Topic: Hot Coffee Mod/censorship.... its longterm effects

[Reverend]

Lovely, lovely. Apparently for the PC version of 'Grand Theft Auto; San Andreas', there was a mod released called 'hot coffee'... a mod that apparently advances the dating aspect to a sexual aspect... including simulation of sex and wanton nudity. I would have posted links, but as I sought through search engines, there was a whole page...
Anyhow, this one in particular caught my eye and got me thinking http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6615.cfm and
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6638.cfm

Now... as a semi-successful modder of several games, thanks to all "Tandrenites", of which I got my modding start and general PC usage education with, this worries me a great deal. As a parent, I suppose my views over such a mod are of some consequence; more immediately and selfishly, I worry over how the political figureheads are going to pressure and manipulate the sheep herd known as society and our fine game companies.  I do recall this game being initially rated as 'Mature', which tells me I cannot let my 6-year-old play it. Now not only are they forcing the company to reschedule it as 'Adults Only', which.. tells me.. the same thing. They are also shooing them to release a patch which bans further mods. It also states that they are looking into the responsibility of the companies/individuals who made the tools available to do such a atrocity as add more naked mayhem to a basically XXX game.

How long will it be that we will no long have tools made available to us on a case-by-case basis to allow us to modify for personal usage a product we have purchased, and will not be selling or retailing or marketing, as per our EULA agreement?
There is a great majority of Republicans, 'right-wingers' here... is this what we are getting reduced to? Is this what we wanted? State-mandated entertainment?
Despite my living and legal arrangements, I have never, nor shall ever need, a pornographic product to soothe myself with, and I am very thankful I can say that with limited honesty... yet, should I have ran across that, and I possess the game, would I have downloaded it? Heh, what the heck.... just run it when the child is not around, get a couple of foolish belly laughs out of it, and be done, finite- which is I imagine the intention of the mod creator, as well as the game designers/developers. I thought this was understood, and this relates all back to several political power/ sociological tactics, which I won't dictate.

Should I start stockpiling all modding tools I run across (not that I don't already), for fear that next year it will be illegal? What are the implications of this that I am not seeing? Do any of you foresee this as a noisy wind to be ignored, or a warning of more stupid changes to come? A lot of you are older and more experienced than I, and I wrote this to ask the rest of you who catch this these questions...


(edited- changed title and laughing-stock typos)

[Mr_Tricorder]

I don't think modders are in any danger of losing access to tools or the privilege to mod because of this.  From what I understand, the pornographic minigame was already in the game and the mod simply unlocked it.  It was discovered in the PS2 version also, and since you cannot alter the code on a PS2 disc, it must have been in the original code.

[Rod ONeal]

I don't think modders are in any danger of losing access to tools or the privilege to mod because of this.  From what I understand, the pornographic minigame was already in the game and the mod simply unlocked it.  It was discovered in the PS2 version also, and since you cannot alter the code on a PS2 disc, it must have been in the original code.

It's nice to see that the developers put the stuff in the game. I'd hate to see developers being sued/repremanded for stuff fans do to their games if they had nothing to do with it.

Don't be so sure about the safety of modding. If a group gets to lobbying against it and nobody stands up to them, they'll get their way. That's the way our political system seems to work.

Personally, I think that the game targets the lowest denominator in our society. With that said, I'd never try and get it banned. I just wouldn't buy it.

[E_Look]

I am not a member of the Republican party nor do I really consider myself a "right winger" even if other potentially might do so.  We apparently are not "reduced" to anything.  The outrage and outcry over smut and over-the-top in violence and obscene behavior games is completely proper.  As a parent myself I am glad to see that our society still cares about morals and social norms.  Yes, maybe one or two mature men out of ten million people (that's like twenty to forty guys) might just look at it once, yuk it up and forget it, but all the others, especially the teenagers, would react differently, out of sheer prurient interest.

There is a small probability of legislation passed to effectively ban all modding... very small.  But see, the makers of that game ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE.  If they cared about the status of moddability, they would not knowingly include what they also knew to be offensive material in a game, which was already deemed over the border between good taste and offensiveness.  Why blame the more conservative majority of American society?  It is the producer of known to be offensive material that is at fault.

If those who push the limits of our freedoms, and precious these freedoms are to us all, really cared about protecting our freedom and if they were smart, they would not do those things that would cause curtailment of these freedoms.  But I don't think they are stupid at all.  I leave it to you to consider what is it that they really want.  I'll say this much- what these "exercisers of freedom" want is not good for the rest of us and inimical to a climate in which freedom can thrive.

[Sirgod]

Heya Reverand , Long time no see. BTW Did I tell you my sister is pregnant again?

Anywho back on topic. I don't particularly care for those kinds of games. But I don't see what the problem is. If adults want to play them, let them play what they want. Up and untill they start Killing hookers, and stealing cars.

