Topic: Can I ask J'inn and the other RMs to consider this

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Altering the Disengagement rule so that line ships will only suffer 1/2 the penalties.

This would reward those who were not flying specialty ships. 

One of the main concernes as far as the disengagement rule has always been "hex-flipping" but line ships are not generally considered hex-flippers.

I think we should consider halving the time for them.

Any drone variant, commando variant, carrier (might need a little clarification for the Hydrans here as all their ships have ftrs), fast cruiser, scout, and escort would be excluded.

We might even consider the heavy units ruled by OOB to be excluded from this bonus as well.  I'm cool either way on that.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I like it.  I'd like for command variants to be excluded as well  (meaning they keep the full disengagement penalty.)

But I suspect -- if they go for this -- they will go with only those ships who already have been given a suffix in the shiplist being the exceptions.  Less work that way.

-S'Cipio

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Not a bad idea Scippy, but I think it better to start with the basic concept, the command variants could be considered for exclusion for a later run if it proved to be a hit. 

[Kroma BaSyl]

I would agree to this type of change, if it was limited to "line" ships only. Any specialty, command, or OOB ship that is killed or disengages suffers the full penalty. The line ships only half.

However, it hardly seems necessary, and I still don't understand the fuss of a few pilots over being banned form the single hex for the current length of time, as the map is big and there are plenty of other hexes to hit. Heck it is a 3-way server and thus 2 whole fronts worth of hexs to attack. The only rational I see for it is to allow for the cheese hex-flipping tactics where avoidance of PvP can win the hex. It makes it pointless to bother defending a hex without a disengagement rule, unless you resort to similar PvP avoidance tactics.

[KAT J'inn]

Not a bad idea.   Best saved for the next server though.  DH has worked his butt off and I don't want to see him have to make a renaming change to the ship list at this point.

[Matsukasi]

The only rational I see for it is to allow for the cheese hex-flipping tactics where avoidance of PvP can win the hex. It makes it pointless to bother defending a hex without a disengagement rule, unless you resort to similar PvP avoidance tactics.

 
I'm tired of biting my tongue. I am tired of seeing this issue misrepresented as some attempt to return to glory the DF+ AI slaughter tactic. I don't even FLY drone ships. Hell, I haven't flown Kzinti even for at least 2 years. This rule pissed me off when I was a Lyran for cripes sake. Are you gonna tell me that I was trying to ESG my way to victory now? Gimme a friggin break.

My beef with this rule is the uncontested allowance of multiple goddamn capital ships to bully their way across the universe, especially given the NOTORIOUS connection issues that some pilots have. It makes it nigh impossible to counter effectively. It's complete horsesh*t to ban me from a hex for ANY amount of time if I'm left alone in a mission vesus 2, hell who am I kidding 3 capital ships when my wingman goes ' poof ' right at the start.

Make a rule forcing those damn capital ships to not fleet together and I'll shut up with UNGODLY glee about disengagement rules.

Until then, stop pigeonholing those of us who think this rule stinks on ice.

/rant


I feel better now

[Mog]

I tend to agree with Mat.

[FPF-DieHard]

My beef with this rule is the uncontested allowance of multiple goddamn capital ships to bully their way across the universe, especially given the NOTORIOUS connection issues that some pilots have. It makes it nigh impossible to counter effectively. It's complete horsesh*t to ban me from a hex for ANY amount of time if I'm left alone in a mission vesus 2, hell who am I kidding 3 capital ships when my wingman goes ' poof ' right at the start.

um, we did make a rules stating that capital ships can't fly together.   Was that removed?

[Matsukasi]

um, we did make a rules stating that capital ships can't fly together.   Was that removed?

I don't see it listed anywhere. Certainly not in the AOTK II rules sticky.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

The last few servers have had the rule preventing carriers and DNs from fleeting, but that's all that I am aware of.

[GDA-Agave]

I agree with you Matt.  

All OOB limited capital ships should not be allowed to fly together.   I think that it was mentioned somewhere in the AOTK2 rules thread.   It should definitely be added.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I agree with you Matt.   

