Topic: AoTK II Rules!!

[KAT J'inn]

SFC2.Net proudly announces:

ATTACK OF THE KITTIES II:    An Orion Pirates Dynaverse II Campaign.

The Campaign will run for 30 days.

Starting Saturday July 23, 2005.  Time TBA.


I.  BACK STORY   

After years of tensions and several wars the Coalition (K, R, L and sometimes ISC) and the Alliance (F,H,G,Z) have reached an uneasy stalemate.  The neutral zone treaty is enacted and trade blooms.

Kzinti and Lyran political issues,  however, are as hostile as ever.   Both sides feel a great deal of indignation at being an unequal partner in their respective alliance.

Deep within the Denebulan Asteroid Expanse Five (5) dilithium rich planetoids are discovered by an ISC taskforce.   These planetoids hold enough dilithium to change the balance of power in the favor of whoever controls them.

Sensing an opportunity, the Feline Powers form a secret alliance and attempt to take control of the Denebulan Asteroid Expanse.   War ensues.

Due to the sudden betrayal and attack the Alliance and the Coalition reel at the sudden enemy on there unprotected border.   There are no bases between the Lyrans and the Kzinti and their new enemies.   The old neutral zone is suddenly meaningless is several sectors.

The Alliance and the Coalition must scramble to protect their borders from the Feline Menace while at the same time prevent the other from taking advantage of the situation.
      

II. SERVER SET-UP

Standard Set-Up.

Bases can be destroyed.

See Die Hard’s posts for further details.

III. RULES

1) BASICS:

Players may fly only one ship at a time.

Any ship that appears in the yards may be purchased and played.   (But see OoB Rules).

You may not place a base adjacent to any other base or planet (allied, enemy, or neutral).

You may change accounts or have more than one account among the different races of your side.

2) LINE OF SUPPLY:

1.   If you are in a hex that is completely surrounded by enemy hexes then you cannot disengage.

2.   LOS is determined at the moment a mission starts.  Anything that happens during the mission is question is irrelevant.

3.  To have a LOS you must be able to trace a single hex wide path to any of your team's Homeworlds.  All hexes in the the path must be controlled by your side.

4.  You cannot flip an enemy planet to neutral (or any other color) unless you have a LOS to it first.   Softening it up via Deepstrikes is okay.  Just no flipping.    No flipping of neutral planets to your team's color without an LOS either.

3)    DISENGAGEMENT RULE:

Def. - Ship of the Line - Any ship in the shiplist with a "v" at the front of it's name.  For example.  F-vCA.  If it doesn't have a "v" it is NOT a Line Ship.

FOR SHIPS OF THE LINE

- If you disengage from a battle with a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 10 game turns.

- If your ship is destroyed by a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 5 game turns.

FOR ALL OTHER SHIPS

- If you disengage from a battle with a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 20 game turns.

- If your ship is destroyed by a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 10 game turns.

IN GENERAL

There are no exemptions for the above two rules.  If you're stuck with a 1v3 or are forced to fly your FF against a BCH ... then the other side simply played their moves better.

4) ORDER OF BATTLE RULES FOR CAPITAL SHIPS:

Anyone my purchase and fly a Capital ship.

Capital ships are all DNs, CVAs, and BCHs.  (Specific listing will be provided)

Each team (not race) may have 7 points of Capital Ships in game at any one time.   The point value is:

CVA = 4
DN = 3
BCH = 2


There may never be more than one Capital ship per team in a mission.   If two or more are drafted, all except one must disengage IMMEDIATELTY.  (In this case the disengagement rule does not apply to those ships that disengage simply to reduce the number of Capital Ships to one.)

IN ADDITION!!!    Each side gets 7 "on the board" X-Ship points as well.   X-Ship point values are listed below.


Capital Ships (and X-Ships) are listed below along with their point cost:

Federation F-CLX 2 
Federation F-GSX 3 
Federation F-CX 3 
   
Gorn G-HDX 2 
Gorn G-CMX 3 
Gorn G-CCX 3 
   
Hydran H-MNGX 2 
Hydran H-TARX 2 
Hydran H-BARX 2 
Hydran H-APAX 2 
Hydran H-RNX 3 
Hydran H-DGX 3 
Hydran H-LBX 3 
   
ISC I-CLX 2 
ISC I-CSX 2 
ISC I-CMX 2 
ISC I-CAX 3 
ISC I-CCX 7 
   
Klingon K-D5X 2 
Klingon K-D5XD 2 
Klingon K-D5XDm 2 
Klingon K-DX 3 
Klingon K-DXD 3 
Klingon K-DXDm 3 
Klingon K-D7TX 3 
   
Lyran L-CWXF 2 
Lyran L-CCXF 3 
   
Mirak Z-CMX 2 
Mirak Z-CMXm 2 
Mirak Z-CMXD 2 
Mirak Z-CMXDm 2 
Mirak Z-BCX 3 
Mirak Z-BCXm 3 
Mirak Z-CCX 3 
Mirak Z-CCXm 3 
   
Romulan R-SPX 2 
Romulan R-KEX 2 
Romulan R-K7X 3 
Romulan R-FHX 3 

 
Federation F-BCG 2
Federation F-BCF 2
Federation F-BCJ 2
Federation F-BCE 2
Federation F-BCV 2
Federation F-BCS 2
Federation F-BCGf 2
Federation F-BCFf 2
Federation F-BCJf 2
Federation F-DN 3
Federation F-DN+ 3
Federation F-DNG 3
Federation F-DNW 3
Federation F-DNL 3
Federation F-DVL 3
Federation F-DNM 3
Federation F-DNH 3
Federation F-DNF 3
Federation F-CVA 4
Federation F-CVA+ 4
Federation F-CVAR 4
Federation F-SCS 4
Federation F-DNLf 3
Federation F-DNHf 3
Federation F-DNWf 3
Federation F-DNMf 3
Federation F-DNFf 3
   
Gorn G-BCH 2
Gorn G-BCS 2
Gorn G-BCV 2
Gorn G-BCHf 2
Gorn G-DNE 3
Gorn G-DN 3
Gorn G-DNF 3
Gorn G-DNP 3
Gorn G-DNL 3
Gorn G-DLF 3
Gorn G-DNM 3
Gorn G-DND 3
Gorn G-DNT 3
Gorn G-DNH 3
Gorn G-DNHph 3
Gorn G-CVA 4
Gorn G-CVAF 4
Gorn G-DNLf 3
Gorn G-DNMf 3
Gorn G-DNDf 3
Gorn G-DNFf 3
Gorn G-DNTf 3
Gorn G-DNHf 3
   
Hydran H-OV 2
Hydran H-OS 2
Hydran H-OVh 2
Hydran H-OM 2
Hydran H-TEM 3
Hydran H-PAL 3
Hydran H-PAL+ 3
Hydran H-LGE 3
Hydran H-LGE+ 3
Hydran H-PAH 3
Hydran H-REG 3
Hydran H-DNW 3
Hydran H-DNM 3
Hydran H-IC 4
Hydran H-IC+ 4
Hydran H-ID 4
Hydran H-LGE+h 3
Hydran H-IDh 4
Hydran H-DNWf 3
Hydran H-DNMf 3
Hydran H-REGh 3
   
ISC I-CC 2
ISC I-CCY 2
ISC I-CCZ 2
ISC I-BCV 2
ISC I-CCZf 2
ISC I-DNE 3
ISC I-DN 3
ISC I-DNZ 3
ISC I-DNL 3
ISC I-DNT 3
ISC I-DNP 3
ISC I-DNH 3
ISC I-DNW 3
ISC I-DNM 3
ISC I-CVA 4
ISC I-CVAZ 4
ISC I-DNLf 3
ISC I-DNZf 3
ISC I-DNTf 3
ISC I-DNPf 3
ISC I-DNWf 3
ISC I-DNMf 3
ISC I-DNHf 3
   
