Topic: Discussion on Dyna went wierd

[Pestalence_XC]

While logged in on the Dyna.. our forces noticed that a coordor was built in middle Nebula hexes...

I also noticed that the person working on the Nebula is in a CL.. which is NP

However last night, I found some players running HC's in center nebula hexes that were there color...

They had thought that if the hexes were no longer neutral but under their control, then they could fly what they wanted in them..

Given this piece of information, I asked Soth if they knew that the center map nebula hexes were CL and smaller only..

I think that this was misconstrued as an accusation...

Zodiac jumped into the discussion and was being vigalent, yet out of context on the discussion..

Zodiac, Soth.. what I was saying on the Dyna is this..

Some players on BOTH sides do not understand the Center Map Rules completely.. They see a HC can not fly in Neutral Nebula Hexes and that is it..

Meaning literally that once the hex is flipped to a color, they thought they could fly in them..

My question to Soth was indicative to this situation, not directed at Soth himself.

Zodiac made accusations of me being a rules monitor and that I started something.. which I did not..

Chutt and I have both been watching the rules on the server and both have been correcting each other on rules clarification...

Zodiac stated that I had a problem and should contact my RM... the thing was no problem was there to begin with at time of discussion, and as such all I did was ask a question... this is what happens when someone jumps into a car (discussion) moving at 100 MPH..

I play the game for fun.. I was just asking to make sure that players were being honorable in ensureing that the people on their team were aware that all nebula hexes in the center map, reguardless of color were CL class and lower only..

If I was wrong in asking this, then I appologize..

[Doctor Lazarus]

It was taken as an accusation as the words you use here are NOT the words you used on the dyna and I will attach my screen shot. You do not address our sides' awareness with the "they" you use in your posting here, you say " Soth, You know the path you are making, only CLs can travel it right?" I see that and note that Soth is in a CL, so I jump in wondering WTF is this about? If you had ACTUALLY said does your side understand etc. I would have taken that differently. It's all in the word choice and I make no appology for getting my back up to what you actually posted. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Be nice or I'll beat you both in the head with a shovel (hexx can't reach)

[Doctor Lazarus]

    There's been too much crap on this server. 

[FPF-Paladin]

Well, I wasn't there at the time of the discussion (so right away we can place this partially on my shoulders    )  but I don't see anything wrong or out of line with what Pestalence wrote or did.

I know my personal opinion doesn't have much to do with this but I view this particular player very highly, and I can't imagine his doing anything intentionally dishonorable in the game or in dealing with the opposing side... I'm sure it was only what it appeared to be; a friendly question.

That said; I'd rather take the brunt of this one because I'm the one who is supposed to be 'rules monitoring' (I've been taking care of some extra work this weekend to give me a lot more free time this week) so if we could perhaps take this off the public forums via PMs I'd be more than willing to help smooth this out 

[Doctor Lazarus]

"you" makes it specifically accusatory. He did not say they as the screenshot shows, so so much for "but I don't see anything wrong or out of line with what Pestalence wrote or did." Note Soths' response as well indicating that at least intitially, he perceived it as an accusation as well.  Sorry Paladin, I appreciate your stepping in when no one else would, but I have seen more crap on this server than any other d2 I have played on and while my side has screwed up some, I think we come off smelling a whole lot better and I'm tired and disgusted.   

[FPF-DieHard]

   There's been too much crap on this server. 

hexx is running it, What do you expect?   

[Doctor Lazarus]

screw the negative karma and actually think about it!

[Pestalence_XC]

If you notice in your screen shot.. I stated that I noticed others last night using HC's in center map nebulas..

Maybe my approach was wrong, but that is the topic I was trying to talk about..

I may have misphrased my statement to Soth.. I knew he was in a CL... I do not know if everyone playing the server knows that HC's are prohibited from Center Nebula hexes reguardless of color.. I'm not a mind reader...

I agree that I should have started my statement a bit more clear.. My appologies on that..

