Topic: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!  (Read 4977 times)

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Offline Stormbringer

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Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« on: August 19, 2005, 12:16:47 am »
Carbon Nanotube Ribbon For Space Elevator
Carbon nanotube ribbons created in a University of Texas laboratory may stretch all the way into space. According to research to be published in Science today, Dr. Mei Zhang and his team have succeeded in creating yard-long ribbons of carbon nanotubes - just the sort of ultra-light, ultra-strong filaments needed to create the space elevator (among many other things).



(From Carbon Nanotube Ribbon)
The researchers started with a "forest" of nanotubes about 300 micrometres long, held together by van der Waals forces. They used the glue from a post-it note to tug at right angles at the nanotubes on the outside of the forest (see graphic below).

Still held together by van der Waals forces, the nanotubes were spun out into a metre-long strip no more than 10 micrometers thick. "When you pull on one, it actually pulls the others but it has to rotate," says researcher Ken Atkinson. Using this method the researchers produced the nanotube ribbon at a rate of 7 metres per minute, about three times slower than the rate for commercial wool spinning at 20 metres per minute.



(From Carbon Nanotube Ribbon Spun from Vertical Forest of Nanotubes)
The researchers then laid the nanotube ribbon on a piece of glass and soaked it in ethanol. This caused the nanotubes to line up more closely with each other making a transparent ribbon just 50 nanometres thick. Sheets more than a meter long, about two inches wide, and less than one-thousandth the width of a human hair thick can be pulled in less than a minute, by hand in the lab.

In his 1978 novel The Fountains of Paradise, Arthur C. Clarke writes about the enabling technology for a space elevator - the one-dimensional diamond (carbon) crystal:


"So you do have an invisible wire. Clever - but what use is it, except for parlour tricks?"
"I can't blame you for jumping to that conclusion. But it's quite wrong. The reason you can't see this sample is that it's only a few microns thick. Much thinner than a spider's web."

"...What is it?"

"The result of two hundred years of solid-state physics. For whatever good that does, it is a continuous pseudo-one dimensional diamond crystal - though it's not actually pure carbon. There are several trace elements in carefully controlled amounts. It can be mass-produced only in the orbiting factories, where there's no gravity to interfere with the growth process."

"Fascinating ... I can appreciate that this may have all sorts of technical applications. It would make a splendid cheese cutter."
(Read more about the One-dimensional Diamond Crystal)

A space elevator is essentially a long cable that is anchored on Earth at one end - and "anchored" at the other end 35,000 kilometers away by a satellite in geosynchronous orbit. Gravity and centripetal acceleration keeps the cable taut; a small elevator, or car, can crawl up the elevator at a fraction of the energy expenditure needed to actually hurl an object into orbit. Putting a satellite in orbit could cost hundreds of dollars per pound, rather than $7,000 per pound as it does on the space shuttle.

Read more at Little creation, big step and Space elevator comes closer to reality.

(Story submitted 8/19/2005)


Offline Bonk

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2005, 10:17:06 am »
Cool!  8)  (though a bit disappointed that its not meter long carbon nanotubes, but "ribbons" of 300µm tubes)

Interesting that this should come up now, for some reason, spider silk tethered geosynchronous sateliites have been rolling around in my mind lately...

I was reading lately of micro photonics components construction using spider silk and silicates to produce hollow tubes with a smaller internal diameter than ever achieved before (down to 2 nm I think?) previous techniques used carbon nanotubes I guess. Spider silk comes in varying thicknesses. Sounds like this "ribbon" might be better for a tethered satellite than spidersilk though.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3522
(maybe not, the post above describes 50nm thick ribbons, there is 10nm thick spidersilk described in the article I linked)
I regret not looking at spidersilk under the raman microscope before I quit my last job...  :smackhead: With the structure in hand, an automated solid phase peptide synthesis shouldn't be too hard.. mechanical "spinnerettes" of sorts, only they wouldn't run out of "juice" like natural ones...

Interesting to think about, I wonder how air-traffic would cope?

I see Arthur C. Clarke as a modern prophet. :notworthy:

(P.S. this idea got me so excited I crashed the webserver by trying to connect with my 31.2K connection to the article I linked and editing this post at the same time... seems apache got upset... damn stupid dial up...)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2005, 10:38:24 am by Bonk »

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2005, 11:05:18 am »
heh.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2005, 09:42:58 am »
Gentlemen, I caought this on another Forum, sorry no link to the article, but apparently It just came out within the last week.

Quote
WASHINGTON -
Transparent sheets made from minute carbon tubes may have uses ranging from artificial muscles to light-producing displays to electronic sensors, according to researchers at the University of Texas at Dallas.