As for the right wing thingie, It was actually Hillary Clinton who brought alot of this up in the Senate. http://www.torontofreepress.com/2005/cover072705.htm

  Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton brought the scandal to the world’s attention on a Friday, and by the following Wednesday the ESRB had slapped an "Adults Only" rating on it, prompting retailers across the U.S. to pull the game from store shelves.

"But there is more, and this is worse," says Thompson. "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise, which is the most popular and successful game in history, contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises labia and pubic hair. The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called "the blur" which obscures the genital areas.

"In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the fame and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet.

"In fact, one of the most popular sites providing the code to remove the "genitalia blur" is none other than www.about.com, owned and operated exclusively by the New York Times.

"Full frontal nudity of the Sims children can be unlocked as well (as) reported on gaming sites, much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse. Not surprisingly, adult porn sites are also featuring the easy-to-use code to remove the blur, catering to their consumers of adult and child pornography."

"What makes this worse than the GTA: SanAndreas "Hot Coffee" scandal," says Thompson, "is that Sims 2 is rated "T" for teens by the ESRB, which means there have been absolutely no age restrictions at the point of sale of this game.

Personaly which ever side done this, It's a slap in the face to current laws.

Stephen

[dragoon]

I find the whole thing interesting. In the UK GTA San Andreas has an '18' rating, which is the highest you can get here. Below the 18 is 15 and then there's one which recommends parental guidance and another which is classed as safe.

From what I get of the US the GTASA was marked for 17yr olds, but has now gone up to 18? If this is the case, why bother, because half of those 17yr olds that got the game are likely to be 18 now. Yes there are new customers, but when they release the new version without this code...will it drop back to 17?

It may seem biased but the UK system seems to be better, but then we don't have companies refusing to sell 18 games...

[Bonk]

Grand Theft Auto has had pornographic "easter eggs" for the last few (all?) versions... people are only cluing in now. 

SFC has never had pornographic "easter eggs" and never will.

I'm confident that serious gaming will be unaffected.

[Sirgod]

Grand Theft Auto has had pornographic "easter eggs" for the last few (all?) versions... people are only cluing in now. 

SFC has never had pornographic "easter eggs" and never will.

I'm confident that serious gaming will be unaffected.

That's a dig at my source code isn't It. admit It,bonk, that was a dig. 

Stephen

[Iceman]

Just to clarify a technicality, the government can't force the ESRB or Rockstar North to change the rating. That's a voluntary move. The ESRB rating system is a voluntary thing done by the industry.

Just an FYI.

[Bonk]

Uh, I'm such a "straight man" I dont get it...  ???  Nope, no dig.  (Good point about the Sims though...)

Mainly just wanted to mention that it has been present in GTA since version II as far as I know.

... I don't particularly care for those kinds of games. But I don't see what the problem is. If adults want to play them, let them play what they want. Up and untill they start Killing hookers, and stealing cars.

Uh, that's pretty much what Grand Theft Auto (GTA) is all about. Ever see the "Carmageddon" series of games? (I'm a bit ashamed to know this stuff... but I watch the industry closely...)

[Rat Boy]

The 'Hot Coffee' situation should not affect legitimate modders, despite Rockstar's lying to divert attention from them.  THEY are the ones responsible for the content being in the game, since they were the ones who left it on the disc.

[Iceman]

Uh, I'm such a "straight man" I dont get it...  ???  Nope, no dig.  (Good point about the Sims though...)

Mainly just wanted to mention that it has been present in GTA since version II as far as I know.

GTAII wasn't 3d. It didn't quite work in the same manner.

[Mr_Tricorder]

I find the whole thing interesting. In the UK GTA San Andreas has an '18' rating, which is the highest you can get here. Below the 18 is 15 and then there's one which recommends parental guidance and another which is classed as safe.

From what I get of the US the GTASA was marked for 17yr olds, but has now gone up to 18? If this is the case, why bother, because half of those 17yr olds that got the game are likely to be 18 now. Yes there are new customers, but when they release the new version without this code...will it drop back to 17?

It may seem biased but the UK system seems to be better, but then we don't have companies refusing to sell 18 games...

Changing the rating from M (17+) to AO (18+) has a much greater affect than just excluding 17 year olds from buying the game.  Most major retail stores will not carry games rated AO by ESRB.  For example, Wal-Mart, Target, and Best Buy are pulling it from their shelves and will not likely be selling the current version ever again now that the rating has been changed.  As far as these stores are concerned, a game rated M is like an R rated movie (which is acceptable), but a game rated AO is like an X rated movie (which is not acceptable).

[Iceman]

Right. All that means is that EB and Babbages are gonna do more business. I don't see this hurting Rockstar much, if at all.

[Commander La'ra]

Guess what game has been flying off the shelves of EB ever since this all came out?

There is no such thing as bad publicity...