Topic: AMD Files Antitrust Complaint Against Intel In U.S. Federal District Court

[Nemesis]

Link to full article

AMD Files Antitrust Complaint Against Intel In U.S. Federal District Court

– Complaint Details Worldwide Coercion of Computer-Makers, System-Builders, Distributors and Retailers from Dealing with AMD –
– Intel’s Illegal Acts Inflate Computer Prices and Limit Choices for Businesses and Consumers –

SUNNYVALE, Calif. -- June 28, 2005 --AMD (NYSE: AMD) announced today that it filed an antitrust complaint against Intel Corporation (“Intel”) yesterday in U.S. federal district court for the district of Delaware under Section 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act, Sections 4 and 16 of the Clayton Act, and the California Business and Professions Code. The 48-page complaint explains in detail how Intel has unlawfully maintained its monopoly in the x86 microprocessor market by engaging in worldwide coercion of customers from dealing with AMD. It identifies 38 companies that have been victims of coercion by Intel – including large scale computer-makers, small system-builders, wholesale distributors, and retailers, through seven types of illegality across three continents.

“Everywhere in the world, customers deserve freedom of choice and the benefits of innovation – and these are being stolen away in the microprocessor market,” said Hector Ruiz, AMD chairman of the board, president and chief executive officer. “Whether through higher prices from monopoly profits, fewer choices in the marketplace or barriers to innovation – people from Osaka to Frankfurt to Chicago pay the price in cash every day for Intel’s monopoly abuses.”

Note the article is one sided because it comes from AMD. 

[Grim]

Looks like it will be a messy court battle...

[toasty0]

I guess if it worked for Sun Systems is should for evereyone...

[Sirgod]

You know, It's been years since I've owned a Intel based system. I've rented a few at times, But once AMD solved there heating Problems back in the late 80's early 90's, I never looked back.

Stephen

[E_Look]

Heh, Stephen.  I love my AMD chip, so don't get me wrong, but boy, my socket 754 Athlon 64 3000+ runs HOT!  In a long idle the mobo software reads it as 58° C and if say, I run SFC or something, it goes up to 61° C at least.  I know someone here, probably Javora, told me that it could be the bad choice of math by the software programmer, but those kinds of numbers for chip temps spook me.

I know the new socket 939 versions run much cooler, but it seems to me that the first version of a new AMD seems to run hot, eh?

[FPF-DieHard]

Heh, Stephen.  I love my AMD chip, so don't get me wrong, but boy, my socket 754 Athlon 64 3000+ runs HOT!  In a long idle the mobo software reads it as 58° C and if say, I run SFC or something, it goes up to 61° C at least.  I know someone here, probably Javora, told me that it could be the bad choice of math by the software programmer, but those kinds of numbers for chip temps spook me.

I know the new socket 939 versions run much cooler, but it seems to me that the first version of a new AMD seems to run hot, eh?

My AMD 1.4 GHz "Server" has run at a perpetual 73° C for about 2 years now.   it is almost always on and I think if it wasn't desinged to operate at this tmep it would have failed by now.

[E_Look]

73º C!!  Holy... uh, smoke!

I'm not all that hip on what clock speeds correspond to what model of processor, but 1.4 sounds like Thunderbird.  I strongly believe those series of CPUs are NOT designed to be near 70º C at all!

In fact, 75º C is nominally the limit for my skt 754 Athlon 64, according to AMD's website.

I am happy for you and sincerely hope and wish that your server's chip lasts a long time to come.  (Still, you might want to install extra cooling... )

[Tus-XC]

my p4 3.2 barely gets about 40ºC   (air cooled)

[Nemesis]

My AMD 1.4 GHz "Server" has run at a perpetual 73° C for about 2 years now.   it is almost always on and I think if it wasn't desinged to operate at this tmep it would have failed by now.

The Athlon 1.4 ghz that I had ran at a fairly steady 58° C as I recall.  It was the last and hottest of its core design.  The successor ran faster and cooler.  I recently replaced it with an Athlon XP 2100 (1.733ghz) and I think it runs about 20° C cooler. 

[Nemesis]

I know someone here, probably Javora, told me that it could be the bad choice of math by the software programmer, but those kinds of numbers for chip temps spook me.

I believe that was me. 

At times after a BIOS update the reported temps change considerably because there is an offset value to compensate for the distance of the thermocouple from the chip that it is measuring.  At times they change that distance between the time the BIOS specifications are created and the actual manufacture of the motherboard.  Other times they just miscalculated it in the first place.  Then in a BIOS revision they fix it.

Many things can affect the offset value, airflow through the socket for example.  Distance as previously mentioned.  Relative position to case fans.  Changing the specified thermocouple from one model to another.  Even having a different hot component closer or further from the probe than originally planned for.

If you think your CPU temp is too high there are several things to check.

1/ Dirty heat sink.  Clean with compressed air while system is off and unplugged.  Clean all your fans while you are at it.  Compressed air can caused enough cooling to result in condensate.  If it does allow enough time for any condensate to evaporate before starting the computer.  Also allow enough time for the system components to return to ambient temps.

2/ Are all your fans actually working?  Especially the CPU fan.  (Check before and after cleaning but clean any how).

3/ Air flow blockage?  Both in and out of the system.  Make sure that if you have fans blowing in that you also have fans blowing out and in a reasonable pattern.

4/ Look up your CPU online and see what voltage it is meant to run at.  Then check in your BIOS what is reported.  Voltages can be set by jumper on the motherboard and if they are misset you could be overpowering the chip (resulting in more heat of course).  This can happen as a result of error in setting the jumper or an error in the manual.

5/ Check for a current BIOS and see if it lists changes to temperature measuring.  Consider updating to current.  Note:  From experience always restore your BIOS to default settings before updating.  I have seen BIOS updates fail (resulting in non booting systems) from a bad update caused by not restoring defaults.

6/ Is your system loaded?  If so you may have overloaded the cooling abilities of that case.

[E_Look]

Wow, +1!

What a comprehensive list!  Score another one for the Dynaverse; where else on the 'Net can you actually get on target info like this??

I will keep all of these in mind.  However, I fear the last point may be more real in my system than I cared to admit at the time.  Now that I think about it, I have a DVD/CD drive, a CD drive, a Zip drive, the customary floppy drive, fancy pants video card (for it's time, a Radeon 9700 Pro), 2 sticks of 512 MB RAM instead of one 1 GB, a @!#$% tangle of cables, even with a round cable (gee, how did I manage to do that??), and two no-name fans out of the three, one of which is actually in a mount that was poorly designed (bad location for moving air).  I used my steel case only because I got it for free!

Oh, by the way: sorry to ruin your nice round karma total! 

[FPF-DieHard]

My AMD 1.4 GHz "Server" has run at a perpetual 73° C for about 2 years now.   it is almost always on and I think if it wasn't desinged to operate at this tmep it would have failed by now.

The Athlon 1.4 ghz that I had ran at a fairly steady 58° C as I recall.  It was the last and hottest of its core design.  The successor ran faster and cooler.  I recently replaced it with an Athlon XP 2100 (1.733ghz) and I think it runs about 20° C cooler. 

Yeah, but I don't have to replace it if it does what is needs to do.    i'm litereally going to wating for it to melt to slag before replacing it (unless another hand-me-down Chip and MoBoard become available).

Again,  73° C  is the typical tempt it runs at though last night is was down to about 68° C

[Jack Morris]

Plus one Nem, I have always wonderd about my new AMD and how to check stuff out! Thanks! 

I agree with Stephen, I have a Sony VAIO P4 1.4 form 4 years ago, and yeah it was cool but it wasn't anything like AMD!

Besides, AMD has a HUGE plant and offices in Austin, TX. They win the lawsuit and I know some employees and investors are going to be breaking out the champagne bottles!

[Tus-XC]

i doubt they will win as much as people would like them to win, though it will be courts for a while i am sure.  guess i'm a wierd one in this group, i like my p4, does what i need it to funny part is it looks like i'm running cooler for some reason than some of the temps u all posted for an amd system.... i thought p4 were supposed to run natoroulsy hot (then again i don't use a stock fan)

[toasty0]

Does the car get you from here to there? All else is nothing if it doesn't.

I think the same can be said of CPUs too.

[Javora]

At times after a BIOS update the reported temps change considerably because there is an offset value to compensate for the distance of the thermocouple from the chip that it is measuring.  At times they change that distance between the time the BIOS specifications are created and the actual manufacture of the motherboard.  Other times they just miscalculated it in the first place.  Then in a BIOS revision they fix it.

Many things can affect the offset value, airflow through the socket for example.  Distance as previously mentioned.  Relative position to case fans.  Changing the specified thermocouple from one model to another.  Even having a different hot component closer or further from the probe than originally planned for.

If you think your CPU temp is too high there are several things to check.

1/ Dirty heat sink.  Clean with compressed air while system is off and unplugged.  Clean all your fans while you are at it.  Compressed air can caused enough cooling to result in condensate.  If it does allow enough time for any condensate to evaporate before starting the computer.  Also allow enough time for the system components to return to ambient temps.

2/ Are all your fans actually working?  Especially the CPU fan.  (Check before and after cleaning but clean any how).

3/ Air flow blockage?  Both in and out of the system.  Make sure that if you have fans blowing in that you also have fans blowing out and in a reasonable pattern.

4/ Look up your CPU online and see what voltage it is meant to run at.  Then check in your BIOS what is reported.  Voltages can be set by jumper on the motherboard and if they are misset you could be overpowering the chip (resulting in more heat of course).  This can happen as a result of error in setting the jumper or an error in the manual.

5/ Check for a current BIOS and see if it lists changes to temperature measuring.  Consider updating to current.  Note:  From experience always restore your BIOS to default settings before updating.  I have seen BIOS updates fail (resulting in non booting systems) from a bad update caused by not restoring defaults.

6/ Is your system loaded?  If so you may have overloaded the cooling abilities of that case.

Not bad, the only thing I would add to that list is this:

7.  Check the cables and wires to make sure they are tucked away at the sides of the case.  Cables and wires hanging all over in between the intake and exhaust fans can interfere with the air flow of the case.

[E_Look]

Ah, but if the car engine thermometer consistently goes significantly over the halfway tick mark, it'd make me worry all the same.

[Tus-XC]

so ur saying (by what i'm seeing here for temps) go intel   (sarcasm, its probably got somthing to do w/ 5 case fans, 1 really big cpu fan....)

[Javora]

Yeah, but I don't have to replace it if it does what is needs to do.    i'm litereally going to wating for it to melt to slag before replacing it (unless another hand-me-down Chip and MoBoard become available).

Again,  73° C  is the typical tempt it runs at though last night is was down to about 68° C

Here is what I found on the AMD website, here is the link and the quote:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/FAQ_eng.pdf

Our current AMD processors are specified to have die temperature of 0c – 90c or 0c – 95c, depending on the CPU model.

These are the temperature ranges we specify our products to.  We cannot guarantee any reading you get from the motherboard, using the BIOS or third party monitoring software.  As a general guideline, the temperature difference between the die and the bottom of the CPU is about 30c.

It is worth noting that the maximum temperature of the CPU is reached when running heavy applications such as 3D Games etc…  Therefore one should allow an extra 10-15c for safety if you are reading from the BIOS set up.

As approximation to the typical reading from a BIOS or an external software utility is expected to be around 60c – 65c or lower.

Given what I read above, I would suggest investing in some type of CPU heat sink/fan combination.  Since according to the AMD FAQ you are actually running about 98c ~ 103c, that's a little warm even for an AMD CPU.  Other than that take a look at Nemesis post, it might be worth it to protect your investment.

[FPF-DieHard]

Given what I read above, I would suggest investing in some type of CPU heat sink/fan combination.  Since according to the AMD FAQ you are actually running about 98c ~ 103c, that's a little warm even for an AMD CPU.  Other than that take a look at Nemesis post, it might be worth it to protect your investment.

Investment?   I build this PC for $400 2 years ago