The Texas scientists say the newly developed sheets are stronger than steel sheets of the same weight.

Commercial applications of the sheets may be possible in a short time, according to Ray H. Baughman, a co-author of a paper reporting the development in Friday's issue of the journal Science.

The researchers developed tiny carbon tubes, too small to see with the naked eye, and worked out a system to weave trillions of them into sheets about two inches wide and three feet long.

The sheets are stronger than equivalent steel or mylar, can carry electricity and produce polarized light.

Potential uses, the researchers said, include space applications such as solar sails, electrodes for light emitting diodes for displays, as solar cells to collect light, as bendable artificial muscles, as sources of polarized light, as antennas embedded in car windows and as electronic sensors.

Baughman said other potential uses being explored include structural composites that are strong and tough; batteries, fuel cells and thermal-energy-harvesting cells using nanotube sheet electrodes.

The nanotube sheets were developed by the Texas researchers working with researchers at the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in Australia.

The research was funded by the Defense Department's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, Air Force Office of Scientific Research, Texas Advanced Technology Program, Robert A. Welch Foundation and the Strategic Partnership for Research in Nanotechnology.

Stephen
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Offline drb

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2005, 06:47:40 am »
Hoi Folks,

Quote
"Fascinating ... I can appreciate that this may have all sorts of technical applications. It would make a splendid cheese cutter."


  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I have been working for a cheese shoppe for a month and a half now...

--News flash--

Over a month ago I got a much needed job driving a truck through the week, and selling cheese at one of the company's retail locations on Sat. It is good work that I enjoy doing.
My family is out East on a family farm. My 18 month daughter enjoys horseback riding, and playing with a dog that can fit her head in his mouth.
All is fine.

------------------

...that offers about 500 different cheeses. There is much to be said about a cheese cutter, but I will just say that I could really make good use of this technology. hehe

Take care

drb

P.S. Bonk, they asked about you at the store. I related that Toronto was deemed unfit during the heatwave, and you had returned East. They said that was unfortunate, then hired a high school kid. It seems like they were waiting for the young guy who currently works there to go to university before taking another on at that store. It is too bad they waited they should have taken you on Fri. and Sun. right away. Oh well, where you are now is better anyway.



Offline Bonk

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2005, 03:00:21 pm »
We like the moon!  ;D

P.S. Bonk, they asked about you at the store. I related that Toronto was deemed unfit during the heatwave, and you had returned East. They said that was unfortunate, then hired a high school kid. It seems like they were waiting for the young guy who currently works there to go to university before taking another on at that store. It is too bad they waited they should have taken you on Fri. and Sun. right away. Oh well, where you are now is better anyway.

Nice to know they were thinking of me. You're right, I'm in a good place to regroup. I ought to be "on my feet" again in no time.

I think I woulda sweated on the cheese too much anway... eeewww!

Offline Dracho

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 03:12:14 pm »
Anchor the wire, then bend it sideways by extending the orbit.  Imagine what a WMD you've just created.  A Garrot for an entire region of land.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2005, 10:02:56 pm »
The perfect wire for a weed whacker.

How compact would various inflatable objects be if made of this "ribbon"?  Boats, mattresses, balloons?   Inflatable armour for the SCA?  Military equipment?  Pontoon bridges for the corp of engineers?  Puncture resistant (immune?) tires? Inflatable tents (civilian and military). 

Scratch immune lens coatings?  New limits on suspension bridges? 

Until the detailed properties are available and estimates of commercial pricing these are of course all highly speculative.  The potentials however are far reaching.

Myself I would like to see this lead to the "battacitor" (see Philip Jose Farmer - Riverworld novels) as a battery replacement.  Hook them up to lightning rods and how much natural electricity could be caputered and used?  Without electrolytes how long would such a battery last?  How much power would it store? 
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Offline E_Look

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2005, 10:04:32 pm »
I think poor Storm thinks I rain and thunder on his picnics.  Ah what the heck, here goes anyway- what happens to a primarily CARBON fiber as it passes through the atmosphere full of oxygen, swimming with free radicals, bathed with ultraviolet and higher energy emissions, and frictional heating?  I'd say global warming is the least of your worries if you're the owner/operator/dependent of that tether!

I'd say some kind of oxide or polymeric coating with high temperature and mechanical and chemical stabiiity would be needed to protect the fibers, analogously, if weakly, to such as zinc on steel or paint on iron.

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 10:06:48 pm »
I think poor Storm thinks I rain and thunder on his picnics.  Ah what the heck, here goes anyway- what happens to a primarily CARBON fiber as it passes through the atmosphere full of oxygen, swimming with free radicals, bathed with ultraviolet and higher energy emissions, and frictional heating?  I'd say global warming is the least of your worries if you're the owner/operator/dependent of that tether!

I'd say some kind of oxide or polymeric coating with high temperature and mechanical and chemical stabiiity would be needed to protect the fibers, analogously, if weakly, to such as zinc on steel or paint on iron.

ot really. but remember i addressed this problem in my thread on spaced elevators. the carbon filiments will not be exposed to oxidation and so on because it will be embedded in a protective matrix.

Offline Death_Merchant

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2005, 05:08:11 pm »
Sorry Storm, more rain....  ;)

DM's Rules of Protective Coating Engineering
1) All coatings will crack
2) All cracks will be difficult/costly to inspect/detect
3) The coating with the most durability will have the worst CTE match with the base material
4) Most coatings will debond and spall, somewhere, eventually
5) Coatings should NEVER be relied upon to prevent a single-fault failure mode
6) I'm crazy for Coco Puffs
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Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2005, 08:08:59 pm »
LOL

Offline E_Look

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2005, 11:15:57 pm »
Unless it's chewing gum on your shoe or your brother's new car's floor mat.

(Fortunately, a dab of gasoline got it off the mat!)  All the roughest grass in the world can't get gum off your shoe!

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2005, 07:33:21 am »
Ok Now I know I spend too much time talking to you guys. I had the strangest Dream last night/This morning. I dreamnt that Jerry and I where on a conferance call with E_Look, trying to raise capital, so we could use those Carbon Nanotubes to ....


Make Tires. Yep, Carbon Nanotube Tires.

Stephen needs Coffee.
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Offline E_Look

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2005, 01:47:50 pm »
And I need to raise the capital.

STOP DREAMING AND DO IT ALREADY!! ;) ;D

Offline Bonk

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2005, 04:50:28 pm »
Ok Now I know I spend too much time talking to you guys. I had the strangest Dream last night/This morning. I dreamnt that Jerry and I where on a conferance call with E_Look, trying to raise capital, so we could use those Carbon Nanotubes to ....


Make Tires. Yep, Carbon Nanotube Tires.

Stephen needs Coffee.

 :rofl:

Reminds me of the carbon fibre flywheel vehicle. (which I'm a strong proponent of..)

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2005, 08:03:55 pm »
E-Look wonders about the durability of Carbon Nanotubes.  Silicon is less reactive but can form comparable molecular structures (which is why silicon based life is in SciFi).  What would the properties (and durability) of Silicon Nanotubes in comparison to Carbon?  Harder to make most likely, more durable I would think.
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Offline E_Look

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2005, 11:36:55 pm »
I almost have some firsthand familiarity with nanotubes.  So far, we are able to form carbon-based ones.  Silicon?  Great idea.  Now, how to get started?  The actual reaction chemistry of silicon is different enough from that of carbon and therefore, any potentially resultant structures may be different...

... but who cares?  Vive la difference!  Still, I'd prefer a solid (nano)fiber over any hollow tube for mechanical purposes, unless the bore fulfills some need.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2005, 06:41:00 am »
I almost have some firsthand familiarity with nanotubes.  So far, we are able to form carbon-based ones.  Silicon?  Great idea.  Now, how to get started?  The actual reaction chemistry of silicon is different enough from that of carbon and therefore, any potentially resultant structures may be different...

... but who cares?  Vive la difference!  Still, I'd prefer a solid (nano)fiber over any hollow tube for mechanical purposes, unless the bore fulfills some need.

I got samples of two different sizes of carbon buckyballs and two different sizes of carbon nanotubes once... the balls made a nice purple solution in hexane... intensely colored... was only a 2 ppm solution I prepared as I recall, still had lots of color, unless hexane had degraded them somewhat into other chromopohores, but a mass spec of the solution showed the expected masses... as I recall the tubes did not dissolve/suspend in hexane (this was about 12 years ago).

Anyway, carbon nanotubes as I understand it are produced by laser ablation of graphite... not sure if there is an analagous phase of silicon that would be suitable for ablation of new structures from its surface... in fact a "graphitic" form of silicon alone might be a significant achievement (thinking electronics...)

Offline E_Look

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Re: Meters Long Carbon Nanotube Ribbons Made Easy!
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2005, 11:29:18 am »
Some folks currently use other means, I think.  Some guy was droning on about it one day and I didn't care to pay attention.  But I think it had to do with curling protein based systems.  In any case, you don't get the mechanical/chemical stability or silicon or silicon oxides.