Topic: New missions for AOTK2 bug report thread

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

DieHard will be putting up some new missions for AOTK2 probably later today or this evening. These new missions will be replacing the ED patrols.

They all contain the following:

- Warp in on start up
- AI removal for PvP
- Medals and extra bonus prestige for PvP
- Very large size maps
- Improved stability for PvP
- Unique terrains for every single terrain type (6 Open space, 6 Asteroids, 6 Nebulas, 6 Black holes, Dustclouds and Shipping lanes)
- 6 human team slots (3 enemy, 3 allied)

There are 6 new missions, 3 allied patrols and 3 enemy patrols, with one each of 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 when no human oppenent is present.

They have been tested thoroughly in single player, and as much testing as we could do in multiplayer, but inevitably there are bound to be some bugs somewhere we've missed. Particularly we need to know the effects of slow connections with regard to warp in at start up, what kind of AI draws people are getting with this shiplist, what improvements can be made to the maps (start too far away, too close etc.), do the missions report the DV change correctly, and so on.

Please list any anomalies you find here, they may or may not be related to the mission script but any info is appreciated.

[KBF-Crim]

Awesome!

Thank you Tracy!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Aint she amazing gentlemen?

 

[C-Los]

What I've been waiting for.....As soon as they're up for DL, I'll be there !

Tracey what can I say.....

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Can't wait to see it!

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

Can't wait to see it!

-S'Cipio

Yeah you can, won'r be available until tonght 

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

I'm seeing so far up to a 33% variance in BPV for enemy AI (drafted a K-C7f BPV 202 with a F-DGX BPV 150). Is this acceptable or too much?

[FPF-DieHard]

I'm seeing so far up to a 33% variance in BPV for enemy AI (drafted a K-C7f BPV 202 with a F-DGX BPV 150). Is this acceptable or too much?

Most people fly Co-op, I don't have an issue with that.

[Hexx]

I'm seeing so far up to a 33% variance in BPV for enemy AI (drafted a K-C7f BPV 202 with a F-DGX BPV 150). Is this acceptable or too much?

Most people fly Co-op, I don't have an issue with that.

Not being a sad little girl I fly solo (I could have any wing I wanted...honest) and I don't have an issue
with the BPV draw I've seen either.

[Green]

- Warp in on start up

Works.  Kinda cool too ...

- AI removal for PvP

Works.

- Medals and extra bonus prestige for PvP

Works

- Very large size maps

Works ... not sure if that is a good thing though.  Had more then a few "hunt arounds" to find the AI.

- Improved stability for PvP

Works as far as I can tell

- Unique terrains for every single terrain type (6 Open space, 6 Asteroids, 6 Nebulas, 6 Black holes, Dustclouds and Shipping lanes)

Not sure if this is working.  Got some station assaults in open hexes...(I have the old version of the missions, so if they have been changed sicne then, nevermind)

- 6 human team slots (3 enemy, 3 allied)

Haven't been able to check it yet

On the 33% BPV variance, I believe it is too much.  Makes the pendulem swing from too easy to too hard.  20% is a complete guess that might be better since most people don't fly Coop most of the time...only those that ALWAYS seem to need a wingman (Bahahahahaah...oops...sorry).

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Numbers have dwindled too much to count on co-op often, so less variance would be better. The 20% suggested sounds better.

[FPF-DieHard]

Only the Patrols are TG Missions.   The assaults are still ED>

You guys think we are starting too far from each other?

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Thanks for the feedback Green.

A word about terrain types. Previously most missions were coded such that it wouldnt matter what Asteroid hex you took any particular mssion in, for that particular mission it used the same map for all asteroid hexes. There are six different types of asteroid hex, although up until now, we've only ever seen 5 of them. The same with nebulas (only 3) and black holes (all 6 were available). Additionally, the game also supports 6 different types of open space hexes, which have never been seen in the game at all as well as a shipping lane and a dustcloud hex. 27 different varieties of terrain types in all. These missions give a unqiue map for each terrain type, ie. they all contain 27 different maps.

Now, to actually see these maps in game though, you have to take the mission in a hex that has the corresponding terrain type. The Artifex map editor does not support all of these terrain types, and so we've never seen them. Once I get a copy of the map either from DH or J'inn, I will be manually editing it so that sprinjkled throughout the map are examples of all 27 terrain types, 11 of which have never been seen before. The hex map graphics are also different in most cases for these terrain types, and veterans of the game will notice the new ones quickly I would imagine as having never been seen before as well. These terrain types have been lying hidden and dormant within the game since its inception.

[Green]

These terrain types have been lying hidden and dormant within the game since its inception.

That should add something new to the game.  Thx.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

TG Enemy patrol mission, I drew an Klingon ally while flying as a Hydran. Is this a server setting or mission issue?

[SkyFlyer]

 You were probably fighting against a kittie right?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

BIG Kitties actually. DNH, BCH and a cruiser PF boat that I cant recall the designation of, vs. my DGX, the Klink D5-Lf and a Fed CLCf.

[SkyFlyer]

Sounds reasonable. The political tensions were probably higher with the kitties than the klinks... So the klinks hated the kitties more than the feds.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I didn't expect a klink ally when we are not alligned, but then what do I know about the inner workings of the game?

[KBF-Crim]

I didn't expect a klink ally when we are not alligned, but then what do I know about the inner workings of the game?

Funny part is...if everything is working right....since this is a three way ......it just might happan...

[SkyFlyer]

I didn't expect a klink ally when we are not alligned, but then what do I know about the inner workings of the game?

Well from the Klingons view of things, you are a friendlier race than the Lyrans are... So hes going to attack the more hostile race.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I didn't expect a klink ally when we are not alligned, but then what do I know about the inner workings of the game?

Well from the Klingons view of things, you are a friendlier race than the Lyrans are... So hes going to attack the more hostile race.

Not friendlier, just less of a threat 

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I just completed TG enemy patrol B where it was a 2v2 in Mirak hex 35,22. My AI wingmate was a mirak NCF! Talk about high tension. Also, near the end of the mission, my video got jumpy and the audio was full of scratches and clicks.

[Dizzy]

Tracey, I'd advise going against using all very large maps. This benefits some races and screws others. I'd like you to consider using primarily medium to large with the exception being few very large maps, plz.

