Topic: New missions for AOTK2 bug report thread

[el-Karnak]

I think Dizzy has a good point about map sizes that is grounded substantially on past player experiences. In EEK scripts, this issue was dealt with early on in mission development before SG3 even.  I pretty much went with longer maps to add more room for the mission, but kept the stock width sizes.   The fact that no major groudswell arose from the playerbase arose to complain about the map sizes over the last 2 years plus was enough to tell me that I took the right approach that is equitable to all races. 

One key point about space combat is that you can warp away at any time. In SFCOP, the only way to warp is to exit the map vis-a-vis hit some magical WARP button like in SFC3 or other games, so you need to keep the width at stock params. for an easy warp-out exit.  Otherwise, you are fundamentally changing the environmental conditions of the game that may not meet the standards of accurate SFC combat.

Of course, in EEK GAW prototypes, I got warp working but I've never really had the desire to implement it in the standard EEK mission packs. Some people regard tac. warp as too "cheesy" and not SFC accurate. So, I left it out and kept the stock map width sizes.  But, I did put in programatically produced randomized map terrain cuz I like all the pretty pulsar lights, ion storms, wacky gas giants, etc., and I did not want to ever painstakingly draw out an humungously large list of maps.

[Dizzy]

This being the case then it doesnt really matter what size map it is, someone somewhere won't be happy.

Not true. Only the races/ships that enjoy large maps will always be happy. Those seeking smaller maps will always be unhappy.

I thank you for your concerns over large map size, but try to give them a go, you might like them. 

Sure, I'll play your missions using exclusively Ver Large Maps, but I wont like it. And I wont use them on my servers. I enjoy variety, and I think you are unfairly giving those that enjoy very large maps the advantage every single time they play your mission. It's not fair at all for those that enjoy smaller maps.

I hope somewhere here someone steps in with a tactical explanation on why it is so important for balance to have a variety of map sizes than exclusively very large.

[el-Karnak]

I hope somewhere here someone steps in with a tactical explanation on why it is so important for balance to have a variety of map sizes than exclusively very large.

I did above:

One key point about space combat is that you can warp away at any time. In SFCOP, the only way to warp is to exit the map vis-a-vis hit some magical WARP button like in SFC3 or other games, so you need to keep the width at stock params. for an easy warp-out exit.  Otherwise, you are fundamentally changing the environmental conditions of the game that may not meet the standards of accurate SFC combat.

[FPF-DieHard]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

[el-Karnak]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

So is tac. warp.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun warping around the map in those Andro. ships. I found out that if you tac.warp into a planet then you go BOOM!! I thought you would melt through the object like it was some space station.  I should have programmed in an emergency decel. upon getting to close to a stationary object.

[FPF-DieHard]

I hope somewhere here someone steps in with a tactical explanation on why it is so important for balance to have a variety of map sizes than exclusively very large.

Space = Big

Adapt your tactics.   Look at it this way, it is going to be very hard for somebody to run away from you once they are wounded  

The ED missions are too small, the GSA Medium map is probrably perfect.  Bottom line is it is too much work for her to change them at this time so it ain't getting done.

Bottom line, changing the size is not going to happen as

[FPF-DieHard]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

So is tac. warp.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun warping around the map in those Andro. ships. I found out that if you tac.warp into a planet then you go BOOM!! I thought you would melt through the object like it was some space station.  I should have programmed in an emergency decel. upon getting to close to a stationary object.

We are going to throw that in some day, just not for this server.  A late/lost era server with Andros is in the works.

I warped right into an ION Storm last night at misison start, was kinda funny at the time 

[Mr.Bad151]

Let me start by saying I love the missions.  I love doing the 2 on 2 and 3 on 3!  Even if I draw sucky feds as allies.. *mutters*  One thing that does bother me is the number of Maulers I run into.  I've fought maulers in 1 on 1 battles.  Maulers would never be caught flying solo, and rarely with a single escort.  I can see maulers showing up in the 3 on 3 battles.

Maybe this would be too hard to fix, or no one else considers it an issue, but I thought I would point it out.  Great job on the missions, I haven't seen all the different terrain types, but I can't wait!

[Dizzy]

Well, with you, DH and Tracey, being primarily from the Fed camp, I'm sure you dont see a problem whatsoever. Neither would I if I was playing Fed or ISC. I'd have a heyday with Very Large Maps. Mb we should hold the server back a week... or not use the missions?

And btw, this isnt an argument over philosophical ideals about how big space is. That has nothing to do with how ships fight within different size borders. If there wasnt a choice, there wouldnt be an argument. But there are. 5, if I'm correct.

[IAF Lyrkiller]

Leave the missions as is. I like them. I gives a variety of enviroments that was lacking in earlier servers.

And yes use the missions. Tracey has worked too hard not to use them.

just my 0.02 phg

[FPF-DieHard]

Mb we should hold the server back a week... or not use the missions?

That is not an option

[el-Karnak]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

So is tac. warp.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun warping around the map in those Andro. ships. I found out that if you tac.warp into a planet then you go BOOM!! I thought you would melt through the object like it was some space station.  I should have programmed in an emergency decel. upon getting to close to a stationary object.

