Topic: Wow, early TNG is REALLY bad

[Clark Kent]

I'm watching it right now on spike tv, it's the one where weasly trips on a flower bed and is going to be put to death for it by the people who have sex with anything that moves.  Man is it bad.  How did this series last with a beginning like that?

[IndyShark]

All of the Star Trek series have a few bad episodes.

Need I remind you of Spock's brain?

[Clark Kent]

All of the Star Trek series have a few bad episodes.

Need I remind you of Spock's brain?

LMAO, yeah, that one is so bad it's classic though.   

[IndyShark]

Ok, how about Journey to Eden? Yech!

[Clark Kent]

Ok, how about Journey to Eden? Yech!

LMAO, Spock as a hippy.  Even more classicly bad.

[IndyShark]

Thank God there were more than a few good ones to offset the bad ones.

[Clark Kent]

Thank God there were more than a few good ones to offset the bad ones.

I wonder if mystery science theater 3000 ever did some of those episodes of trek.

[Mr_Tricorder]

If there was'nt already an existing fan base, I don't think TNG would've made it past the second season.  Fortunately, it did and 3rd season on it was great.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

If there was'nt already an existing fan base, I don't think TNG would've made it past the second season.  Fortunately, it did and 3rd season on it was great.

Agreed.  The first two seasons were weak, and the second was weaker than the first.  Had it been any show other than Trek then likely it would have been yanked early.

I also agree it got better from there on.  Good in the third, even better in the fourth.  By the fifth season it was firing on all cylinders.

-S'Cipio

[Clark Kent]

Which means there are only 3 seasons where TNG was at it's best.  They ended it in it's prime.  Bummer.  And look what they replaced it wiht: Voyager.  What a loss.

[Mr_Tricorder]

Which means there are only 3 seasons where TNG was at it's best.  They ended it in it's prime.  Bummer.  And look what they replaced it wiht: Voyager.  What a loss.

They could've easily extended TNG to ten seasons.  They ended it when it wasn't really working towards a close like DS9 and Voyager did.  To me, this made Generations feel more like the true series finally for TNG instead of the first TNG movie.

[Clark Kent]

Except generations overall wasn't that great of a movie.

[Mr_Tricorder]

Except generations overall wasn't that great of a movie.

I never said it was.  I thought it was an OK movie, but it felt more like a long episode than a movie and lacked the driving quality and excitement level that a Star Trek movie should have.

[Clark Kent]

Except generations overall wasn't that great of a movie.

I never said it was.  I thought it was an OK movie, but it felt more like a long episode than a movie and lacked the driving quality and excitement level that a Star Trek movie should have.

Agreed, though even as an episode, it wouldn't have been a very good episode.  Still, it did have it's moments, like that beautiful enterprise B, data's finally getting the 7 year old joke jordi told at farpoint and of course, data's explitiveas the saucer section went diving in to the planet.

[Chris Johnson]

like that beautiful enterprise B

I disagree... I don't like the bloated look.  Sure, the wide look suits the Enterprise-D/Galaxy-class Starships, but not for the Enterprise-B/Excelsior-class Starships.  John Eaves did a bad job with the Enterprise-B, which was likely a part of his quest for a Hot Rod/Porsche of a Starship, by the streamlined look of the Excelsior-class and making it look less streamlined, more "fat" in the primary and secondary hulls (Why would you need to expand the secondary hull for no reason--other than real life reasons--and add big impulse engines that'd melt the front side of the warp engines).  The Sovereign-class was a continuation of such a project that, if not then (a decade ago being a kid), I frown upon in recent years.

Anyways, back on subject:

Early TNG has had its bad moments, and some of Trek throughout its three seasons had its bad moments.  Even DS9 and Voyager had their bad moments.  It's the same with most everything else in life.

