Topic: Beta Patch - Suggestions for finished patch

[Cleaven]

Okay, my turn to say I used the wrong word. Instead of saying "cry out", a better word would be to appeal or entreat for such a weapon. Anyhow I think the point has been made.    

[Cozbo]

My suggestions on a finished patched are below, after some comments.

I believe the reason most fed players are complaining is because they have become somewhat lazy in developing new offensive/ defensive strategies. Since the Romulans and Klingons cloaks were vitually useless before the patch I find it refreshing to be able to hide for once. Since they still have the weakness of rear firing weapons, which is fine with me, the better the cloak the more balanced the game. I personally think the effectiveness of the probes should also be reduced further. Anticloak should take power to run, if it does it should take more.

I have recently started playing fed more, I played rom and kling exclusively for months. I regularly beat klingons and romulans in equally matched combats. But I didnt develop  bad habits from always flying ships that were better powered, better armed, and could see through cloaks like they weren't there.  Since in most dynaverses, the feds out number the others two or three to one. As a result most cloakers have three or even four probes being fired at them and 3 or 4 anticloak scans going so it is still hard to hide a fleet of cloaked ships,even with level 5 cloaks which you cant fit on a small ship without sacrificing something else more important.  Perhaps if feds and borgs had to add anticloaks as a separate system it would further balance this effect.

I find it refreshing to be able to compete evenly for a change. The lower and middle class ships of roms and klings are still  weaker than thier fed counterparts. Only in the upper CA ships, Vorcha/ Raptor do the cloakers gain a slight edge, a reward for survival through the other classes.

I have noticed more balance in the races on dynaverse. Which is a good sign the races ships are balancing out.
BUT....here is what I would like to see:
  :the likely hood of breaking a tractor beam go up.
 :reduced effectiveness of probes in finding cloaked ships.
 :Two 360 degree weapon arcs on a Warbird instead of two rear firing arcs and one 360.
 : Improved Excelsior class primary weapon arcs
 : Admin control of crew improvement rate
 : Reduced  random maps in dynaverse to one in ten, seems like it is 80% or 90% right now. Most combats should be in open space unless the hex shows a designated hazard.
 : Reduced chances of a second ship appearing that is not in hex. You go to kill an ff and get an ff and a CA while flying a ff)
 (spending 20/30 minutes  in a combat that should have last 2) makes it hard to do real world time management when that happens.
 :Increase the chances of finding an expert or legendary officer in port, since improvement rates are way down. I am willing to trade my prestige to get them anyday now that it takes ages to train them.

THX




 

 

[kevlar]

Where are you going to get the power to overload the Quantums? A Sov that move at anything over 20 (Max) and can actually turn (.60) will only be able to hold a IX core, even with Leg crew you get 128. Give the ship IX shield and you are using 125+ and you can't even use all your weapon mass. The Rom don't even need to overload and if you get a Sci on a one to one, you're dead."

Exactly in the same way I get power to overload the primary weapons while the q-torps or polarons are reloading. Dynamic energy management. I adjust the energy all the time.

Another thing is I never mount phasers 12 except on the 360º point, rest are phasers 11 and 9 and I warp a lot also.
If I recall well, one of the SOVS I used had a consumption of 110 from 181 (or 186?) warp power. With a warp 9 core I managed to still have enough excess power to overload 3 q-torps.

Is the Sci an abbreviation for scimitar? AFAIK scimitar isn?t officially supported on dynaverse.
Don?t know how things are on GSA and the Scimitar department, since I never fly GSA, but probably against a good cloak de-cloak player a negh?var would be dead also.

---------------------------------------------------//-----------------------------------------------------

Now, Cynicforever, considering your name, are you the person I think you are? If you are the same one that faced me a good number of times in dynaverse, glad to see you again. If you aren?t then, ?hi? ? just to be pleasant.

?In the Battlecruiser and Dreadnought classes, the feds don't improve?.?

Same thing with klingons and their K?tinga and fek?lhr, whose primary weapon arcs are completely useless and engine mass limitations castrate either turn rate and speed or warp power.  And that has great impact on dynaverse, since a defiant or intrepid player can make planets attacks much faster than a k?tinga/fek?lhr one.  
Welcome to the club. The problem feds players have with the BC and DN is exactly the same that klingon players face with the CL and CA.

