Topic: If Wishes Were Horses

[Scottish Andy]

Thanks, Grim, I'm glad you liked it!

I'm going to give myself a couple of weeks off from posting any stories here as I want to try and start my next brand new one, but I will give you another story to read, and like Jaeih said about her own 'First Steps', I am very proud of this story and think that this is my best work to date.

The story is called 'Aftermath', and it is a direct sequel to my first story, 'The Two-Day War'.

For those of you who aren't lazy and don't want to wait the 2 weeks for just Chapter One, here's where you can read the whole thing now:

http://www.starbase23.net/Stories-Andy-03Aftermath.html

Enjoy, and let me know what you think of it.

Kadh, I had someone else read this and they agreed with you. More succinctly, they said the were pretty pissed off that they made the emotional attachment to some of these people and their ship, and then had me blow it/them up. They didn't quite phrase it as you did, but I still think this is TOS. Most of the main characters are still alive, even though the ship and other main/supporting characters are dead, so it's kinda STIII-ish.

The basic premise I wanted to convey here is that not everyone is as good as Scotty & Co, and sometimes bad things happen to good people. If I made you feel that way, then I can come away satisfied.

[Commander La'ra]

Kadh, I had someoneelse read this and they agreed with you. More succinctly, they said the were pretty pissed off that they made the emotional attachment to some of these people and their ship, and then had be blow it/them up. They didn't quite phrase it as you did, but I still think this is TOS. Most of the main characters are still alive, even though the ship and other main/supporting characters are dead, so it's kinda STIII-ish.

I both agree and disagree with Kadh.

I believe that, if you were trying to recapture a completely TOS feel, you failed.  While the style is sometimes criticized as unrealistic or comic booky, Kadh's comments about how the story ends up in a 'pure Star Trek' tale are correct.  I personally don't see this as a failing of Star Trek.  TOS' purpose was not to be a gritty series like Battlestar Galactica (the new one) where the survival of the characters is always in doubt.  It's more a morality play, taking familiar characters and placing them into a situation that presents a modern-day (or sometimes timeless) problem and seeing how heroic icons would work things out.

So your story is not TOS.  I won't, however, go so far as to say it's not Star Trek.

I'm a big fan of the Star Trek universe for a variety of reasons.  When I was younger, it was the cool ships.  Nowadays, it's more because of it's immense size and potential for unique stories.  I think that you can do all sorts of things in the STU and it's all Trek, it's just not the same Trek as everyone elses.  So to me, your story is Star Trek, it's just your personal take on it.  It's a story you created, set in the STU, without any intention on your part of it being The Original Series because it's SAT (Scottish Andy Trek).

Now as for the story itself...well, I enjoyed it, despite feeling the same thing that your other reviewer mentioned.  Bad thing would occasionally happen to Starfleet vessels, probably when they were, in fact, trying to save the day, but it's still a letdown to read an entire story based on these people, then have the lion's share of them killed in the end.  Sure, things like that happen, but the question of 'is it entertaining to read about' is open to debate.

Honestly, part of the problem may be the last two chapters.  Somehow...and I'll have to reread things to try and expound on how, I'm not quite managing to verbalize it yet...the destruction of the Lor'tana seems forced and a bit contrived.  There's something in there that makes me think 'this ship is going boom for no other reason than the author wants it to'.  This could be solely my own perception.  I'm not sure.  If anyone else felt this and can formulate why, I'd appreciate it.

The basic premise I wanted to convey here is that not everyone is as good as Scotty & Co, and sometimes bad things happen to good people. If I made you feel that way, then I can come a way satisfied.

I have a quibble with this.  No, everyone in the STU isn't going to be the crew of the Enterprise, Hyperion, or Hiv'laposh.  On the other hand, we're still talking about Starfleet officers, who've seen and done things most average joes would never think of and who do the things they do on a day to day basis.  For the most part, in this story, you captured this effectively, which might be part of why the ending seems a little contrived because I sort of lost the sense of this in the last chapters.

Overall opinion:  Good story with some blemishes I have no idea how to fix, or even if they should be.

[Scottish Andy]

Larry, I kinda agree with some of what you're saying there. Surprisingly, the bit at the end where you say it seems contrived. Just as I was reposting it and got to the second last chapter, I thought it was going pretty good. Then when a couple of you said it was a good cliffhanger, I kinda had a flash (like the one in the sky) that said "oooh, missed opportunity" because I knew it wasn't really a cliffhanger. I knew that it was for sure they went "boom". But when I read "cliffhanger" just before posting the final chapter, I suddenly realised that it was a bad ending. It was rushed, forced, and I could have rewritten it better. It should have been another chapter yet, at least.

However, this is an old story and I want to move on (ref. Jaeih and her never-ending 'Kestrel' saga). So, it'll stand until I feel trapped an unable to write anything else and maybe I'll try it as a block-breaking exercise.

