Topic: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug  (Read 6353 times)

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Offline Braxton_RIP

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2005, 07:56:23 am »
Thinking back, it was the same mission where it has said host left twice.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2005, 08:16:54 am »
Thinking back, it was the same mission where it has said host left twice.

Thise missions are bugged and don't count.   Please only post if the bugs occur in a mission that loaded correctly.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2005, 09:09:48 am »
Since there never has been one reported instance of this bug in the stock mission packs, I was wondering if anyone has done a detailed map of their program structure to see what Taldren did to make them stable?

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2005, 09:14:00 am »
I notice it is damnably predictable with the host left message, whereas it was only hit or miss in the past with host left messages.

But!  I get fewer host left messages than I used to and I have *never* seen the bug happen without that message.

So all in all, great work!!!!!!   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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el-Karnak

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2005, 09:55:23 am »
I've done everything I can, but I still can't see the ION Storms in TG missions.  It does not make sense cuz I am using the same SFC.ini settings that were used successfully for EEK missions that also used ION storms but in a different manner.

I've been avoiding PvP matches until this issue was resolved. Have not done one PvP yet on AOTK2.

But, I aint waiting any longer . . .

So, if I'm in a PvP match and I can't see the ION storms then, AFAIC, the mission is bugged, so I'll prolly have to Alt-F4 out unless you tell me where the ION storm in the PvP match and my ship does not get creamed by it.  :o

Better yet, just don't draft me in a ION hex on the map, unless it's a NW mission eligible base/planet hex, and save us both a lot of grief.

Offline KBF-Kurok

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2005, 12:53:42 pm »
wel i didnt notice untill now  but Soth and I are fighting  Lyran and i noticed that the mighty ffg is firing 4 dizzies while it only has 2  showing on the ship in mission. No host left. Not that it is a big deal aginst these little ships but might be a problem with larger ones. Ill keep you posted.
Editing this to let you know that we were experincing  some lag so this might be the problem.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 02:48:40 pm by KBF-Kurok »

Offline Dizzy

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2005, 03:08:48 pm »
Look, the double fighter bug with Traceys missions happens roughly 50% of the time when you draft in Co-op and only Co-op and there is no host left msg.

When there is a host left, I'd say you almost always have double issues. That's not what we are talking about here. Host left are always bugged.

We are talking ONLY about Co-op missions folks. If you dont have a wing, the double fighter/weapon bug wont bite. If you fly with a wing, watch for double fighters and their frequency. Currently, the Hydrans are the only race that consistently have fighters on their ships. So only the kats or coalition will notice this. Otherwise in Co-op you'll have to ck for double shots.


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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2005, 07:09:28 pm »
I have yet to run into the double fighter bug.  I have seen double weapons bug on a few host left missions.

But I have experienced other issues... 4 OL'd fusions & 6 ph2's on range 0 alpha overrun blast thru a pink shield and does only FOUR internals?!?!?!??  This has happened several times.... very fustrating.

AI that seem to have a faster recharge rate than my ship does.

And hellbores that seem to be missing much more than then should be... I have had more than a few times when all 4 hb's in a volley missed from range 2 or less.

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Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2005, 06:20:16 am »
Since there never has been one reported instance of this bug in the stock mission packs, I was wondering if anyone has done a detailed map of their program structure to see what Taldren did to make them stable?

Yes, the stock missions neither seem to exhibit any dble ftr/weapons bugs (aside from host connection issues) nor do they contain any code that has been employed to resolve these bugs.

Why then do they work?? A good question.

Firstly, we need to know what actually causes the bug in the first place. Something we have always known since the very first host left message was discovered in online play, is that damage by weapons and loadouts are multiplied by the number of players in a dynaverse mission when there is a host left message and this is consistant for all missions ever made (stock and otherwise). The reason for this, as we now know, is that each player has their own version of the script running on each computer, but ceratin tasks are delegated only to the host computer, such as controlling AI. Now, what is supposed to happen, is that the host script overides the script for non-host players, thus we dont see each computer generating a set of AI for each player. However, if a non-host script detects that a host has dropped, a new host is allocated to the reamining players. When there is a connection and the script does not connect with the host, each script then becomes its own host, and thus it will run the mission as if it was the script. If we have 3 players in a mission, and they are all acting as hosts, then each script will fire the weapons of AI, launch fighters etc. so we get three sets of damage and fighters. In worse conditions, a computer acting as a host may have had such a lousy connection at the beginning of the mission that it did not recognise another human player as human, and so this script will also begin controlling the player ship as if it was AI. I'm sure we're all familiar with as well. This too happens in stock missions.