All OOB limited capital ships should not be allowed to fly together.   I think that it was mentioned somewhere in the AOTK2 rules thread.   It should definitely be added.

Agreed, if this rule isn't in it was an oversight. All OOB ships should be banned from flying together.

And Mat whether or not the push to scrape the Disengagement rule was an attempt to return to the glory days of DF+ AI slaughter tactic (which BTW several people have in the past explicitly stated that was their intent with oppossing it, not you per se, but others), without the disengagment rule that is exactly what we would get.

[KAT J'inn]

My beef with this rule is the uncontested allowance of multiple goddamn capital ships to bully their way across the universe, especially given the NOTORIOUS connection issues that some pilots have. It makes it nigh impossible to counter effectively. It's complete horsesh*t to ban me from a hex for ANY amount of time if I'm left alone in a mission vesus 2, hell who am I kidding 3 capital ships when my wingman goes ' poof ' right at the start.

um, we did make a rules stating that capital ships can't fly together.   Was that removed?

WHOOPS!!!   J'inn made a boo boo.   Will fix.

[KAT J'inn]

DH  I'll leave it up to you about Chuut idea.   The idea is good, but the time to change the shiplist to mark the ships is a concern.


As for the Disengaement Rule . . ..  if the problem was the droners . . . . and I think it was . . .  wouldn't it be a little more direct to simply limit drone boats and or remove them completely.    They are supposed to be rare. And there is no doubt they were being overused by all.

[CaptJosh]

  Who'd have thunk it? A lawyer using the KISS principle.

[FPF-DieHard]

DH  I'll leave it up to you about Chuut idea.   The idea is good, but the time to change the shiplist to mark the ships is a concern.


As for the Disengaement Rule . . ..  if the problem was the droners . . . . and I think it was . . .  wouldn't it be a little more direct to simply limit drone boats and or remove them completely.    They are supposed to be rare. And there is no doubt they were being overused by all.

What exactley would I need to do, mark all line ships with a small "v" for vanilla?  F-vCAR+ for example?  Thats doable as long as I have carte blanch over what is vannilla.  

I still think this isn't right if the ISC is in the equation as their "line" ships can only be beaten with command and specialty ships (unless pilot skill is greatly mismatched).   Maybe we should hold this off until "Federation & Empire" where the tradional allies are more balanced.

Leave the drone ships in.   If for no other reason, we have a lot of new/returning players who may need the training wheels.

[Kroma BaSyl]

It is all hex-flipping ships, and the desire to make PvP mean something. People act like hex-flipping has been totally nerfed by the disengagement rule when all that has happened is that some balance has been restored to PvP ships. Hex-flipping still has it's uses and last I checked the map had more than one hex on it.

[Braxton_RIP]

DH  I'll leave it up to you about Chuut idea.   The idea is good, but the time to change the shiplist to mark the ships is a concern.


As for the Disengaement Rule . . ..  if the problem was the droners . . . . and I think it was . . .  wouldn't it be a little more direct to simply limit drone boats and or remove them completely.    They are supposed to be rare. And there is no doubt they were being overused by all.

What exactley would I need to do, mark all line ships with a small "v" for vanilla?  F-vCAR+ for example?  Thats doable as long as I have carte blanch over what is vannilla.  

I still think this isn't right if the ISC is in the equation as their "line" ships can only be beaten with command and specialty ships (unless pilot skill is greatly mismatched).   Maybe we should hold this off until "Federation & Empire" where the tradional allies are more balanced.

Leave the drone ships in.   If for no other reason, we have a lot of new/returning players who may need the training wheels.

Isn't that the point of the ISC though? Superior technological advancement to the other races?

I don't mind the alteration, btw.

Also wanted to say, don't you think if your a captain and you loose a Capital ship, that your race's government is going to laugh at you when you ask to be deployed again with the same thing in the same place?

[Mog]

Depending on who you're fighting I'd say it's more amazing you are still alive to command another ship.