[Governor Ronjar]

I recently read an author's note in the SciFi Book Club's booklet which I subscribe to. Refering to one of her stories, 'The Sundering', Jacqueline Carey mentions how very few authors these days will even touch a tragedy, when centuries past saw them in abundance.  Back in those times, writers and poets were uninhibeted by guidelines and genres. They conveyed their point and meaning in the manner that suited their art.

Star Trek, and TOS in particular was ripe with clasical story archetypes, and tragedy is one of these achetypes. You never saw the Enterprise go boom, at least not till STIII, because that would have pretty much ended the 'five year mission'. In STIII it was done to drive home what Kirk would sacrifice in order to save his friend, and do what he felt was right. And, after all, it was just a ship, no matter what emotional semblance had been placed in it in the 20+ years they'd all lived aboard her.

Bad things do indeed happen to good people. All the time. I can think of so many instances in my own life without bothering to look at anyone else's experiences. Each instance is its own story. Star Trek of any era, and story-telling itself, should be the same. Not just telling the same old 'good guys come out on top' line, but exploring all the fascets of experience as well. This is truely imaginative creation.

I thought your story to be a good, classical example of the tragedy, with the added point of showing the aftermath of the situation on its participants. This was something seldome done in writings of, say, Homer or Shakesphere. In Romeo and Juliet, both characters kill themselve, neither lives on with the grief and regrett a survivor might. In the end, all was still right with the world, as all the survivors eventually forget and don't care as much any more.

La'ra enjoys stories with happy endings, and I doubt he'll ever concede to write a story where the 'bad-guys' win. It isn't in his nature. He truely believes the good guys will always come out in the end. It's an admirable quality, but I don't share it. I'm not sure what he sees as being 'contrived' or 'forced'. I'll pummel him later for that answer...

Kahd seems to me to be all-about-the-Trek. That's cool, but your story IS Trek. It just isn't typical.

Them's my long-winded thoughts.
--thu guv!

[Andromeda]

It's about expectations.  When  you read something Star Trek related, you have a body of expectations and one of them is that everyone will be fine in the end as long as they are the main characters.  This story clearly goes against those expectations.  When you read a tragedy from classical literature, you expect it to be a tragedy.  Here you expect a Star Trek happy ending.  Because it's Star Trek, even after the captain exclaimed something about her ship in response to the explosion in the sky, I expected the ship to be fine. I thought he'd beamed the antimatter out and it exploded in the air.  I think we tend to forget the other possibilties because of the implications of the genre.

This is a good story.  I liked it, even the ending.  I think it suffered some from the format - posting in parts - and would have been better read as a whole.  Had I known that most of the characters were going to die, I doubt I would have read it from the start.

SA: next time if you think the cliffhanger's a bad idea, listen to yourself.  I think it's hard to properly critique a story until you've read the whole thing.

[Commander La'ra]

La'ra enjoys stories with happy endings, and I doubt he'll ever concede to write a story where the 'bad-guys' win.

Already have.  Remember Soulmates?  The one both you and our Jarhead friend cursed me and threatened bodily harm over?

It isn't in his nature. He truely believes the good guys will always come out in the end. It's an admirable quality, but I don't share it.

Be more accurate to say I believe in karma.  Sooner or later, if you're a nasty SOB, it's gonna come back and bite you in the ass.  How hard depends on how much of an SOB you tended to be, and for how long.  Plenty of examples of this in our own lives, too, though I'll refrain from mentioning any of them here.

Note this doesn't mean that the 'good guys' always win.  In many cases it's the 'bad guys' own actions that eventually doom them....and I do mean eventually.  Sometimes it takes years or decades for the Piper to demand his payment.  Not exactly gratifying to those who were harmed. 

Your own examples illustrate this, by the way.  How many of Shakespeare's tragedies focused on  nice people?

I'm not sure what he sees as being 'contrived' or 'forced'.

I mean the last bits of the story reminded me of the Diane Carey novels we've talked about, where it's obvious that the ship/crewmember/whatever exists solely to be destroyed or killed to get a certain reaction for the audience.  It doesn't seem 'real', like the natural progression of the story, it seems like the author arbitrarily ruled that it would happen.

Unlike Ms. Carey, Andy managed to not succumb to this until the final chapters.  This leads me to believe he was in a hurry to finish or something of that nature.

Also remember that I mentioned, you know, liking the story.   If Andy's telling the tragic story of the USS Lor'tana, then yeah, the ship goes boom.  It's the whole point.  But it needs to feel right or it loses it's effectiveness.  Again, I have to stress that this ain't a bad piece of work.  Rommie may be right about the format, too.

I'll pummel him later for that answer...

You'll try.

[Governor Ronjar]

La'ra, cocky and argumenative as always. And I thank you!

Not sure where you were going by mentioning Shakesphere. Romeo and Juliet merely wanted to get it on, and no one wanted them to do so. They certainly weren't bad people. Not as familiar with Shake as I was in HickSchool though...

The whole idea about not getting what one expects from a Trek story I can grasp. That's why I like stories that differ so much. Like the 3rd season Enterprise episode where the crew steals a warp injector from a group of poor saps who were also stuck in the Expanse. I loved it. There was very little one could do to sugar coat the situation, though most any one facing the death of ALL their race would have done so.