Everyone uses the power consumption argument. I still think the klingons got the short staff on it.  The numbers of the warp core evaluations made by several players are on my side also. Fact is that klingon players always need to mount a higher warp core then they should. Or under power their primary weapons to compensate. This exceptionally hurts theirs CL?s and CA?s . You?re free to have other opinion of course.

You have a valid argument on the fed DN versus K/R DN?s forward hardpoint issue. See, I said that the feds have a problem.
On the BC point I don?t agree with you. Still think it?s a well-deserved payback for the k?tinga & Fek?lhr.

But please, don?t put the Sphere Prime in the same league. A Sphere Prime has an almost un-scaled super plus of energy, speed and turn rate when compared with a Sov or Negh. 2 good  heavy cutting beam discharges and your shields and armour are gone. And they normally are much faster than you and turn better.  Course the borg always have a free pass in this discussions ?since they are the borg?- pretty stupid argument IMHO.

Another valid point you make is ?The patch didn't really hurt the feds too much, it just fixed problems with the romulans, and brought them to an almost equal footing with the Klingons.
 
I really thought none had the guts to say that.

Personally, I think the roms are now, pound for pound, better than the klingons, or even anyone else..  But you don?t see klingon/borg players complaining that much do you?

If you want to be objective, the problem is the combination of overloaded plasma torps +good cloak +legendary crew+ the power of good romulan warp cores+ those pesky weapon stunning beams  
It hurt feds most cause klingons can cloak and hope to regenerate their shield. Still, what happens is that the klingon player just bought a bit more time to hope for either a romulan error or a strike of luck with the anti-cloak scan. If the romulan doesn?t do that error-something that rarely happens with good rom players, or luck doesn?t come, the outcome of the fight is normally equal to the outcome of a rom versus fed encounter.


Cozbo writes:

"I believe the reason most fed players are complaining is because they have become somewhat lazy in developing new offensive/ defensive strategies. Since the Romulans and Klingons cloaks were vitually useless before the patch I find it refreshing to be able to hide for once. Since they still have the weakness of rear firing weapons, which is fine with me, the better the cloak the more balanced the game. I personally think the effectiveness of the probes should also be reduced further. Anticloak should take power to run, if it does it should take more."


Agree to what you say but don't think the effectiveness of the probes should be reduced even more.

"Only in the upper CA ships, Vorcha/ Raptor do the cloakers gain a slight edge, a reward for survival through the other classes. "
 
150% correct. And since i really only play in servers where i start with low pp and a  FF, this particular argument has capital importance for me.


 

[Firestorm]

Quote:
None of this touches on why it should be the Feds who have to have  the weapons systems which are "to be feared". Instead (probably valid) issues of game balance are cited. Is there a valid reason to have a weapon "to be feared" for any race and if so why shouldn't it be the Borg who have it? What are the reasons for choosing a race to receive such a weapon system?  

All of the heavies in SFC3 have very lousy hit rates, except for one, and that is the Fed Photons(Both regular and Quantum) have proxie settings that give them roughly a 50/50 chance of hitting the target, even at full range, which by the way, they have the longest range in the game.  This gives the Feds a MAJOR advantage.

[RAGE Cyberbeer]

 

Quote:
K torps, polarons, grav's and plamas don't have prox settings. That gives the fed the ability to choose the engament distance and to produce a distance fight pattern called saber dance. cool isn't it?
BTW, any of the previous torp users will need to be at a distance of 20 or less if they want to have good chances of hitting ( even less for plasma) . In a less than 20 distance fight i wouldn't use the prox setting.

Ahhh man, you won't believe how long I laughed after reading this delightful statement.  How little tiny laughable proxy torpedoe give feds the ability to control distance in the game?  Well, I'll have to remember this next time I can't see my enemy.  Or perhaps the next time I see a sphere prime, I'll ask the borg real nice...to be less aggressive.  

I posted awhile back about the cloak being fixed.  I felt that Feds flew out of balance once this happened.  Someone commented that I should not design my ships with all weapons facing foreward.  Since I've only been play SFC games since the first demo, I realized I know nothing of strategy.  After playing 5 months of SFC3...I have not learned a thing.  Taking the revelation advice and mounting weapons on the rear, GASP, I took her out for a spin.  Well almost instantly in the game I notice something...what does'nt Mr. Rom attack me on the sides?

Low and behold he did.  He'd simply decloak at about range 20, I would try to turn he'd fire, I'd die....he'd cloak.  I'd fire a few phasers at nothing.  

