Topic: SFC UAW...just some impressions

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Thanks to Pestalence I was able to download UAW and finally play it online PVP.

Well all I can say this thing is the "mother" of all mods.

This game plays much differently than SFC OP.  More like SFC III.  If SFC III had been redone this is the way SFC III should have been played built (just add in revserse and "warp" and perhaps the ibvisible cloak...it would have sold a lot better I think.  Players like to play it at speed 10 with reduced shields and then reinforce their shields 360 around...the shield graphics have been altered to accommodate a slightly different color scheme. 

Ships have outrageous power curves but as you play the game things play out well enough into what seems like an engaging tactical milieu.  I can't say exactly how advanced tactics play out in this game but there are definitely different dynamics to observe.

For example the most fighters I have seen so far is two.  They seem to be pretty tough and I was only using the base ones.   Were they fighters or PF's?  I dunno the game was moving so fast I had little time to look and see.  Hit and Runs seem like a very smart thing to do as soon as you can since many of the weapons have massive multiple hard points.  I’m not so sure the “mining” tactic is all that useful except against annoying fighters whose AI will try to steer them clear of them.

The power management panel will see new life; the energy dynamics in the game force a whole new set of priorities.  For example I noticed a number of the better, more experience players making use of the "anchor" tactic so they could deliver massive plasma strikes.  I figured I might counter this by setting my repels to 5 (something you never have power to do in most SFC OP ships).  I did it but still got tractored even though I figured that would be impossible.

It wasn’t a cheat.  My tractoring had been preempted by a massive alpha strike that lowered my shield reinforcements down to nothing and the massive amount of energy it took to bring those shield back up to their "maxxed" setting knocked out my level 5 repels.  That is the first time I have ever had that happen before on a healthy ship, before then stuff wouldn't work when your ships was half dead or about to be killed with 4 points of power.     

So new tactical setting...place your tractor beam priority on One...a setting I have never considered using since the dynamics of the regular game rarely allowed for that setting to be necessary.  But in UAW you can use MAX settings on just about everything for most of the ships.  While this seems cheesy the real challenge comes when your shields (under constant attack) start creating a “pulsing effect” on your ship’s power needs that tends to do interesting and sometimes unpredictable things.

I’m not sure I have a future as a PVP player in UAW.  My own misgiving is that the ultimate advanced tactics in UAW might boil down to finding the “biggest gun” and just setting your ship to continuous fire until your opponent is dead.  Whether the end state of UAW plays out that way or not is a matter of conjecture.  For me I’m more interested in observing the way the game plays than playing PVP in UAW.  I was not able to get any “films” of the matches I played online so maybe the game film mode does not work.  Also some of the players told me that the “ship regenerate” had been accelerated.  But I wasn’t aware that ships could ever regenerate their internals by themselves.  After I took an opponent about ¼ down on the hull bar they were back up to 100% in a matter of a few turns.  If players can miraculously regenerate their internals that way I have little future playing in that arena.  I noticed the AI can’t seem to do it and neither can I.

One thing is for sure I have already found playing UAW in single player mode is quite a bit of fun.  Since I’m a noob at the new dynamics I’m nearly as dumb as the AI…well not quite so dumb. 

Thanks Chris for all your work on this.

The package I downloaded sets up a bunch of handy batch files that have other mods on them.  One downside to UAW is that it does leave some residual effects on your system as you switch back to SFC OP 4.0.    I used another mod, SFC OP by Bonk, to “wash” some of the effects out and it worked somewhat.  Some of those "mouse icons" stick with you when you switch to other mods...the Gorn icon used in UAW turns in a "claw" that is really a black cube, not particularily easy to use.  But other than that you should be able to play UAW without any undue negative effects.

[DIFJosh]

well UAW will be going through another compulation and refinement soon. We will be adding in Pestalence's work, an Update by Neo/Chris Jones/Curt Hill and others from the CU-Team (Consortium Unlimited Producers of the UAW MOD)
Again Thank You the Community for Keeping Star Trek Gaming Alive
You heard it here First from your SFC Community Angel :cuteange:

DIFJosh

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

well UAW will be going through another compulation and refinement soon. We will be adding in Pestalence's work, an Update by Neo/Chris Jones/Curt Hill and others from the CU-Team (Consortium Unlimited Producers of the UAW MOD)
Again Thank You the Community for Keeping Star Trek Gaming Alive
You heard it here First from your SFC Community Angel :cuteange:

DIFJosh

Thanks Josh.  Seems like a lot of work has gone into this and I didn't know so many others were involved.  I wish I had started off from the beginning where I could see its evolution and be a little further along in tactics than I am right now...which is  basically at the beginner level.  So my view of the game is from the entry level. 