I can also agree with a story seeming forced. I didn't get that from this one, necessarily, though it did seem as though the decision was made rather far into the story. No forboding... I love to forbode. Such as forboding to the pummeling I will give you saturday, dik! And if it don't happen then, just wait till the Thieves game! Rostovaunt Goustave has a nit to pick with ye...

All in all, I saw few faults in the story, which I believe most of us agree to anyway. Keep 'em coming Andy!

[Commander La'ra]

La'ra, cocky and argumenative as always. And I thank you!

 

Not sure where you were going by mentioning Shakesphere. Romeo and Juliet merely wanted to get it on, and no one wanted them to do so. They certainly weren't bad people. Not as familiar with Shake as I was in HickSchool though...

Yeah, but they were kinda the exception.  Look at Macbeth or his wife for an example of what I mean.  Or Brutus for that matter.  Sure, he was honorable and such, but he also conspired with a bunch of dudes in togas to stab his best friend.

The whole idea about not getting what one expects from a Trek story I can grasp. That's why I like stories that differ so much. Like the 3rd season Enterprise episode where the crew steals a warp injector from a group of poor saps who were also stuck in the Expanse. I loved it. There was very little one could do to sugar coat the situation, though most any one facing the death of ALL their race would have done so.

I was fond of 'Cogenitor', when Trip liberates that poor girl and ends up screwing up pretty much everyone's day.

I can also agree with a story seeming forced. I didn't get that from this one, necessarily, though it did seem as though the decision was made rather far into the story. No forboding... I love to forbode.

I only got it in the last couple of chapters.  I wonder, actually, if the rest of the story's high quality made me notice it more.

Such as forboding to the pummeling I will give you saturday, dik! And if it don't happen then, just wait till the Thieves game! Rostovaunt Goustave has a nit to pick with ye...

He shouldn't.  Not Peter's fault that his hat is more stylish than his fellow Gothosian's.

[Governor Ronjar]

Funny, y'all wear the same damn clothes...

[Sethan]

I would have liked to have had the scene where things went out of control aboard the ship not take place "off camera," as it were. 

Whether that was a couple of lines explaining what happened as the antimatter cut loose, or Grunk realizing it wasn't going to work, but not having enough time to do anything about it, or someone on the bridge overriding the power drain from the transporters - just something that "finished" that part of the story, other than a bright flash seen from the ground.

Purely a stylistic comment, take it for what you will.

[KOTH-KieranXC, Ret.]

No, everyone in the STU isn't going to be the crew of the Enterprise, Hyperion, or Hiv'laposh.

I'm not sure how to take that, La'ra.

Pretty lofty company there, though, so I suppose I should be flattered.

[Governor Ronjar]

I would have liked to have had the scene where things went out of control aboard the ship not take place "off camera," as it were. 



Purely a stylistic comment, take it for what you will.

Agreed.

[Scottish Andy]

Hey all,

Wow, what a response! I'm thrilled an delighted, to say the least, that my story spawned so much discussion. Thanks to all who posted!

I'm glad that the majority still seem to think this is Trek. I never really thought about the whole Trek-specations and perceptions that go along with a Trek story, though I was playing on those perceptions to tell my tale. I just never thought that someone wouldn't consider my story Trek because I didn't follow the prescribed story formula. That way lies stagnation and the death of creativity. I always thought no major characters got snuffed because they'd raise a stink about loosing their contracts. And anyway, doesn't anyone remember 'STII:TWoK'? or 'TNG:Skin of Evil'?

I think changing the last chapter into at least 2 chapters would have been a better idea, as the story did end too abruptly. I should have changed the explosion in the sky into a cliffhanger, rather than being a page-break. In that respect, I'm unhappy with the ending.

I did, however, plan on the destruction of the ship from the start. As i said in my intro, this was based on the idea of Scotty working a miracle and pulling it off because he's Scotty. What if another engineer tried it and wasn't as good?
Guv, sorry about there being no forboding--about the ship, anyway--but that's the way I planned it. It was supposed to be a shocking, jarring realisation. I'm just thinking now that I gave it short shrift and I could have done--can do--better in rewrites.

Anyway, thanks again for all your comments. Pleases me no end. :-)

[Commander La'ra]

Thought about it for a few, and Sethan's on to something Andy.

Getting to see the crew realize what's about to happen and try to stop it, try to save the ship, might preserve that 'these are Starfleet officers' thing I was talking about right up until the ship goes boom.

Also, I think that for the 'shake up' you want to convey, having the Captain see the flash in the sky or something might be appropriate (or something in this vein).

[Governor Ronjar]

 I just never thought that someone wouldn't consider my story Trek because I didn't follow the prescribed story formula. That way lies stagnation and the death of creativity.

Indeed.

And as to the 'no-foreboding' thing, no apologies necessary. Most of my foreboding gets translated in my RPG's anyway. I too like the Ka-Blam affect of not warning the reader, but it has to be done carefully....

Anywho...good read!!!

--thu guv'!