[FPF-DieHard]

Also wanted to say, don't you think if your a captain and you loose a Capital ship, that your race's government is going to laugh at you when you ask to be deployed again with the same thing in the same place?

[FPF-DieHard]

Also wanted to say, don't you think if your a captain and you loose a Capital ship, that your race's government is going to laugh at you when you ask to be deployed again with the same thing in the same place?

not if you name is fluf  

[Matsukasi]

Also wanted to say, don't you think if your a captain and you loose a Capital ship, that your race's government is going to laugh at you when you ask to be deployed again with the same thing in the same place?

not if you name is fluf  

< chuckle >

WORD!

[FPF-DieHard]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

[KAT J'inn]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

[FPF-DieHard]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

[Braxton_RIP]

F-cCAR+,

  As long as you don't make the same typos in the shiplist, the world will be a better place  

[762_XC]

Enforcement of the no-capital ship fleeting rule has always been a concern to me.

Suggestion: Allow them to fleet, but exempt whomever they draft from the disengagment rule.

This is enough to discourage them from fleeting, but not too severe a penalty if one accidently drafts another.

[SkyFlyer]

Enforcement of the no-capital ship fleeting rule has always been a concern to me.

Suggestion: Allow them to fleet, but exempt whomever they draft from the disengagment rule.

This is enough to discourage them from fleeting, but not too severe a penalty if one accidently drafts another.

I like that.

[Green]

I'm tired of biting my tongue. I am tired of seeing this issue misrepresented as some attempt to return to glory the DF+ AI slaughter tactic. I don't even FLY drone ships. Hell, I haven't flown Kzinti even for at least 2 years. This rule pissed me off when I was a Lyran for cripes sake. Are you gonna tell me that I was trying to ESG my way to victory now? Gimme a friggin break.

My beef with this rule is the uncontested allowance of multiple goddamn capital ships to bully their way across the universe, especially given the NOTORIOUS connection issues that some pilots have. It makes it nigh impossible to counter effectively. It's complete horsesh*t to ban me from a hex for ANY amount of time if I'm left alone in a mission vesus 2, hell who am I kidding 3 capital ships when my wingman goes ' poof ' right at the start.

Make a rule forcing those damn capital ships to not fleet together and I'll shut up with UNGODLY glee about disengagement rules.

Until then, stop pigeonholing those of us who think this rule stinks on ice.

/rant
I feel better now

Okay, grumpy old man

[Julin Eurthyr]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

[Julin Eurthyr]

For the record, we're looking, right now, at maybe a handful of pilots flying "dedicated" ISC, I wouldn't worry about the fleet romping all over the server...

[Mr.Bad151]

I might be wrong.. but the Gorn don't have any "vanillia" CA's over 180.  Only thing the Gorn have over 180 would be BCH, carriers, or casual PFTs.. none of which would be considered vanillia.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

I think this is fair.  Otherwise you are discriminating by race.

[RFA-Wraith]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Nice to know this a couple days before server starts...

[Kroma BaSyl]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Nice to know this a couple days before server starts...

You mean as opposed to a couple days after?

[Kroma BaSyl]

I might be wrong.. but the Gorn don't have any "vanillia" CA's over 180.  Only thing the Gorn have over 180 would be BCH, carriers, or casual PFTs.. none of which would be considered vanillia.

Just the CCH at 173

[Hexx]

Yeah I'd have to say the CAZ should be considered a CC, but the CA/CAW/CAY
should be line
They have plasma, they suck
CAZ should be a CC of course due to those &@^!%@*@!(!  I torps.

[FPF-DieHard]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

This is not open to debate, not trying to be rude, simply don't have time to do things by committee.

[el-Karnak]

For the record, we're looking, right now, at maybe a handful of pilots flying "dedicated" ISC, I wouldn't worry about the fleet romping all over the server...

Yep.  Dizzy and Hexx on the same side as the ISC, so you don't have to worry about Karnak totally massacring them on a daily basis.  There is the Agave issue though. I guess, y'all will just have to suck it up there.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

This is not open to debate, not trying to be rude, simply don't have time to do things by committee.