[Riskyllama]

one bug i noticed on the warp in, was that a couple of times, i noticed mirak AIs vessels with fighters dropping them at the edge of the sector, about 50 or more clicks behind where the really cool ride comes to an end.

I also noticed (not sure who's map or which version it was) that fleet repair docks seem to be firing weapons off into nothing or at wacky ranges, like plasma at about a hundred from the nearest enemy...I dont know what you can do about that, I just thought you might like to know.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Thanks for all the feedback people, keep it coming 

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Missions have been recompiled and are about to be swapped out on the test server (DH will post a link soon). An issue with the missions not reporting back results hopefully has been corrected, plus the strength of the AI has been adjusted. The degree of variance is till the same, however, a limit has been placed on how much bigger the AI enemy ships can be compared with your own (the AI should not now be more than one hull class bigger than your own ship, although if the mission has difficulty finding a ship that matches, it may still on occasion but hopefully only very rarely, make something else.)

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

 

[Dizzy]

What about your missions all using very large maps? Are you going to change that?

[Green]

i noticed mirak AIs vessels with fighters dropping them at the edge of the sector, about 50 or more clicks behind where the really cool ride comes to an end.

Man, that's a good catch ... at least explains why the NCV AI I had w/ me was so slow to get fighters in on the match.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

What about your missions all using very large maps? Are you going to change that?

Thats not a bug, its a feature. What do you have against large maps?

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

i noticed mirak AIs vessels with fighters dropping them at the edge of the sector, about 50 or more clicks behind where the really cool ride comes to an end.

Man, that's a good catch ... at least explains why the NCV AI I had w/ me was so slow to get fighters in on the match.

Will try to fix this for the next recompile 

[Riskyllama]

I dont know if it was just my luck but it seems like alls I getting paired against was romulan maulers..I saw maybe 30 or so of them over 35 missions

[Braxton_RIP]

i noticed mirak AIs vessels with fighters dropping them at the edge of the sector, about 50 or more clicks behind where the really cool ride comes to an end.

Man, that's a good catch ... at least explains why the NCV AI I had w/ me was so slow to get fighters in on the match.

Its even worse if it is a PF Tender 

[C-Los]

After 3 hrs this morning...all seems fine to me as far as missions are concerned !!

Job Well Done !!

               

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Thankyou C-Los 

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

The new map is now on the server. Please try out some of the new terrain types, they are easy to recognise on the map.

[RFA-Wraith]

After 3 hrs this morning...all seems fine to me as far as missions are concerned !!

Job Well Done !!

               

Of course, shes an Aussie!!

[Dizzy]

Tracey, I saw some one of your asteroid maps. Had a rock spaced here or there very far apart. Refreshing to see some space between the usual clutter. But they arnt all like that, are they?

The Very Large Maps issue... Some races are better at short-range than others and need smaller maps to catch opponents and vice versa. The way you have it now favors one side and not the other. There is much more to be said in favor of having a variety of map sizes, but I've stated the most important reason.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

The Asteroid map in question is Asteroids1. There are 6 different asteroid maps, Asteroids 1 through 6. Generally speaking, the higher the number, the more difficult the terrain, so Asteroids1 is fairly easy and light on asteroids. If you want a challenge, try Asteroids6 or Nebula6. For the most part, this is also the first time I've seen these maps as well in game, and I've already found a few of them that could be improved. If you have any map ideas, by all means make suggestions. We have 27 different terrain types to play with.

Regarding large maps... space is big... very big in fact. The larger the map the more realistic it is. I appreciate your argument about some players having developed tactics particularly suited to small maps, but by your own argument then, some races are also disadvantaged by small maps as much as large maps, as you have claimed. This being the case then it doesnt really matter what size map it is, someone somewhere won't be happy.

In practice though, SFB used both a 'floating' map and a 'fixed' map. When using a floating map, at the end of each turn, all the ships would be moved back to the centre of the board, thus making a limitless sized map. The fixed map meant if you reached the edge, you could disengage. Tactics developed for small maps are not the only tactics available however. Boxing people into a corner was not something you did in SFB. Larger maps require that you use your weapons as they were intended, plasma ballet, sabre dancing etc. Use of terrain is also a critical feature, we have more than just rocks to contend with. Small map tactics can be adapted to larger maps quite easily (especially if there are ion storms around). I am sure a player of your calibre will have no trouble with this.

The only real disadvantage I can see to large maps, is that if you do have to fly off the map for some reason, it can take awhile to get there. Overall, however, large maps are better, more realistic, and reflect the fact that space is very big and where practically possible the game should try simulate the laws of physics. I thank you for your concerns over large map size, but try to give them a go, you might like them. 

[el-Karnak]

I think Dizzy has a good point about map sizes that is grounded substantially on past player experiences. In EEK scripts, this issue was dealt with early on in mission development before SG3 even.  I pretty much went with longer maps to add more room for the mission, but kept the stock width sizes.   The fact that no major groudswell arose from the playerbase arose to complain about the map sizes over the last 2 years plus was enough to tell me that I took the right approach that is equitable to all races. 

One key point about space combat is that you can warp away at any time. In SFCOP, the only way to warp is to exit the map vis-a-vis hit some magical WARP button like in SFC3 or other games, so you need to keep the width at stock params. for an easy warp-out exit.  Otherwise, you are fundamentally changing the environmental conditions of the game that may not meet the standards of accurate SFC combat.

Of course, in EEK GAW prototypes, I got warp working but I've never really had the desire to implement it in the standard EEK mission packs. Some people regard tac. warp as too "cheesy" and not SFC accurate. So, I left it out and kept the stock map width sizes.  But, I did put in programatically produced randomized map terrain cuz I like all the pretty pulsar lights, ion storms, wacky gas giants, etc., and I did not want to ever painstakingly draw out an humungously large list of maps.

[Dizzy]

This being the case then it doesnt really matter what size map it is, someone somewhere won't be happy.

Not true. Only the races/ships that enjoy large maps will always be happy. Those seeking smaller maps will always be unhappy.

I thank you for your concerns over large map size, but try to give them a go, you might like them. 

