Topic: AoTK II General Concepts . . .

[KAT J'inn]

WARNING   . . . The following can be changed on a whim.


I.   Concept

After years of a cold war the discovery of dilithium rich planetoids deep within the neutral zone have caused political chaos.  The Feline races, Kzinti, Lyran and the now in charge Felines of the ISC, have seen an opportunity to bring feline order to the quadrant.

Suddenly, and without much warning a hasty alliance was formed between the Feline Powers.  Soon thereafter a Large Feline Assult Force entered the Neutral Zone and attempted to take the five planetoids.

All out war ensued.



II.  Map

You will note that the old neutral zone in still in place.  Along with the old border stations.   The political landscape changed quickly and new borders were never formed or protected.

In the center of the map is the Dellanus Asteroid Expanse.  A huge area of asteroids.   Deep within this expanse are the 5 Dilithium rich planetoids.   Their value to your Empire cannot be understated.
 


III. Victory Conditions

There will be no VC Points.  No VC Rounds.   There will be one winner.   No second place no third place.   It is possible that there will be no clear winner.  If this is the case, I will declare a Winner By Minor Advantage at the end of the server.

To be the Clear Winner you side must have the following in place when the server ends.

1.   One planet under your control taken from each enemy  (total of two planets)

-and-

2.   Three Planetoids under your control

-and- 

3.   A valid LOS to all of the above.


IV.   GANGING UP, NAPs, ETC.

100% Legal.   The team that is winning during the war should expect to be attacked from two fronts.   However, given the VCs, NAPs cannot make one side win as in order to win you must attack and take territory from both enemies.  All a NAP can do is prevent there from being a clear winner.

In order to be the Clear Winner of this server your team will have to be very very strong.


V. LOS. 

 More to come but based on bases.   Deepstrikers . . . start your warp drives!

Also, the last hour of the server will be hell with a massive push on LOS.  Expect it.  Plan for it.

VI.  Bases

They go boom.

VII.  OoB


Each team (not RACE!) can have 7 points of Heavy Metal on the board at any one time.

BCH = 2 points
DNs = 3 points
CVAs = 4 points

All you look at is the ships.  No need to assign pilots.

Any pilot who dies in a Capital Ship is banned from flying any Capital Ship for 24 hours.



THIS IS BETA!!

[Mog]

Interesting. Might just work the way you want it to.

[KBF-Kurok]

this does  sound promising and fun.

[Hexx]

About the whole "dying in a capital ship" thing...

[FPF-DieHard]

About the whole "dying in a capital ship" thing...

It's 30 day server, plenty of opportunites for you to get killed 

J'inn forgot to mention 2263 start, 1.5 days per game year

[Capt Jeff]

Sorry, been out of the loop for almost two weeks due to a fried modem during thunderstorm.

Please list each side's name and at least one person for each side (RM) that I can use as a moderator, and I'll get some private forums up at sfc2.net.

Thanks 

[Dizzy]

About the whole "dying in a capital ship" thing...

It's 30 day server, plenty of opportunites for you to get killed 

J'inn forgot to mention 2263 start, 1.5 days per game year

i HOPE YOU ARE USING A CRAP LOAD OF TURNS PER YEAR! oops caps.

Waiting more than 6 minutes for a shipyard cycle to spit out your ship is way too painful. Boring. Not that I ever plan to lose my ship...

But with 7 heavy metal points... players will be trading ships constantly. Waiting 10-15 mins for a shipyard to cycle... and this assumes that you have spotted a ship in the yard you are looking for in the 1st place.

And with this loose CnC, we can fly escorts, carriers and droners anytime anywhere for as long as we desire?

[FPF-DieHard]

About the whole "dying in a capital ship" thing...

It's 30 day server, plenty of opportunites for you to get killed 

J'inn forgot to mention 2263 start, 1.5 days per game year

i HOPE YOU ARE USING A CRAP LOAD OF TURNS PER YEAR! oops caps.

Waiting more than 6 minutes for a shipyard cycle to spit out your ship is way too painful. Boring. Not that I ever plan to lose my ship...

But with 7 heavy metal points... players will be trading ships constantly. Waiting 10-15 mins for a shipyard to cycle... and this assumes that you have spotted a ship in the yard you are looking for in the 1st place.