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Just one more thought.  This really is not on the DEVs but I am thinking that the "speed 10" games I played might serve to drive people away from this mod as much as attract some.  For an SFC OP vet who likes the tactical side of the game and the "skills" that come with both experience and reflection the speed 10 "fly on instinct mode" may be a turn off.

For the noobie spending time trying to figure out weapons arcs, setting weapon group, and the usual other stuff at the start of a game it can also be an instant turn offl;  during one game I was still busy trying to set my weapon groups (lots f phaser 4's in this game that need to be regrouped with phasers) when i was under attack.

Of course the solution to this is to host my own games...


I'm just curious though are you CUGs guys using speed 10 as a convention during tournaments?

[DIFJosh]

well because of Lag issues speed has become negotiable. We also would like to Thank and expound upon Bonk who's done alot of work on UAW and helped Chill create the Dynaverse Server for UAW. CUGS thanks all of the DynaNet Gang for their Support of UAW and wouldnt mind seeing future collaborations on Games. On a Side Note, I personally would love for FireSoul to take a hard look at UAW and see what benefit his expertise could bestow upon UAW " The Final Version"

Again Thank You the Community for Keeping Star Trek Gaming Alive
You heard it here First from your SFC Community Angel :cuteange:

DIFJosh

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Ya seems like we are blessed with some talented people keeping our community alive.  Be kind of cool to combine some of these talents.

[Corbomite]

So new tactical setting...place your tractor beam priority on One...a setting I have never considered using since the dynamics of the regular game rarely allowed for that setting to be necessary.

With everything left alone, i.e. set at all fives, the preset Energy Management puts Tractors at top priority when activated (as far as affectable systems go) so your unecessary setting is the way you have been playing it alll along. I almost never mess with the energy priorities. The one's Taldren programed work best in almost all situations. The only one I ever change is the EW one if I always want to have EW up so I don't have to wait for it to build up.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

So new tactical setting...place your tractor beam priority on One...a setting I have never considered using since the dynamics of the regular game rarely allowed for that setting to be necessary.

With everything left alone, i.e. set at all fives, the preset Energy Management puts Tractors at top priority when activated (as far as affectable systems go) so your unecessary setting is the way you have been playing it alll along. I almost never mess with the energy priorities. The one's Taldren programed work best in almost all situations. The only one I ever change is the EW one if I always want to have EW up so I don't have to wait for it to build up.

So what is the default priority for the rest?

(Hmm forot about suicide and ww shuttles)

1)  Holding penalty shuttles

2) Tractors...

3) Weapons...(well...actually there might be split between charging and holding)...Holding

4) Movement...

===============

Weapons Charging?

ECM/ECCM?

Shields?

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

So new tactical setting...place your tractor beam priority on One...a setting I have never considered using since the dynamics of the regular game rarely allowed for that setting to be necessary.

With everything left alone, i.e. set at all fives, the preset Energy Management puts Tractors at top priority when activated (as far as affectable systems go) so your unecessary setting is the way you have been playing it alll along. I almost never mess with the energy priorities. The one's Taldren programed work best in almost all situations. The only one I ever change is the EW one if I always want to have EW up so I don't have to wait for it to build up.

Actually there might be a few uses for it if you had time to set and use them.

But lets face it in a speed 10 game that may not be possible most of the time.

[IndyShark]

UAW is a very cool mod. If there is an updated version coming, I can't wait!

[Corbomite]

Using te Shift+Scroll Lock feature you can save your priority settings for each ship you fly. So if you like changing them around at least you don't have to do it every time. Anything that is saved with Shift+Scroll Lock that is changed during the game will be immediately reinstated by pressing Red Alert.