Sure, I'll play your missions using exclusively Ver Large Maps, but I wont like it. And I wont use them on my servers. I enjoy variety, and I think you are unfairly giving those that enjoy very large maps the advantage every single time they play your mission. It's not fair at all for those that enjoy smaller maps.

I hope somewhere here someone steps in with a tactical explanation on why it is so important for balance to have a variety of map sizes than exclusively very large.

[el-Karnak]

I hope somewhere here someone steps in with a tactical explanation on why it is so important for balance to have a variety of map sizes than exclusively very large.

I did above:

One key point about space combat is that you can warp away at any time. In SFCOP, the only way to warp is to exit the map vis-a-vis hit some magical WARP button like in SFC3 or other games, so you need to keep the width at stock params. for an easy warp-out exit.  Otherwise, you are fundamentally changing the environmental conditions of the game that may not meet the standards of accurate SFC combat.

[FPF-DieHard]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

[el-Karnak]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

So is tac. warp.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun warping around the map in those Andro. ships. I found out that if you tac.warp into a planet then you go BOOM!! I thought you would melt through the object like it was some space station.  I should have programmed in an emergency decel. upon getting to close to a stationary object.

[FPF-DieHard]

I hope somewhere here someone steps in with a tactical explanation on why it is so important for balance to have a variety of map sizes than exclusively very large.

Space = Big

Adapt your tactics.   Look at it this way, it is going to be very hard for somebody to run away from you once they are wounded  

The ED missions are too small, the GSA Medium map is probrably perfect.  Bottom line is it is too much work for her to change them at this time so it ain't getting done.

Bottom line, changing the size is not going to happen as

[FPF-DieHard]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

So is tac. warp.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun warping around the map in those Andro. ships. I found out that if you tac.warp into a planet then you go BOOM!! I thought you would melt through the object like it was some space station.  I should have programmed in an emergency decel. upon getting to close to a stationary object.

We are going to throw that in some day, just not for this server.  A late/lost era server with Andros is in the works.

I warped right into an ION Storm last night at misison start, was kinda funny at the time 

[Mr.Bad151]

Let me start by saying I love the missions.  I love doing the 2 on 2 and 3 on 3!  Even if I draw sucky feds as allies.. *mutters*  One thing that does bother me is the number of Maulers I run into.  I've fought maulers in 1 on 1 battles.  Maulers would never be caught flying solo, and rarely with a single escort.  I can see maulers showing up in the 3 on 3 battles.

Maybe this would be too hard to fix, or no one else considers it an issue, but I thought I would point it out.  Great job on the missions, I haven't seen all the different terrain types, but I can't wait!

[Dizzy]

Well, with you, DH and Tracey, being primarily from the Fed camp, I'm sure you dont see a problem whatsoever. Neither would I if I was playing Fed or ISC. I'd have a heyday with Very Large Maps. Mb we should hold the server back a week... or not use the missions?

And btw, this isnt an argument over philosophical ideals about how big space is. That has nothing to do with how ships fight within different size borders. If there wasnt a choice, there wouldnt be an argument. But there are. 5, if I'm correct.

[IAF Lyrkiller]

Leave the missions as is. I like them. I gives a variety of enviroments that was lacking in earlier servers.

And yes use the missions. Tracey has worked too hard not to use them.

just my 0.02 phg

[FPF-DieHard]

Mb we should hold the server back a week... or not use the missions?

That is not an option

[el-Karnak]

bottom line is it's not a bug, it's a Feature  

So is tac. warp.

I must admit, I had a lot of fun warping around the map in those Andro. ships. I found out that if you tac.warp into a planet then you go BOOM!! I thought you would melt through the object like it was some space station.  I should have programmed in an emergency decel. upon getting to close to a stationary object.

We are going to throw that in some day, just not for this server.  A late/lost era server with Andros is in the works.

I warped right into an ION Storm last night at misison start, was kinda funny at the time 

I always kept ION storms near planets and moons. It's more realistic. 

You do realize that to enable tac. warp. you have to modify every mission used on the server.   I think the existing EEK packs already have the tac. warp built-in if you know how how to trigger them on.  *snicker*

Mb we should hold the server back a week... or not use the missions?

That is not an option

That's too bad. I was entertaining the thought of playing AOTK since you finally found some missions that come close to EEK standards on the dyna.  But, I can't play on missions with very large maps. Even as an ISC player, I think it's too unbalancing and won't take advantage.  But, since I am no longer in the scripting business and won't offer up new missions to solve the issue then I can't complain too much.

[CaptJosh]

I'd just like to point something out to everyone.

Excerpted from The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy...

        The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times over many years and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers.   
The introduction begins like this:   
   "Space," it says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just  peanuts to space. Listen..." and so on. (After a while the style settles down a bit and it begins to tell you  things you really need to know, like the fact that the fabulously beautiful planet Bethselamin is now so worried about the cumulative erosion by ten billion visiting tourists a year that any net imbalance between the amount you eat and the amount you excrete whilst on the planet is surgically removed from your bodyweight when you leave: so every time you go to the lavatoryit is vitally important to get a receipt.)   
   To be fair though, when confronted by the sheer enormity of distances between the stars, better minds than the one responsible for the Guide's introduction have faltered. Someinvite you to consider for a moment a peanut in Reading and a small walnut in Johannesburg, and other such dizzying concepts.
        The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into
the human imagination.   
        Even light, which travels so fast that it takes most races thousands of years to realize that it travels at all, takes time to journey between the stars. It takes eight minutes from the star Sol to the place where the Earth used to be, and four years more to arrive at Sol's nearest stellar neighbour, Alpha Proxima.   
        For light to reach the other side of the Galaxy, for it to reach Damogran for instance, takes rather longer: five hundred thousand
years.   
   The record for hitch hiking this distance is just under five years, but you don't get to see much on the way.   
   The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy says that if you hold a lungful of air you can survive in the total vacuum of space for about thirty seconds. However it goes on to say that what with space being the mind boggling size it is the chances of getting picked up by another ship within those thirty seconds are two to the power of two hundred and sixty-seven thousand seven hundred and nine to one against.


Get that? The maps are big because space is big.

