Topic: Another American Airline may be going down

[Jack Morris]

http://biz.yahoo.com/cbsmb/050816/a7adabfb004a10aa90a576137c6ea4.html?.v=1

[Sirgod]

Heck I thought you where referring to that crash in Venezuala that happened today. 152 people on board. From what I've heard Rescue crews are having a hard time getting to the plane due to the terrain.

Stephen

[toasty0]

Different folks, different priorities, Steve.

[Jack Morris]

Coming from such a colorful person as you it really means something to me T. 

You get off the sauce and go take your meds instead of using that excuse against others on this forum, and I'm not talking about things directed at me either.

[Jack Morris]

It doesn't matter to some that this will be the 3rd U.S. airline to go bankrupt and will cost thousand their jobs. I would say Americans taking care of Americans first is a FAR more noble priority than crying over some other country's disaster, especially one that many have voiced opinion AGAINST because Chavez does not blow Bush, and is giving China preference in the oil industry there. The day will come when China conducts fleet excercises in the Gulf of Mexico and around Latin America, mark my words.

[Jack Morris]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050816/dctu036.html?.v=20

Not good, not good at all. I would not be surprised to see the Feds have to step into this, as if they have not had to do enough stepping in already?

[Sirgod]

I don't think T meant anything Derogative towards you jack, rather acknowledging your Fervent love of stocks and buisness. as far as another airline , man It's been hard on all of them. I think the only one that has made a profet since 9/11 was southwest, IIRC.

Stephen

[toasty0]

Coming from such a colorful person as you it really means something to me T. 

You get off the sauce and go take your meds instead of using that excuse against others on this forum, and I'm not talking about things directed at me either.

You mean tobasco sauce? Gee, Jack, I haven't pissed in your cheerios in quite some time and yet you're so skitish over that one time you think everything I say is directed at you. Well it ain't so get over yourself. I have.

[toasty0]

It doesn't matter to some that this will be the 3rd U.S. airline to go bankrupt and will cost thousand their jobs. I would say Americans taking care of Americans first is a FAR more noble priority than crying over some other country's disaster, especially one that many have voiced opinion AGAINST because Chavez does not blow Bush, and is giving China preference in the oil industry there. The day will come when China conducts fleet excercises in the Gulf of Mexico and around Latin America, mark my words.

That's why just yesterday you were crowing about how you had made a killing by investing in a forgiegn comapny, right Jack?

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163359282.msg1122608588.html#msg1122608588

They are Norway owned, but Bermuda based (Most maritime companies are for tax reasons, and it is entirely legal) and VERY well managed. Thus the buyout attempt last year at American owned GMR, the buyout almost happened because Frontline told GMR shareholders "We can do it better." When a martimes stock goes up over 6 bucks in a DAY that means a lot of people were interested in the buyout.

So, how exactly did this help America's Airlines or help American workers?

[Just plain old Punisher]

Airline stock has never been a very solid investment IMHO.

[Dracho]

A good rule of thumb is this:

Avoid stocks where Americans are competing.
Look for stocks where Americans are innovating.

[Clark Kent]

It's no wonder the airlines are going bankrupt.  Since 9/11 quality of service has seriously dropped and security really isn;t much better for it.  I'd rather drive than fly, since I can be denied flight if I look at someone funnyat the airport.  People get tired of it.  higher fuel costs, inflation being higher than wage increases, etc, not as many people want to fly.
Que sera sera.

[Jack Morris]

Do your homework on American owned airlines and you will know why they are in danger, it's called MISMANAGEMENT and GREED. As one forum member pointed out they were never a solid investment to begin with.

UAL(United Airlines) - down because of 9-11, currently in bankruptcy - stock sucks



American airlines - down because of 9-11, currently out of bankruptcy - stock holding steady since coming out of bankruptcy

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AMR&t=5y

Southwest airlines - only airline company posting a profit - has EPS but they really suck 

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=LUV&t=5y

Delta airlines - going down like a jet with no power - expect bankruptcy unless a miracle happens

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=DAL&t=5y

America West airlines - seesawing between breakeven and bankruptcy

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AWA&t=5y

Continental airlines - hurt by 9-11, breakeven at best, in danger of bankruptcy

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CAL&t=5y

JetBlue airlines - main competitor to SWA - operating at a profit - stock was very highly valued even after 9-11

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CAL&t=5y

Northwest airlines - always a problem, enough said

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=NWAC&t=5y


Main problems of American owned airlines IMO? Like GM, they were giving themselves too much in pension plans (United's was just thrown on the backs of American taxpayers) and living in la-la land. The old school corporate attitude must die, this giving out millions in pay, stock, and benefits to the boards is just insane. You mean to tell me you would not be CEO of an airline for 250k a yr plus free travel and corp. perks? I know I WOULD! Yet these guys get millions.

The unions are screwy as well. They try to say their people are underpaid, maybe they are, maybe not. Then someone PLEASE explain to me why SWA's pilots are the highest paid out of the American carriers AND the company still turns a profit?  I think we will see an unspoken general payscale for regular employees among the airlines, this will lead to which company is the best work environment to work in instead of which pays me a lot more?

Last but not least, lets look at the star of the show in the international spotlight, and to think it is a Latin American airline! Wow!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GOL&t=2y

Like SWA they use the dependable 737s. Look at those EPS! The whole company is singing "The only way is up"

I think it would behoove American airlines to look at their business model, much like our American auto manufacturers woke up and studied Japanese techniques.

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Okay, Jack, I am going to say something.  No, I fully agree corporate execs are paid way too much, but before you crow about how well a foreign countries airlines are doing, remember that most of them fly and claim diplomatic sanctions.  That means they get to land at our airports and the American Taxpayer gets to eat those fees!!
   American filghts don't get to do that.

[Elvis]

Airline analysts have be predicting for monthes that both Delta and Northwest are going to be in bankruptcy before the end of the year, and that probably will be before the bankruptcy rules change in November(?). Foreign airlines don't compete in our domestic market so it is hard to compare apples too apples.

One thing to look at is the growth of our airports. Phoenix Sky Harbor is like a mini empire, with a use it or lose it attitude; hell there talking about spending a billion dollars on a people mover system similiar to Orlando's that will move people from the future light rail station through the airport to the new rental car faciltity which can't be more than five miles distant. Airlines are in bankruptcy but the fee and taxes assessed further the expansion of nearly every major airport. Because of competition the airlines aren't charging what it costs to really fly, and there having problems keeping their costs low. Mix that with an inefficient hub and spoke system and you have one big headache for the airline industry.

As far as 9/11 is concerned you can do the research but the industry is already back to pre 9/11 passenger counts but with fewer seats in the sky, which should be a good thing but the airline industry is still crashing.   

[Jack Morris]

Roger that Elvis, good analysis. I myself MIGHT have invested in an airline prior to 9-11 (Some airlines were pretty solid stockwise), but now? I think a LOT of American investors feel the same. We all know it takes money to make money, and those airlines are going to have to find ways to make CASH while they are in a difficult period of adjustment. I would say mergers will probably happen, this will cut competition and add more cash to the coffers.

As for GOL, Angel, I do not know if Brazil subsidizes their airlines or not. If they do, another Latin American company would be foolish not to take advantage of that (Brazilian HQ company). If you read GOL's profile, their fleet is still small. It's little things that make a difference, they do not give in-flight meals (Like SWA does not), and are modeled after SWA.

I myself do not  agree with those tax free landings either. I think if one airline pays (Domestic or foreign) then ALL should pay. If an airline does'nt want to pay and do service, it's their decision. Ou rdomestic airports do rake it in off of us every year, don't they? When did you ever hear of a major airport having financial troubles? 

[Dracho]

Don't cram me into a sardine can 3 rows thick for 6 1/2 hours and I'd gladly pay them more.  The American Airlines have made flying such a miserable experience they deserve to have the herd culled.

The positive side is that, like telecom, when enough major players fall out the strong ones that survive will become profitable again.

That or just re-regulate the industry.