We are going to throw that in some day, just not for this server.  A late/lost era server with Andros is in the works.

I warped right into an ION Storm last night at misison start, was kinda funny at the time 

I always kept ION storms near planets and moons. It's more realistic. 

You do realize that to enable tac. warp. you have to modify every mission used on the server.   I think the existing EEK packs already have the tac. warp built-in if you know how how to trigger them on.  *snicker*

Mb we should hold the server back a week... or not use the missions?

That is not an option

That's too bad. I was entertaining the thought of playing AOTK since you finally found some missions that come close to EEK standards on the dyna.  But, I can't play on missions with very large maps. Even as an ISC player, I think it's too unbalancing and won't take advantage.  But, since I am no longer in the scripting business and won't offer up new missions to solve the issue then I can't complain too much.

[CaptJosh]

I'd just like to point something out to everyone.

Excerpted from The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy...

        The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times over many years and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers.   
The introduction begins like this:   
   "Space," it says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just  peanuts to space. Listen..." and so on. (After a while the style settles down a bit and it begins to tell you  things you really need to know, like the fact that the fabulously beautiful planet Bethselamin is now so worried about the cumulative erosion by ten billion visiting tourists a year that any net imbalance between the amount you eat and the amount you excrete whilst on the planet is surgically removed from your bodyweight when you leave: so every time you go to the lavatoryit is vitally important to get a receipt.)   
   To be fair though, when confronted by the sheer enormity of distances between the stars, better minds than the one responsible for the Guide's introduction have faltered. Someinvite you to consider for a moment a peanut in Reading and a small walnut in Johannesburg, and other such dizzying concepts.
        The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into
the human imagination.   
        Even light, which travels so fast that it takes most races thousands of years to realize that it travels at all, takes time to journey between the stars. It takes eight minutes from the star Sol to the place where the Earth used to be, and four years more to arrive at Sol's nearest stellar neighbour, Alpha Proxima.   
        For light to reach the other side of the Galaxy, for it to reach Damogran for instance, takes rather longer: five hundred thousand
years.   
   The record for hitch hiking this distance is just under five years, but you don't get to see much on the way.   
   The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy says that if you hold a lungful of air you can survive in the total vacuum of space for about thirty seconds. However it goes on to say that what with space being the mind boggling size it is the chances of getting picked up by another ship within those thirty seconds are two to the power of two hundred and sixty-seven thousand seven hundred and nine to one against.


Get that? The maps are big because space is big.

Dizzy, Karnak, both of you just suck it up already. The map sizes are as they should be, since space is big and finding a ship or handfull of ships shouldn't be an easy thing to do. So quit whining. Karnak, your post basically just said, "If I can't have it my way, I'm taking my toys and going home." How old are you anyway? Four? If you don't like a server, you don't have to fly on it, but don't gripe long and loud about it. Particularly when you're just jumping on Dizzy's bandwagon.

As the song says, get over it.

[KBF-Kurok]

Id love to tell you how these new missions are unfortunatly i have yet to find any enemy in them.  Mayb a closer starting position?. Afer ten or so mins of hunting for an enemy it tends to get real boring.
ill report back again later.

[Hexx]

Finidng enemy (for me anyway) is easy
Just keep heading the direction the ship is pointing then fire off a recon drone.
'Course I am considerably more intelligent than most of you unwashed masses so I may
have something of a natural advantage..

[Hexx]

<Hexx whistles to himself while cutting everything but the funny line..>

... then I can't complain too much.

Uhmmm...

[SkyFlyer]

Karnak, your post basically just said, "If I can't have it my way, I'm taking my toys and going home."

Just to post my view on what karnak said... I read it as, "I have some missions that have tactical warp--you can use them if you want. I don't like the big map sizes, but I'm not making any more new missions to remedy that."

To me he is saying that he is going to complain about it, but other than what he has already, hers not going to do anything to fix it.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Id love to tell you how these new missions are unfortunatly i have yet to find any enemy in them.  Mayb a closer starting position?. Afer ten or so mins of hunting for an enemy it tends to get real boring.
ill report back again later.

Someone else had this problem as well. Can you tell me what mission it was, what hex, and most importantly, what ship you were flying?

[KBF-Kurok]

it was in an fd7k and a d5d. When i attacked neutral or gorn space nothing no enemy at all. In lyran space i ran all three patrols and  had no problem. found those ships no problem. I used probes my scanners and the "`" button and found nothing in any of them. It happened in all three of your enemy patrols. Also if i took an allied patrol and it supposidly had gorn in it i got nothing either.I say supposidly because the mission statment said it did  but I never saw one. as for hex numbers it has happened in several places. Ill write more later as i find more stuff.
 Now for that little wannabe HEXX i have forgotten more about this game than youll ever know and that still makes me three times smarter about it than youll ever be. so to you I say
STFUsnicker

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Thanks for that Kurok, very helpful. I think the problem is that given the parameters being used to create AI ships, in some cases it is not finding a match in the shiplist. I had always thought if it couldn't find a match, it would just create anything, apparently this is not the case. Very interesting. This also sheds light on some other things as well.