The NHK and RHK are command variants anyway Julin so are thus excluded from any shorter disengagement times as well, same for all the CCHs, Kzin, Gorn, the Fed CB etc.

[el-Karnak]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

I think this is fair.  Otherwise you are discriminating by race.

What he said.

[KAT J'inn]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

This is not open to debate, not trying to be rude, simply don't have time to do things by committee.

Seriously.  This one was supposed to be rules-lite.  That will yield some imperfections (assuming that perfection is even possible).

Don't worry.   We'll do our best to screw every race one way or another. 

[FPF-DieHard]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

This is not open to debate, not trying to be rude, simply don't have time to do things by committee.

The NHK and RHK are command variants anyway Julin so are thus excluded from any shorter disengagement times as well, same for all the CCHs, Kzin, Gorn, the Fed CB etc.

That is pretty much my point.  The command cruiser do not get this excemption and the I-CA series are better than the CCs of the rest of the races.. 

Let's be honest, everyone is going to fly a Command/Specialty ship anyway.

PS:   The F-CS/CS+ did not get a "v" either as though it is not a command or specialty ship for the same reason.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

This is not open to debate, not trying to be rude, simply don't have time to do things by committee.

The NHK and RHK are command variants anyway Julin so are thus excluded from any shorter disengagement times as well, same for all the CCHs, Kzin, Gorn, the Fed CB etc.

That is pretty much my point.  The command cruiser do not get this excemption.  What is the Command ratting on a I-CA?  (will edit post after I check)

Let's be honest, everyone is going to fly a Command/Specialty ship anyway.

PS:   The F-CS/CS+ did not get a "v" either as though it is not a command or specialty ship.

I agree totally, everyone will be in a command or specialy ship pretty much, but it does allow for some slack to those pilots who lose their ship and haven't got a replacement yet so they can hit the next hex.

[FPF-DieHard]

J'inn, need feedback.   I can do this if you want, just say the word.

It seems like everyone would be cool with it.   I just don't want to stick you with anymore work, esp., since I haven't done a damn thing. 

If you have the time, and you think it's a good idea,  go ahead an implement it.   You have Carte Blanche on the details. 

Let me know the results so I can change the rules.

I'm going to consider the I-CA/CAW/CAY/CAZ a command ship.   Flame away 

all "Vannila" ship (non-command, non-specialty) will be flagged with a "v".  Examples: F-cCAR+, K-vD5K, R-vWE, I-vCLY

Rommie Heavy Hawks (all FHx, NHx, etc. etc.) and Gorn 180+ BPV CAs should get the same treatment then...

It should work that way... I can see the I-CAZ maybe getting that treatment, the rest of them are close enough to the "stock" CAs that they should either be unrestricted CAs or all ships in the BPV range of the I-CA line should be restricted...

This is not open to debate, not trying to be rude, simply don't have time to do things by committee.

The NHK and RHK are command variants anyway Julin so are thus excluded from any shorter disengagement times as well, same for all the CCHs, Kzin, Gorn, the Fed CB etc.

That is pretty much my point.  The command cruiser do not get this excemption.  What is the Command ratting on a I-CA?  (will edit post after I check)

Let's be honest, everyone is going to fly a Command/Specialty ship anyway.

PS:   The F-CS/CS+ did not get a "v" either as though it is not a command or specialty ship.

I agree totally, everyone will be in a command or specialy ship pretty much, but it does allow for some slack to those pilots who lose their ship and haven't got a replacement yet so they can hit the next hex.

And it will encourage suicide flying in an NCL/CW/CLY/D5K as it is cheap to replace and you can jump back in the hex after 20 minutes (or whatever half the Death penalty is).

[Braxton_RIP]

Why fly a cheap replaceable Fed ship, when I can get a nice F-CVS+ and have someone bring along an even nicer little F-NAE, maybe throw a G-BF into the mix.  You can run missions so damn fast with that combo.