The default priorities are:

1) Life Support (Unchangeable)

2) Fire Support Scanners (Unchangeable - I think. Going to Green Alert may turn it off, but the energy is mixed in with the shield's energy and is hard to discern if there)

3) Shields (Unchangeable unless you go to Green Alert. The entire shield grid can be turned off for more power. Turning off individual shields has no effect on power)

4) Transporters (Unchangeable. Either they are a constant draw or cost no power; the jury is still out on that one. Either way they have no effect on useable energy, but if they do cost they belong here)

5) Held Weapons/Wild Weasles/Charging Probes/Long Range Sensors (Unchangeable)

6) Cloaking Device (Unchangeable when activated)

7) Tractor Beams (Changeable in Energy MFD except for Defensive Tractors which are unchangeable when activated)

8 ) Movement (Changeable in Energy MFD)

9) Phasers (Changeable in Energy MFD, but they still have top priority as far as the weapons go. Turning the Phasers off or turning the Phaser Capacitor all the way down is the only way to give the Heavy Weapons a higher priority within the Weapons domain. This of course assumes a charging state)

10) Heavy Weapons (Changeable in the Energy MFD. The HW on each ship have their own pecking order as long as power is available to charge at least one of them; for example an I-CCZ will charge the PPD's first,  S-Torps second and I-Torps last in whatever way it can given available power. Shutting off Hard Points is the only way to manipulate this)

11) Electronic Warfare Sensors (Changeable in the Energy MFD)

12) Shield Reinforcement (Changeable in the Energy MFD)

13) Battery Recharging (Unchangeable)

[Chris Jones]

Thanks Rondo, Corbomite, and Indy.

As Josh said, UAW will be updated at some point. The hull regeneration thing may be a result of the OP engine reacting oddly to the high power settings in UAW. Ironically, when this mod was simply called, 'The TNG Mod for OP', fast hull regeneration was not a problem. There were no SFB races, except ISC. In beta testing for UAW, We decided that a lot of the races needed higher power settings to keep the large numbers of weapons charged. I am thinking now that this has caused our fast hull regeneration problem as the game engine is having trouble with the high power. This theory was advanced to me by Pestalence, and I agree.

UAW will be going into beta again, so that we may test our theory. I will be reducing power on the late and advanced era heavy cruisers and dreadnoughts, because those are the ones with the really high power settings causing the problems. Also in the works is a model size file made for this mod. Thats A LOT of tedious work, and since I now have a real life job, with 50+ hours a week, it's a slow process. If it gets to the point of me saying, 'what are my kid's names again?', then I'll have to cut back more. I had little or no income for a long time, and that served to harden me a bit and make me a bit sarcastic, and there's still a chance that I will vanish for a while.

During the course of my modding of SFC since 1999, I have never been in a fleet or been concerned with fleet points and those sorts of things. Many of the UAW players are, thus causing us to look further at the remaining bugs that exist. Wait - I was in STOC with my brother once, disobeyed a direct order and charged my Hydran heavy into a bunch of Lyrans. I died - and was promptly court-martailed. hehe. The Fleet Leader was not my friend after that. I prefer to remain independent and not in any fleet. It's because of the desire to play a fast SFCOP game (UAW). Most fleets now use 4.0 or a variation of it. 4.0 is pure brilliance, by the way. Just to be clear - I much prefer OP to SFC3 - although I want to update my TNG Mega Mod sometime in my life.

Anyway.. the point here is that UAW was not tested in fleet settings until very recently, and that's when the complaints of fast hull regeneration were turning up. We are working on it.

This one bug has caused many people to stop playing UAW, which I find rather disheartening to be honest.  ??? Some people who used to swear by it are giving it up for other mods, at least that's what it seems like to me. What I might be seeing - perhaps - is a resurgence of a lot of old timers back into the game, and they start with 2552 and 4.0. If that's the case, then YEA! 

I appreciate the massive support that Universe at War has enjoyed, and I do tend to think that more people play it single player than multiplayer. You ought to try it with Co-Op ace 4.0. That is the most fun - apart from the UAW Dynaverse - that you can have in SFC - Massive TNG fleet action - that's what makes a good Star Trek game in my opinion. UAW is shaped to my vision of what I see and hear in the TV shows and movies, and I am glad that many have enjoyed that vision. 

More to come - as time progresses..

 - Chris

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Thanks Chris for your response and concern.

Well don't be disheartened my kid loves this mod.  The sound and graphics seem to appeal to her. 

All right perhaps UAW is not ready for prime time serious ladder match play and perhaps it is.   If many will recall SFC1 played with a number of "beneficial bugs" like the fast load and the "het and fire" bug and still was a rocking ladder match success.

The problem is not with UAW but with the ladder match league to an extent.  I'm a serious player of SFC OP.  I'm not a world-beater by any means but I can hold my own with any pilot out there if you play me a long series of games with no camping rules.  It took years to bring my skill levels up to a certain level and master or at least become proficient at a handful of races.  I suspect other players are like me, and I think it most vets except the hard corps ladder match addict who plays compulsively are loathe to have their record and skills misrepresented to the community.