Klingon K-C7 2
Klingon K-C7V 2
Klingon K-C7f 2
Klingon K-C6 3
Klingon K-C8 3
Klingon K-C8B 3
Klingon K-C8K 3
Klingon K-C8KR 3
Klingon K-C8V 4
Klingon K-C8VK 4
Klingon K-C9 3
Klingon K-C9B 3
Klingon K-C9K 3
Klingon K-C9KR 3
Klingon K-C5 3
Klingon K-C5B 3
Klingon K-C5K 3
Klingon K-C5KR 3
Klingon K-C5M 3
Klingon K-C10K 3
Klingon K-WD5 3
Klingon K-C5Kf 3
Klingon K-C5Mf 3
Klingon K-WD5f 3
Klingon K-C10Kf 3
   
Lyran L-BC 2
Lyran L-BCp+ 2
Lyran L-BCPp 2
Lyran L-BCPF 2
Lyran L-BCH 2
Lyran L-BCHP 2
Lyran L-BCHF 2
Lyran L-BCHT 2
Lyran L-BCV 2
Lyran L-DNE 3
Lyran L-DN 3
Lyran L-DNp+ 3
Lyran L-DNPp 3
Lyran L-DNF 3
Lyran L-DNT 3
Lyran L-DNL 3
Lyran L-DNLp+ 3
Lyran L-DNLPp 3
Lyran L-DNLF 3
Lyran L-DNLT 3
Lyran L-DNW 3
Lyran L-DNWF 3
Lyran L-DNWT 3
Lyran L-DNH 3
Lyran L-DNHF 3
Lyran L-DNHT 3
Lyran L-DNM 3
Lyran L-DNMF 3
Lyran L-DNMT 3
Lyran L-DNHE 3
Lyran L-STL 3
Lyran L-STLF 3
Lyran L-CVA 4
   
Mirak Z-BCH 2
Mirak Z-BCHm 2
Mirak Z-BCV 2
Mirak Z-BCVm 2
Mirak Z-BCHf 2
Mirak Z-BCHmf 2
Mirak Z-BCS 2
Mirak Z-BCSm 2
Mirak Z-DNE 3
Mirak Z-DN 3
Mirak Z-DN_m 3
Mirak Z-DNR 3
Mirak Z-DNRm 3
Mirak Z-DNL 3
Mirak Z-DNLm 3
Mirak Z-DNLR 3
Mirak Z-DNLRm 3
Mirak Z-DNM 3
Mirak Z-DNMm 3
Mirak Z-DNH 3
Mirak Z-DNHm 3
Mirak Z-DNW 3
Mirak Z-DNWm 3
Mirak Z-CVA 4
Mirak Z-CVAm 4
Mirak Z-CVAR 4
Mirak Z-CVARm 4
Mirak Z-DNL+f 3
Mirak Z-DNL+mf 3
Mirak Z-DNMf 3
Mirak Z-DNMmf 3
Mirak Z-DNWf 3
Mirak Z-DNWmf 3
Mirak Z-DNHf 33
Mirak Z-DNHmf 3
   
Romulan R-KCR 2
Romulan R-KHK 2
Romulan R-SUT 2
Romulan R-SUB 2
Romulan R-SUN 2
Romulan R-VUL+ 3
Romulan R-WVL 3
Romulan R-KVL 3
Romulan R-K9R 3
Romulan R-K9RB 3
Romulan R-K9RH 3
Romulan R-CON 3
Romulan R-CON+ 3
Romulan R-SHR 3
Romulan R-CNH 3
Romulan R-PRA 3
Romulan R-ROCF 4
Romulan R-CNV 4
Romulan R-CNV+ 4
Romulan R-CNHf 3


5) PF/FIGHTER CNC:

 
PFs
 
Casual Tenders may carry 2 Vanilla PFs
 
NOTE:  THe Kzinti Drone PF is Vanilla as none of there's have AMD
 
A Casual Tenders (any tender with only 2 PFs) may not recall it's PFs once launched in mission. This is to simulate the fact that casual tenders had no repair capability per SFB. This restriction does not apply to 3 and 4 PF tenders
 
Full Tenders (3 or 4 PFs): 1 Leader, 1 Special PF, 1 or 2 Vanilla PFs
 
Fighters
 
Federation: F-14 and F-15 fighters controlled by CnC. F-15s only on the CVS, F-14s only on the CVA (2 squads), DVL, and BCV.
 
Klingon/Romulan/Gorn/Lyran/ISC/Kzinti:  None
 
Hydran:   Heavy Fighters (the word 'Heavy" is in the name, should be fairly obvious) for the most part replace PFs.   Ships with a small "h" at the end of their name may carry 2 Heavy fighters in addition to their normal compliment.  These fighters may be recalled since fighters cannot re-arm their own weapons.  Deck Crew Compliment is not changed.
 
The H-OM and H-IDh may carry 4 Heavy Fighters.
 
Helebore Fighter Restrictions:   The H-CAV/CAV+ and H-IC/IC+ are limited to 50% helebore fighters. 



6)  NON-AGGRESSION PACTS AND DEALS

Legal.   Your side may get gang-banged.   Plan for it.


7) VICTORY CONDITIONS

There will only be a Campaign Winner.  There is no second or third place.

To be the Campaign Winner your team must achieve all of the following at the end of the server:

-   3 of the Mine Planetoids.
-   2 enemy Planets.   (1 planet from each enemy)
-   All of the above hexes must have one hex wide path from the target to a Homeworld of that team.  This goes by side, not race, i.e., hexes in the LOS and the Homeworld can be held by any member of your team.

There may be no Campaign Winner at all.

IV.  MAP

Federation:

Earth   2, 28

Vulcan  10:27

Andor 19:26

Deltus 9:22

Betazed 21:23

Starbase -  Deepspace 1   21:25

Starbase – Deepspace 2   17:20


Gorn:

Ghdar  1:16

Cygnae  12:15

Trella 19:16

Sauran 11:18

BaSylius  2:11

Starbase  -   Warlock   2:!3

Starbase  -   Iadokia’s Plan  10:15


Hydran:

Hydra  29:29

Hydraxia  28:27

Sinae  28:24

Traxzon 36:28

Bellius  35:25

Starbase -  Autolycus   28:22

Starbase -  Marcalias   32:27


Klingon:

Qo’Nos  11:0

Klinzai  8:4

Pator  15:7

Mer’Nok 18:6

B'Rell 3:2

Starbase -  KahLess’ Pride 19:8

Starbase -  General Kang  16:5


Romulan:

Romulus  58:4

Remus  43:16

Rhinasus 51:15

Tru’Jan  55:12

Shire 43:13

Starbase – Alpha  49:!4

Starbase – Epsilon 45:12


Lyran:

Lyra  57:1

Triest 46:9

Shantar Prime  42:4

Linus  51:5

Bane 43:8

Starbase – Jukaga  41:10

Starbase – Longnail  45:7


ISC:

Condordia  58:14

Cellan  43:16

Felinus  51:15

Cambria  55:12

Storan 43:13

Starbase – Republic  49:14

Starbase – Civire 45:12


Kzinti:

M’Raa  57:27

M’Reth 43:23

M’Hiss  43:27

M’Hack 40:22

M'RRRow 51:24

Starbase – Brez’ Strike  47:24

Starbase -  M’Ress  45:24



V.  D2 STANDARD RULE SET

Do not post accusations about players in the forums or in the IRC Chat of the game. If you have a complaint or believe a player is in violation of the rules, contact your Race Moderator (RM) or Assistant Race Moderator (ARM) via e-mail or private message. Please remember to save any screenshots or films you may have to support your claim and provide them to your RM or ARM.

Alt+F4'ing out of a mission is prohibited. The exception to this rule is if all players involved in the battle agree to its usage (taking a screenshot, F12, of the agreement is recommended). Examples of when an Alt+F4 should be agreed to and used are:

    - Mission bugs, to include the "Host Left, New Host ____" message appears at the start of the battle.

    - Allies showing as enemies.

    - Serious game lag.

    - Other scripting anomalies.

Draft dodging is not permitted. If drafted by another player, you must accept the draft.

Forfeiting missions to move around on the map is not permitted. Mandatory missions must be taken.