Dizzy, Karnak, both of you just suck it up already. The map sizes are as they should be, since space is big and finding a ship or handfull of ships shouldn't be an easy thing to do. So quit whining. Karnak, your post basically just said, "If I can't have it my way, I'm taking my toys and going home." How old are you anyway? Four? If you don't like a server, you don't have to fly on it, but don't gripe long and loud about it. Particularly when you're just jumping on Dizzy's bandwagon.

As the song says, get over it.

[KBF-Kurok]

Id love to tell you how these new missions are unfortunatly i have yet to find any enemy in them.  Mayb a closer starting position?. Afer ten or so mins of hunting for an enemy it tends to get real boring.
ill report back again later.

[Hexx]

Finidng enemy (for me anyway) is easy
Just keep heading the direction the ship is pointing then fire off a recon drone.
'Course I am considerably more intelligent than most of you unwashed masses so I may
have something of a natural advantage..

[Hexx]

<Hexx whistles to himself while cutting everything but the funny line..>

... then I can't complain too much.

Uhmmm...

[SkyFlyer]

Karnak, your post basically just said, "If I can't have it my way, I'm taking my toys and going home."

Just to post my view on what karnak said... I read it as, "I have some missions that have tactical warp--you can use them if you want. I don't like the big map sizes, but I'm not making any more new missions to remedy that."

To me he is saying that he is going to complain about it, but other than what he has already, hers not going to do anything to fix it.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Id love to tell you how these new missions are unfortunatly i have yet to find any enemy in them.  Mayb a closer starting position?. Afer ten or so mins of hunting for an enemy it tends to get real boring.
ill report back again later.

Someone else had this problem as well. Can you tell me what mission it was, what hex, and most importantly, what ship you were flying?

[KBF-Kurok]

it was in an fd7k and a d5d. When i attacked neutral or gorn space nothing no enemy at all. In lyran space i ran all three patrols and  had no problem. found those ships no problem. I used probes my scanners and the "`" button and found nothing in any of them. It happened in all three of your enemy patrols. Also if i took an allied patrol and it supposidly had gorn in it i got nothing either.I say supposidly because the mission statment said it did  but I never saw one. as for hex numbers it has happened in several places. Ill write more later as i find more stuff.
 Now for that little wannabe HEXX i have forgotten more about this game than youll ever know and that still makes me three times smarter about it than youll ever be. so to you I say
STFUsnicker

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Thanks for that Kurok, very helpful. I think the problem is that given the parameters being used to create AI ships, in some cases it is not finding a match in the shiplist. I had always thought if it couldn't find a match, it would just create anything, apparently this is not the case. Very interesting. This also sheds light on some other things as well.

[Hexx]

I'm hardly a wannabe Hexx, I'm 100% the real thing !

Wouldn't sweat it Tracey, at these guys ages it could be anything.
Kurok was probably watching ST:TMP and thought he was playing the game..

[KBFLordKrueg]

it was in an fd7k and a d5d. When i attacked neutral or gorn space nothing no enemy at all. In lyran space i ran all three patrols and  had no problem. found those ships no problem. I used probes my scanners and the "`" button and found nothing in any of them. It happened in all three of your enemy patrols. Also if i took an allied patrol and it supposidly had gorn in it i got nothing either.I say supposidly because the mission statment said it did  but I never saw one. as for hex numbers it has happened in several places. Ill write more later as i find more stuff.
 Now for that little wannabe HEXX i have forgotten more about this game than youll ever know and that still makes me three times smarter about it than youll ever be. so to you I say
STFUsnicker

I was having this problem with the Enemy Patrol B a lot. The "A" and "C" missions seemed to work fine.
I was flying in the central neutral zone while experiancing this.

[FPF-DieHard]

Um, it's not an option because we ain't waiting  

[Dizzy]

Get that? The maps are big because space is big.

Capt. Josh, why is it you remind me so much of this person?  http://www.pcpowerweb.com/flashfiles/Support%20stfu.swf Your stupid rant has nothing to do with what I'm explaining. It goes to show u have no concept wtf you are talking about.

It's been a while since I handed one out, so here's a BIG...

STFU

[FPF-DieHard]

Mine's bigger 

STFU

[Dizzy]

Only because u have to use magnifying glasses.

Well, when the underpowered Gorn and the phaser challenged Roms discover every mission has very large maps... too bad. I'm done championing their cause. It's too bad too, lobbyists actually work in this community, but they just dont read these kinds of threads.

[SkyFlyer]

TG when there is no enemy ship in the mission, couldn't you just leave and that would be the end of the mission?

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

TG when there is no enemy ship in the mission, couldn't you just leave and that would be the end of the mission?

It will be fixed in the next recompile

[SkyFlyer]

And win I mean.

[el-Karnak]

Dizzy, Karnak, both of you just suck it up already. The map sizes are as they should be, since space is big and finding a ship or handfull of ships shouldn't be an easy thing to do. So quit whining. Karnak, your post basically just said, "If I can't have it my way, I'm taking my toys and going home." How old are you anyway? Four? If you don't like a server, you don't have to fly on it, but don't gripe long and loud about it. Particularly when you're just jumping on Dizzy's bandwagon.

As the song says, get over it.

In other words, no one is allow to offer a difference of opinion on missions otherwise they'll get shouted down.  It's too bad that the one thing about this community that drives away techies is still prevalent. 

Only because u have to use magnifying glasses.

Well, when the underpowered Gorn and the phaser challenged Roms discover every mission has very large maps... too bad. I'm done championing their cause. It's too bad too, lobbyists actually work in this community, but they just dont read these kinds of threads.

Lobbyists have always worked in this community. 

Just to post my view on what karnak said... I read it as, "I have some missions that have tactical warp--you can use them if you want. I don't like the big map sizes, but I'm not making any more new missions to remedy that."

To me he is saying that he is going to complain about it, but other than what he has already, hers not going to do anything to fix it.

Yep.  Just wanted to see if things would change, and got the expected answer from DH. Same attitude as shown for SG4.

That's why I stop scripting.  It's never worth the aggravation....

[Hexx]

<coughs discreelty>

Uhmm Karnak?

I took a shot too...

All I ask for is a *little* recognition...

[KBFLordKrueg]

Ok...back to the subject of this thread...
On the enemy patrol B and A missions, one drone from each rack is being lost, even if you don't fire them. Noticed this in first in a D5L and then a D5D. The Enemy Patrol C didn't seem to do that, nor do the Allied patrols.