Well I tried warping around the next game....worked great til a klink Vorcha whooped my ass from long range.  I suppose he was controling range there.  I'm not saying its impossible to kill a cloaker with a Fed, but I feel like its to much work for a few points of prestige on D3, and a win on GZ for GSA.

Now next item.  You know I just started playing klingon a week ago...and I'm an expert at them already.  Have not lost one time, even found a handy tactic to prevent being hit my Q torps.  When you decloak hit the "W" button a second later...fire your load and turn.  If its done right you'll warp at an angle away or towards Mr. Fed and Q torps should never hit.  You may take a few phasers...but, BAH, their just phasers.

[Torque]

I believe the reason most fed players are complaining is because they have become somewhat lazy in developing new offensive/ defensive strategies.

-----I find it repugnant to suggest that any particular race of players is less skilled then another over the 1000+ players on the dyna.  I find many good pilots flying all races.  If you really feel this statement is correct I will show you what I can do with no shielding and an Intrepid anyday, you pick another Race CL.  Think about what it means to have to loadout a ship with no shielding and create +30 A/Velocities just to compete.  Give me a machine gun, and you take a knife, I will show you what bravery is...... is that your argument?




 QUOTE -I find it refreshing to be able to compete evenly for a change. The lower and middle class ships of roms and klings are still  weaker than thier fed counterparts. Only in the upper CA ships, Vorcha/ Raptor do the cloakers gain a slight edge, a reward for survival through the other classes.


----Herein we are in agreement, BUT DN's and BB's win Dyna's.  Witness some of the best Dyna's like GFL where its a deadheat until races get a large percentage into heavy class ships.  BANG --- down goes the federation.  I agree with you that Fed CL's are the best of any races, as a whole, but I have yet to see ppl screaming to keep that advantage.
Take the superiority of fed CL's and level it to other races.   THEN fix the Fed heavy CA/DN imbalance to level it to the other races as well.  Fair Enough?



   Not meant as a general comment to your previous post, but in general I notice the following from dynaverse players :
"...... if I have a larger ship, and you play me and I win.... Your a brave guy."    ".....if I have a smaller ship, and I leave the sector prior to a conflict.... I'm a wise captain."    ".....if you have a smaller ship, and leave the sector prior to conflict....You guys always run, and are cowards...."


 

     

[kevlar]

"-I find it repugnant to suggest that any particular race of players is less skilled then another over the 1000+ players on the dyna"

the sense  of the phrase, that isn't even mine, is not to say that X is worse that Y, but that many times fed players are keeping  the same strategy premises, independently of the alterations. And you know what? It's true. I see alot of known faces flying and fighting exactly the same way the fought before the patch.

"Take the superiority of fed CL's and level it to other races. THEN fix the Fed heavy CA/DN imbalance to level it to the other races as well. Fair Enough?"

No problem for me... you know why? cause in 90% of the situations I never go for a DN. On one of the last campaigns I played I reached  500000  prestige points and capped myself to a vor'cha. In fact In dynaverse I only used a DN when playing feds because of asthetic reasons.  Can't talk for the others though.

Problem is that people only think on dn's..dreadnoughts left and right... there are even in my logic - and I would like to re-enforce MY LOGIC,  stupid servers  where you start with a DN and 60 k pp.  The point of the game appears to be to reach a DN, no matter what, and only make a career after.

There is one point where I agree with some SFB fanatics - and I rarely agree with most of them. The point was, and i'll try to to reproduce the phrase the best I can,  that SFB is a game for cruisers not dreadnoughts or batlleships and thus the excessive number of DN's was removing the virtue of the spirit of the game.  

The best  "flyer" I faced was, if memory serves me well,  a guy named darktide  - or could it be darkmatter. Not sure, it was dark something.  on activision B. He used an akira, despite having, like me , enough PP for 4 or 5 DN's. And he won- altough I would like to point that is AI did alot of damage to my vor'cha, and if it wasn't for the  proximity q-toprs of his AI things COULD  have been diferent. I wrote could and not would. But the proximity setting clearly favored HIm in a distance fight ( read it: the polarons missed 75% of the time).

 With that akira I know that he won against   legendary crewed Negh'vars, Warbirds and I have heard he put a hell of a fight against Sphere Primes.  His flight pattern was what veterans call "saber dance" and HE DID controlled the distance of the engagement,  with the Q-torps on proximity and turning speeds of 50.


