Topic: Star Trek: Birth of the Federation

[IndyShark]

I saw a used copy of this game on line. Does anyone know if it is any good? I am not expecting it to be as good as SFC, but I'd like to hear your thought if you've tried it.

[Doctor Lazarus]

it's a build stuff/econmy game, before you can battle and that made me give up fast. I just want to battle and not wait...

[Davey-E]

I saw a used copy of this game on line. Does anyone know if it is any good? I am not expecting it to be as good as SFC, but I'd like to hear your thought if you've tried it.

I love it, Its mega for Strategy nuts
Pity the space battles are lame but the rest is ace 

[IndyShark]

Davey, what is wrong with the space battles? Graphics of strategy?

[Dash Jones]

It's a great game!!!

I'd put it down as perhaps the second best Star Trek game/game series right after SFC.

If you've ever played Master of Orion, or Master of Orion 2 that should give you an idea of what it's like (I think it was actually made using some portion of MoO2 but I'm not positive on that).

Think...a Civilization game in Space.

You basically have to control several different elements, and it has quite a deal of getting down and handling the minute details...such as what each planet is building in support of your Empire.

You can be the Federation, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, or the Ferengi.

You also have to worry about politics.  The Federation citizens hate long periods of war...and begin to grow unhappy in those periods.  They condemn brutality, and senseless acts of violence.  As the Federation you can't just blast a planet and all it's citizens for rebellion, or newpapers will censor you...and planets and systems might even try to get out of the Federation.  On the otherhand they are happy when new members come in, or new colonies are formed.

Klingons are all about warfare on the otherhand.  In fact they grow restless when there ISN'T warfare.  Blast a planet...good job...you slaughtered their enemies.  Conquered and enslaved those feeble Trill...good job...more slaves to do the manual labor.

Romulans are more civilized in many ways...but at the same time are more into the arena of intelligence and spy networks.  If they can rogue a ship from under your feet, and get it's technology...then by golly gee...that's what they're going to try.

Cardassians are worse however.  They might not be quite as good at espionage, but in a way are a cross between the warlike Klingons...but lacking the resources...also resort to being sneaky.  However, they'll backstab each other in an instant if it gets the Empire moving forward.

Then there are the Ferengi.  Empire...bah...Conquest...bah...just show them the latinum.  It's all about trade routes and money.  If you are gaining money and earning and promoting trade...the Ferengi love you...if you start losing them business...you might find yourself on the top of every Ferengi's merchants most wanted (dead not alive) list.

The exploratin portion is great.  In many ways, it's far more treklike in that regard.  You create starships and send them out to explore the galaxy...finding and interacting with different races.  Should you encounter an enemy in space...will you attempt to blast them to kingdom come...or open hailing frequencies.  In this knowing the different ships of the series can be a great boon, as sometimes you'll know what your reaction should be (recognize that ship...it sure looks like a Klingon Bird of Prey...probably should open fire and be forceful like warriors rather then lowering shields and opening hailing frequencies).  In encountering different species, you'll find that many of them will either be more or less favorable...depending on what their reactions towards the federation were reflected in the series, as well as what you did on the first contact with them.

However, you can always seemingly bribe them...though some will take FAAAR more bribes than others...to get on their friendly sides...eventually...if you want to spend that much.

I think if you're Klingon you'll be much happier just declaring war on them and conquering their planet though.  Same might go for the Cardassians...and double boon if you already have a leg up on them.

The space combat itself however isn't even close to the depth of SFC.  You can command ships, but it's more like telling what tactics for the ship to use.  Each tactic is like a paper, rock, scissors thing, where each has it's weakness and strength against a counter tactic.  Not all ships are capable of all the tactics however...it depends on the type of ship.  Ships also have various strengths depending on their type...a freighter will be no match for a Battleship no matter what tactics it has.  It is possible however that a cruiser might be destroyed by a lesser ship depending on what technological status you have attained.

Space battles  DO gain a better interesting depth when you have a fleet of ships with several different types.  Then you can group them into squadrons...orient them into several different tactics each for an overall battlefield strategy...and utilize traps, ambushes and other items to fake out the enemy, or whatever you want with your strategies.  It's still not as deep as SFC, but it is quite the kicker to see the Sovereigns move forward to take the blunt of the blasts on their shields, whilst the nebulas go around towards the rear of the enemy, and the Galaxies swoop down below them and up towards their bellies for a surround and entrap movement.  You can have tons of different ships.

The game is more of an overall strategy on how to get the universe on your side than the smaller tactics and strategy of SFC.  The game reflects this, and in many ways is far deeper in that regard...though less in depth regarding individual ship to ship combat.

[IndyShark]

That sounds cool Dash. Thank you for the review! +1 for you!

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I think it's a great game; my second favorite Trek game after SFC.

The exploration/colonization level is good.  The tech tree design is good.

There is an outstanding diplomacy engine for a game such as this that even leaves Alpha Centauri in the dust, which is saying something since Alpha Centauri is a Sid Meir product and I think BOE predates it.

The battles I thought were actually rather good; you stand back and give general orders to your fleet, rather than take direct command of any ship.  It's good to have a mix of ship types given different orders, and always important to have a live scout ship.  (Since they let you target individual enemy, and give you an idea of what orders the enemy formations may have each combat round.)

Another coup for a strategic game like this:  It is turn based, which makes it truly excel at the multiplayer/internet game.  And yes, there is a multiplayer/internet feature for up to five players at a time.  (One for each empire:  Fed, Klink, Rom, Ferengi, and Cardasian.)

I can't recommend it enough.  If you at all like games such as Civilization or Alpha Centauri, then buy this game.  You'll like it.

-S'Cipio

[Lieutenant_Q]

I have to throw my 2 cents in here, the game is as the above people have said, good game, great concept...but where I diverge from the rest, poor execution.  The game wasn't completely play-tested, on the more advanced levels of difficulties, youd best start the Ferengi back a stage (you can start each race at different levels in the game), otherwise, the sheer number of ships that the Ferengi can buy and maintain compared to the rest will wipe the board clean, sure each individual ship is no match for even the lousy Cardassian ships, but when theres a fleet of 63 Ferengi War Cruisers charging you, it doesn't matter if they only have one forced plasma beam or seven.  In addition...if you play with Random Events on in the early eras, make sure you turn the Borg off.  The Borg in BOTF are the Borg we all know and love (the Pre-Voyager Borg) they can tear apart a fleet of 39 Federation Starships, and unless your really up in the tech tree (Sovies, Gal-Xs) there wont be anything left of your fleet and the Borg ship will keep going. A Friend and I used to play games on a network with the two of us, starting from the very beginning (everyone on Tech Level 1) and the winner, was whoever found the Edo and got them to join your empire as a member. (A glitch prevented the Edo Guardian and a Borg Cube from occupying the same sector, so while the Borg ravaged the rest of the map, the Edo are left untouched)  There is an option in the botf.ini file to turn the Borg off while leaving the Random events on. (one such random event we found was rather funny "Negative Planet shift in Sol sector, Sol III is now a barren world")  One further thing, large fleet engagments (eg the Ferengi vs anyone) had a tendancy to crash the game unless you let the battle auto-fight, which is never a good idea, ive seen fleets get wiped out by fleets half their size with the auto-fight.  Also, when you make first contact with an alien species, unless you KNOW they aren't going to attack, never click "Open Hailing Frequencies" if they do attack, your forces will be destroyed, or forced to retreat, or both.

[Iceman]

No offense, but if you think the combat in this game is anything but sub-par I've got to ask what you're smoking. The orders do NOT matter, its either 'evasive action', 'fight' or 'run away'.

The rest of the game is okay, the diplomacy isn't horribly deep, and once you figure out the basics you'll be making treaties left and right, but full alliances are still tough to work out. 

Thats just my opinion. theres a fair number of mods and fan-patches out there too so keep your eyes open.

[Dash Jones]

?

I know that if you do an assault and I do a circle maneuver that you might just have a destroyed ship...

I think it's not half as deep as SFC...but I think it might just be a tad deeper than what you are stating...especially with fleets.

Of course if you want a better deeper tactical game in a Strategy game...I highly suggest Space Empires IV Gold.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

The warnings about the Borg are fair.  I had actually forgotten about that, as I tended to turn the Borg off when playing against live opponents.

You may very well want to turn off the Borg.  A single Borg cube can wipe out your entire empire, and all your neighbors, and the darned things start to mulitply if you let them eat planets.  The only thing meaner than a Borg cube is two Borg cubes.  Be afraid.

You also need to make sure you get the official patch.  If you don't, the game will play slower and slower as it progresses until it grinds to a halt.

I rather liked the combat.  <shrug>  I found uses for all (seven or so) orders you could give a fleet element in combat.  Perhaps my strategies were more complex than I needed them to be, but they did seem to work.   It's *not* as complex as SFC, or even Eve, but it isn't supposed to be.

The things I love about the diplomacy system is that you can keep track of how well-recieved you are with other races, that there are many relationship levels for trade and military cooperation, and that your actions with one race affect all the other races.  How you present your case when you send your offer seems to make a small difference in how it is received.  Most other games (even Civ and Alpha) you are either at war, allied, or neutral, and you've no idea if your actions are hurting or helping this relatiionship.  Also, nothing short of a membership race is ever really safe in BOF.  Other empires can court your allies away from you, and the allies can just leave if they decide they don't like the fact that you treat someone else better, or if they decide they don't like your policy of orbital bombardment on someone else.

-S'Cipio

[Dracho]

It was made by the same Quicksilver team that made M002.  It is basically Master of Orion 2 set in the Star Trek Universe.  Definitely worth $10.

[IndyShark]

Cool, thanks guys. I loved MOO2 so I will have to get this!

[Lieutenant_Q]

When I start on Starting level 4 or 5, we almost always keep the Borg on.  As once we find each other, and find a cube, we sign one of those Affiliation treaties and rally at a point near the Cube.  The problem, is the Borg do not follow standard movement rules the way all the other ships and monsters do.  They can jump from one end of the map to the other in one turn.  The only way to keep them in one place, is to make sure theres a lot of people on the the planet they're sitting over, which invariably leads to more cubes so...

If you don't stop the Borg early, the game is essentially over, I've seen the map crawling with seven Cubes before.

[Mog]

I found that the cloaking device rules the game. The first strike capability of a fleet of Rom or Klingons can wipe out a Cube before it can even fire.

Good game though, but haven't played it for years.

[IndyShark]

Hail Moggy! How are you my friend! I have not heard from you for a long time! I hope all is well

[Dash Jones]

I've played Rom with BotF and did away with a cube similar to how you describe with a fleet of ships.

[Iceman]

I used to play with a more canon shiplist. I let the GalX and Defiant cloak, added a handful of cloaks to klingon ships and let ALL romulan ships cloak (transports, etc). Made things much easier when it came to the Borg.

[Overmind]

I liked BotF a lot.
The interface was a little hard-to-figure-out at start, but when I got used to it it was really good playing.

[IndyShark]

I have been trying to pick up a copy on eBay but the prices have been out of this world! I'll keep looking

Anyone want to trade BOTF for Civ4?