What we do not see in stock missions though, is when there is no host left message or connection issue, yet we still see this anomaly occurring where each player script is acting as a host, although we never see another script actually taking player ships as AI. This is significant. It means then that there must be some other mechanism at work associated with host scripts controlling AI and player ships.

The remedies that have been employed to fix this bug have met with limited success. Firesoul first found a possible solution by only allowing host scripts to register AI ships within a script. This appears to have worked well GSA, but not for the D2. Karnak then put foreward another solution, by removing all code that changed the states of AI Officers running in all scripts on the premise that doing so was in some way instogating non-host scripts to 'activate' their AI code. Again, this works in some cases, but not others.

In fact, both Firesoul and Karnak are both correct in their approaches, but the solution is not yet complete. So, I have combined both approaches building on this and extending it by further restricting all code associated with AI (ie. AI ship generation, all AI commands etc.) only to the host script. This appears to work, as has been reported maybe half of the time, but still is not a complete solution.

Now, interestingly enough, when these missions were first tested, this bug was not seen at all, and did not reappear until the ship AI generation method was changed in order to accomodate the time warping and AI ships being produced out of era. The first method used was, I believe, was the same that Karnak has used. On inspection of the API, it would also appear to be the method of choice, as we can specify the BPV, hull class ranges, and variant percentages of generated AI. This proved to work exactly as it should except for the one deal breaking issue that ships generated using this method ignore the YFA of the ship in question and interestingly enough do not use a metaverse id. These id is necessary to connect the ship in game with the id of the player ship in the server database and the API actually comments that only the method that does use this id is compatible with the metaverse. It should also be noted that in the stock scripts, the non metaverse id methods were actually used and then later commented out (deleted) in favour of the metaverse id version.

The metaverse id version, however, only takes parameters from the server database (or single player database) to create player ships. If the ship being created does not belong to a human player, the function appears to create an AI ship but there are no parameters whatsoever over what ship is actially made. Instead, in the mission script calss, another function is used to set BPV strengths of AI teams which previously appeared not to work, but is now known to work only when with metaverse id version method. This is exactly how the stock scripts work and I switched to this method in order to overcome the timewarp issue.

Unfortunately, using this method presents severe problems when trying to remove AI ships in PvP.AI ships are now being created at the exact same moment as player ships. We do not know if a ship is human controlled or AI controlled until after it is created. Teams are setup in a particular order though, with the host team taking the first slot. Since the host generates AI ships, and it is the first team to be created, it cannot yet evaluate the status of subsequent ships yet to be created, and thus cannot know if there are human opponents at the time of AI ship creation. A possible solution to this might just be to re-evaluate AI ships, say, 5 seconds after the mission begins, and destroy them if human opponents are present (but this is not an ideal solution). Another possibility on my list of experiments is to create the host team last (but may have unknown effects in mission).

In conclusion then, there is still something else hapenning in these scripts that the stock scripts do not do that is causing non-host scripts to 'activate' their AI code. These scripts are more complicated and do employ far more API methods than the stock scripts do which perhaps were never tested with the API under these circumstances. If we had the source code to the client API, the problem could be fixed yesterday. Rather, the world of scripting is more like conducting tests on a black box to see what happens without the code. The API does contain many known bugs which have since been documented and easily fixed if the code was available (my list of API bugs seems to grow with each mission written).

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Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2005, 06:31:59 am »
I've done everything I can, but I still can't see the ION Storms in TG missions.  It does not make sense cuz I am using the same SFC.ini settings that were used successfully for EEK missions that also used ION storms but in a different manner.

I've been avoiding PvP matches until this issue was resolved. Have not done one PvP yet on AOTK2.

But, I aint waiting any longer . . .

So, if I'm in a PvP match and I can't see the ION storms then, AFAIC, the mission is bugged, so I'll prolly have to Alt-F4 out unless you tell me where the ION storm in the PvP match and my ship does not get creamed by it.  :o

Better yet, just don't draft me in a ION hex on the map, unless it's a NW mission eligible base/planet hex, and save us both a lot of grief.