That’s a long winded way of saying as long as UAW and SFC OP records are combined   in any ladder leagues totals there will be many players reluctant to take on UAW in ladder match play.  UAW plays so differently than SFC OP that some players will have to reset all their notions about strategy and tactics.  Going from Late era to ADV era is nothing compared to going from ADV to UAW...it is just a whole new ball game.  Add to that the fact the grim prospect of a VET having to relearn the game bugs against players (he formerly beat regularly in SFC OP lets say) or who know how to take advantage of a few game bugs and make him look foolish....well you see my point. 

My advice to ladder leagues...break out UAW as it's own game.  For myself I'm willing to go 0-100 in an effort to get the knack of playing UAW but I don't want my level of skill in SFC OP being distorted by that kind of thing.

So I don’t think it's a problem with UAW.  The bugs may exist and there will always be players that exploit them.   I suppose they will either play with them (and they will become of a part of the game like the SFC1 bugs were) or the mod will have to be re-conceptualized (or debugged) with perhaps half the weapon load outs and half the power we see now to where the bugs are not so pronounced.

In the meantime it’s still a lot of fun to play it.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

I appreciate the massive support that Universe at War has enjoyed, and I do tend to think that more people play it single player than multiplayer. You ought to try it with Co-Op ace 4.0. That is the most fun - apart from the UAW Dynaverse - that you can have in SFC - Massive TNG fleet action - that's what makes a good Star Trek game in my opinion. UAW is shaped to my vision of what I see and hear in the TV shows and movies, and I am glad that many have enjoyed that vision. 

More to come - as time progresses..

 - Chris

It's a TERRIFIC single player mod.  I've played it single player every day since installing and have already wasted a hefty sum of my life force. 

As I said before who can know what the "end state" of such a mod will be in the PVP realm?...but it is probably worth the effort to find out.  Who knows maybe it will find an ultimate nitch in SPACE HOCKEY or bring new life to little used scripts.  I’ve had a ton of fun playing it in Bfest already, and a good way to learn new ships in one sitting.

And in defense of your concept.

The mod itself is actually a fairly real dynamic on true warfare.  In real life history nations built ships based on theory and conjecture.  They never really knew what would happen when they went into action since in reall life they did not have 100% understanding of what they really faced.  It only took a few minutes for the crew of the Hood to realize they were up against a ship (the Bismark) that had a faster and more accurate firing rate, greater range, but no adjustments could be made by then...unless you were adjusting things with your maker.

These two passages from perhaps histories greatest "2v2" illustrate my point...

The Germans were shocked to learn that the approaching vessels were not cruisers – they were in fact major combatants – a King George V class battleship (which they assumed was KGV herself, as Prince of Wales was thought to still be working up) and even worse, the famed and feared battle cruiser H.M.S. Hood (apparently the men aboard Bismarck knew it was Hood before the crew of Prinz Eugen). Her legend and reputation were great and she was well respected in the Kriegsmarine. This is backed-up by the statements of Bismarck crew who were later quoted as saying that Hood, in particular, was the 'terror of their war games'.

...a situation which quickly changed to this when they finally engaged...

Vice-Admiral Holland (HMS Hood) must have realised that the situation was getting desperate: The Germans had already found the range and Hood was taking hits. He was also suffering casualties on the burning shelter deck. Worst of all, neither of his own ships appeared to be scoring any decisive hits on the enemy. Hood, having made the error of initially opening fire against the wrong ship was only now getting the correct range for Bismarck. Things were going horribly wrong – he needed to improve his odds.

For us PVP guys that are looking for a single player challenge and a "sense" of the unknown then this mod has no problems whatso ever "delivering" just that and extending the game still further.

[Ravok]

 Rondo I helped Beta test it. I like to play it on game speed 11 . We ought to go to lame spy sometime and slug it out.

 I love it its a hoot!!!!

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Rondo I helped Beta test it. I like to play it on game speed 11 . We ought to go to lame spy sometime and slug it out.

 I love it its a hoot!!!!

Im on almost every day.  KOG Rondo...

[Chris Jones]

Universe At War is again in beta testing to address the bugs in the official patch - lookin' good.

Stay tuned..   

[VelvetAcidChrist]

uaw is just a mod... it# s quite cool but for an old sfc vet its just too much arcade and skillless speed 31 full overload gameplay.

[Chris Jones]

Not always - It is just a different style of skill and strategy.

[VelvetAcidChrist]

well i have to agree - but the new gameplay and skillmis not compatible to the old sfc:op mechanics and therefore i dont like it...much