[FPF-DieHard]

Why fly a cheap replaceable Fed ship, when I can get a nice F-CVS+ and have someone bring along an even nicer little F-NAE, maybe throw a G-BF into the mix.  You can run missions so damn fast with that combo.

Back to my point, I still don't think many will fly the line ships even with this rule.

[Braxton_RIP]

Why fly a cheap replaceable Fed ship, when I can get a nice F-CVS+ and have someone bring along an even nicer little F-NAE, maybe throw a G-BF into the mix.  You can run missions so damn fast with that combo.

Back to my point, I still don't think many will fly the line ships even with this rule.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the very nice thing about not having ship restrictions is you can build things like carrier groups, and personally, I think the people who go farther on this server will be the ones who take the most advantage of it.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Why fly a cheap replaceable Fed ship, when I can get a nice F-CVS+ and have someone bring along an even nicer little F-NAE, maybe throw a G-BF into the mix.  You can run missions so damn fast with that combo.

Back to my point, I still don't think many will fly the line ships even with this rule.

Except perhaps a few of us on a lark, just for the hell of it  .

Oh DH got one thing for you to consider on this, what about the Heavy war destroyers?  While technically vanilla I'm not sure that they should get any shorter penalty.  The Kzin ones can be pretty mean hex flippers with six drone racks and all of them have fighters.  I'd recommend considering all the HDWs to be specialty ships in keeping in the spirit of the issue.

[FPF-DieHard]

Why fly a cheap replaceable Fed ship, when I can get a nice F-CVS+ and have someone bring along an even nicer little F-NAE, maybe throw a G-BF into the mix.  You can run missions so damn fast with that combo.

Back to my point, I still don't think many will fly the line ships even with this rule.

Except perhaps a few of us on a lark, just for the hell of it  .

Oh DH got one thing for you to consider on this, what about the Heavy war destroyers?  While technically vanilla I'm not sure that they should get any shorter penalty.  The Kzin ones can be pretty mean hex flippers with six drone racks and all of them have fighters.  I'd recommend considering all the HDWs to be specialty ships in keeping in the spirit of the issue.

I did. HDWs did not get the "v"

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Why fly a cheap replaceable Fed ship, when I can get a nice F-CVS+ and have someone bring along an even nicer little F-NAE, maybe throw a G-BF into the mix.  You can run missions so damn fast with that combo.

Back to my point, I still don't think many will fly the line ships even with this rule.

Except perhaps a few of us on a lark, just for the hell of it  .

Oh DH got one thing for you to consider on this, what about the Heavy war destroyers?  While technically vanilla I'm not sure that they should get any shorter penalty.  The Kzin ones can be pretty mean hex flippers with six drone racks and all of them have fighters.  I'd recommend considering all the HDWs to be specialty ships in keeping in the spirit of the issue.

I did. HDWs did not get the "v"

Good move 

[Braxton_RIP]

What about the MIRV boats, DH? 

[el-Karnak]

That is pretty much my point.  The command cruiser do not get this excemption and the I-CA series are better than the CCs of the rest of the races.. 

Let's be honest, everyone is going to fly a Command/Specialty ship anyway.

Yeah, but don't forget that when Karnak is flying the I-CA series then they are better than the DNs for the other races; especially, the all-powerful F-DN. Yeah, maybe even the BBs of every race!!  YEAH!! :O

I can't live with myself if you don't make all the ISC ships down to at least the I-ECL level CCs variants. It just wouldn't be sporting and fair and that would just suck to be on receiving of such Frog firepower.  I mean, think of the poor Gorns quivering in the flakey G-CAs getting the PPD shower. That's so sad...

*sniff*, *sniff*

Please DH, you gotta make all the I-ECLs and I-DDs equivalent to CC variants. You just got to!!! 

[FPF-DieHard]

What about the MIRV boats, DH? 

There are no MIRV line ships

[Braxton_RIP]

the all-powerful F-DN

F-DN = Crap

F-DNL = *Drool*

[el-Karnak]

the all-powerful F-DN

F-DN = Crap

F-DNL = *Drool*

SHHHHHHHHH!!!

Durn, foiled again....