Always show common courtesy to all other players. Abusive players will be banned.

A player's name may only consist of alpha numeric symbols (A to Z, 0 to 9). Players may use a hyphen ( - ) or underscore ( _ ) if they wish, but use of any other symbol or character (Space bar, !, $, *, ], period, %, etc) can not be used.  These characters can cause server or server utility problems.

During some missions, a player's name may not be indicated on their ship. If you suspect you are playing against a human, type a greeting (i.e. hail, in, hello, etc) in the chat.  All other human players are required to immediately respond with a text chat greeting.

No avoiding missions you do not like by logging off then back on.

When playing a game against the AI in a neutral hex, do not immediately run off of the battlefield map in order to run down the defensive value (DV) of the hex.

Fight or Flight. When in a mission with a human opponent, fight or leave. Do not lead your opponents around the map wasting their time. It is recognized that there are many good run and chase strategies (saber dancing, plasma ballet, etc) but staying on the battlefield with no intentions of fighting is not one of them.

If you are having a bad connection and either dropping a lot or causing your opponents to constantly drop, we ask that you stop playing for a while and try again later. If your connection continues to cause problems we ask that you confine yourself to an area where you will not constantly draft or be drafted by other players until you get a better connection.

If you die in a mission with a human opponent, stay until the mission is complete. Consider it a penalty for dying that you must stay and watch the rest of your allies be destroyed, or the rest of your allies whoop some butt!

Rule Harassment: Some of the rules will be difficult to follow given the nature of this game. Players are expected to do their best in every situation. However it is not acceptable to harass other players about the rules. We do expect all players to help others become aware of the rules. If you are having a problem with a player who refuses to follow them simply send your RM or ARM an email with as much detail as possible. Please use screenshots (F12 key) to capture your conversation as evidence. Harassing a player because they are not following these rules or for any other reason is not acceptable. Please remember that everyone is just trying to enjoy themselves and that this is a game.

VII. CONFIGURING YOUR GAME (STILL TO BE DEVELOPED, CHECK BACK AS WE GET CLOSER TO LAUNCH)

In order to play on The General War server, you will need to ensure you have some specific shiplists, missions, and mission configuration files installed. Many of you already have these, but to ensure every does ... please follow steps below. If an update is made, and new files are needed, it will be annotated in the upper right corner at the top of this webpage and the links below will be adjusted.

For those of you with a fresh copy of the game, then ...

Step 1: INSTALL OP+ 4.0 first!!!!!! Rember to back everything up

Step 2: Download and install the Complete Installer.

VIII. UTILITIES AND AIDS

Note: Many shiplists, mission packs, and utilities are downloaded in .zipped files. Players can obtain free copies of WinRAR or WinZIP to unzip these files.

KhoroMag's EzINI. Downloading and running this utility allows players to adjust automatic recording, volley fire info (internal damage done to the target), screen resolution and other features.

Ventrilo, Roger Wilco and Team Speak 2. These voice chat programs are free and allow players to talk while in-game. Check with your fellow gamers to see which of the two programs are being used by your side. If you take the Roger Wilco option, it is recommended (but not required) that you also download MyTuner which will allow you to change channels while in the game (Team Speak 2 and Ventrilo do not require any additional downloads to change channels while in-game).

SFC2.NET provides forums for all races in the SFC2 realm. Players are encouraged to register and request access to their race's appropriate forums. Players should request access to the race they will be flying and the forum for the side they will be playing on. To request access, simply click on the "'usergroups" link at the top of the SFC2.NET forums, then click the "Non-Member Groups" drop-down box, highlight the forum you wish to access, click "View Information", and finally click "Join Group". An e-mail will be sent to you once access has been granted.

[Sirgod]

Consider It stickied Will.

Stephen

[Green]

  clarification ...

- If you disengage from a battle with a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 20 game turns.  If you were flying a Capital Ship that particular ship is also banned from the hex. Thus if you transfer the ship to another pilot after being banned, not only would you still not be allowed into that hex until the ban was up, but neither would the pilot that is now flying the ship you had been in.

Since the OOB on AOTK2 is limited to only X points per side online at any one time, and not a hard OOB (using named ships to control OOB)...then ships aren't transfered.  Each side might, and probably will, have much more than 7 points of capital ships in various accounts...but only 7 points will be online at a time.  Recommend dropping the rule since it isn't applicable to this server's oob and might cause confusion. 

- If your ship is destroyed by a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 10 game turns.

How long are game turns?


Thanks J'inn

PS - I prefer my background story

[Dfly]

I notice the Kzinty have only 4 planets compared to 5 for all the other races.  Is this right?

[KBFLordKrueg]

clarification ...

- If you disengage from a battle with a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 20 game turns.  If you were flying a Capital Ship that particular ship is also banned from the hex. Thus if you transfer the ship to another pilot after being banned, not only would you still not be allowed into that hex until the ban was up, but neither would the pilot that is now flying the ship you had been in.

Since the OOB on AOTK2 is limited to only X points per side online at any one time, and not a hard OOB (using named ships to control OOB)...then ships aren't transfered.  Each side might, and probably will, have much more than 7 points of capital ships in various accounts...but only 7 points will be online at a time.  Recommend dropping the rule since it isn't applicable to this server's oob and might cause confusion. 

- If your ship is destroyed by a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 10 game turns.

How long are game turns?


Thanks J'inn

PS - I prefer my background story

I agree with all of these points made by Green...
I'm interesting in knowing how long in minutes each game turn is exactly, so all my players may be firmly aware of them. 
But, your story is cool, too, Jinn...

[Green]

I notice the Kzinty have only 4 planets compared to 5 for all the other races.  Is this right?

The Klingons only have 4 also.  Probably not a big deal...not sure how much home-planets are going to play in the campaign.

[FPF-DieHard]

Disengament will be 100 Minutes, 50 if killed (correct me J'inn if I am wrong).

The turns will be quick, I'll let you know the exact time as soon as I figured it out.   Guessin 5 minutes or less

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I notice the Kzinty have only 4 planets compared to 5 for all the other races.  Is this right?

The Klingons only have 4 also.  Probably not a big deal...not sure how much home-planets are going to play in the campaign.

Just to cover the bases add a Klink and a Kzin planet

I suggest the name of M'ress for the Kzin planet as a tribute call the Klink planet whatever you will.

[FPF-DieHard]

I notice the Kzinty have only 4 planets compared to 5 for all the other races.  Is this right?

The Klingons only have 4 also.  Probably not a big deal...not sure how much home-planets are going to play in the campaign.

Just to cover the bases add a Klink and a Kzin planet

I suggest the name of M'ress for the Kzin planet as a tribute call the Klink planet whatever you will.

V'Ghinna

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

2) LINE OF SUPPLY:

Concept . . .  “In Supply”  means that the hex is close to a base or planet and that the area of space between the hex and the supply point is well controlled.   Therefore, you can call for re-enforcements easily.   In deep space  . . .  even in the hinterlands of your own space you cannot call for assistance.   This means that there is no one to come help you get away from the enemy.   Fight or die.

Whether a hex is “In Supply” is determined at the moment a mission starts.  Whatever happens while the mission is running is irrelevant.

For a hex to be “in Supply” it must have all of the following:

-   a two hex wide route of supply leading to an Allied controlled planet.  NOTE: two hexes of the route MUST be adjacent to the target hex. 

-   and within 4 hexes of an Allied controlled planet or base.  (NOTE:  you do not need a chain of bases to the planet every 4 hexes.  Just one base or planet within 4 hexes of the target hex will do. 

PLEASE NOTE . . .  this means that some hexes that are in your home space are not “in Supply”

EFFECT OF BEING IN AN OUT OF SUPPLY HEX:

-   You cannot disengage.
-    See also Victory

This might get a bit confusing especially in home space as players might not always be aware of the location of all their bases and planets, especially ones that might have gone "boom" since they last checked.

Additionally I'm not sure this will be best on a server with 50% replacement value as it might deter many pilots from trying to engage in PvP.

