Topic: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass  (Read 2927 times)

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Offline Stormbringer

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Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« on: August 15, 2005, 03:48:42 am »
Is jiggling vacuum the origin of mass?

Where mass comes from is one of the deepest mysteries of nature. Now a controversial theory suggests that mass comes from the interaction of matter with the quantum vacuum that pervades the universe.
The theory was previously used to explain inertial mass – the property of matter that resists acceleration – but it has been extended to gravitational mass, which is the property of matter that feels the tug of gravity.

For decades, mainstream opinion has held that something called the Higgs field gives matter its mass, mediated by a particle called the Higgs boson. But no one has yet seen the Higgs boson, despite considerable time and money spent looking for it in particle accelerators.

In the 1990s, Alfonso Rueda of California State University in Long Beach and Bernard Haisch, who was then at the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics in Scotts Valley and is now with ManyOne Networks, suggested that a very different kind of field known as the quantum vacuum might be responsible for mass. This field, which is predicted by quantum theory, is the lowest energy state of space-time and is made of residual electromagnetic vibrations at every point in the universe. It is also called a zeropoint field and is thought to manifest itself as a sea of virtual photons that continually pop into and out of existence.

Rueda and Haisch argued that charged matter particles such as electrons and quarks are unceasingly jiggled around by the zero-point field. If they are at rest, or travelling at a constant speed with respect to the field, then the net effect of all this jiggling is zero: there is no force acting on the particle. But if a particle is accelerating, their calculations in 1994 showed that it would encounter more photons from the quantum vacuum in front than behind it (see Diagram). This would result in a net force pushing against the particle, giving rise to its inertial mass (Physical Review A, vol 49, p 678).

But this work only explained one type of mass. Now the researchers say that the same process can explain gravitational mass. Imagine a massive body that warps the fabric of space-time around it. The object would also warp the zero-point field such that a particle in its vicinity would encounter more photons on the side away from the object than on the nearer side. This would result in a net force towards the massive object, so the particle would feel the tug of gravity. This would be its gravitational mass, or weight (Annalen der Physik, vol 14, p 479).

Rueda and Haisch say this demonstrates the equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass – something that Einstein argued for in his theory of general relativity. "In place of having the particle accelerate through the zero-point field, you have the zero-point field accelerating past the particle," says Haisch. "So the generation of weight is the same as the generation of inertial mass."

The idea is far from winning wide acceptance. To begin with, there's a conundrum about the zero-point field that needs to be solved. The total energy contained in the field is staggeringly large – enough to warp space-time and make the universe collapse in a heartbeat. Obviously this is not happening. Also, the pair's work can only account for the mass of charged particles.

Nobel laureate Sheldon Glashow of Boston University is dismissive. "This stuff, as Wolfgang Pauli would say, is not even wrong," he says. But physicist Paul Wesson of Stanford University in California says Rueda and Haisch's unorthodox approach shows promise, though he adds that the theory needs to be backed up by experimental evidence. "If Haisch [and Rueda] could come up with a concrete prediction, then that would make people sit up and take notice," he says. "We're all looking for something we can measure."



THIS ARTICLE APPEARS IN NEW SCIENTIST MAGAZINE ISSUE: 13 AUGUST 2005

Written by MARK ANDERSON

http://www.newscientist.com


Offline E_Look

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2005, 08:28:23 am »
Well!  That's a welcome development, something that challenges a present hypothesis that appears unprovable.  But this quantum vacuum... it still remains to be seen whether it TRULY exists outright, like an electron, or is it due to the human mind's inability to perceive past the Heisenberg limit.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2005, 09:06:29 am »
Sounds kinda like hooey to me. Much like what it is trying to replace:

Quote
For decades, mainstream opinion has held that something called the Higgs field gives matter its mass, mediated by a particle called the Higgs boson. But no one has yet seen the Higgs boson, despite considerable time and money spent looking for it in particle accelerators.

I don't think anyone will ever experimentally confirm one of these - "look how big my scientific vocabulary is" theories.

They are using electromagnetic radiation and photons (neither still fully understood) to explain something that is not understood at all. (Gravity and mass). For now all we have is the empirical observation of its adherence to an inverse square law much like electrostatics.

I'm waiting on the results of the "Gravity-Probe B" experiment myself - though I suspect the experiment is fatally flawed in design. I have this hunch that SETI based on EM (radio) is a colossal waste of time. I suspect that gravity would be the medium of choice for instantaneous communication over long distances (even attenuated by the square of the distance), should we ever make contact I expect it will be that way...

I don't buy "quantum vacuum" at all. Electronic states of molecules and energy states of nuclei are quantized - its a simple thing. I think the word quantum gets overused and abused just because it sounds cool.

More experiment, less theory.

Offline E_Look

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2005, 01:39:04 pm »
I agree completely, Bonk, just like "quantum fluctuations" and "creation/annihilation" operators are misused.

Offline Dracho

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2005, 11:03:58 pm »
Well Duh!  Everyone knows a priest gives mass..
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline E_Look

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2005, 11:43:56 pm »
Nah, for fundies, it's the after-service lunch; lots of folks gain mass.

Offline Dracho

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2005, 07:29:42 am »
Well, seriously, I always thought mass was a manifestation of the potential of energy
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline E_Look

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2005, 11:29:16 am »
Be careful with your terminology; potential and potential energy are two separate things, even if related.  Potential energy gets converted to mechanical or electrical or thermal or light energy.  You may be thinking of Einstein's ΔE = Δmc2, which you may interpret as "mass potentially convertible to energy (as in a atomic bomb) or energy convertible to mass (as can be seen in some particle creation processes)".  I guess cosmologists often speak of it in this way... so you may be right after all.

Offline Stormbringer

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2005, 03:29:26 pm »
Pfffffft! I'd like to see just one scientist who could program a VCR!

Offline E_Look

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2005, 04:06:27 pm »
That's why some of us have kids.  Unfortunately, in a few short years, they take over the VCR.

Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2005, 06:59:19 pm »
Some time ago I stumbled onto the Wave Structure of Matter Theory.
At first I scoffed, knowing something about the Michaelson/Morley experiment, but nonetheless I was intringued.
It appears that WSM might be another viable model.

Two URLs to check out:

The first is lengthy, and a bit self centered (it is a frenchman though) though it has very nice animations and lots and lots of equations to illustrate his hypothis. 
http://www.glafreniere.com/matter.htm


The second site has some additional content and links
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/summary-faq-wsm.htm

and the animations:
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/science-physics-wsm-wave-diagrams.htm

Bonus Link-->
 the Milo Wolff primer and Animation
http://www.quantummatter.com/see.html
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Offline E_Look

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2005, 10:26:22 pm »
The only issue I have with WSM as these guys present it is, as you noted, the results of the Michelson-Morley experiment.  But this does not mean that there may not be another kind of "ether"... it's just that I don't believe it.

Offline RazalYllib

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Re: Alternate to Higgs explanation of Mass
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2005, 06:56:50 am »
The puzzleling bit is that the M/M interferometer is subject to a lorentz contraction that would precisely cancil any phase difference it would detect, that much I can infer from the detailed explaination.
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
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Don't give it up
You got an empty cup
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