Did he always win? nope. He lost a couple of Akira's in the process. I lost a couple of vor'chas also. Sometimes we win, sometimes we loose, sometimes it just rains.

[MrCue]

and you can find darktide hiding on TNZ, come play its brilliant

[Wiz33]

Quote:
Where are you going to get the power to overload the Quantums? A Sov that move at anything over 20 (Max) and can actually turn (.60) will only be able to hold a IX core, even with Leg crew you get 128. Give the ship IX shield and you are using 125+ and you can't even use all your weapon mass. The Rom don't even need to overload and if you get a Sci on a one to one, you're dead."

Exactly in the same way I get power to overload the primary weapons while the q-torps or polarons are reloading. Dynamic energy management. I adjust the energy all the time.

Another thing is I never mount phasers 12 except on the 360º point, rest are phasers 11 and 9 and I warp a lot also.
If I recall well, one of the SOVS I used had a consumption of 110 from 181 (or 186?) warp power. With a warp 9 core I managed to still have enough excess power to overload 3 q-torps.

Is the Sci an abbreviation for scimitar? AFAIK scimitar isn?t officially supported on dynaverse.
Don?t know how things are on GSA and the Scimitar department, since I never fly GSA, but probably against a good cloak de-cloak player a negh?var would be dead also.

 

  Do you even read you you type? And what server have you been playing on. The Fed IX core gives 128 with Leg crew, and you are saying that you only use 110 out of 181 so you have pretty to overload! Eitner you are smoking something wild or you are playing on a server that use Mods.  

[MrCue]

i think the X core provides 181 with a legendary crew

[kevlar]

Sorry wiz33. I don't smoke wild stuff. I don't even  drink alchool, coffe or tea. I  should have wrote something like...

"Even when I i use a warp 9 i manage to have around 35 spare power. When i use a warp 10,  I have more than 70 to spare. "


Cueball, I believe we are talking about the same individual .
Thanks for the invitation but I don't fly on spec file modded servers. The TNZ mod looks good, and i even use some of the models, but it's not my kind of server, Things like the "wing of death" aren't my cup of tea.
 Besides, I'm not lawful good enough to respect things  like  tactical area of action or line of supply.  If i know myself well, and i think i do, I would break those rules pretty fast.  

[Wiz33]

>>>>Another thing is I never mount phasers 12 except on the 360º point, rest are phasers 11 and 9 and I warp a lot also.
If I recall well, one of the SOVS I used had a consumption of 110 from 181 (or 186?) warp power. With a warp 9 core I managed to still have enough excess power to overload 3 q-torps.<<<<

  Can you tell what core he's using from the above statement? As I said, unless you strip the shields of it, there noway to have a Sov that can move at over 20 and manuveur at over .60 with a X core. If he have to use an IX core in his example, he will be using 110 out of 128 and that wouldn't leave much for overloading. Yes you can do more if you manage the energy setting but without presets, It will be tough to do on a speed 9 server.
 

[RAGE Cyberbeer]

IMHO Feds are slightly out of balance.  With cloak being fixed, this has I will admit, thrown many feds out of whack.  I would have no problem with the cloak if Feds had a little help in the following areas.

Maneuverability- I think it is stupid for a ship to decloak aft or fore of a Federation ships.  A smart cloaker attacks the port or starboard side of the ship.  Why?  A fed may have only 1 or 2 phasers on the sides of the respective ship.  Even at that they are pretty weak phasers.  I have tried radical ship designs, from weaker armor to heavier shields which makes me slightly more maneuverable.  As I said in a prior post a ship that decloaks and hits the warp button a second later can fire all weapons and warp right over me without fear of being hit by a quantum.  While in warp, simply hit the cloak button.  Instances where I have employed this tactic my ship usually only takes less then 50 internals.  Now let?s imagine this.  The warbird is 3 times the size of a galaxy class ship.  I have seen warbirds with more maneuverability then Intrepids...  Now here are 2 enhancements for this.  

a. Increase base maneuverability for Federation ships
b. Increase anti cloak efficiency

If people would drop their shields and think about it for 1 second, how hard is it to fly around in a ship with a cloak 5?  Now I am sure you have been beaten before, I have.  Bet your win% is above or at least 70.  Now as an experienced Fed I...have played SFC1-2-OP and SFC3 since its release, I have designed many, many ships.  If I beat a cloaker 45% of the time I am doing well.  

Weapon charge- While Feds have more powerful warp cores, their weapons take more power to charge.  While plasma takes a long time to charge and takes the most power...getting hit by a ship with 3 Heavy plasmas on it will knock a Fed Cruiser to half hull.  I do not have a huge problem with this as it was the same way in SFC1 and 2.  However others have mentioned it.



Cloak- This system opens up more emotion then any other I have seen in the SFC community.  I have a certain apprehension even bringing it up because I know of the flames coming afterwards.  The truth is...Feds are afraid of cloaked ships.  Just like they were in ST: TNG.  But in TNG the cloaking races were not anxious to take on Feds either.  The deterrent was higher numbers, and well put together Federation ships.  Federation tech and genius.  In this game, if a cloaker fears a fed it?s because (s)he is a newbie.  Plasma has become the most feared weapon in the game, coupled with a working cloak...its reasonable to be afraid.  Now...is the problem cloak?  Yes and No.  This gives an extreme tactical advantage to Klink?s and Roms.  Fine, that?s how it is in the Trek world.  

My only answer is to increase anti cloak by 5%.  Right now you have a 1 in 6 chance to detect a cloaked ship.  Before it was 25%.  As cloak is now, it?s used almost exclusively.  Before Roms and Klink?s had to learn to fly with it only once in awhile.  Anyway, I welcome any suggestions.  However, this entire post is an opinion, and if you flame me for such it only shows your true colors.

I'm looking for logic as to why these things can't be implemented, not an excuse.  "Well now Cyberbeer, you feds just need to learn to fly."  

That?s childish, fight logic and debate, with logic and debate not with childish remarks.  Thank you

 

[Alexander1701]

  Cloak IS good. That's the point. But its FAR from easy to use. Detection IS pretty good. Remember that probes seek the target. When you hear that cloaking sound, fire a probe! It'll always be a direct hit, which WILL reveal them. Admitedly, you can't keep them PERMANENTLY decloaked this way, but you can fire back. It's little things like that. Anything less than cloak-5 is useless. Visit the battleclinic. You'll notice than even the FFs have cloak 5. Its necessary. You'll also notice that they have almost nothing in shields, tractor, transporter, (mostly) computer, and a lot of the time cloak.

As for power concerns, you've obviously never flown romulan. Until you reach very high levels, romulan ships tend to give you a choice.

Move, or Shoot.

That is to say that you either need to build up your warp core to max, or your non-warp. Romulan ships are by FAR the most power deficient. My first time playing them, I put together a shrike that had 1/3 of its required power. (I changed it when I noticed htis). Its a constant balancing act to get fast, effective ships. There used to be a thread about how the Warbird needed more engine space.

For this reason, most Romulan veterans will avoid the Hawk, or 'Plucked Chicken', in the same way that federation players avoid excelsior. Its just not good enough.

I realise that the Romulans are good now, but no better than anyone else. And I will say that, on average, the federation does have more newbie players than the other races, but not fewer veterans. This is manefested by the huge number of fed players on every server.

As for the quantums, they no NOT suck.

Most Romulans fear the quantum range. They almost always hit at any range. You have to be very careful to close the distance with federation players. Once again, go to www.battleclinic.com and see the Chicken ship strategies. You can be very very effective with those. Also, my brief foray into federation play has shown me the following:

You can take out bases like they're actually easier than planets. You just have to sit back, and hit them with max range quantums. Quantums always do full damage, so anything the base DOES manage to hit you with will pretty much bounce off. As an example, Romulans can't take out starbases very easily until they have a very large ship, because we have to get right in there, under the fire of all 3 platforms AND the base. Before you even suggest cloak, remember that an unshielded romulan is not a very long lasting one; we have the weakest hulls in the game.

The klingons are the only race that don;t have a hell of a lot going for them, I'll admit that. The borg have a BB, the federation the heavy DN (borg have no shields, so it averages out), and the romulans use cloak/plasma. Cloak-Ion and Cloak-Polaron just don't carry the same weight. All they have is the fact that their primaries do well at range (10-20). And yet, you see EXCELLENT klingon players, from time to time. They've adapted to it. Take a page out of their book.

But just to reiterate, don't become upset because you can't fill all of your arcs with maximum sized phasers. Its meant to provide customization. That's the point, you're SUPPOSED to be able to create a worthlessly power-defiecient ship if you aren't careful.

I agree on the warbird, though. Nothing more useless than rear-fire on romulans ships. I never put anything there.

Alexander  

[Tulmahk]

Actually, the Federation sports the very best warp cores in the game.  Of all the things to improve on a Fed ship, the warp core isn't it.

All the complaining from the Federation players boils down to one thing:  cloak works now.  Learn tactics, and deal with it.  You no longer have your Uber Probe? crutch, and you have to learn to mount a Computer V (and actually USE it's anti-cloak feature!  MANY Fed players are forgetting to do that after having been dependent upon the broken probes).  Erratic maneuvers are your friend, too.

And to all the players bemoaning the fact that they are having difficulty using their speed 80+ AMML cheese ships:  serves you cheaters right!  

[Torque]

--
Bump
-  

[Chronic]

Quote:
Actually, the Federation sports the very best warp cores in the game. Of all the things to improve on a Fed ship, the warp core isn't it.

All the complaining from the Federation players boils down to one thing: cloak works now. Learn tactics, and deal with it. You no longer have your Uber Probe? crutch, and you have to learn to mount a Computer V (and actually USE it's anti-cloak feature! MANY Fed players are forgetting to do that after having been dependent upon the broken probes). Erratic maneuvers are your friend, too.

And to all the players bemoaning the fact that they are having difficulty using their speed 80+ AMML cheese ships: serves you cheaters right!

Ummm probes still work and when you dont have a computer 5 its a real life saver it atleast give you a chance to minimize the dmg of cloak and dagger manuevers also on another note the cloak isnt entirely fixed you can still see it if their is a bright background or going over your ship oh and my request for the patch is dont let Instant Messanger programs knock you out of your game that is all

[Alexander1701]

  How to prevent instant messenger programs from crashing your games:

Step 1: Right click on the picture in the task bar (for MSN, a blue a man)
Step 2: Select 'Close', 'Exit', or 'Shut down messenger', whichever is present
Step 3: Launch the game. It will not crash as a result of messenger mesages.

But yeah. An analysis of pre-patch cores is somewhere in the back of this forum. Dig it up and you'll see that, in fact, the Federation has the best overall warp cores (in terms of power/level/what-you-can-actually-fit), the romulans have overall best power, the klingons have best power/mass, and the borg best core hp. Of those, I think having more power in legitimate tests is better.

If you think ANY ships on sfc3 are power-deficient, play sfc1, where moving takes up power. Now that's an education on power shortage.

Alexander  

[Chronic]

Goto the Messanger on the start up menu click properties then search for a icon in their called find targets then when it opens up the folder click on the folder icon and then it will tell you which folder is the folder you are looking in and from their purge it off your computer thats what I just did it should stop it though I'm keeping it in my recycle bin just to see if it screws up anything by not having the messenger program  

[CynicForever]

Quote:
Actually, the Federation sports the very best warp cores in the game.  Of all the things to improve on a Fed ship, the warp core isn't it.

All the complaining from the Federation players boils down to one thing:  cloak works now.  Learn tactics, and deal with it.  You no longer have your Uber Probe&#8482; crutch, and you have to learn to mount a Computer V (and actually USE it's anti-cloak feature!  MANY Fed players are forgetting to do that after having been dependent upon the broken probes).  Erratic maneuvers are your friend, too.

And to all the players bemoaning the fact that they are having difficulty using their speed 80+ AMML cheese ships:  serves you cheaters right!  

I don't have a problem with the cloak working now. Funny, that all I hear is that is our problem. Its not. I know tactics to combat a cloaker, and guess what? They still work even with the patch. Most opponents I faced didn't use the cloak that much, they really didn't need to.They outmatched me in firepower. The problem is that the larger fed ships can't put out the same firepower as the other races.Combine that with poor agility and speed, and you've got an imbalance.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that fed light and heavy cruisers are superior. But they don't win servers, the larger classes do. I have lost a sov about 15 times now, mostly to negs and spheres. I've tried alot of different things- orbitting the target with heavy side mounts, maxing out the rear weapons, warping around, etc. They don't work. The only thing that worked most times was the am cheese cutter, and it still works, just not as effective.

All the complaining boils down to one thing, and it's not that the cloak works. I fly romulan now, and I have no problems. When I flew a Klingon neg, nobody could touch me. I only lost it finally to a fight with a human sov and a human galaxy. Sphere prime, I had my ups and downs, but then, the borg have the cube.

Like I said, the problem isn't that the cloak works. The feds are underbalanced. Deal with it.