements of the Rebel military might’ve allowed them to halt the activity without any bloodshed.”

La’ra snorted.  Ran’jar pulled on his regular uniform.

“He said what he’d been ordered to say.”

“Yes.”  Ran’jar agreed.

“They’re expecting us to attempt a dialogue.”  La’ra grumbled.  He leaned against a row of lockers.  “To negotiate here and now.”

“I’d expect so.”  The First agreed.

“And their Captain has not yet deigned to speak with us directly…he’s obstinate…”  The Commander considered for a few moments.  “He plans on stalling.  If we were to speak with him, he would act giving but concede nothing.  He would try to maintain the stalemate.”

“You’re considering trying to deal with him?”  Ran’jar asked.

“No.  Our original plan is better.  But if I thought he were a certain kind of man…”  The armory door slid open.  The grey-haired ship’s surgeon ambled in.

“Doctor.”  La’ra greeted.

“I’ve checked the rest of the assault team.”  Ker’lan grumbled and looked at Ran’jar.  “But not you.”

Ran’jar nodded, turned toward the doctor and stood quite still.  Ker’lan scanned him with one of his devices.

“You’re clean.”  The surgeon declared.  He turned toward the Commander.  “I have heard of your plan.  I wished to voice a thought, if I may.”

“Of course.”  Said La’ra.

“If your goal is to show the Rebels as the more offensive of the contending groups…”  The doctor began.  His words were stiff, rehearsed.  “..perhaps you should try to restrain the side we favor from any more unfortunate actions.  The Federation may insist that neutral parties look into the situation, and if so…”

“…it would be better to present them with a prettier picture than the Rebels can.”  La’ra finished.

“Yes.”  The surgeon confirmed.

“You’re correct.”  La’ra nodded.  “I will consider your suggestion.”

The Doctor nodded once, stiffly, and left the room.

“The transporter technician completed your medical scan.”  La’ra stated.

“Yes.”  Ran’jar replied.  “Our doctor has his own pet causes, I’d suppose.”

“Naturally.”  La’ra rubbed his temple.  “But he’s right.”

“Right because it will give us an advantage or right in that we should use to opportunity to restrain Heartreaver from any more atrocities?”  Ran’jar had that testing look in his eyes.  La’ra smiled.

“Both.”

“I always knew you were softer than you let on.”  Ran’jar snorted.  There was an odd quality to the noise.  A concealed chuckle perhaps.

“You find her actions honorable?”  La’ra asked, tone serious.

The First Officer regarded him coldly, and shrugged in a most uncharacteristic fashion.

“No.”  He said.  “I do not.”
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Grim Reaper

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2006, 12:40:15 pm »
La'ra! An update! you can't stop now m8. Gimme more!
Snickers@DND: If there is one straight answer in that bent little head of yours, you'd better start spillin' it pretty damn quick, or I'm gonna take a large, blunt object, roughly the size of Kallae AND his hat and shove it lengthwise up a crevice of your being so seldomly cleaned that even the denizens of the nine hells would not touch it with a 10-feet rusty pole

Offline Governor Ronjar

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2006, 11:31:26 pm »
Ah! The Gods have smiled upon the world today as mana from the heavens rain down amid us!!!

Phoo!!! (SPIT!)

No...wait...that's just bird doo-doo... Anyway, we got an update.

A meager transporter room scene though it was. Perhaps if he weren't Misti-fied so often...

 ;D
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'Jaken...are you pretending to be dead?' --Lord Sesshomaru, Inuyasha.

Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Fragile Ideals
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2006, 10:15:12 am »
A very short update to a story I'm sure people think I've forgotten.  No excuse on this one except that, for some reason, it comes to me slower than almost anything else I've attempted to write.

That said, hope you enjoy this (tiny) chapter...

--------------------


“This is Commander La’ra of the Imperial Klingon battlecruiser Hiv’laposh. A matter of grave import has arisen on Kelor Prime.”  La’ra began.  Around him, the bridge crew sat in silence.  “Rebel forces opposing the rule of Queen Naharra the Fourth has recently begun a campaign of genocide in the areas controlled by their forces.”

“On the sixth day of Kromarg, forces under my command prevented the execution of at least a dozen noncombatants who had been accosted by Rebel troopers.  Following this action, we obtained clear evidence that Kelorian Rebels are operating a series of death camps in which they deposit Naharran loyalists and any others who oppose their insurrection.”

“Orbital surveys had already provided us with some idea of these so-called freedom fighters campaign of terror, but now our suspicions can be backed up with proof.  Attached to this transmission are the data files collected by my ground forces following the raid.  These files contain confessions by Rebel officers, eyewitness accounts from Kelor civillians, video and audio records showing the incident that led to Klingon intervention and other data that will show I speak the truth.”

He nodded toward Ran’jar.  The First pressed a button, relaying the data.

“Given that this is an matter internal to the Kelor, it may be asked why our government is choosing to make other authorities aware of this situation.  It is well known that the Empire supports Queen Naharra and that the Rebels have gained much sympathy within the United Federation of Planets.  What is not so well known is that Starfleet has gone to great lengths to support the Rebel forces -- the cruiser Constantinople is in orbit of Kelor Primes as I speak -- regardless of the atrocities they have committed against loyalist civillians.”

“This situation is undesirable to the Klingon Empire, as it perpetuates an unstable situation on a planet we have a clear interest in.  A continuation of such pointless violence serves neither side.  It is for this reason that we call upon a neutral power…to be approved by both Queen Naharra and the Insurrectionist leaders…to arbitrate the conflict that currently divides the Kelor people.”

La’ra motioned to Ran'jar.

“Transmission completed.”  Ran’jar announced.

The Commander let out a sigh. The Constantinople was on the viewscreen.  There was, of course, no visible reaction from the Federation cruiser.  He wondered if the same was true of her Captain.

“Now we see if this works.”  He declared.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight