Topic: Gorns.. How did you let this happen?!

[Mr.Bad151]

Being a lover of flying bricks, I was checking out the gorn ships when I couldn't find the MCC.  There I was checking all the eras under light cruisers..  Nothing..  Just for giggles I looked under the heavy cruisers.. and ACK! There is was!  It went from being one of the best gorn ships to a medicore heavy cruiser.. 

Did the MCC get a hunck of hull and more warp to warrant this injustice?!  Gorns don't have a lot of good ships to begin with.. granted the ones they do have can hold their own very well, but to move the MCC to heavy cruiser is nothing short of an injustice I tell you!

Wait a sec.. this must be some sort of oversight because there are only a few gorn pilots out there.. no one noticed the mistake before.. That has to be it!

[Corbomite]

Its not a mistake. The MCC is a Medium Command Cruiser. It has a move cost of 1 and therefore belongs in the Heavy section as Light Cruisers have a move cost of 2/3. Its my favorite Gorn ship. The loadout didn't change and the placement in the CA section does nothing to drafting or the BPV.

[Doctor Lazarus]

sorry, but...um...welcome to 2005? There aren'y 5,000 ladder players, OP is the preferred platform for SFC and things change over time.

[Father Ted]

As Corbo said, it's still just as good as it ever was, and when I fly Bruce, the MCC is the first ship I look for in the yards.

[Mog]

Plural of Gorn is Gorn.

/nitpicking hat off

[Corbomite]

Plural of Gorn is Gorn.

/nitpicking hat off

I wasn't going to say anything. I always get dinged for nitpicking. 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Ah yes...... I remember it like it wasss yesterday.

  There I was, talking to the Chief of the Exchequer.  "Knobby," I said, "we've jussst got to have a new heavy cruissser.   The Alosaur is a fine ssship, but her day isss done.  The pointy earsss have a new fleet, the frogsss are gettin' froggy, and you mark my wordsss!  there isss a war coming."

  "Ssstuff and nonsssense" was his ignorant reply.  "The Gorn are the mossst peaceful race in the galaxy, jussst assss you yourssself alwaysss sssay.   We are the only race never to have ssstarted a war againssst our neighborsss.  If the pointy earsss, the frogsss and the flatheadsss want to fight, let them!  We will not get involved.  I'd just asss soon drydock all the Allosaursss and turn them into housssing projectsss for the poor."

  He'd missed a vital point, of course; a point so important that I carefully chose my words with no 's' sounds, to ensure I was understood.   "Look here, Knobby," I insisted.  "We have never begun a war with anyone, but we have been attacked.  The Gorn will need to defend our home."


  "No!"  he insisted.  "There isss a no-hatchling-left-behind policy to fund, and I WILL not spend any money on bigger weaponssss of war.  Violence laysss eggsss for more violence.  We would only draw an attack if we seek to defend ourssself."

  Well, things seemed grim and I felt dispair in my liver.  But then I noticed that Knobby was wearing Cuban heels and carring a Gucci handbag.  He was always a slave to fashion, that Knobby.  I think he shops with Kroma.

  "Hear! Hear!  Well spoken, Bruce!" I congratulated him.  "I wassss weak for a moment, but it isss good to know that the Law of Peace still burnssss strong in the liversss of our leadersss!"  Knobby, always a diva, preened under the attention.

  "But let usss consider fassshion," I continued.  Knobby's brow ridges creased with suspicion, but he could not resist the mention of his favorite word.  I had his attention.   "Let's look at these medium cruisssers that are all the rage.  Not a true capital ssship, and not too expensive.  But a nice two-tiered fleet concept with a path down the middle.  We can't be the only fleet without one in the ssspring.  Imagine the talk!"

  Knobby's brow ridges went from a crease of suspicion to one of worry.  "Ooh!" he worried.  "We'd be the laughing ssstock at the next Paris arms show.  Could you make the command variant pink?"

"Of course!" and I knew I had him.

"Then build us a few dozen before egg-layer's day.  We recover some costs by putting their pictures on greeting cards."

After Knobby left I turned to my chief of Royal Engineers.  "Call them medium cruisers on the plansss," I said with a wink.  "But put heavy cruiser power and gunsss on the blasted thingssss!"  He got a good laugh out of that.

When they got the bill, the Senate figured out I had snookered them, but by then we had our New Heavy Cruisers.  And I never did paint the MCC pink.  Knobby was furious.  But the same trick worked again when we needed war "destroyers".  <snicker>  The senate are such suckers.

-S'Cipio the Liar

[GDA-Agave]

Being a lover of flying bricks, I was checking out the gorn ships when I couldn't find the MCC.  There I was checking all the eras under light cruisers..  Nothing..  Just for giggles I looked under the heavy cruisers.. and ACK! There is was!  It went from being one of the best gorn ships to a medicore heavy cruiser.. 

Did the MCC get a hunck of hull and more warp to warrant this injustice?!  Gorns don't have a lot of good ships to begin with.. granted the ones they do have can hold their own very well, but to move the MCC to heavy cruiser is nothing short of an injustice I tell you!

You're not getting the MCC (medium command cruiser) mixed up with the CDD are you.    The CDD (command destroyer) is labeled as a light cruiser.

Hey, MrBad151, don't forget to join the Gorn forum over at SFC2.net.   There you will find most of the current Gorn pilots, not to mention some good links to other Gorn forums. Here's the link if you're interested.

http://www.bozobits.com/forums/index.php


Agave

P.S.   Mind if you call you Bruce?

[Mr.Bad151]

Steve.. Thanks for the snide remark.  I never expected there to be 5000 Ladder players, but I didn't see any reference to ANY ladder organization.  If any game could hold together a ladder system over 6 years it would be SFC, Star Trek fans are some of the most active and loyal there are... even if some aren't the most welcoming to returning players.

Agave, nope, I'm not getting the MCC mixed up with the CDD.  Although the CDD is a nice ship as well.  To tell you the truth I don't know if the MCC was moved to a CA class with the release of OP or has been changed by a patch or ship list.  At one time the MCC was a light cruiser, the gorn equivalent of the Fed CLC.  I thought maybe someone changed the MCC to a heavy because it was overpowered (which it might have been, but then again not all ships are created equal).

Corbomite, take a look at the CCH if you think the MCC is a good gorn heavy cruiser.

[Father Ted]

If you've been playing ladder, welcome to D2. The G-MCC is the equivalent of the F-NCC or K-D5W. It's a heavy cruiser. Right up there with the Firehawks the Roms are flying...

[Mr.Bad151]

Hmm.. I can see it filling that role.  Thanks Ted.

[Corbomite]

Corbomite, take a look at the CCH if you think the MCC is a good gorn heavy cruiser.

I never said it was a Heavy Cruiser, I said it was a Medium Command Cruiser. The CCH is a Heavy Command Cruiser which is one step up from a Command Cruiser (which is one step up from the MCC). The MCC, MC and CS variants are Heavy Cruiser loadouts on a Light Cruiser hull with larger warp engines. As such they are heavier and not as power efficient as Light Cruisers and cost 1 point to move. Since there is no Medium Cruiser section, Firesoul placed them in the CA section by move cost.

And I'd take an MCC over a CCH anyday.

[Doctor Lazarus]

Snide - Derogatory in a malicious, superior way.


Hmm...ok I guess. Perhaps that's a talent of mine, but you refer to being surprised a few times in your "surprise" post and I don't see why you should be after this many years, thus my "snideness". Also in that post you say

"Is there no replacement for Star Lance because people are afraid it would draw pilots away from D2?" 

This is where my snideness really comes from. While you likely meant no insult, it reads like you are suggesting that D2ers  out of fear of losing their player base, are somehow blocking anyones' attempt at forming a ladder league. Completely absurd from the start and I saw it as a little insulting. No future carreer as a diplomat for you or me I would guess.

Anyway, welcome back to SFC and now maybe you can see why Mr. Snide reared his ugly head.

[Mr.Bad151]

Steve, I can see how you might make my comment about D2 and ladders the wrong way.. but at this point, I would think things would be by general consensus.  There are no longer 5000 people playing the game on line anymore.  In order to save the game certain agreements have to be made.  If there are 500 players and 100 mods, then you end up with 5 people per mod and everyone gets board and quits playing.  Or.. the 500 players can get together can come up with one general mod and they community lives on.  I thought maybe at one point that everyone got together and decided whether they wanted to spend they time/energy on D2 or Ladder (a well run ladder could take as much time/work as putting a campaign up).  I also thought the ladder system would be run from a site like this, not some large multi-game site (figuring there are a lot less pilots now).  I see nothing wrong with the community deciding not to run a ladder system because it would take pilots away from D2.  If the decision is made by the community as a whole, and for the "good" of the game, it would hard to find fault in such a decision.

[KBFLordKrueg]

If you're interested in a ladder league vs D2, look here...
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/board,3250.0.html
It's the only ladder type league still running for SFC OP.
Oh, BTW...they use OP+4.0, too.

