Topic: DeBeers cartel may see it's demise this century?

[Jack Morris]

We all know how criminal the diamond trade is (is why I will NEVER buy a naturally formed diamond), but this tech is just like the natural way, I mean, at the atomic level? Wow! I imagine DeBeers will be tightening their sphincters so hard that THEY could create a diamond! They will probably just flood the market when they realize their time is very short. It's no secret that if they did so right now, diamonds would be so cheap as they have a bountiful reserve kept stashed away and a tight grip on what gets released and what does not.

http://biz.yahoo.com/opt/050611/7b97de819865e20172fc6fe6ca883fbd.html

[J. Carney]

REAL diamonds will always be worth more than man-made ones.

If anything, DeBeers might just be able to RAISE prices because of this... here's my reasoning:

New techniques allow the 'common man' to afford 2 and 3 karat diamonds made synthetically. NOw BIG diamonds cease to be a status symbol. The price for the high-quality synthstones fall through the floor, and big stones are available to everyone.

Instead of devaluing naturally-formed diamonds, this actually RAISES their value. SInce people with less mones are the ones buying the synthstones, the natural stones- even the smaller ones- become MORE of a status symbol, and therefore command a higher price.

[Nemesis]

REAL diamonds will always be worth more than man-made ones.

Only so long as the difference can be told.

[jayvt3]

i have personally seen the effects of legitamate and illegitamate mining endeavours.  both sicken me.
i have also seen man-made diamonds from .001 of a carat to 500 carats.  and the only difference between natural and man-made is that the mand made has no natural impurities that give is "colour".

[Jack Morris]

Exactly, they are of a yellowish hue, but this new technology can create any diamond you want, in it's purest form too! Those man made ones with today's tech are not cheap either, a diamond is a diamond any way you look at it, wether from the earth or createdat the atomic level on up.

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

What is worth more, a real autograph from a celebrity, or a forgery done by a computer that is so good as to be identical?  It's not that it is a perfect match, it is that, despite the claims, it is still a knock-off.  A diamond has it's value because they are NOT made by pushing a button.  It is a very beautiful, natural item.  And that is why they will retain their value.

[Nemesis]

with today's tech are not cheap either

In 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?  The rules change with time.

What would the cost of a chip with 100 million transistors have been 10 or 20 years ago?  If it could even be made it would have been fabulously expensive.  Now they are affordable.  In 5 years they will be cheap.  Diamond will follow the same pattern though the time frame may well be different.

[J. Carney]

a diamond is a diamond any way you look at it, wether from the earth or createdat the atomic level on up.

That is PRECISELY what DeBeers will point out to make the value of their natural ones go UP!

The 'it's as real as a natural one' line will become the rallying cry of the synthetic diamond makers. Of course, they will get cheaper than the natural ones, because they will eventually be more redilly available.

At that time, DeBeers will start marketing their stuff as pure status symbols... they'll eventually be something that only the rich can afford, or would want to with artificial ones becoming so cheap. After that, DeBeers will just set higher prices on the realthing, and begin catering only to the rich. Since they will need fewer diamonds without the public at large buying them, they'll slow down the mining ops, and the price will then be FURTHRE elivated by decreased supply.

DeBeers won't loose their shirts over this one by a long shot- they'll just start marketing to the more elite markets.

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Didn'ty we hear this same battle cry when the Cubit Zirconim's came out?  Only your jeweler will know, and what happened?  Diamonds still haven't lost their appeal.  It is more than anythinjg, a matter of getting the real thing rather than an imitation, and man made is still man made.

[Nemesis]

Didn'ty we hear this same battle cry when the Cubit Zirconim's came out?  Only your jeweler will know, and what happened?  Diamonds still haven't lost their appeal.  It is more than anythinjg, a matter of getting the real thing rather than an imitation, and man made is still man made.

There is a big difference though.  Now the battle cry will be "Even your jeweller can't tell".  Already it takes expensive equipment that most jewellers can't afford to tell the difference between the best of the synthetics and the natural.  Once it costs more than the diamond is worth to tell the difference who will want to pay natural diamond prices when they can buy a $50 synthetic and just say "Of course it is natural and cost $5,000" and pocket the difference

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Then I'll phrase it properly:  Tell that to your wife/girlfirend/mom.  They are the key to the DeBeers market, and the 'fool anyone' line is going to make for a lot of fools eating fast food.  It will get to the point where the diamond is important, but you damn well better have the 'certificate of authenticity' to prove it is a real, natural diamond, complete with the DeBeers stamp of approval.
   A man might tolerate a knock off and be happy with it.  Not to be sexist, but most women think in emotional terms, and trust me, an 'economical purchase that no one can tell from the original' is not going to sit well with an emotional mind.
   Is that all you value them?  Get ready for it.  It will happen...