The ion storms in these missions are not created as map objects but simply reside as part of the map being selected for that terrain type. That is the only code employed to add ion storms to these missions, which is the same fashion for which asteroids, suns, dustclouds, nebulas, etc. also appear in mission. If ion storms are appearing in other missions though, then this discounts an issue with the texture file for ion storms which is the first place to look for a problem. While I do not think that the SFC.ini settings should have any effect on the appearance of ion storms in game, to test that hypothesis, try using a set of settings from another player who sees the ion storms (or the stock settings) to see what effect it has. If there is no effect, that is you still do not see ion storms, then we can conclude that the ini settings are not the issue and that the problem exists elsewhere in your system. Trial and error.
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Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2005, 06:35:43 am »
Look, the double fighter bug with Traceys missions happens roughly 50% of the time when you draft in Co-op and only Co-op and there is no host left msg.

When there is a host left, I'd say you almost always have double issues. That's not what we are talking about here. Host left are always bugged.

We are talking ONLY about Co-op missions folks. If you dont have a wing, the double fighter/weapon bug wont bite. If you fly with a wing, watch for double fighters and their frequency. Currently, the Hydrans are the only race that consistently have fighters on their ships. So only the kats or coalition will notice this. Otherwise in Co-op you'll have to ck for double shots.



Dizzy is correct, however the bug can appear whenever there is more than one human player including an enemy player in addition to coop.
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el-Karnak

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2005, 09:59:15 am »
Was running a simple PvE mission against Hydrans with my I-CCY. No Host Left or anything untowards.  My BCH shot out dbl-plasma S torps. Hydran LM go BOOM!! real quick.

You definitely have some work left to do in cleaning out dbl-fire bugs.  Haven't seen any dbl-fighter bug, but my router ports are giving me fits so I can't tell. Only player that I can co-op with so far is Freedom

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2005, 11:30:20 am »
I se the double-shot on occaison still, it seems to only happen when the host is on Dial-up.   
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Offline KBFLordKrueg

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2005, 03:03:43 pm »
I se the double-shot on occaison still, it seems to only happen when the host is on Dial-up.   

Not really, ran several missions last night with different wings, all players involved were on DSL or cable, had double shot plasmas and photons.
Wew tried different areas of space, different hosts, everything.
In every case we still got double shot AI... :-\
In a few we had 3 of us and saw TRIPLE shot plasmas (didn't try it in area where Fed AI was present...
It's really becoming quite irritating when a ship with 2 Plasma launchers shoots 4-6 plasmas at you and THEY'RE ALL REAL!!
I really do appreciate all the work put into the new scripts, but, THAT DOUBLE SHOT CRAP HAS GOT TO GO!!
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el-Karnak

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2005, 04:05:33 pm »
Yep, if you're in a PvP missions and the AI stripping does not work, so the AIs are there and then the AIs double-shot.  That mucho bad . . .

Bye, bye PvP game; may as well Alt-out.

Offline KBFLordKrueg

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2005, 04:50:30 pm »
Yep, if you're in a PvP missions and the AI stripping does not work, so the AIs are there and then the AIs double-shot.  That mucho bad . . .

Bye, bye PvP game; may as well Alt-out.

None of the mentioned missions had enemy players, only allied players vs the AI...
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2005, 05:40:35 pm »
Yep, if you're in a PvP missions and the AI stripping does not work, so the AIs are there and then the AIs double-shot.  That mucho bad . . .

Bye, bye PvP game; may as well Alt-out.

None of the mentioned missions had enemy players, only allied players vs the AI...

I had one PvP Double-shot, but I had only seen that happen once in PvP, not in the other PvP encounters with AI.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2005, 09:43:41 am »

In conclusion then, there is still something else hapenning in these scripts that the stock scripts do not do that is causing non-host scripts to 'activate' their AI code. These scripts are more complicated and do employ far more API methods than the stock scripts do which perhaps were never tested with the API under these circumstances. If we had the source code to the client API, the problem could be fixed yesterday. Rather, the world of scripting is more like conducting tests on a black box to see what happens without the code. The API does contain many known bugs which have since been documented and easily fixed if the code was available (my list of API bugs seems to grow with each mission written).