[el-Karnak]

<coughs discreelty>

Uhmm Karnak?

I took a shot too...

All I ask for is a *little* recognition...

Gets out magnifying glass. Oh!! It's Hexx...

Hi Hexx!!  How's it going!!

[FPF-DieHard]

Ok...back to the subject of this thread...
On the enemy patrol B and A missions, one drone from each rack is being lost, even if you don't fire them. Noticed this in first in a D5L and then a D5D. The Enemy Patrol C didn't seem to do that, nor do the Allied patrols.

Very interesting, some of the ED missions do the same.

TG?  ANy ideas?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Only because u have to use magnifying glasses.

Well, when the underpowered Gorn and the phaser challenged Roms discover every mission has very large maps... too bad. I'm done championing their cause. It's too bad too, lobbyists actually work in this community, but they just dont read these kinds of threads.

When your main tactic is to go spd 31 in your Romulan DNH forcing the enemy DN's to disengage b/c they have to stay at high spd to avoid a plasma enema, I suppose that having a large map is harmful to your strategy too, eh?

[Dfly]

In the mission B package, my AI Carrier had his fighters dropped off 52 away from our warped into position.  It took them a few minutes at speed 18 to catch up to the battle.

In another one, vs a base assault, I was surprised to find out I was against the biggest baddest base out there in the game today, but I should have figured on the test server being most likely in late era or some such, my bad.

On another issue, I wish I had noted which mission, but I did get a 2 Klingon draw in a Romulan space, while Lyran.  I know it was a patrol, just not sure A, B, or C.  The hex was below a Klingon base in Romulan territory, so I am guessing I drew from their base instead of the romulan base?

Only flew in one of the new maps so far, but reallly looking forward to flying in some of the others.  As far as space size, ya it is big to get off the map, and this will hurt those who love to fight near a border for the old "I am too damaged so I am outa here, of course that is unless I happen to have damaged you more" tactic (used my most at one time or other, but hey it is a valid tactic, np here).  It may actually force you to decide to either fight, or disengage, and if you are disengaging, as suggested in rules (I think) you are to tell the opponent, and leave, thus not waisting his time.

Since everyone seems to have a view on what Karnak said, here is my 1.3 Canadian cents.  I beleive he was just stating that he cant gripe or complain since he actually did not do the missions or maps(and wont be), so he will fly what is there when he flies.  This is what I got out  of his words.

Josh, I get your message about how big space is, and I have read the series of books too.  IMO I think perhaps most did not care to read through it when you coulda perhaps just stated that you agree with big maps and had the effect you may have been looking for.

TY all for reading this, and I await to see what other stuff will be conceived of my words eheh.

[Dizzy]

When your main tactic is to go spd 31 in your Romulan DNH forcing the enemy DN's to disengage b/c they have to stay at high spd to avoid a plasma enema, I suppose that having a large map is harmful to your strategy too, eh?

Valid tactic. There are many others. You cant tell me that 'Corner Trapping' inst a tactic as well. I wont be minding VLM's this server, I'm flying for the cats.

[CaptJosh]

The fighters being dropped during warp in has been fixed already. I tested it myself. My AI allies did not drop fighters/PFs until within range of the targets. It would have been a valid arguement last week, but the Missions as af the 17th fixed that.

I guess what I'm saying about the complaints is that in war, more often than not, you don't pick your battlefield, your battlefield picks you. At that point, adapt or die. I think Sun Tzu put it best in The Art of War: In difficult ground, press on. In encircled ground, devise stratagems. In death ground, fight.

As for why I hollered at Dizzy, he was the one who drove Tracey away last time. Frankly, I'd rather have Tracey around. She's smart, funny, arguably the best coder we have around, and I'd put real money on her lookin' a damn sight better better than Dizzy and Karnak.

[Dizzy]

The fighters being dropped during warp in has been fixed already. I tested it myself. My AI allies did not drop fighters/PFs until within range of the targets. It would have been a valid arguement last week, but the Missions as af the 17th fixed that.

I guess what I'm saying about the complaints is that in war, more often than not, you don't pick your battlefield, your battlefield picks you. At that point, adapt or die. I think Sun Tzu put it best in The Art of War: In difficult ground, press on. In encircled ground, devise stratagems. In death ground, fight.

As for why I hollered at Dizzy, he was the one who drove Tracey away last time. Frankly, I'd rather have Tracey around. She's smart, funny, arguably the best coder we have around, and I'd put real money on her lookin' a damn sight better better than Dizzy and Karnak.

Unless you care to quote Tracey on her blaming me for while she left, you can stfu now, thanls.

[FPF-DieHard]

The fighters being dropped during warp in has been fixed already. I tested it myself. My AI allies did not drop fighters/PFs until within range of the targets. It would have been a valid arguement last week, but the Missions as af the 17th fixed that.

I guess what I'm saying about the complaints is that in war, more often than not, you don't pick your battlefield, your battlefield picks you. At that point, adapt or die. I think Sun Tzu put it best in The Art of War: In difficult ground, press on. In encircled ground, devise stratagems. In death ground, fight.

As for why I hollered at Dizzy, he was the one who drove Tracey away last time. Frankly, I'd rather have Tracey around. She's smart, funny, arguably the best coder we have around, and I'd put real money on her lookin' a damn sight better better than Dizzy and Karnak.

Unless you care to quote Tracey on her blaming me for while she left, you can stfu now, thanls.

I blaimed you for that, he;s quoting me

[Dizzy]

I blaimed you for that, he;s quoting me

So you are spreading lies to peeps about me behind my back?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

When your main tactic is to go spd 31 in your Romulan DNH forcing the enemy DN's to disengage b/c they have to stay at high spd to avoid a plasma enema, I suppose that having a large map is harmful to your strategy too, eh?

Valid tactic. There are many others. You cant tell me that 'Corner Trapping' inst a tactic as well. I wont be minding VLM's this server, I'm flying for the cats.

Too bad you failed to mention how the large maps will negate it in at least a small way....

[Julin Eurthyr]

Tracey:

You cited SFB's "Floating maps", along with the traditional vastness of space, as the rationales for your map sizes.

However, the original map sizes were determined to balance 2 factors, the above vs. the fact that, theoretically, a captain can "disengage" at will by accelerating to high speeds, or by increasing the separation to such a point that they can't track each other anymore.

While your maps enhance the need to run for the "disengagement by losing tracking" method, there is no means to "readily" disengage by acceleration (short of a long stay at combat speeds).

IIRC, one of SFB's floating map balances was the fact that, after spending 1 turn at your maximum attainable speed, you can elect to disengage instantly.

[Dizzy]

The map issue has been resolved. For the most part, all server admins I know of have agreed with Tracey's recent scripting ideas. For AOTK2, we have Very Large Maps. Like it, live it, love it.

[Dizzy]

When your main tactic is to go spd 31 in your Romulan DNH forcing the enemy DN's to disengage b/c they have to stay at high spd to avoid a plasma enema, I suppose that having a large map is harmful to your strategy too, eh?

Valid tactic. There are many others. You cant tell me that 'Corner Trapping' inst a tactic as well. I wont be minding VLM's this server, I'm flying for the cats.

Too bad you failed to mention how the large maps will negate it in at least a small way....

Not in so many words, no, but corner trapping will no longer be much of an option for the time being. The fact of the matter is that a variety of maps is what is most suitable for everyone because tactics change from one map size to the next, and that is indisputable.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I have to say I prefer a variety from mission to mission, but it isn't a make or break point with me, just a preference.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Not in so many words, no, but corner trapping will no longer be much of an option for the time being. The fact of the matter is that a variety of maps is what is most suitable for everyone because tactics change from one map size to the next, and that is indisputable.

Yet, you only ask for your small maps.  No mention of variety until now...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Not in so many words, no, but corner trapping will no longer be much of an option for the time being. The fact of the matter is that a variety of maps is what is most suitable for everyone because tactics change from one map size to the next, and that is indisputable.

Yet, you only ask for your small maps.  No mention of variety until now...

Actually Bear in all fairness.....

In his first post Dizzy said this:

Tracey, I'd advise going against using all very large maps. This benefits some races and screws others. I'd like you to consider using primarily medium to large with the exception being few very large maps, plz.

And on page 2 Dizzy posted this:

The Very Large Maps issue... Some races are better at short-range than others and need smaller maps to catch opponents and vice versa. The way you have it now favors one side and not the other. There is much more to be said in favor of having a variety of map sizes, but I've stated the most important reason.

So he has always propossed a variety.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Bastard!!!

Apologizes to you, Dizzy.

[el-Karnak]

As for why I hollered at Dizzy, he was the one who drove Tracey away last time. Frankly, I'd rather have Tracey around. She's smart, funny, arguably the best coder we have around, and I'd put real money on her lookin' a damn sight better better than Dizzy and Karnak.

Actually, she's the only coder you have left.  The rest have burnt out or gotten bored or just had it with the constant sniping that goes on around here. Sometimes, I get the impression that it's absolutely impossible to have any meaningful debate in this community without internet tribalism rearing.   As long as everyone sticks to the facts the better teh debate will be. You can ditch the pin-up posters and the teddie yadda, yaddas though if you want to debate anything and be taken seriously.

Since everyone seems to have a view on what Karnak said, here is my 1.3 Canadian cents.  I beleive he was just stating that he cant gripe or complain since he actually did not do the missions or maps(and wont be), so he will fly what is there when he flies.  This is what I got out  of his words.

Merci pour votre sagacious perceptions.  In case anyone is interested to know IF NOT STOP READING!!:  I know exactly what I want out of a dyna missions pack.  In the past, I was fortunate enough to create the mission scripts that I like which bends towards SFB realism.  I've never concerned myself with what the Admins liked. After all, they don't pay very well and they can be quite insufferably annoying and overly domineering sometimes.   If I see what I like then I'll play, but I am not inclined to make any new missions or fix any existing issues. So, I've said what I have to say about the AoTK missions and let the chips fall the way they may.

I blaimed you for that, he;s quoting me

   Oh well, +karma for being candid, I guess.....

[el-Karnak]

When your main tactic is to go spd 31 in your Romulan DNH forcing the enemy DN's to disengage b/c they have to stay at high spd to avoid a plasma enema, I suppose that having a large map is harmful to your strategy too, eh?

Valid tactic. There are many others. You cant tell me that 'Corner Trapping' inst a tactic as well. I wont be minding VLM's this server, I'm flying for the cats.

Too bad you failed to mention how the large maps will negate it in at least a small way....

Not in so many words, no, but corner trapping will no longer be much of an option for the time being. The fact of the matter is that a variety of maps is what is most suitable for everyone because tactics change from one map size to the next, and that is indisputable.

If yer corner trapped, it means it's time to warp-out anyway.  Don't run away so much next time...   Making a larger map just prolongs the chase. 

[FPF-DieHard]

I blaimed you for that, he;s quoting me

So you are spreading lies to peeps about me behind my back?

I call things as I see them

[el-Karnak]

I blaimed you for that, he;s quoting me

So you are spreading lies to peeps about me behind my back?

I call things as I see them

Next time, pour yourself a big glass of STFU, count to 10, talk a walk,  and see if you are right first.  Also, don't ever post when yer mad.  I'm sure everyone knows that it's actually is a good principle to apply at work with emails too; so, try it here.  I think it actually works sometimes.

[FPF-DieHard]

I blaimed you for that, he;s quoting me

So you are spreading lies to peeps about me behind my back?

I call things as I see them

Next time, pour yourself a big glass of STFU, count to 10, talk a walk,  and see if you are right first.  Also, don't ever post when yer mad.  I'm sure everyone knows that it's actually is a good principle to apply at work with emails too; so, try it here.  I think it actually works sometimes.

Put is I never post when mad, I'd never post . . .

[Matsukasi]

Put is I never post when mad, I'd never post . . .

He said ' mad ' , not ' horny ' you dork. 

[Bonk]

I know nothing, I hear nothing, I see nothing! 

http://www.webundies.com/ea71b652.htm   

[Dizzy]

A BONK Sighting! Call the Press!

[Mr.Bad151]

The logic of space being huge, justifying large maps, is flawed in SFC.  While 3D space is indeed huge, SFC uses a fixed 2D space.  The difference between the 2 becomes exponentially (infinitely) larger as you increase the size of "space".  In a fixed 2D space there might be times when the area you have to defend/attack is rather small, IE the sensor gap between 2 starbases, a gap in an asteroid field.  While such places might be rare, they would exist in 2D space where they wouldn't in 3D space.

I agree, the majority of maps should be large/very large, but there should be some smaller maps as well.  Be careful about using real life to justify something with artificial rules.  While it's not a huge deal to me, even tho I am a Gorn player, if people are against small maps because of "real life" examples of space.. perhaps they need to rethink it.

[Dizzy]

Well said.

[CaptJosh]

A thought. Any map with an object that has a noticeable gravity well should probably be larger than empty maps.  Gravity wells require extra distance from the object in order to be able to engage warp drive. Maps with Black Holes would of necessity be huge, nebula maps would tend to be large just due to needing to get clear to warp out. Maps with stars would need to be somewhat large, though not as big as a black hole map. Planet maps where the star is away some some direction off the main combat area. Asteroid maps could vary depending on density of the rocks, and empty space maps could be smaller just because there's no immediate gravity well to attain sufficient distance from to warp out.

[Dizzy]

Gravity wells, Josh??? STFU!

This is about 'corner trapping' tactics. It will go away using exclusively VLMs.

Gravity wells... lol

[KBF-Kurok]

Tracey a little up date to what i posted earlier. The same thing happened while flying rom. If the mission briefing said gorn  were in the battle  they were a no show. Lyrans were no problem. This thime i was a Romulan and flew three different classes of ship.to see if i could get them to show up. Im going to go back and see if i have the same problem with the feds or hydrans Ill keep you posted.

[FPF-DieHard]

Tracey a little up date to what i posted earlier. The same thing happened while flying rom. If the mission briefing said gorn  were in the battle  they were a no show. Lyrans were no problem. This thime i was a Romulan and flew three different classes of ship.to see if i could get them to show up. Im going to go back and see if i have the same problem with the feds or hydrans Ill keep you posted.

TG, we need to expand the range of what the scripts will draft, add these to the next batch.

I guess I'm we're going to hav eto do a 2263 test to see if this gets worse with fewer ships available.

[Hexx]

Like what 95-99% of the servers we've had have had smaller maps.

STFU about it.
Learn new tactics

[el-Karnak]

A thought. Any map with an object that has a noticeable gravity well should probably be larger than empty maps.  Gravity wells require extra distance from the object in order to be able to engage warp drive. Maps with Black Holes would of necessity be huge, nebula maps would tend to be large just due to needing to get clear to warp out. Maps with stars would need to be somewhat large, though not as big as a black hole map. Planet maps where the star is away some some direction off the main combat area. Asteroid maps could vary depending on density of the rocks, and empty space maps could be smaller just because there's no immediate gravity well to attain sufficient distance from to warp out.

A lot of good points here.  Varying the warp eligible exit distances of mission script maps based on terrain makes mucho sense to me.  Then admins. can really influence PvP game styles on the dyna map by deliberately placing the "gravity-well"-type terrain where they want them.

[KBF-Kurok]

ok things seem to work fine if i attack the feds or Hydrans. Like the new missions so far maps are a little big for my taste but that is cool. I look foward to seeing them in actual combat and see how people react to them should be fun.

[SkyFlyer]

I would like a variety of small and large maps...

[Riskyllama]

Being quite young in his community and barely knowing my way around the game much less the game's engine, is it possible to tie muiltiple options to each other?  Say have the option of a large and small map when theres the chance people may be drafted, so that whichever captain is quicker can "choose the field of battle." I was also wondering if anyone knew whether or not the frequency of maulers has dropped yet?

It might mix things up a little bit it might make things rather interesting indeed if it were possible.
Alright I've got my fire retardant suit ready. Flame On guys.

PS As a side note for Tracey, I appreciate you working your butt off to deliver up these really cool maps, frankly they're really cool I applaud your hard work and determination. Variety would be nice, but right now I'll take what I can get.

[CaptJosh]

THe map is generated at the time of script load. There is no way for it to be chosen.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

   

Back to bug reports as the thread title suggests. I just finished TG enemy patrol B mission where my hydran ally dropped his fighters right away about range 50 behind us after warp and the little buggers (my allies) shot at me while I was still in warp, but not after. This reminded me that I had been shot at by the fighters once before while warping in.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

oh and the klink yards were half full of D7Ts still and the Fed yards were mostly DDLs and DNLs.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Tracey:

You cited SFB's "Floating maps", along with the traditional vastness of space, as the rationales for your map sizes.

However, the original map sizes were determined to balance 2 factors, the above vs. the fact that, theoretically, a captain can "disengage" at will by accelerating to high speeds, or by increasing the separation to such a point that they can't track each other anymore.

While your maps enhance the need to run for the "disengagement by losing tracking" method, there is no means to "readily" disengage by acceleration (short of a long stay at combat speeds).

IIRC, one of SFB's floating map balances was the fact that, after spending 1 turn at your maximum attainable speed, you can elect to disengage instantly.

Yes, this is very true. Perhaps we can implement this in future missions by allowing a player ship a "one-time only" go to warp (and not then be able to drop out of warp) effectively disengaging from the map. This however would then allow any ship just about to disengage at any time, even as they are about to die which really isnt very practical. So... perhaps only allow this tactic to work IF the warp engines are not damaged, or perhaps make it a probability based on the percentage damage to warp engines that warp for disengaging is available, or some other constraint (eg. each time the warp engines are damaged, there is a percentage change the main energisers will go offline). Something to think about and might make for a good discussion.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Like what 95-99% of the servers we've had have had smaller maps.

STFU about it.
Learn new tactics

I totally agree....

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

 

Back to bug reports as the thread title suggests. I just finished TG enemy patrol B mission where my hydran ally dropped his fighters right away about range 50 behind us after warp and the little buggers (my allies) shot at me while I was still in warp, but not after. This reminded me that I had been shot at by the fighters once before while warping in.

This will be fixed next recompile. The warp in part of the script has now been moved to after team relations are set which signifies when all teams are setup. In theory then, the warp in wont start until after all teams are setup and we shouldnt see any possible warp in lag (although this doesnt seem to be much of a problem anyway). Also, at the start of the mission all the AI ships have had their AI fighter officer switched off, which is then switched back on after the ship has finished waroing in. This should stop fighters from being dropped early (assuming the API function for this does as it is supposed to).