[Fedman NCC-3758]

As I understand it Russia has the largest cache of diamonds in the world. DeBeers has been walking a tightrope for years with the Russians, trying to keep them from flooding the market.

Looking for a real gem stone? Look into Emeralds, Sapphires, and Rubies.

[Nemesis]

Then I'll phrase it properly:  Tell that to your wife/girlfirend/mom.  They are the key to the DeBeers market, and the 'fool anyone' line is going to make for a lot of fools eating fast food.  It will get to the point where the diamond is important, but you damn well better have the 'certificate of authenticity' to prove it is a real, natural diamond, complete with the DeBeers stamp of approval.
   A man might tolerate a knock off and be happy with it.  Not to be sexist, but most women think in emotional terms, and trust me, an 'economical purchase that no one can tell from the original' is not going to sit well with an emotional mind.
   Is that all you value them?  Get ready for it.  It will happen...

That is when the "significant other" gets asked do you want the real diamond or the synthetic and the mink coat?   The real diamond or the Mercedes? 

How long will it be before there are scandals about jewellers and diamond distributors selling synthetics and giving forged certificates that are just as good as the real one because they were stolen blanks and match the information on authentic ones.  This type of thing has happened with Microsofts Holograms, passports and credit cards, do you really think that the diamond industry will be any different?  Once the scandals begin then the naturals will devalue.  Especially if DeBeers themselves get taken in with phonies.   

I think it more likely that the gem market would switch to other valuable gems that don't have perfect duplicates or reason to make them because they have no industrial use.  Diamonds are an excellent industrial tool, cheap synthetic diamonds will become a multi billion dollar industry.   

[Jack Morris]

True Nem, the diamond is much more useful in industry than sitting on someone's finger or neck or in an earlobe. The diamond P/C microprocessor chip is a reality, and combined with nanotech stuff, we may very well see diamonds not being a "woman's best friend, but MAN'S best friend! Muahahahahahahahaha... 

Actually, besides Australia and a few other civilized countries, there are few places that really do practice fair wages and treatment of miners in the gem mining industry.

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

You can buy a synthetic fur that is almost impossible to distinguish as well, Nem.  For the industrial aspect, and commercial, obviously the synthetic will be used if it can perform the task.  But the real thing will always have a certain market.  The price may go down somewhat, but it won't be Snickers bars prices. 
   Both will fill a select market. 

[Just plain old Punisher]

CZ (also known as industrial diamonds) are usually flawless, so if you have a good jewlers loop you can tell the difference between fake and real. Also issues of color can give you a good idea which is which. Ultimatly, most jewlers or diamond buyers have a diamond testing laser, a small pocket device that will indicate if a diamond is natural or not.

Natural diamonds are worthless IMHO. It was only until the early 20th century that they became popular in wedding rings. A brilliant piece of marketing by the Debeers company, since they control 2/3rds of the worlds diamond supply, and stricktly control output to keep prices high.

Wholesale diamonds are remarkably cheep. Aside from the quality of a diamond, a diamond that sells for maybe 450 bucks wholesale goes for maybe 1,500 to 2,500 on the retail market. How else do you think they can have a 50-75% off sale and still make a good profit. The markup is so good its evil.

[Dracho]

Every natural diamond, regardless of quality or cut, has at least one flaw.  Manufactured diamonds do not.  It's easy.. if it's flawless, nature didn't make it.  Injecting a flaw into a manufactured diamond is harder than making the diamond itself.

Mrs. Dracho knows diamonds.. BOY DOES SHE KNOW DIAMONDS..

[Jack Morris]

Agreed Punisher, it's done so well and is purely money motivated. Is why I swore NEVER to buy a diamond as a piece of jewelry for ANYONE.

My wife was born in November and I bought her a pendant for Christmas. It might not be a diamond, but you seen one, you have seen em all, except for the blue diamonds, IMO. There are MANY gemstones out there that can easily attract more attention (that is their purpose with women, no?), like my mom's blue sapphire rock that was mounted on a ring and had a few diamonds and lots of gold. My stepdad was loaded, I mean that was her GRADUATION gift when she graduated from college in her 40's!

[J. Carney]

I'll only buy ONE diamond... and then only if that is what she WANTS for her engagment ging.

Other than that, she'll get emeralds or rubies. The green ones can easily become more pricey than diamonde.


And yeah, Russia has the largest single ready-to-hand cache of diamonds in the world. If they turned them loose, prices on REAL diamonsd would fall to about .25 on the dollar.