I mean it make sense that a deepstriking player cannot disengage, but the lone light cruiser pilot who comes across a Dreadnaught or 2 players in heavy cruisers while within the confines of his own home space surely wouldn't try to take them on, but rather disengage until a big enough force could be gathered to confront the threat.  If the rule stands in its current form you will also see too much emphasis given to co-oping as oppossed to flying solo, and too much emphasis on the larger ships.  Some players enjoy flying light cruisers and frigates you know.


I think being "out of supply" in your home space needs to go if this inability to disengage is part of it, as it doesn't make sense, it can be confusing, and it will likely make it less fun for some of the players.  The increased time penalty for disengaging rather than being destroyed is enough of a reward for the victors.

[KBFLordKrueg]

2) LINE OF SUPPLY:

Concept . . .  “In Supply”  means that the hex is close to a base or planet and that the area of space between the hex and the supply point is well controlled.   Therefore, you can call for re-enforcements easily.   In deep space  . . .  even in the hinterlands of your own space you cannot call for assistance.   This means that there is no one to come help you get away from the enemy.   Fight or die.

Whether a hex is “In Supply” is determined at the moment a mission starts.  Whatever happens while the mission is running is irrelevant.

For a hex to be “in Supply” it must have all of the following:

-   a two hex wide route of supply leading to an Allied controlled planet.  NOTE: two hexes of the route MUST be adjacent to the target hex. 

-   and within 4 hexes of an Allied controlled planet or base.  (NOTE:  you do not need a chain of bases to the planet every 4 hexes.  Just one base or planet within 4 hexes of the target hex will do. 

PLEASE NOTE . . .  this means that some hexes that are in your home space are not “in Supply”

EFFECT OF BEING IN AN OUT OF SUPPLY HEX:

-   You cannot disengage.
-    See also Victory

This might get a bit confusing especially in home space as players might not always be aware of the location of all their bases and planets, especially ones that might have gone "boom" since they last checked.

Additionally I'm not sure this will be best on a server with 50% replacement value as it might deter many pilots from trying to engage in PvP.

I mean it make sense that a deepstriking player cannot disengage, but the lone light cruiser pilot who comes across a Dreadnaught or 2 players in heavy cruisers while within the confines of his own home space surely wouldn't try to take them on, but rather disengage until a big enough force could be gathered to confront the threat.  If the rule stands in its current form you will also see too much emphasis given to co-oping as oppossed to flying solo, and too much emphasis on the larger ships.  Some players enjoy flying light cruisers and frigates you know.


I think being "out of supply" in your home space needs to go if this inability to disengage is part of it, as it doesn't make sense, it can be confusing, and it will likely make it less fun for some of the players.  The increased time penalty for disengaging rather than being destroyed is enough of a reward for the victors.

After reading through the LOS rules, I have to strongly agree with Chutt about being "out of supply" in your home space.
I believe it could lead to way too much confusion. Especially since it has been proven over and over the bulk of the players rarely even read the rules at all before playing in a campaign. 

[KAT J'inn]

Hmmm  some cutting and pasting boo boos.   I blame Microsoft.

The Kzinti and the Klingons do have another palanet,  the cut and paste just lost it.

As for Home Space . . .  my concern is whether we will be able to remember where home space even was after 15 days into the server.     Is it that hard to make sure you are 4 hexes from a Supply point before grabbing a mission? If you guys really think so I'll change it, but remembering where home space wasw will be hard.

Changing things for non-rules readers doesn't work for me.  LOL.   However, I'll leave it to the three RMs  (and them only) to let me know which way to go with this.  Since there is 3 it is easy.  Majority vote.

As for the ship penalty,  that is a left over from GW and I'll yank it as I agree i is not needed.

[KAT J'inn]

Rules Updated.   Changes clearly marked.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I think the easiest way to resolve when you can disengage would be to allow it only if your side had a path back to homespace or another controlled planet, without worry about distance.  Bases can be destroyed and placed and thus confusing planets are permanent and are not.

To me it doesn't make sense that a ship could be forced to stay vs  superior forces if it was in space controlled by its faction and had a way out.  I can see a stretch of justification that it couldn't if it was cut off from its own planets, and even with a way out it could be hunted unless it had a link with a planet.  Also under the current ruleset, if you try using a 2 hex wide rule  a ship could be 2 hexes away from a controlled planet with a 1 hex path  and ruled out of supply and too far from reinforcements, but could be twice as far away and in supply and witin reach of the cavalry as long as it had the 2 hex wide path in empty space.  To me this  doesn't make sense as the extra emptiness of space has nothing to do with how close the help is.  I can understand a 2 hex wide path being needed for an invasion with major fleet units, but not to get 1 ship out of a sector.

[KAT J'inn]

The reason for making the LOS like this was to make bases mean something.   Without them being a VC and without them meaning anything for LOS purposes,  destroying them via deepstrikes is almost meaningless other than it effects resupply a tad, but not much, and only those races that really rely on supply  (drones).

[Dfly]

as an idea, why not make a base kill worth a PvP kill?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

The reason for making the LOS like this was to make bases mean something.   Without them being a VC and without them meaning anything for LOS purposes,  destroying them via deepstrikes is almost meaningless other than it effects resupply a tad, but not much, and only those races that really rely on supply  (drones).

I'm cool with Bases being used for LOS in wheter VC like conditions are met, and perhaps they could even be used in the tracing of a disengagement option path.  But to require a double row seems silly to me for disengagement purposes since starships just aint that big, and distance shouldn't be relevent only the existence of a path.  With only a 50% replacement value for ships and slow turns I think disallowing disengagement is counter productive.  If you still want to do this, perhqps only allow disengagement in the first 2 minutes of a fight or so, or immediately after any player loses connection. 

If the rule is kept like at present you can get a situation like the hypothetical one below.

Player A not a pvp God and not a nutter finally gets enough prestige and the chance to try his hand with a DN in combat.  He is looking forward to it but with a bit of nervousness.  He has player B draft him and they get Players C and D.  Player C is in a DN and player D in a heavy cruiser both are good pilots.  Though nervous he is excited as his wingman in a heavy cruiser is a real ace and will help him through the fight on voice comms.  Suddenly Player B drops at the mission start.  Player A is screwed and will likely not manage to get into a DN again for a week.

Not too cool eh?

[Green]

Not sure of the ABCs that Chuut is speaking of ... but if bases can be destroyed, they should NOT be worth VCs (ya can't track which ones have been built and blown-up).

[KAT J'inn]

LOS rules removed.   See above.

Have read several posts in several forums that concern me .. . .  Please note . . .   Just to be clear . . . . There are NO VC POINTS IN THIS CAMPAIGN.   None.  Nada.  Zilch.    Nothing for killing a base.  Nothing for killing a Capital ship.  Zero. None.  Absolutely nothing.  LOL

[Kroma BaSyl]

Is this the ATOK Flame thread? I seem to still be in an Eve-crack induced fog and can't find my way.

[KAT J'inn]

Is this the ATOK Flame thread? I seem to still be in an Eve-crack induced fog and can't find my way.

ROFL!!   No actually there have been no flame threads at all.   This is the rules thread.   Please check in one day after server start for a flame thread.

J'inn the Helpful

[Kroma BaSyl]

ROFL!!   No actually there have been no flame threads at all.   This is the rules thread.   Please check in one day after server start for a flame thread.

Well for 10 mil ISK I will see if I can't get one started for you.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

J'inn, what kind of LOS rule, if any will be used for base placements and flipping of planets?

Also perhaps we should have it that  disengaging during a deepstrike be prohibited?

[Dfly]

I thought it was an automatic that when deepstriking you could never disengage.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I always play by that code but it should be specifically written into the server rules to avoid confusion, and make it official.

[KAT J'inn]

A few more changes.

1.    Disengagement rule taken out.   It's not needed for this type of a campaign.  We are going for old school rules lite here.   Beside each team has a drone race.   Furthermore, it increases PvP.

2.  See updated LOS rule.

[KAT J'inn]

Dh we need a listing of the BCHs, DNs,  and CVAs please.   Well mainly the BCHs so as to avoid confusion.