And with this loose CnC, we can fly escorts, carriers and droners anytime anywhere for as long as we desire?

Yes, I'm thinking 3 minute turns.

Escorts have been "balanced."   The G-racks have been replaced with F-racks.

All sides have access to droners so it is fair.

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

[Green]

Each team (not RACE!) can have 7 points of Heavy Metal on the board at any one time.

BCH = 2 points
DNs = 3 points
CVAs = 4 points

Might I recommend we break-out the points by Race, not side.  The reason being each race is suppose to be bringing their "stuff" to the fight.  If we make it "by side" then you can pretty much count on seeing only whichever race has the "sweet spot" at that time filling most/all of the restricted ships.

If it is broken out by race...then 4 points/race would be right (given the current 2/3/4 costs).

[Hexx]

Is there going to be a Fighter/PF CNC rule?

[GDA-Agave]

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

As usual, I presume that all 'heavy metal' ships will specially designated such as a 'c'  (i.e. cDNE) or something like that.    Also a list should be provided on the forums for all to see.

Question.    A BCV is not the same as a CVA.   Right?  It could be that I'm just having a slow day (cloudy day here on Ghdar), but the CVA is usually based on a DN hull, while the BCV is based on a BCH hull.


Rule ideas above sound very interesting.    So, when can we see a beta map?   

[Hexx]

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

As usual, I presume that all 'heavy metal' ships will specially designated such as a 'c'  (i.e. cDNE) or something like that.    Also a list should be provided on the forums for all to see.

Question.    A BCV is not the same as a CVA.   Right?  It could be that I'm just having a slow day (cloudy day here on Ghdar), but the CVA is usually based on a DN hull, while the BCV is based on a BCH hull.


Rule ideas above sound very interesting.    So, when can we see a beta map?   

Pretty much as soon as you can log onto the server there luggage boy.

I like Green's idea (4 /4/4) but the whiney and snivelly klinks & Roms would have to go 6/6
And BCV's are BCH's.

[FPF-DieHard]

Each team (not RACE!) can have 7 points of Heavy Metal on the board at any one time.

BCH = 2 points
DNs = 3 points
CVAs = 4 points

Might I recommend we break-out the points by Race, not side.  The reason being each race is suppose to be bringing their "stuff" to the fight.  If we make it "by side" then you can pretty much count on seeing only whichever race has the "sweet spot" at that time filling most/all of the restricted ships.

If it is broken out by race...then 4 points/race would be right (given the current 2/3/4 costs).

No   

By side makes it easier to balance fairness.   Doesn't matter if the Klink Dreads suck as the Rom ones are great . . .

[FPF-DieHard]

Is there going to be a Fighter/PF CNC rule?

Yes, but they will be simple.  Pretty much only Fed Gatling fighters will have CnC and the PFs rules will be the same are GW.

[GDA-Agave]

Each team (not RACE!) can have 7 points of Heavy Metal on the board at any one time.

BCH = 2 points
DNs = 3 points
CVAs = 4 points

Might I recommend we break-out the points by Race, not side.  The reason being each race is suppose to be bringing their "stuff" to the fight.  If we make it "by side" then you can pretty much count on seeing only whichever race has the "sweet spot" at that time filling most/all of the restricted ships.

If it is broken out by race...then 4 points/race would be right (given the current 2/3/4 costs).

Green, I would actually like the heavy metal points just as described, PER SIDE.     This will make the races in all three sides coordinate more as to which big ships are being used.    Also, your 4pts/race would have to be adjusted for the klingon/romulan team too.  Are you prepared to give the klingons/romulans 6pts/race (12 total) to match ours pt total.  It could end up being a big advantage over a 3 week server.

[GDA-Agave]

Pretty much as soon as you can log onto the server there luggage boy.

I like Green's idea (4 /4/4) but the whiney and snivelly klinks & Roms would have to go 6/6
And BCV's are BCH's.

I'm already making some room in my captain's quarters for some feline throwrugs.      In your case Hexx, I think you'd make a nice welcome mat.   

[FPF-DieHard]

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

As usual, I presume that all 'heavy metal' ships will specially designated such as a 'c'  (i.e. cDNE) or something like that.    Also a list should be provided on the forums for all to see.

Question.    A BCV is not the same as a CVA.   Right?  It could be that I'm just having a slow day (cloudy day here on Ghdar), but the CVA is usually based on a DN hull, while the BCV is based on a BCH hull.


Rule ideas above sound very interesting.    So, when can we see a beta map?   

A BCV is not a CVA, BCVs and CX  ships will likely be 2 Point ships just like normal BCHs.  Remember the server will end at around 2283.

There will be some ships that do not fit in the Cookie-cutter mold, these exceptions will be posted later.

There will be no "c" designations.   I'm hoping

[Green]

No   

No problem.  ISC BCHs are good to go for me. 

[Hexx]

No   

No problem.  ISC BCHs are good to go for me. 

Long as you leave the Lyrans enough points to field 2 BCH's I don't care what you fly.

[FPF-DieHard]

No   

No problem.  ISC BCHs are good to go for me. 

Long as you leave the Lyrans enough points to field 2 BCH's I don't care what you fly.

2 BCHs leave you enough for a Z-DNH!  I can see the line forming now . . .

[Hexx]

Oooh forgot about the STL
Sorry guys
Fortunately I know the Kzin have those little DWD's you all love so much
And Im sure the ISC has great cruisers as well, I remember reading somewhere that the ISC's ships were equal to
the next size of ship, so since yer CA/CC will be the equal of anyone else's BCHs it should work out just fine.

[Dizzy]

Yes, I'm thinking 3 minute turns.

Hrmmm. 5-6 are fine too... but the more turns the more the load on the server kit. Tip: Use STOCK shiplist for ALL the pirates. OP+4.0 went nuts with pirates and tripled their numbers just about, and the smaller the shiplist, the less cpu load used when the kit generates new ships in the yard. You already knew that tho, didnt ya? So trim, trim and trim more rather than 'R' or reclass things out. If it isnt needed and it doesnt give a shiplist error, AXE it!

Escorts have been "balanced."   The G-racks have been replaced with F-racks.

Whoot! I think SS3 is doing this as well. SG did that... but only on 4 or more racks. Are you doing it for EVERY G rack, period?

All sides have access to droners so it is fair.

cool.

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

You are going to fudge CV bpv's for this, right? I had to do that to get the shipyard prices and shiploss to work in tandem on a previous SG server.

[Commander Maxillius]

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

You are going to fudge CV bpv's for this, right? I had to do that to get the shipyard prices and shiploss to work in tandem on a previous SG server.

Wouldn't this screw the smaller carriers, as they'll draft based on bpv?  As in F5V's and DDV's drafting CA's and BCH's?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

A BCV is not a CVA, BCVs and CX  ships will likely be 2 Point ships just like normal BCHs.  Remember the server will end at around 2283.

There will be some ships that do not fit in the Cookie-cutter mold, these exceptions will be posted later.

I'd think the BCVs and BCXs deserve at least a 3 pt requirement.  A BCV is not a CVA but nor is it really a BCH, I think putting it in the midway grouping with the DNs would be about right.  Otherwise we might be seeing too many big carriers running around escorting each other.

[Dizzy]

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

You are going to fudge CV bpv's for this, right? I had to do that to get the shipyard prices and shiploss to work in tandem on a previous SG server.

Wouldn't this screw the smaller carriers, as they'll draft based on bpv?  As in F5V's and DDV's drafting CA's and BCH's?

Lesser class CV's should be reclassed to thier approximate size class. Those with 8 or more, like the NCV, or CVS, etc., should be number fudged to bring them up above CCH bpv's or else you can easily exploit shiploss. Its good practice anyway, cuz only lesser fighters are added to the CV's BPV. I say send their BPV thru the roof.

[SkyFlyer]

VI.  Bases

They go boom.

LOL    I think i'm the only one who found that funny.

[Hexx]

Nah BCV's should be 2 pts, otherwise you'll have then being equal to the DNH's that come out.
BCV's come out (approximately)about the same time so balance should be ok.
DNH's are also about the same time for release- with an edge to the Feds (how odd) who get the best one before
anyone elses are released.

[KBFLordKrueg]

A BCV is not a CVA, BCVs and CX  ships will likely be 2 Point ships just like normal BCHs.  Remember the server will end at around 2283.

There will be some ships that do not fit in the Cookie-cutter mold, these exceptions will be posted later.

