Topic: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad  (Read 13256 times)

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Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2005, 10:38:37 am »
I like all of TNG.  I like the first and second seasons and think the premier as well as the seasons themselves blow the pants off of the first episode of DS9 and the first season of Voyager.

I did think TNG got weaker in some ways as it progressed.  I especially thought season 7 was weak, except for a few select episodes.

In my opinion.

Of course, I'm one of those that thinks almost every episode of TOS was superb soooo...

Yes, but aren't you from Canada?   ;)
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2005, 05:04:24 pm »
You calling me a Canadian!???

Shocked I am, shocked I tell you.

Where I come from the lassies are fair, the lads are brave, the grass is green, and we can drink anyone under the table!!! (Though I hear some Scots, Aussies, and others think otherwise!).

:)
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Offline Hexx

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2005, 05:39:38 pm »
You calling me a Canadian!???

Shocked I am, shocked I tell you.

Where I come from the lassies are fair, the lads are brave, the grass is green, and we can drink anyone under the table!!! (Though I hear some Scots, Aussies, and others think otherwise!).

:)

Sounds like Canada to me..
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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2005, 06:01:05 pm »
TNG was NOT cut down in its prime. Once GR died the 7th season went right in the crapper.

Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2005, 06:11:04 pm »
Dont forget the early TNG episodes came only just 6 or 7 years following TV series like Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rogers in the 25th century. If you really want to see what cheap retro 70s/80s style sci-fi TV shows looked like... watch them, lol.
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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2005, 06:16:37 pm »
In all fairness, let me say that Season 7 TNG isn't all that bad (when compared to, say, Voyager's Season 7 in comparison, which in itself was okay), and there were some good episodes here and there, even the series finale, "All Good Things..." [TNG] was good.  Aside from the finale, one of my favorite Season 7 episodes had to be "Parallels" [TNG].  It was interesting, to say the least.  Imagine Quantum Leap, with a twist and no hologram to help you get through each reality.

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Offline Age

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2005, 08:51:00 pm »
   I will admit I like DS9 to and really the last season as I like Nicole deBore or Ezri.

Offline E_Look

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2005, 10:28:29 pm »
Ah Tracey, imagine if D.C. Fontana or Gene L. Coon or one of the better Trek writers took the reins of the original Battlestar Galactica!  What promise that show had anyway!  It's just too bad things went the way they did (... imagine a fourth or more season of TOS!!)

Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2005, 10:35:00 pm »
If memory serves me right, I think D.C. Fontana's writing a script for the TOS Fan Film Star Trek: New Voyages.

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Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2005, 07:17:57 am »
Well, the year after TOS was cancelled, the network changed the way it calculates its statistics for determining ratings. Under the new ratings, TOS was actually a resounding success, something that if they had known at the time, TOS would never have been cancelled. The error they made was by not looking at ratings according to demographic groups. It was discovered that in fact a very large proportion of males aged between 16 and 24 were watching TOS, but in the overall ratings this wasnt apparent. Perhaps in an alternate reality out there somewhere, TOS actually ran for as long as other shows of its time, like MASH (which ran for several years longer than the Korean War which it was actually depicting).
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Offline E_Look

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2005, 11:23:52 am »
If you've got a wormhole to that alternate reality, tape seasons 4-7 for me.  I'll reimburse you for the VHS cassettes and postage; the cost of the energy required to get there, well, how about if I let you make copies for yourself?

Offline Age

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2005, 08:38:49 pm »
  Maybe she is talking about how long ot has been in syndication which it has more so than some others and the one that beat it out Bonanza.We didn't get TOS where I lived no cable.

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2005, 11:11:43 pm »
TNG was NOT cut down in its prime. Once GR died the 7th season went right in the crapper.

There was a definite, percipitous dropoff in the story quality during season 7.  I always attributed that to the fact that the show was wrapping up, and they were pulling old, passed over scripts off the back of the shelf rather than commisioning new ones.  (I don't know that, that was just my theory.)

I don't think GR had much to do with the stories after season 2, did he?

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Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2005, 11:16:10 pm »
Well, the year after TOS was cancelled, the network changed the way it calculates its statistics for determining ratings.

 It was discovered that in fact a very large proportion of males aged between 16 and 24 were watching TOS, but in the overall ratings this wasnt apparent.

There is a book called, "The Making of Star Trek", by Steven Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry.  It was written at the end of season two, and ends on the rather dark note of NBC moving Trek to late Friday nights for Season three.

There is a really funny quote in there, in hindsight.  The authors are explaining about audience demographics and how you have to try to appeal to them.  In the book, they note that the TV industry insists(ed) that you ignore the college age group (a big part of the 16 to 24 demo)  since they are a minority. 

However, now TV execs note that these are the people with no responsibilities, likely to have large disposable incomes, ripe for advertisers!  In short, they are now one of the most important demographics.

If only they had thought that way then, Trek would have lasted much longer.

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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2005, 11:22:41 am »
You know It's kinda Funny. My Nephew Brett (10 YO) finally watched all the TOS Movies. and He just didn't get It, He missed all the inside jokes, Just couldn't wrap his head around the closeness that the cast managed to carry off. We had a talk yesterday , and It turns out, that while the Ship combat was cool, the storylines just didn't capture his Imagination like Starwars did.

I can only come to the conclusion that It has to be one of those, You had to be there things. I mean, how many of us grew up Waiting for the next adventure with Kirk and Co. and then many  years later, we see them on the big screen.  The show in Itself allowed us to dream, To further our own Education, etc.