[762_XC]

A few more changes.

1.    Disengagement rule taken out.   It's not needed for this type of a campaign.  We are going for old school rules lite here.   Beside each team has a drone race.   Furthermore, it increases PvP.

And makes it useless at the same time.

We aiming for a Gook type server here? My interest level just dropped by a lot.

Bad idea IMHO.

[KAT J'inn]

762, if you mean an old old style campaign.   Yes, that's the target.  After multiple rules intensive campaigns, it was time for a break from them.

[762_XC]

I wasn't aware that anyone was clamoring for a break from the Disengagment Rule, which to my knowledge was universally accepted to be a Good Thing.

Are we looking to push everybody into droners? I don't understand what it is about "Old Style" that we're shooting for here.

Consider J'inn that MANY people play on D2 just to get good PvP action, and taking out the DR gives them nothing to play for.

I wish you would seriously reconsider this. I think it will do much more harm than good.

[KAT J'inn]

As always it is up to the RMs.  Some input from them would be helpful. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Um, you pulled the disengagment rule?  Think that might be triming a bit too far?

[Kroma BaSyl]

Um, you pulled the disengagment rule?  Think that might be triming a bit too far?

I agree, keep the disengagement rule and add no disengagement allowed if not adjacent to allied or neutral hex.

[KAT J'inn]

It was not in AoTK I.  So I figured AoTK II wopuld be a basic re-run and not AoTK I + Rules.

Personally, I'd like to see AoTK II with the exact same rules as AoTK I.   People had fun on AoTK I.   However, if the RMs want some more rules put in, that is fine.  Problem is, the only RM providing input in Hexx.

Now if I go with what all the players want we'll have 500 pages of rules because they all want something different.

So I have to start somewhere.  And that's with a striped down rule set.   Until I hear from some RMs.  <cough> HELLO RMS!!!!

Besides, I hate the Disengagement rule.   I suck at PvP so it results in me being screwed.  :p



Note: I am using strikeout and underline so I can switch stuff back and forth.   I really want RM input for the rules. 

[Kroma BaSyl]

It was ATOK 1 that made it perfectly clear that a disengagement rule was necessary or the dyna would die. Leaving it out would be a major mistake. It is probably the one critical rule to any server, all other rules are window dressing. Without it there is abolutely no reason to PvP, which quite frankly is the only reason I would bother to play anymore.

[762_XC]

What Sexy said.

[Braxton_RIP]

My thoughts on the subject: http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163358399.0.html

[Hexx]

Well as the only RM really giving inout I guess I count for 100% of the electoral process.
Leave the disengagement rule in.

Now give me a sec to make a list of my other demands..

[KAT J'inn]

Disengagement rule back in (eventhough I HATE IT!!!) due to 2 RMs votes.

RMs  please see Hexx's idea about bases in the other thread.  It's  <shudder>  good.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Hexx isn't the RM I Am.

I vote against the disengagemnet rule, but would approve of a lesser version of it.  Back in the day we used to basically have the rule that if you got chased out you stayed out like the current disengagement rule, except that you could go back in with a bigger ship or with a wingman.  I like the idea that you can go back quicker with reinforcements as this has the element of realism.  Going back in faster because you lost your ship kinda seems weird.


I guess Kreug can break the tie.  Although I would be open to negoations on a modified disengaement rule.

I also would be willing to change my vote should I get enough response in the Kitty forum in support of this rule.  Kroma and Hexx have access there so start lobbying for a vote change over there.   

I actually don't mind the rule so much but I know some players absolutely hate it and think they might deserve a campaign without it for once.

[SkyFlyer]

Um, you pulled the disengagment rule? Think that might be triming a bit too far?

I agree, keep the disengagement rule and add no disengagement allowed if not adjacent to allied or neutral hex.

X2

[Kroma BaSyl]

  Kroma and Hexx have access there so start lobbying for a vote change over there.   

I won't lobby you to change your vote. I have stated my opinion of it. If the rule is in I will play, if it isn't I won't waste my time as I suspect the majority of players won't bother either.

[el-Karnak]

  Kroma and Hexx have access there so start lobbying for a vote change over there.   

I won't lobby you to change your vote. I have stated my opinion of it. If the rule is in I will play, if it isn't I won't waste my time as I suspect the majority of players won't bother either.

x3.

No disengagement rule is a dyna killer and will negate any hard work put in the dyna by all techies.

[Hexx]

Blah blah blah

1) - Kreug will vote for the disengagement rule, I've winged with him enough and gotten him killed
      while winging with him to hear about his opinion on everything

2)- Chuut (while of dubious ethical and intellectual nature-the boy does fly kzin) didn't say try and change his mind
     He said post yer thoughts in the Kitty forum and that he will go with the majority (Kroma's done this, anyone else pls post there)

3)  Uhmm, had a third point a second ago. 
   

[GDA-Agave]

Taking out the disengagement rule would be a mistake.   It's not like you're run out of the hex permanently.   It's just gives the PvP winning side a time reprieve from their enemies while they take or reinforce a hex.

Now, a possible compromise would be to reduce the time penality for disengaging.   It seems it has become a common penality of aprox. 1 hour for disengaging.    Cut it in half maybe, but please do not remove it.   That would be a mistake in my opinion.

[Braxton_RIP]

Taking out the disengagement rule would be a mistake.   It's not like you're run out of the hex permanently.   It's just gives the PvP winning side a time reprieve from their enemies while they take or reinforce a hex.

Now, a possible compromise would be to reduce the time penality for disengaging.   It seems it has become a common penality of aprox. 1 hour for disengaging.    Cut it in half maybe, but please do not remove it.   That would be a mistake in my opinion.

This brings up another interesting question.  If you get banned from a hex, is it just that account, or is it all you accounts?

[Hexx]

It's the player banned from the hex, not the account.

[KAT J'inn]

Rule Page updated based on RM input.


SERVER STARTS SATURDAY . . .  HARDWARE, SOFTWARE, and PEOPLEWARE Dependant

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Make inclusion of the disengagement rule unanimous, my group has spoken on the Kitty forums and I endorse their wishes 100% without any reservations for this server.  As Rm I put my wishes secondary to that of my team.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Oh and J'inn please add that a LOS is needed for base placement if this is the case (I assume it is) for clarification.

Also is LOS needed for taking a planet or is any planet neutral or enemy a potential deepstrike objective.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

5) PF/FIGHTER CNC:

Die Hard???

Still waiting on this one.

[Hexx]

Peopleware?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Peopleware?

Yeah how many cabin boys Kroma wears out if he doesn't have enough to last him J'inn and Die Hard will be forced into hiding and be unable to run the server.

[Mazeppa]

It was ATOK 1 that made it perfectly clear that a disengagement rule was necessary or the dyna would die. Leaving it out would be a major mistake. It is probably the one critical rule to any server, all other rules are window dressing. Without it there is abolutely no reason to PvP, which quite frankly is the only reason I would bother to play anymore.

I agree with Miss Samsonite.

[FPF-DieHard]

5) PF/FIGHTER CNC:

Die Hard???

Still waiting on this one.

it's going to be very simple, like Fed Gatling retsritions, H-Heavy fighter restrictions, and the PF CnC will be the same as the GW series.

Hell no decent fighters will be out the first week anyway so we can start without it 

I'll write something up tonight after we get the 2263 test up and running.

[Marikar]

Server will start on Saturday.  whoot great.   Oh fiddle hang on thets the start of the summer holiday and I'm taking the Family to Norfolk for 2 weeks at the start of August.

[KAT J'inn]

RULES UPDATED!!!


Chuuts Disengagement Modification put in.   

Very close to casting them in stone.   Last call for Bitching!!!  I mean input.

[Braxton_RIP]

RULES UPDATED!!!


Chuuts Disengagement Modification put in.   

Very close to casting them in stone.   Last call for Bitching!!!  I mean input.

How about the "I.W.I.N." rule?  At any time the Alliance may say " I win" and they instantly win 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

RULES UPDATED!!!


Chuuts Disengagement Modification put in.   

Very close to casting them in stone.   Last call for Bitching!!!  I mean input.

Still waiting for a reply on these issuess that  I previously asked about.

Oh and J'inn please add that a LOS is needed for base placement if this is the case (I assume it is) for clarification.

Also is LOS needed for taking a planet or is any planet neutral or enemy a potential deepstrike objective

[KAT J'inn]

Oh and J'inn please add that a LOS is needed for base placement if this is the case (I assume it is) for clarification.

Also is LOS needed for taking a planet or is any planet neutral or enemy a potential deepstrike objective

For the first one I'm thinking no.   If you put it in an unsecure place it won't last long anyways so it seems like it doesn't matter.

For the second one I'm thinking no also.   You need the LOS for the VCs to matter anyways.  So deepstrike away, you still have to build and hold a bridge eventually.


Again, trying to avoid rules if at all possible.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Thanks for the reply, will wait for the final version, but either way I'm fine.

Your first explanation makes perfect sense, the second one.....well who cares its fun!

[KAT J'inn]

Changing my mind on the second one and adding it to the rules.  While at lunch I realized that without the rule certain sneaky bastards,  and you know who you are, could take advantage of a situation where no players of a certain race were logged on to prevent you from deepstriking away a whole planet.   Having to build a path first at least gives them a hope of a warning.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Changing my mind on the second one and adding it to the rules.  While at lunch I realized that without the rule certain sneaky bastards,  and you know who you are, could take advantage of a situation where no players of a certain race were logged on to prevent you from deepstriking away a whole planet.   Having to build a path first at least gives them a hope of a warning.

What if we annouce it first and post screenshots of our progress?   

[Braxton_RIP]

Changing my mind on the second one and adding it to the rules.  While at lunch I realized that without the rule certain sneaky bastards,  and you know who you are, could take advantage of a situation where no players of a certain race were logged on to prevent you from deepstriking away a whole planet.   Having to build a path first at least gives them a hope of a warning.

*Throws away about 40 sheet of plans that involved sending DH and 762 to the Mirak Homeworld.*

[KAT J'inn]

Changing my mind on the second one and adding it to the rules.  While at lunch I realized that without the rule certain sneaky bastards,  and you know who you are, could take advantage of a situation where no players of a certain race were logged on to prevent you from deepstriking away a whole planet.   Having to build a path first at least gives them a hope of a warning.

*Throws away about 40 sheet of plans that involved sending DH and 762 to the Mirak Homeworld.*

Umm Braxton . . .  let me help you out buddy . . .       forget 40 sheets.  Heck forget print.    You'll need to use easy to understand pictures for those two.   Trust me here.

[Braxton_RIP]

Changing my mind on the second one and adding it to the rules.  While at lunch I realized that without the rule certain sneaky bastards,  and you know who you are, could take advantage of a situation where no players of a certain race were logged on to prevent you from deepstriking away a whole planet.   Having to build a path first at least gives them a hope of a warning.

*Throws away about 40 sheet of plans that involved sending DH and 762 to the Mirak Homeworld.*

Umm Braxton . . .  let me help you out buddy . . .       forget 40 sheets.  Heck forget print.    You'll need to use easy to understand pictures for those two.   Trust me here.

Why do you think it took 40 sheets? LOL

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Damn it took me 40 sheets to convince some of our guys to not go take Earth with the rest of us.  I thinkthe Klingons gave up after 80.     

[Braxton_RIP]

Damn it took me 40 sheets to convince some of our guys to not go take Earth with the rest of us.  I thinkthe Klingons gave up after 80.     

The more reason to but ADD Bo..... SkyFlyer on Border b**** duty 

[SkyFlyer]

Damn it took me 40 sheets to convince some of our guys to not go take Earth with the rest of us.  I thinkthe Klingons gave up after 80.     

The more reason to but ADD Bo..... SkyFlyer on Border b**** duty

They got hot females on the border. I don't have a problem with it.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Damn it took me 40 sheets to convince some of our guys to not go take Earth with the rest of us.  I thinkthe Klingons gave up after 80.     

The more reason to but ADD Bo..... SkyFlyer on Border b**** duty

They got hot females on the border. I don't have a problem with it.

I see it now,  Skyfler trying to pic up "Latina Klingon" women wearing pants that are 3 sizes to small for them on the border.

[SkyFlyer]

Damn it took me 40 sheets to convince some of our guys to not go take Earth with the rest of us.  I thinkthe Klingons gave up after 80.     

The more reason to but ADD Bo..... SkyFlyer on Border b**** duty

They got hot females on the border. I don't have a problem with it.

I see it now, Skyfler trying to pic up "Latina Klingon" women wearing pants that are 3 sizes to small for them on the border.

I'm talkin about the human chicks    And I'M NOT ASIAN.

[KAT J'inn]

NOTE:  Minor LOS rules clarifications!!!


Rules are final.


gl hf

[KBFLordKrueg]

I notice there are still no fighter CnC posted, nor is the listing of ships that will be considered "Capitol Ships" (as promised in the Rules).
We probably should get those done pretty soon, heh?
Already getting questions from players about those subjects, guess until they're posted anything goes...? 

[FPF-DieHard]

I notice there are still no fighter CnC posted, nor is the listing of ships that will be considered "Capitol Ships" (as promised in the Rules).
We probably should get those done pretty soon, heh?
Already getting questions from players about those subjects, guess until they're posted anything goes...? 

J'inn has the Fighter CnC, he will edit it it when he can.

The Capital ships stuff is still under "review" which means I'm waiting for Fleabag and Lugage to reply to a few emails.

[KAT J'inn]

Okay, I've responded to every e-mail I have.   Let me know if it's all covered.

Also, the PF/fighter CnC Rule has been put in.

[FPF-DieHard]

Okay, I've responded to every e-mail I have.   Let me know if it's all covered.

Also, the PF/fighter CnC Rule has been put in.

Emai not received.   The title has an "X" in it.

[KAT J'inn]

I never got that one.   Please resend

[Hexx]

Are the cap ships defintions coming anytime soon?

[CaptJosh]

I'm fairly sure that's already been done. Read back through the topic, Hexx.

[FPF-DieHard]

Are the cap ships defintions coming anytime soon?

Done, submitted to J'inn and Kroma pending their approval

[Hexx]

LOL.. uhm are they even playing ? 

[FPF-DieHard]

LOL.. uhm are they even playing ? 

Would you rather the rules were left up to me?   

There is no spoon . . .

[Hexx]

LOL.. uhm are they even playing ? 

Would you rather the rules were left up to me?   

There is no spoon . . .

Actually I had someone else in mind.. <whistles innocently>

[FPF-DieHard]

LOL.. uhm are they even playing ? 

Would you rather the rules were left up to me?   

There is no spoon . . .

Actually I had someone else in mind.. <whistles innocently>

Sorry, Nanner is busy

[KAT J'inn]

LOL.. uhm are they even playing ? 

I'm following everything.   However my days of actually playing are probably over by and large.

Edit:   Rules updated with Capital Ship info.

[el-Karnak]

LOL.. uhm are they even playing ? 

I'm following everything.   However my days of actually playing are probably over by and large.

Since your rule sets and basic dyna campaign design is pretty much same in principle to what I originally did over 2 years for ISC Invasion campaign development, you may as well let me do the rules.

Other than tweaking the ISC vanilla ship classifications a little and tweaking the shipyard costs for the ship classes, I would not change much.

[KAT J'inn]

Thanks Karnak, but no need yet.   I have no problem in keeping the rules and such up to date or handling the general VC count and such.

Just won't actually be on the server much.

[KBFLordKrueg]

You're gonna love this, but...
Can we get clasification of exactly what's considered a "vanilla P/F" for each race?
I know I'm gonna get asked a hundred times which ones are "Vanilla"...
Thanks...

[Kroma BaSyl]

You're gonna love this, but...
Can we get clasification of exactly what's considered a "vanilla P/F" for each race?
I know I'm gonna get asked a hundred times which ones are "Vanilla"...
Thanks...

Just go with "if it ain't chocolate it is vanilla". Sure a few strawberries will get in there, but that is the price you pay for simlicity.