I'd think the BCVs and BCXs deserve at least a 3 pt requirement.  A BCV is not a CVA but nor is it really a BCH, I think putting it in the midway grouping with the DNs would be about right.  Otherwise we might be seeing too many big carriers running around escorting each other.

I agree...
A rule preventing DNs and CVs from escorting each other (as we've had on the last couple servers) is also a pretty good idea, IMHPO...

[Green]

No   

No problem.  ISC BCHs are good to go for me. 

Long as you leave the Lyrans enough points to field 2 BCH's I don't care what you fly.

Its not a matter of "leaving enough points".  The 7 pt total is based on ships online at the same time. 

[FPF-DieHard]

I agree...
A rule preventing DNs and CVs from escorting each other (as we've had on the last couple servers) is also a pretty good idea, IMHPO...

I agree.   J'inn $ Kroma, this cool with you guys?

[FPF-DieHard]

Yes, I'm thinking 3 minute turns.

Hrmmm. 5-6 are fine too... but the more turns the more the load on the server kit. Tip: Use STOCK shiplist for ALL the pirates. OP+4.0 went nuts with pirates and tripled their numbers just about, and the smaller the shiplist, the less cpu load used when the kit generates new ships in the yard. You already knew that tho, didnt ya? So trim, trim and trim more rather than 'R' or reclass things out. If it isnt needed and it doesnt give a shiplist error, AXE it!

Escorts have been "balanced."   The G-racks have been replaced with F-racks.

Whoot! I think SS3 is doing this as well. SG did that... but only on 4 or more racks. Are you doing it for EVERY G rack, period?

All sides have access to droners so it is fair.

cool.

There are no CVDs on this server, other carriers smaller than a BCV are fair game and available to all.   Carriers will cost significantly more than a normal cruiser.

You are going to fudge CV bpv's for this, right? I had to do that to get the shipyard prices and shiploss to work in tandem on a previous SG server.

1.   Pirate Optio:  Very good idea, I will steal it.

2.   Only Escorts.

3. I'm thinking of setting ALL shiplooss to be like 90% so you wind up in a POL when you die.

other notes so people can Bitch now.   The Drone control fro the F-DNH and the K-C10K have been set back to 12 from 6 in OP+ 4.   it is just silly for those ship to have a DC of 6.   This worked in SFB where other ships in the fleet could control drones, this does not work in a 1-ship-per-pilot server.

Flame away

[Hexx]

I agree...
A rule preventing DNs and CVs from escorting each other (as we've had on the last couple servers) is also a pretty good idea, IMHPO...

I agree.   J'inn $ Kroma, this cool with you guys?

Am I being stupid for assuming (hoping) the $ sign is a typo?

[FPF-DieHard]

I agree...
A rule preventing DNs and CVs from escorting each other (as we've had on the last couple servers) is also a pretty good idea, IMHPO...

I agree.   J'inn $ Kroma, this cool with you guys?

Me make a typ0?  Nevber
Am I being stupid for assuming (hoping) the $ sign is a typo?

[Hexx]

Uhmm- aside from your own personal enjoyment WHY should the DNH & C10K have extra drone control?
I know it's because you need a crutch to pilot that big bateau around, and I assume the C10K is a bribe for Kruegy, but
what makes you think we're going to let you get away with it?

- I mean you can't even quote properly.. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Uhmm- aside from your own personal enjoyment WHY should the DNH & C10K have extra drone control?
I know it's because you need a crutch to pilot that big bateau around, and I assume the C10K is a bribe for Kruegy, but
what makes you think we're going to let you get away with it?

- I mean you can't even quote properly.. 

It's so I can toss more drones over my should you silly Monkey.   Did I really need to spell it out?

PS:  C10K gets an extra AMD12.   bite me t00l

[Hexx]

When's the theoretical start date on this btw?
This weekend/next weekend/sometime in the future

[FPF-DieHard]

When's the theoretical start date on this btw?
This weekend/next weekend/sometime in the future

Kroma needs some time to finish the custom Lyran Models ..  .

I figure we will go once we have Rs for all sides and they've had adequate time to "pimp."

[KAT J'inn]

Kroma needs some time to finish the custom Lyran Models ..  .

WHAT!!!???

GRRRRRRRRRRR

As for the escorting rule.  Fine with me.