However, Some players are under the impression that since HC's can fly Nebulas in their home space, that once Neutral hexes switch colors to their side, that they can fly HC's in them as well, wich they can not..

I was attempting to find out if you side has made it clear to all your players concerning the rules on center hex nebulas, not accuse someone of breaking any rules.. I caught 2 players for our side night before last that was unaware of the fact...

I'm not accusing anyone because both sides have fudged some rules.. I'm just trying to help keep everyone honest..

Not if you took my attempt the wrong way, I appologize... My suggestion is to read what I typed and not read INTO what I typed.. Do not put words or intentions on me that I didn't have...

If I find someone breaking the rules.. ask those I caught breaking them.. I am the first to hit them on it..

Besides it is just a friggin game.. not real life, don't take it personally..  Once I chew people on the rules, I forget about the incident and let it drop and keep playing.

If you were offended I appologize.

[Doctor Lazarus]

I read what you typed, it speaks for itself. That you get specific about HCs later, fine. However, where and when I jumped in, it is clear and you can't fudge it that you said "you" not they, so I jumped in. I'll take it that it was not your intention. As far as reading into versus what you typed. it's right there in the shot, so don't give me "My suggestion is to read what I typed and not read INTO what I typed."

[FPF-Paladin]

Well, I did think about it... to be honest I try not to overanalyze the exact wording of anything on the internet though.  Unless I am really to believe the whole being pregnant comment at the end of the screenie it doesn't look as if you yourself were very worried about it either? 

Now, that last bit is joking (of course), but unless I think to myself that where you wrote 'pregnant' probably meant 'patient' then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  *shrugs*  Certainly not what was probably meant exactly though right?

Seriously though - I really think maybe there have been enough accusations of rules breakage/bending that maybe everyone (general statement only) is getting touchy about them now.  And yes; there have been problems on both sides.  To be honest I suspect the actual number of people doing anything wrong is pretty low and probably is mostly people not on voice comms with the majority of us.  I have accounts of pilots on both sides admitting to knowing better when asked about what they were doing too.  All I know is that 1) a good part of what I'm expected to do is make sure these things don't happen and 2) iron them out afterwards so we can get on to Having Fun again.  I couldn't be there at the time for #1 but there's nothing preventing #2.

How about PMing me about what's bothering you (this and whatever else, I honestly don't mind) and we can discuss it and any ideas anyone has on how to keep all the speedbumps to a minimum for the last half of the campaign?

[Doctor Lazarus]

Oh and as for pilots thinking that they can fly bigger than CLs in their home space nebulae:

The Rules
1) The Basics

Players may fly only one ship at a time.

Any ship that appears in the yards may be purchased and played
- The only limitations are ONE DN and TWO Carriers on per side at any one time.

You may not place a base adjacent to any other base or planet (allied, enemy, or neutral).

Do not attack the Mirak,or Hydran hexes! These races are required to exist in the game to prevent server errors.

The middle map Nebula hexes are to chaotic to be traversed in anything heavier then a CL. CA's and up must use the "safe" path consisting
of the black hole hexes. Nebulas NOT in the center span can be safely entered by any ship.


Note any ship CAN enter a nebula not in the center span that is chaotic space. So....

[Doctor Lazarus]

...you've been telling our players they can't fly bigger ships in our home nebs when the rules say yes they can....

[FPF-Paladin]

"you" makes it specifically accusatory. He did not say they as the screenshot shows, so so much for "but I don't see anything wrong or out of line with what Pestalence wrote or did." Note Soths' response as well indicating that at least intitially, he perceived it as an accusation as well.  Sorry Paladin, I appreciate your stepping in when no one else would, but I have seen more crap on this server than any other d2 I have played on and while my side has screwed up some, I think we come off smelling a whole lot better and I'm tired and disgusted.   

All right then; between this and the other messages I have received, I'm left with very few options as to how to settle this and make things better for both sides.

If that's the case, I'm sorry they were confused.  I can assume now that it's been cleared up for the Federation side now though?  It certainly is for the Terrans.

I don't know how else to make things better for everyone as a whole unless I volunteer to spend the rest of this server only ever checking for violations, not flying at all (which is pretty much what the past three or four days have been for me) and being a spectator :/.  It's not what I hoped for an outcome but people are getting too upset.

[Barack Beard]

Zodiac, relax

Pesty's remarks looked pretty cool to me, he is an honorable pilot and all around good guy.

I have personally asks him to report to me if he saw anything funny on our side so that I can help correct any violations that we have, and clarify when there is a misconception.  I applaud any foe who inquires about any percieved suspicious actions by our side in such a civil manner as in his post.  There is no profanity, no anger, no name-calling, and no personal or team attacks.  If he used a word or two that sounded a bit accusatory I don't think anyone should take offense as I'm certain no harm was meant by it.  Its not like he said "You guys are cheating" or something.  If we took issue over every little word typed we'd spend more time arguing than playing.

So as your teammate I ask you to let it go.

Thanks

[Doctor Lazarus]

Zodiac, relax

Pesty's remarks looked pretty cool to me, he is an honorable pilot and all around good guy.

I have personally asks him to report to me if he saw anything funny on our side so that I can help correct any violations that we have, and clarify when there is a misconception.  I applaud any foe who inquires about any percieved suspicious actions by our side in such a civil manner as in his post.  There is no profanity, no anger, no name-calling, and no personal or team attacks.  If he used a word or two that sounded a bit accusatory I don't think anyone should take offense as I'm certain no harm was meant by it.  Its not like he said "You guys are cheating" or something.  If we took issue over every little word typed we'd spend more time arguing than playing.

So as your teammate I ask you to let it go.

Thanks

Frankly, this "Discussion on Dyna went wierd" post should never have been started here in the first place, if  per regular dyna conduct rules Pesty had taken his concerns to his RM and allowed his complaint/concersn to be worked out through the 2 sides' leaders, not posted publicly here where it was bound to draw a response. This point should not be lost just because my tone was too hot in reply. Had it gone the RM route as it should have, this thread and it's various exchanges would never had happenned.

Thanks

[Barack Beard]

Good point Zodiac,

I agree that the proper RM channels are the best way to handle things, however they are not always the fastest.  Therefore I can understand Pesty's intent in trying to bring players to understand the rules as quickly as possible to minimize violations.  That being said, using player names in the post as he did was bound to bring a response and was likely not the best way.  I think it would likely have been better for him to make a post, but to keep it limited to the message of a friendly reminder to all player about the exact nature of the rules without examples or any names being named.  That information should have been reserved for a PM to the RM IMHO.  I'm glad Zodiac brought up this aspect of the situation so that we all can consider it and learn from it, and I salute his expression of this concern in a very matter-of-fact way devoid of hositility.  That is the kind of post that brings attention without flames.

There are no bad guys on this one, just some slight misunderstanding and minor breaches of protocol so lets learn from this one and move on as no real problem is here that each side hasn't already admitted to their own part in.

[Doctor Lazarus]

lol, my karma went down again and I thought I was making a good point....

[FA Frey XC]

Perhaps it's not the point, it's the manner in which you are making it.

[Doctor Lazarus]

Perhaps it's not the point, it's the manner in which you are making it.

My initial manner in how I responded to this thread has been acknowledeged and addressed. The most recent thing I am referring to is this thought:

Frankly, this "Discussion on Dyna went wierd" post should never have been started here in the first place, if  per regular dyna conduct rules Pesty had taken his concerns to his RM and allowed his complaint/concersn to be worked out through the 2 sides' leaders, not posted publicly here where it was bound to draw a response. This point should not be lost just because my tone was too hot in reply. Had it gone the RM route as it should have, this thread and it's various exchanges would never had happenned.

Thanks

I see nothing wrong in the manner that this was posted in and it was followed by the negative karma that I refer to in the post immediately above yours Frey...