Thank you. that was informative (the entire thing, not just the quote).


If what you say here is true then there might be a  possible work-around. We don't have the API source code but we do have the server kit code. If the only way at present to make the missions stable is to give the script free rein to time warp then let it and control ship selection through the server side shiplist. If a program could be written into the server code that takes a shiplist where most of the ships are listed as R (restricted) until they are scheduled to appear in the timeline when the program would update the list and make them available each game year that passed by, changing their Special Role designation from R to whatever it is supposed to be. My understanding is that these types of changes have no effect on the playerside list (that would be normal in the fact that all ships would have their regular Special Role rating from the start) and that not even the broken API can call up a Restricted ship out of the ether. I suppose you could even write the program to R out all the ships in the submitted list and just have it update all available ships at server start so the the admin wouldn't have to go through and do the selections manually.


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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2005, 09:54:55 am »

In conclusion then, there is still something else hapenning in these scripts that the stock scripts do not do that is causing non-host scripts to 'activate' their AI code. These scripts are more complicated and do employ far more API methods than the stock scripts do which perhaps were never tested with the API under these circumstances. If we had the source code to the client API, the problem could be fixed yesterday. Rather, the world of scripting is more like conducting tests on a black box to see what happens without the code. The API does contain many known bugs which have since been documented and easily fixed if the code was available (my list of API bugs seems to grow with each mission written).



Thank you. that was informative (the entire thing, not just the quote).


If what you say here is true then there might be a  possible work-around. We don't have the API source code but we do have the server kit code. If the only way at present to make the missions stable is to give the script free rein to time warp then let it and control ship selection through the server side shiplist. If a program could be written into the server code that takes a shiplist where most of the ships are listed as R (restricted) until they are scheduled to appear in the timeline when the program would update the list and make them available each game year that passed by, changing their Special Role designation from R to whatever it is supposed to be. My understanding is that these types of changes have no effect on the playerside list (that would be normal in the fact that all ships would have their regular Special Role rating from the start) and that not even the broken API can call up a Restricted ship out of the ether. I suppose you could even write the program to R out all the ships in the submitted list and just have it update all available ships at server start so the the admin wouldn't have to go through and do the selections manually.



EEK scripts have been built to do this since SS2.  I did put in MagnumMan's shiplist API in some prototype missions in early 2004, but since I could never get the stardate off the dyna, the ops. was rendered moot.  For the lay people, MagnumMan's shiplist API is a C++ library that he wrote which basically accesses almost every field in shiplist.txt.  I've tested it a lot and found a couple bugs, but I can fix those NP.  What's been missing in 2004 is a server admin. willing to do the shiplist.txt changes on periodic basis.  Then SWG came around and I lot interest in the OP game . . .

As for the mission script development issues.  I see a lot of mission scripters just trying any old API call without testing it out enough first. Then it all comes out in the wash on the dyna.  When I worked on EEK missions, I used the standard Spiral SDLC S/W model where you open up a few features at a time, test them out on the prod. dyna, then moved on from there. Ya don't unleash the whole API, that is known to be incomplete and somewhat buggy, in a new mission pack and hope that it all works. That's not realistic coding and certainly does not work in the real world of commercial software development. You would have no customer confidence left after the first couple of gold releases. Of course, this is gaming software where the quality standards are somewhat lower that what is expected in other industries.  The world won't exactly end if the mission script on the dyna is buggy. ;D

Anyway, back to the issue at hand. Anyone that bothers to to read the Admin. section of the README file that comes with every EEK mission pack would see that you can simply set the unwanted ship as SPECIAL class and it will never show up in an EEK mission as AI, PERIOD.  This feature has been in since post-SS2, almost 2 years ago. Also, in SS2 there were some serverlist changes for G-BCS and L-BCHT and they showed up in the EEK AI used on that dyna, so EEK missions always read AI of the dyna server shiplist.

 Now, I have irrefutable evidence that nobody bothers to read my README.txt files, hehe ::)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 10:20:25 am by el-Karnak »

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Please report any instance og the Double Fighter/weapon bug
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2005, 04:11:58 pm »
That's all well and good Karnak, but it does nothing about ships that we want in there showing up 20 years early.