Vetern of SL, GZ and D2...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I see nothing wrong with the community deciding not to run a ladder system because it would take pilots away from D2.  If the decision is made by the community as a whole, and for the "good" of the game, it would hard to find fault in such a decision.

I don't think any community wide descision was ever made, some D2 pilots have joined in some ladder events and some ladder players have come over to the D2.  Likely more of the second case than the first, however, to my knowledge noone ever was asked not to fly in either for the good of the community, players just migrated where they choose to.  Some I believe still do both.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I see nothing wrong with the community deciding not to run a ladder system because it would take pilots away from D2.  If the decision is made by the community as a whole, and for the "good" of the game, it would hard to find fault in such a decision.

I don't think any community wide decision was ever made, some D2 pilots have joined in some ladder events and some ladder players have come over to the D2.  Likely more of the second case than the first, however, to my knowledge noone ever was asked not to fly in either for the good of the community, players just migrated where they choose to.  Some I believe still do both.

I'm one of the latter...
Was in DOA for SFC1, MFD at the start of SFC2, then joined MoK after MFD dissolved, stayed in Mok after SL died and went to the GZ site.
Stayed in MoK until it finally faded. Never even tried D2 until then. Just got tired of the asinine behavior, haggling endlessly over terms, etc.
Still have some of those in D2, but on a greatly reduced scale. 

Got heavy into D2 after I got OP and then joined KBF. I like the campaign aspect of D2 a LOT better than the single-combat do-or-die attitude of the ladder leagues, I doubt I'd ever go back to just playing ladder leagues now.
But, to each his own...

[Dfly]

some fleets, like mine, TSC, have stayed away from nearly all ladder leagues  and even the D2 community.  We were a fleet dedicated to training newbies who needed a place to go without the ladder hassles, or ranks within a fleet.  TSC has been here now for over 9 years, being developed before SFC1(that was before I was here too).  In the heyday of SFC2, TSC was involved in as many non-D2 campaigns as we could find, but due to declining numbers in all these style games, we started into Ladder leagues, teamed up with KIG.  With the numbers declining ever more, the TBR system started up and we joined in.  Numbers continue to decline, and only myself from TSC is now in the D2 comunity.  Currently i guess there is the CUGS, D2, and some GSA games, not too much more.  I loathe to give up this great game, as I am sure many of you guys are too, but some day(hopefully a long ways away) we may all have to move on. 
Until then, LET"S BE DARTHS, or death to you all   MUAHAHAHHAHA.

[Mr.Bad151]

Someday we will all move on.  Someday there will be a replacement for all the Star Trek games.  There is a good size market for ST games.  Unfortunately for the different communities, they are spread over quite a few titles.  How much healthier would the community be if all the Trek fans played only one game?  D2+D3+BC= a good number a people.  When a company finially pulls their head out and makes a worthy of Star Trek, Star Trek fans alone would make the game a "success" for the company.  It's not a matter of "if" but when, heck, I waited 10 years for SFC1 to come out.

[762_XC]

I don't think it's unfortunate at all. SFC2, SFC3 and BC are all vastly different games that cater to different styles of players. On the contrary, I think it's a Good Thing that players who look for different things in different games each have a niche in the Star Trek space combat sim world they can call home.

[FPF-DieHard]

Someday we will all move on.  Someday there will be a replacement for all the Star Trek games.  There is a good size market for ST games.  Unfortunately for the different communities, they are spread over quite a few titles.  How much healthier would the community be if all the Trek fans played only one game?  D2+D3+BC= a good number a people.  When a company finially pulls their head out and makes a worthy of Star Trek, Star Trek fans alone would make the game a "success" for the company.  It's not a matter of "if" but when, heck, I waited 10 years for SFC1 to come out.

If they made a game better than OP. I'd play it.

No game exits

[Mr.Bad151]

I don't think SFC2 and SFC3 are vastly different, although I've never played bridge command so idea on that one, but SFC2 and 3 are both naval simulators.  Both share many common tactics and stratagies.  Weapons pretty much work the same way.  There are differences, but mainly the difference is in the "feel" of the games.  I think the games are close enough that should the source code for SFC 2 OP get released, that with a few subtle changes, SFCOP could win over the SFC3 crowd.

One of the things I like about SFC3 are the interfaces.  The interfaces for both commanding a ship and on the dynaverse are far "cleaner" and far more intuitive.  Being an old SFBer, I just can't get over warping in combat.. ick.  I can do it, but I don't think I will ever like it.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

If they made a game better than OP. I'd play it.

No game exits

Strip Poker 

[762_XC]

I don't think SFC2 and SFC3 are vastly different

Well they are.