[FPF-DieHard]

You're gonna love this, but...
Can we get clasification of exactly what's considered a "vanilla P/F" for each race?
I know I'm gonna get asked a hundred times which ones are "Vanilla"...
Thanks...

No Problem, I have that posted before PFs are out 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

You're gonna love this, but...
Can we get clasification of exactly what's considered a "vanilla P/F" for each race?
I know I'm gonna get asked a hundred times which ones are "Vanilla"...
Thanks...

No Problem, I have that posted before PFs are out 

Easy Vanilla Pfs are preceded by the letters "I", "L" or "Z" for example "Z-PFL"

Non Vanilla Pnes are preceded by "F", "G", "H", "K", or "R"

Hope that makes it easier 

[KBF MalaK]

Read and ack!

<S>
Lord_MalaK   aka   MaddogK

[Bonk]

Got my PC back out of storage and I'm connecting at 28800 now!    (USB 56K softmodem... arg I hate softmodems! )

Just read this over, got a good chuckle, mostly because I'll have to stay behind the lines and just play around connecting at 28800. It also occurred to me that the hard core SFC fans are often old SFB players - so rules are good! (recalls lengthy SFB rulebooks...). 

Got all the files and I'm gonna go see if I can actually login at 28800 now... 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Got all the files and I'm gonna go see if I can actually login at 28800 now... 

And the verdict is?

-S'Cipio

[Bonk]

Got all the files and I'm gonna go see if I can actually login at 28800 now... 

And the verdict is?

-S'Cipio

Yup, logged in OK, moved halfway across the map - ran a solo mission ok (nice touches Tracey!  ) and bought a new ship. Feels good to be back even at 28.8kbps!   

EDIT: I actually managed to complete a co-op no problems as host, next two tries bugged out though - probably cuz we were chatting away on TS... still I'm impressed... could probably do co-ops without teamspeak on. (I have TS limited to 15kbps)

[TraumaTech]

Got my PC back out of storage and I'm connecting at 28800 now!    (USB 56K softmodem... arg I hate softmodems! )

Just read this over, got a good chuckle, mostly because I'll have to stay behind the lines and just play around connecting at 28800. It also occurred to me that the hard core SFC fans are often old SFB players - so rules are good! (recalls lengthy SFB rulebooks...). 

Got all the files and I'm gonna go see if I can actually login at 28800 now... 
[/quote



i know some peoples have complained of minor lag issues,regarding my connection....humphhh  cough cough"bullsh*t"  cough cough,and i sincerely feel very bad for those peeps COUGH COUGH"BULLsh*t" COUGH COUGH,BUT,if i can play  with a connection of 24000,and in the vast majority of games stay stable in most 2v2's,i see no reason why you should play behind the lines.come on up to the front lines,and have some fun   

     oh,and that is also while i am on ts......i am not saying itis always perfect,however it does amazingly well the majority of the time[/color]

[KBF MalaK]

Got all the files and I'm gonna go see if I can actually login at 28800 now... 

And the verdict is?

-S'Cipio

Yup, logged in OK, moved halfway across the map - ran a solo mission ok (nice touches Tracey!  ) and bought a new ship. Feels good to be back even at 28.8kbps!   

EDIT: I actually managed to complete a co-op no problems as host, next two tries bugged out though - probably cuz we were chatting away on TS... still I'm impressed... could probably do co-ops without teamspeak on. (I have TS limited to 15kbps)

Hi Bonk,
  Just a suggestion but it did wonders for me... Try upgrading your modem firmware. My USR x2 modem was connection all day long at 28800 until I upgraded my firmware and now it always connects at 49999. I still don't have the bandwidth to run teamspeak but 3v3 battles are not a problem anymore.

Hope this helps.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Let us all make sure all players are aware of the rule about no more than ONE capitol ship in a mission. We seem to have repeating instances if 2 or more players in capitol ships running missions together. I didn't say anything for the first couple weeks, merly informed the players.
But, it seems to be continuing as the server goes on. In some cases, the same players have been spotted repeatedly running missions, each time cliaming ignorance of the rule.
Needs to stop....

[TraumaTech]

Hi Bonk,
  Just a suggestion but it did wonders for me... Try upgrading your modem firmware. My USR x2 modem was connection all day long at 28800 until I upgraded my firmware and now it always connects at 49999. I still don't have the bandwidth to run teamspeak but 3v3 battles are not a problem anymore.

Hope this helps.

heya LM.......is this firmware for all modems??and if it is ,can u provide a link to it?

[Bonk]

Hi Bonk,
  Just a suggestion but it did wonders for me... Try upgrading your modem firmware. My USR x2 modem was connection all day long at 28800 until I upgraded my firmware and now it always connects at 49999. I still don't have the bandwidth to run teamspeak but 3v3 battles are not a problem anymore.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, I thought of that, problem is I'm using an external Dynex ^TM USB 56K Data/Fax Modem (latest firmware) it stinks (software modem)... I also have an external USRobotics^® Courier V.32 bis ^TM with ASL ^TM (19200bps) but it does not exist as far as USR is concerned, thus I am unable to update its firmware (unsure if its even capable of updating), now I am messing with an internal Best Data ^TM Data Fax Modem (56K - another softmodem) but my ISP rejects it's handshake...    I have a Diamond Supra 56K ^TM external on the way, hopefully I'll have better luck with that... Ideally I'd like a USRobotics^® Sportser 56K external... I have an old USRobotics^® Sportser 56K internal but it's ISA and my ASUS^® TUV4X mainboard has no ISA slots, but ironically has an AMR modem slot. (awseome board though...)

Thanks for the suggestion anyway though!

heya LM.......is this firmware for all modems??and if it is ,can u provide a link to it?

Pretty sure that firmware update will be modem specific - at least to USR x2 modems...

[CaptJosh]

Um, just a note here. If it's a softmodem(winmodem), it has no firmware. You just update the drivers to v.92 and go. Firmware is only on hardware modems that actually have a ROM chip on them.

[Bonk]

I know the difference, thanks for the tip though!  (Softmodems/winmodems drive me nuts!) I was using the latest drivers on the USB softmodem. (which tended to crash a lot... )

Thankfully my Diamond Supra Express 56K external (hardware modem) arrived yesterday, its a v.90 and is connecting at 31.2K. I've got a link from Diamond for the latest drivers and firmwares for their pre 2003 modems but at first glance it looks like there is no updated firmware available for it (gonna take another look at the page today...).

[KBF MalaK]

Hi Bonk,
  Just a suggestion but it did wonders for me... Try upgrading your modem firmware. My USR x2 modem was connection all day long at 28800 until I upgraded my firmware and now it always connects at 49999. I still don't have the bandwidth to run teamspeak but 3v3 battles are not a problem anymore.

Hope this helps.

heya LM.......is this firmware for all modems??and if it is ,can u provide a link to it?

Like a previous message states the firmware is modem specific so you'll have to go to the mfr's site of the modem you have and search for it.

As for winmodems go I've never had any luck with them so I won't use them. I found my X2 in a scrap pile at a garage sale for 5 bucks and did some poking around at the companies site and found the firmware upgrade by accident.

[FPF-DieHard]

Clarification:   CL X-ships, though they require X-points to be fielded, do not count as Capital ships for the purpose of Fleeting.

CL X-ships may escort DN, BCH, and CA X-ships.

CA X-ships DO count as capital ships for the purpose of fleeting.

This was never specified and was debated with the RMs.   2 of 3 agreed with this

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Clarification:   CL X-ships, though they require X-points to be fielded, do not count as Capital ships for the purpose of Fleeting.

CL X-ships may escort DN, BCH, and CA X-ships.

CA X-ships DO count as capital ships for the purpose of fleeting.

This was never specified and was debated with the RMs.   2 of 3 agreed with this

I wasn't paid a big enough bribe so I was the one opposed  esp since the X-Cls are not balanced.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

BTW:  That particular form of the rule was NEVER run by me, only an inquiry as to whether X-ship should have fleeting restrictions and I was opposed to them being able to be flown together or with capital ships.  I was never asked about X-CLs being treated differently from X-Cas, if I had been asked about that form of such a rule my opposition would have been even greater.