But you have to admit there was something good in the early seasons of ST: TNG and the rest of Trek (I don't know about Enterprise though... I guess).  For Season 1, I liked the following episodes:

01. "Encounter at Farpoint" [TNG]
02. "Where no one has Gone Before" [TNG]
03. "The Last Outpost" [TNG]
04. "The Battle" [TNG]
05. "Too Short a Season" [TNG]
06. "11001001" [TNG]
07. "Coming of Age" [TNG]
08. "Heart of Glory" [TNG]
09. "The Arsenal of Freedom" [TNG]
10. "Conspiracy" [TNG]
11. "The Neutral Zone" [TNG]

And for Season 2:

01. "Elementary, Dear Data" [TNG]
02. "A Matter of Honor" [TNG]
03. "The Measure of a Man" [TNG]
04. "Contagion" [TNG]
05. "Time Squared" [TNG] (Although "Cause and Effect" [TNG] does a better job at Time Loops than this)
06. "Q Who" [TNG]
07. "Samaritan Snare" [TNG]
08. "The Emissary" [TNG]
09. "Peak Performance" [TNG]

My favorites of each season on both lists were #2 of Season 1 and #6 of TNG.  My reasons:

Season 1 Favorite:
"Where no one has Gone Before" [TNG]

Not by far I guess, but a favorite of mine since I was a kid.  A more explorative way of Trek.  No violence, no death, just exploration.  One of the reasons I like Trek.  Some ideals, a nice dillema that might be overused nowadays (Voyager was all about getting home too.  The Enterprise-D took one episode to get stranded on one or two places in the universe before getting back home.  Voyager was on the other side of the Milky Way Galaxy and took seven seasons.), but still, it's a nice episode.  I just can't exactly put my finger on why I like it, but as you see here, some parts are described in an attempt.

Season 2 Favorite:
"Q Who?" [TNG]

Well... What can I say?  A recurring "villain" that puts some darkness into the campyness and optimism of Trek (but not eliminating it, and I'm suprised Star Trek: First Contact accomplished that too) by slapping the Human species on the back of their heads Jethero Gibbs-style by sending the crew of the Enterprise-D to System J25 and giving them their first ever encounter of a technologically-superior and virtually-dangerous technology-based species that has "evolved" to being normal everyday villains, but their "simpleness" and ungeneralization in this episode helps add to their nightmareish appearence. 
A race interested in technology and culture-absorbing, their morality virtually different.  How we see them as evil, they see their motives as good and justifyable, as they believe they're improving the quality of live for each and every species they see, whereas we see them as evil, perverting species and cultures and robbing them of their freedom and individuality, etc.
Basically, this episode was good as an hour-long adventure, along with Q (one of my favorite Trek "villains" thanks to John De Lancie).
It was tougher to choose for Season 2, since it was between this and "Contagion" [TNG], a good episode in itself.

Overall, I don't find both seasons appealing nowadays, but they have their fair share of episodes that are pretty good, even if they would pale in comparison to the better episodes of the later seasons of ST: TNG.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

I'm watching it right now on spike tv, it's the one where weasly trips on a flower bed and is going to be put to death for it by the people who have sex with anything that moves.  Man is it bad.  How did this series last with a beginning like that?

In 1986, TNG had no sci-fi competition...enterpirse was up against a ton of sci-fi that were being produced for less money...

[el-Karnak]

Enterprise was up against sci-fi series that were much more scared of being cancelled than Trek was, so the writing was better.  Nothing focuses the mind better when a network says  "we'll see how it goes" regarding even have a Season 1, much less having multiple seasons.

I had the feeling that the Star Trek people never took cancellation threats seriously until it was too late. Otherwise there would have been major writer changes for Enterprise in season 2 instead of season 4.

[Age]

 I liked early episodes of TNG they had a  TOS feeling to them it might be becuase DC Fontana was the producer instead of Bermon.Bermon of who knows nothing of Star Trek and it original cult following.DC Fontana was there from the beginning to the cage I believe.

[Dash Jones]

I like all of TNG.  I like the first and second seasons and think the premier as well as the seasons themselves blow the pants off of the first episode of DS9 and the first season of Voyager.

I did think TNG got weaker in some ways as it progressed.  I especially thought season 7 was weak, except for a few select episodes.

In my opinion.

Of course, I'm one of those that thinks almost every episode of TOS was superb soooo...

[Mr_Tricorder]

I think TNG got better as it progressed, but I think it hit its peak in the sixth season.  I really enjoy DS9 and don't think the first episode was bad at all.  You're right about Voyager, though.  I also like TOS, but it feels very different than any other Trek series, so it's really hard to compare it to the others.  I would have to say my favorite Trek series is DS9, but for me it's almost a three-way tie between TOS, TNG, and DS9.