[Dfly]

From Josh on page 3 after my posting of a problem in Patrol B missions.

The fighters being dropped during warp in has been fixed already. I tested it myself. My AI allies did not drop fighters/PFs until within range of the targets. It would have been a valid arguement last week, but the Missions as af the 17th fixed that.

Message from Tracy middle(actually end when I posted this) about the fighter problem I posted.

 

Back to bug reports as the thread title suggests. I just finished TG enemy patrol B mission where my hydran ally dropped his fighters right away about range 50 behind us after warp and the little buggers (my allies) shot at me while I was still in warp, but not after. This reminded me that I had been shot at by the fighters once before while warping in.

This will be fixed next recompile. The warp in part of the script has now been moved to after team relations are set which signifies when all teams are setup. In theory then, the warp in wont start until after all teams are setup and we shouldnt see any possible warp in lag (although this doesnt seem to be much of a problem anyway). Also, at the start of the mission all the AI ships have had their AI fighter officer switched off, which is then switched back on after the ship has finished waroing in. This should stop fighters from being dropped early (assuming the API function for this does as it is supposed to).

JOSH<  Please feel free to keep putting up ideas for missions etc, but IF the actual message is not intended for you at all, but only for Tracy as this posting was and should be due to the TOPIC, please bud out.  It seems clear that what you posted about my problem I posted here is totally invalid.

[FPF-DieHard]

Back on topic.    TG, tak a look at this.

Ran Met Allied patrols A B and C w/ a Kling ship in home space no ai draw mission complete 150 pp also happened in neutral space between Rom Kling Gorn same thing happened with with A B C enemy patrols.They all worked fine when in an allied hex or enemy hex.

[KBF-Kurok]

im not seeing any gorn except in the base assults and such. in any of the six new missions. Whule attacking the Lyran  they work great. BTW the missions are ending with around 9 seconds run and a 150 pp point pay out.

[FPF-DieHard]

What ship are you flying when you attack the GORN?   What Race?

We need a Kitty to try the same thing..

Please, attack all of you enemies and make sure this works.  Wee need to know where the bugs are so we can fix them.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

On my way will report back soon.

[Braxton_RIP]

im not seeing any gorn except in the base assults and such. in any of the six new missions. Whule attacking the Lyran  they work great. BTW the missions are ending with around 9 seconds run and a 150 pp point pay out.

I think that is the server hinting that you need to attack the Lyrans LOL

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Limited report:

Ran one Patrol A vs Hydrans that seemed to work ok, but had the lost connection to the server messageupon exit and the server did not reappear on my campaign selector  

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

im not seeing any gorn except in the base assults and such. in any of the six new missions. Whule attacking the Lyran  they work great. BTW the missions are ending with around 9 seconds run and a 150 pp point pay out.

I think that is the server hinting that you need to attack the Lyrans LOL

But then they wouldn't get to reuse all those "Turkey Shoot" emblems from the origional AOTK now would they?

Oh by the way Agave designed those badges, just figured you guys would want to know that 

<Snicker>

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

im not seeing any gorn except in the base assults and such. in any of the six new missions. Whule attacking the Lyran  they work great. BTW the missions are ending with around 9 seconds run and a 150 pp point pay out.

I was testing this myself as well. In fact its not just the Klingons who arent seeing Gorn AI... no one is getting Gorn AI at all, either as allies or enemies. The good news though is that the reason for this has finally been discovered. New missions coming in about an hour.

[Hexx]

im not seeing any gorn except in the base assults and such. in any of the six new missions. Whule attacking the Lyran  they work great. BTW the missions are ending with around 9 seconds run and a 150 pp point pay out.

. no one is getting Gorn AI at all, either as allies or enemies. The good news though is that the reason for this has finally been discovered.

What are... Ships that even the AI considers useless?

[CaptJosh]

<Alex Trebek> Ooh. Sorry. That's not the answer we were looking for. (beepbeepbeepbeepbeep, beepbeepbeepbeepbeep) And that sound means that's the end of round two. And Hexx, I'm sorry, but with a negative dollar amount, you won't be able to participate in Final Jeopardy...

[KBF-Kurok]

things seem to be working ok now. allied patrol a&c seem to like the gorn dne but every thing else seems to be cool. I was in a D7c if it matters.
 Great job on the new missions and traking down the problem there Tracey. I look foward to more new ones in the future.

[GDA-Agave]

Ran 2 missions with the Gorn CV, TG mission A & TG mission B.   Both times, when I launched the G18 ftrs I had, the mission kicked me out to desktop.

Has this particular one been reported yet?

Also, I don't how important this is.   Several times during a TG mission (not sure which one), when I had my power settings set as 3 speed, 2 weapons the mission kept automatically pushing me back up to full possible speed while reloading my weapons.   I could not decrease speed until I changed my weapon power setting to 4.    Very strange?   Any thoughts?

[FPF-DieHard]

Ran 2 missions with the Gorn CV, TG mission A & TG mission B.   Both times, when I launched the G18 ftrs I had, the mission kicked me out to desktop.

Has this particular one been reported yet?

Also, I don't how important this is.   Several times during a TG mission (not sure which one), when I had my power settings set as 3 speed, 2 weapons the mission kept automatically pushing me back up to full possible speed while reloading my weapons.   I could not decrease speed until I changed my weapon power setting to 4.    Very strange?   Any thoughts?

you didn't run the installer, don't lie, I know you didn't.

[GDA-Agave]

Ran 2 missions with the Gorn CV, TG mission A & TG mission B.   Both times, when I launched the G18 ftrs I had, the mission kicked me out to desktop.

Has this particular one been reported yet?

Also, I don't how important this is.   Several times during a TG mission (not sure which one), when I had my power settings set as 3 speed, 2 weapons the mission kept automatically pushing me back up to full possible speed while reloading my weapons.   I could not decrease speed until I changed my weapon power setting to 4.    Very strange?   Any thoughts?

you didn't run the installer, don't lie, I know you didn't.

I presume you mean the final installer?   I'll run that to see if it solves the problem.

These mission were run before the new lists you just posted a few hours ago.