[LordSaxon]

1.   Pirate Optio:  Very good idea, I will steal it.

2.   Only Escorts.

3. I'm thinking of setting ALL shiplooss to be like 90% so you wind up in a POL when you die.

other notes so people can Bitch now.   The Drone control fro the F-DNH and the K-C10K have been set back to 12 from 6 in OP+ 4.   it is just silly for those ship to have a DC of 6.   This worked in SFB where other ships in the fleet could control drones, this does not work in a 1-ship-per-pilot server.

Flame away

1. Pirates are an inferior swine and should be axed.

2. That definitely takes the bite out of an AD5!

3. make sure you set a base loss to a POL as well, seen some uncanny tricks a while back that scored mucho PP from a loss. Or make base costs extremely high.
Looking forward to the server, AOTK 1 was simply AWESOME.

LordSaxon

[Green]

DH,

You're looking at a 90% loss (a replacement valued at 10%) if you lose your ship?  Or am I misreading something in the thread?

[Hexx]

1) -I'd also like to make sure- 90% seems a little high to be promoting the "I don't care if I lose a ship"
     3 minute turns may work to balance it, but the DN/BCs are kinda pricey... I'm good either way, but I don't
     really like the idea of the heavy meatl only for those who put in alot of time.

2) Could we move from 7-> 9pts a side? That (imho) would give each side the ability to put 2 "nutters" in
    cap ships and leave 1-2 for casual players to spread the BCH's out.

3) (just to be 100% sure) -No BB's right?

4) Aren't the coalition going to suffer from a 2263 start? Aren't we all? Are CC's going to be cheap?

5) Are we going to be allowed to have ourshiplists pruned? (Lyran Escorts don't really serve any useful purpose)

[KBFLordKrueg]

DH,

You're looking at a 90% loss (a replacement valued at 10%) if you lose your ship?  Or am I misreading something in the thread?

I think a 90% ship loss is a bit much...the casual players (in other words, everyone but the nutters) will probably become quite discouraged after a few ship losses...

[FPF-DieHard]

DH,

You're looking at a 90% loss (a replacement valued at 10%) if you lose your ship?  Or am I misreading something in the thread?

I think a 90% ship loss is a bit much...the casual players (in other words, everyone but the nutters) will probably become quite discouraged after a few ship losses...

Yeah, you're right.   make it 50%

[FPF-DieHard]

1) -I'd also like to make sure- 90% seems a little high to be promoting the "I don't care if I lose a ship"
     3 minute turns may work to balance it, but the DN/BCs are kinda pricey... I'm good either way, but I don't
     really like the idea of the heavy meatl only for those who put in alot of time.

2) Could we move from 7-> 9pts a side? That (imho) would give each side the ability to put 2 "nutters" in
    cap ships and leave 1-2 for casual players to spread the BCH's out.

3) (just to be 100% sure) -No BB's right?

4) Aren't the coalition going to suffer from a 2263 start? Aren't we all? Are CC's going to be cheap?

5) Are we going to be allowed to have ourshiplists pruned? (Lyran Escorts don't really serve any useful purpose)

1.   Will consider goin to like 50%

2.   No, get off your BCH crutch    The nutters can share and remember if you get killed, you're out for 24 hours.

3.   Correct, no BBs

4.  I like suffering though a 2263 start, decent ships start showing up arounf 2265 for all races so I suggest drinking heavily for the first few days.   A few days of early era will put hair on your balls.

5.   Yes, pruning to SOME extent will be allowed.

[Green]

1.   Will consider goin to like 50%
2.   No, get off your BCH crutch    The nutters can share and remember if you get killed, you're out for 24 hours.
3.   Correct, no BBs
4.  I like suffering though a 2263 start, decent ships start showing up arounf 2265 for all races so I suggest drinking heavily for the first few days.   A few days of early era will put hair on your balls.
5.   Yes, pruning to SOME extent will be allowed.

1.  50% is okay.  Prefer 75%, but 50% is good.  No problems.

2-5.  Hexx stuff...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

1.   Will consider goin to like 50%

2.   No, get off your BCH crutch    The nutters can share and remember if you get killed, you're out for 24 hours.

3.   Correct, no BBs

4.  I like suffering though a 2263 start, decent ships start showing up arounf 2265 for all races so I suggest drinking heavily for the first few days.   A few days of early era will put hair on your balls.

5.   Yes, pruning to SOME extent will be allowed.

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