There is enough cheese in late era that packing more into a single mission is definately not required.

Anyway, I'm over-ruled apparently so lets get on with the super cheesefest 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'd like to propose that all X ships be named by their captains with the X prefix so that numbers online can be monitored by all.

For Example:  Instead of naming a ship the "Cheesypoof" a captain would name it the "X-Cheesypoof"

[FPF-DieHard]

I wasn't paid a big enough bribe so I was the one opposed  esp since the X-Cls are not balanced.

Yeah, your side has the best ones

[FPF-DieHard]

BTW:  That particular form of the rule was NEVER run by me, only an inquiry as to whether X-ship should have fleeting restrictions and I was opposed to them being able to be flown together or with capital ships.  I was never asked about X-CLs being treated differently from X-Cas, if I had been asked about that form of such a rule my opposition would have been even greater.

BS, we taked about this on TS.   Get of the singlemalt-nip   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I wasn't paid a big enough bribe so I was the one opposed  esp since the X-Cls are not balanced.

Yeah, your side has the best ones

Some of them yes I agree.  I'd say the Klingons got the short end of the stick.

Question:  Does this mean that a DN can run with 2 light X-cruisers, or that 3 light X-ships could all run together?  How far does the cheese wiz spread?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

BTW:  That particular form of the rule was NEVER run by me, only an inquiry as to whether X-ship should have fleeting restrictions and I was opposed to them being able to be flown together or with capital ships.  I was never asked about X-CLs being treated differently from X-Cas, if I had been asked about that form of such a rule my opposition would have been even greater.

BS, we taked about this on TS.   Get of the singlemalt-nip   

No we actually talked about only wheter or not all X-ships could fleet with capital ships or not, we never discussed the possiblity of different classes of X-ships having different rules sets.  Don't matter anyhow as I got outvoted anyhow 

[FPF-DieHard]

I'd like to propose that all X ships be named by their captains with the X prefix so that numbers online can be monitored by all.

For Example:  Instead of naming a ship the "Cheesypoof" a captain would name it the "X-Cheesypoof"

That is reasonable

[FPF-DieHard]

I wasn't paid a big enough bribe so I was the one opposed  esp since the X-Cls are not balanced.

Yeah, your side has the best ones

Some of them yes I agree.  I'd say the Klingons got the short end of the stick.

Question:  Does this mean that a DN can run with 2 light X-cruisers, or that 3 light X-ships could all run together?  How far does the cheese wiz spread?

What is means it there are no fleeting restricions to CL X-hulls. 

There were never any, the discussion was to add them in or not.   Before the X-points, CL X ships were not limited at all.  They were generally available. 

[762_XC]

My concern Chuut was that the I-CCX with two wingmen would be unbeatable otherwise.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

My concern Chuut was that the I-CCX with two wingmen would be unbeatable otherwise.

Don't know if you know it t00l, DH certainly does, but I'm pretty much against even the inclusion of X-cheddar at all, he talked me into playing on this one by pointing out they will only be available for a day or so.   I also generally also prefer 1 v 1 matches over fleet encounters as well, with a few notable exceptions, usually when Dizzy is my wing as we have so much fun.

[762_XC]

To each his own. I like DH's X mod, because it is a lot closer to SFB than the first gen Taldren X-tech.

It also offers a nice alternative to having to fly a lot of attrition units to compete in that era.

I wouldn't want to face it all server, but for a few years it makes things interesting.

[Dizzy]

If you are having a bad connection and either dropping a lot or causing your opponents to constantly drop, we ask that you stop playing for a while and try again later. If your connection continues to cause problems we ask that you confine yourself to an area where you will not constantly draft or be drafted by other players until you get a better connection.

::cough, cough, Mrogue, cough cough::

[Dizzy]

   I also generally also prefer 1 v 1 matches over fleet encounters as well, with a few notable exceptions, usually when Dizzy is my wing as we have so much fun.

Checks in the mail...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

To each his own. I like DH's X mod, because it is a lot closer to SFB than the first gen Taldren X-tech.

It also offers a nice alternative to having to fly a lot of attrition units to compete in that era.

I wouldn't want to face it all server, but for a few years it makes things interesting.

Perhaps, but I quit playing SFB when the X-ships and all the fancy ships came out.  I don't care for the heavily attrition unit nature of late era like t00l mentions, but I'd rather see the elimination of the casual tenders than the addition of more "Super Candy".   I guess I prefer the iron captains and wooden ships approach.  To each their own.

[el-Karnak]

Clarification:   CL X-ships, though they require X-points to be fielded, do not count as Capital ships for the purpose of Fleeting.

CL X-ships may escort DN, BCH, and CA X-ships.

CA X-ships DO count as capital ships for the purpose of fleeting.

This was never specified and was debated with the RMs.   2 of 3 agreed with this

Until Advanced Era rolls around in Y2293, X-ships are supposed to be rare items otherwise the game balance is thrown out of whack. Basically, when making dyna rules, you need to bump up by 2 classes any given X-ships in Late Era to get their true impact on the game.  This means any CL-class X-ship should be classifed as a BCH, any CA-class X-ship should be classified as a DN, any BCH-class X-ship is definitely a BB-class ship. Only when you are looking a DD-class X-ships and below can you safely not account for them in fleeting rules. 

In other words, all those CL-class X-ships and above should have been treated as min. BCHs which mean under the fleeting rule used in earlier eras in AoTK2, no fleeting was allowed. Otherwise, the game balance is definitely not SFB late era in nature.  It's more Advanced era and beyond to SFC3-style eras.

The only time you can start loosening up for X-ships and start the super-cheese fest fleeting wise is in Advanced Era where all those Middle Era and Late Era non-X-ships are gone from the shiplist.

Let's follow the SFB stream of the game on this issue like we do in other eras, not fight against the SFB stream and cause angst among a lot of players.  I never saw any mention that AoTK2 was gonna be an Advanced Era play in Late Era dyna cuz it's supposed to end in Y2286, not Y2296. Cuz Advanced Era game is what you have now. 

[Dizzy]

Part of what karnak said... and chuut. Basically, u enter 2282 and if u arnt flying X u arnt pvp competitive. So all the other stuff is pointless. Besides, we had CX's costing the same as a heavy and are better than BC's which costed more.

If they are rare, they shouldnt be able to fleet together and they should cost a pretty penny. Either that or restrict them more. Soemthing... I like flying the non-x ship releases in 82 and 83. With this new X tech, all that is gone.

Oh well... to each his own.

[FPF-DieHard]

um, guys . . . .  The X-ships are out for the last 2 days of the server.  Let it go.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Lets let it rest guys and put it in the realm of knowledge for the future.  It was implemented by the admin and will remain so for this server regardless, so lets just live with it.

The objections have been heard and noted.  If it is brought up again as an option that would be the time for further objections. 

[el-Karnak]

Lets let it rest guys and put it in the realm of knowledge for the future.  It was implemented by the admin and will remain so for this server regardless, so lets just live with it.

The objections have been heard and noted.  If it is brought up again as an option that would be the time for further objections. 

I have absolutely no objections that some people are forgetting Einstein's principle of relativity.  This thoery's interface was not implemented properly in the shiplist with regards to Late Era.

Like they say in S/W development. If it does not work, call it version 1.0. 

[Hexx]

Don't mind the Xboats, although I think the YFA's should b adjusted to be the same for almost all the ships
Most are better than the BCH's they replace- some aren't. In any event I think they let eberyone have a little more fun
at server end so..

[FPF-DieHard]

Don't mind the Xboats, although I think the YFA's should b adjusted to be the same for almost all the ships
Most are better than the BCH's they replace- some aren't. In any event I think they let eberyone have a little more fun
at server end so..

the FYAs were the SFB FYAs,  whick IMHO are tweakable

Should we have everyone's BCH come out at the same time to? (yes, I'm being sarcastic)

[Bonk]

unstickied...