Maybe he's just too young to understand things, then again, He has a crush right now on Jessica Alba. well so do I but that's beside the point.

Stephen
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Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2005, 11:58:14 am »
He may just be expecting Star Trek to be like Star Wars, mostly action and special effects with a storyline to fuel it (and not much grey matter required). Star Trek, on the otherhand has always been cerebral. Expectation may be causing your 10 yr. old, Stephen, to be missing the story.
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Offline KBF-Angel Slayer

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2005, 12:05:06 pm »
I'm sorry, Tracey...were you saying something?  I got distracted by your sig pic...cleavage and a woman that looks like she isn't twelve...kind of makes a man forget you were talking.  You were talking right?  Cerebus or cerebal or something? ;D


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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2005, 12:32:01 pm »
Tracey has a good point in addition to bitchin' sig pics.  When I was very young, Star Wars was it.  In my early teen years, I got an oppurtunity to really watch the original series and soon began to prefer it over Star Wars or even the TOS movies.  Later, I rediscovered my Star Wars fascination, and which one was my favorite could change in a matter of ours.

During my college years, I noticed that both were telling very different kinds of stories in completely different ways, and that it was okay to just say I loved both equally.

Star Wars I love because of the cliffhanger-esque action, the bizarre creatures, and the classic heroic archetypes represented throughout (Samurai, Cowboys, spunky Princesses, etc).

Star Trek I love because of the whole exploration aspect and the positive ideas for humanity's future.  TOS did that better than any of the follow on series.  DS9 is probably the best of the spin-offs, but it was a consistent performer...it's best episodes never hit the highs that really good TNG attained, but it's lows didn't sink down to the depths of the first and second season.

However, neither Star Wars nor Star Trek will ever be able to beat the best of sci-fi...

...The Twilight Zone.

I loved it then, I love it now.  It is the king. ;D
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2005, 12:34:47 pm »
You know It's kinda Funny. My Nephew Brett (10 YO) finally watched all the TOS Movies. and He just didn't get It, He missed all the inside jokes, Just couldn't wrap his head around the closeness that the cast managed to carry off. We had a talk yesterday , and It turns out, that while the Ship combat was cool, the storylines just didn't capture his Imagination like Starwars did.

I can only come to the conclusion that It has to be one of those, You had to be there things. I mean, how many of us grew up Waiting for the next adventure with Kirk and Co. and then many  years later, we see them on the big screen.  The show in Itself allowed us to dream, To further our own Education, etc.

Maybe he's just too young to understand things, then again, He has a crush right now on Jessica Alba. well so do I but that's beside the point.

Stephen

He may just be expecting Star Trek to be like Star Wars, mostly action and special effects with a storyline to fuel it (and not much grey matter required). Star Trek, on the otherhand has always been cerebral. Expectation may be causing your 10 yr. old, Stephen, to be missing the story.

In my youth, I got into Star Trek (as I lived in Okinawa, considering I remember nothing of my time in New Jersey) via TNG.  It wasn't the characters, Gene Roddenberry's optimistic vision of the future, the messages... It was the Starships.  Space Exploration and the odd combat or two, which caused me to have the now-hopeless kid dream of wanting to be an astronaught.  Kids are odd that way; we love eye-candy as well as candy for our mouth and stomach.  That's why Japanese TV is popular to kids nowadays (dubbed and mutilated or not), just as they were to those who lived in Okinawa.  The odd-yet-fun eye-candy and adventure.  No matter how pointless two cute "monsters" fight each other as two kids bark to their respective "monsters" orders that they carry out, the eye-candy is there, from electricity light shows to water tsunamis, and that's why kids like stuff such as that or Sentai (Power Rangers-esque shows).

While Star Wars was cool in itself, as a kid, I never got into Star Wars as much for the space battles, but for the Lightsaber combat.  I mean, I liked the energy-based blades, the different colors (long before Episode 2, I wanted a neon purple-looking Lightsaber.  And they existed in the Expanded Universe novels, which I never knew of then), the way they were performed in the Original Trilogy.  Even in 1999 when the torch of the choreography--so to speak metaphorically--was past from Peter Diamond to Nick Gillard, I was more interested in the Jedi and the Sith, right down to the lightsaber action.  Even now, I'd love to have one if they existed for real, aside from florescant lightbulbs and the hilt for show, or the hasbro toys or custom-made stunt sabers or hilts for show (without sounds and florescant lightbulbs), the stunt or hasbro ones I'd settle with if I bothered to get one.

Nowadays, I have more appreciations for sci-fi I've seen before, Star Trek especially.  Star Trek's philosophy, positive vision of the future, the characters, the better understanding of the adventures, etc.  And with Star Wars too, although I still hold more to being a kid in that area, even though I have more of an interest in Star Trek.  To summarize: The eyes of a kid is different from the eyes of an adult, no matter how much we'd like to think or wish that there's still some of a kid left in us.

(On a note, I never got into the Twilight Zone... Maybe I should try it out.)

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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2005, 12:52:31 pm »
Quote
To summarize: The eyes of a kid is different from the eyes of an adult, no matter how much we'd like to think or wish that there's still some of a kid left in us.

Don't have to think or wish, just have to be willing to let the little guy out to play.:)

To quote a favorite author, 'It's never too late to have a happy childhood.'
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight