Topic: Mirror Rules

[Hexx]

Background:
By 2265 the Terran Empire has found itself fighting a war it can not win. While it has subdued and subjugated the Kzin, Gorn,
Klingons, and most of the other Empires, the Lyran Empire under the brilliant and stunning leadership of Warlord Hexx has defeated it time and time again.
As citizens on countless occupied planets rise in rebellion, sacrificing themselves so that Hexx doesn't have to spen quite so much time saving their worthless hides, the Empire realizes it needs new and easier places to conquer.
Reading the report of a minor Starship captain; executed for gross incompetence,the Emperor deiceds the only thing a fleet of Evil Carebears can conquer is
a Universe of Good Carebears.
By 2268 the Empire has assembled a vast network of bases stretching almost the entire inner length of hte Empire. These bases, when activated will use some sort
of tachyon thingamajig to tear a hole in the time space continuim, allowing access to the other Universe.
Unfortunately,for the Empire, just as the fleets are assembled and the stations start to emit fancy looking green rays, a warpstorm such as has not been seen in the Empire since the Age of.. oops wrong universe.Err a  bunch of Sunsnakes decide to jump into the suns of most of the systems where the bases are, uhmm, based. These go nova (read:explode) and the fleets are wiped out. The energy released though is harnassed by the machines somehow and the time space continuim is torn asunder again.
It is an unstable tear though, new fleets must be assembled and new bases built before the good carebears can figure out what to do...


The Rules
1) The Basics

Players may fly only one ship at a time.

Any ship that appears in the yards may be purchased and played
- The only limitations are ONE DN and TWO Carriers on per side at any one time.

You may not place a base adjacent to any other base or planet (allied, enemy, or neutral).

Do not attack the  Mirak,or Hydran  hexes! These races are required to exist in the game to prevent server errors.

The middle map Nebula hexes are to chaotic to be traversed in anything heavier then a CL. CA's and up must use the "safe" path consisting
of the black hole hexes. Nebulas NOT in the center span can be safely entered by any ship.

2) LINE OF SUPPLY

-A Line of Supply (LoS) is needed to place a base or attack a planet. All LoS must be traced back to one
of your own planets.
A LoS must have a friendly (not allied) base  (of any kind) every 2 hexes

2a) You may only place a base within 2 hexes of a friendly (not allied) base
2b) You may not place a base within 2 hexes of an enemy base.

3) DISENGAGEMENT RULE:

- If you disengage from a battle with a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 60 minutes.  If you were flying a DN or Carrier ship that particular ship is also banned from the hex. Thus if you transfer the ship to another pilot after being bannned, not only would you still not be allowed into that hex until the ban was up, but neither would the pilot that is now flying the ship you had been in.

- If your ship is destroyed by a live enemy player, you cannot take missions in that hex for 30 minutes.

- There are no exemptions for the above two rules.  If you're stuck with a 1v3 or are forced to fly your FF against a BCH ... then the other side simply played their moves better.

- If you are in a hex that is surrounded by enemy hexes then you cannot disengage. Stay and fight to the death.

4)VICTORY POINTS

 All the normal stuff we all know and love (play nice etc etc)
-
- VP points are awarded as follows
-Placing a Starbase in a Nebula hex 20
-Placing a Battlestation in a Neb hex 10
-Placing a Basestation in a Neb Hex 5

-Being the top PVP player 25
Being PvP player #2         15
Being PvP player #3         10
Being PvP player#4          05
Being PvP player #5         A screenshot of J'inn running into the object of your choice (planet/asteroid/drone etc)


4B)PvP rules
Your PvP kills are counted when you are the only player in a mission on your side.
If you have a wing and he drops then nothing is counted.
You score one point per kill posted in a thread for PvP kills.
Kills scored while flying a DN do not count.
-You must survive the fight to claim a kill. Killing one player then leaving the map is permissable.
Killing one pleyer then dying means you may not claim a kill.
4C)Any DN or BCH that disengages in an even numbered fight gives up 1 VP to the other side.

4D)No ship with Limited numbers (DN's/Carriers) may wing together. If you find yourself drafted one of you
must leave.

46b) Always tow Darth J'inn to the border
46b1) 1VP awarded for screenshot of DArth J'inn thanking you for sparing his life (after tow to border) and you
killing him before he can actually warp off.

[Father Ted]

What kind of OoB on fighters? I hardly think we should expect to see F-14s on a CVS....

[KBFLordKrueg]

So...
in a 2v2, if both players on one side are destroyed...nothing counts? Bogus!

[Hexx]

I believe we (by which I mean DH) took the F14's out. It will all be F18s anyway

And the 2v2 would force the losing players from the hex .

[Julin Eurthyr]

Requesting Clarification of 4B

4B)PvP rules
Your PvP kills are counted when you are the only player in a mission on your side.
If you have a wing and he drops then nothing is counted.
You score one point per kill posted in a thread for PvP kills.
Kills scored while flying a DN do not count.

Line 1:
In a hypothetical fight, say Me vs. Darth J'inn and Darth Hexx.
No matter what J'inn and Hexx do, there can be no VCs scored for their team.
If I were to implement 46b1 and kill J'inn after giving him a kindly tow, and were to drive Hexx off, I'd get a kill point for offing J'inn.  Either way, both of you are banished in accordance with the disengagement rule.

Line 2:
If J'inn drops in the hypothetical example above, the resulting one on one would produce no points for either side.

Line 3:
To get the point, I need to post the kill in the appropriate bragging thread

Line 4:
I can't get a kill point for offing you in a F-DN (no refit), but can get the point for offing you with a CVD that carries 16 fighters and the drone loadout of, say, 2xNCDs.

[Hexx]

1) Yep No VC's scored for our side, course there's also no VC's scored for your side -only if you manage to kill
both players could you post it, and then only if you're one of the top 4 players are those kills worth anything at all.

2) I was considering a "drop" clause, but was concerned you could have a situation where two players drafted one player
then seeing as how the drafted player had a smalelr ship/was l;ess able etc one would "crash" out at mission start.
I don't think it would happen, but to avoid accusations I dropped the clause

3)You don't get a point- if you are one of the top 4 one on one players at the end of the server you can gain a few VP's for your side
If you kill me 35 times. and the 4th "best pvp" player has 36 one on one kills you get nothing. (well the screenie of J'inn but..)

4) You get no kills counted for flying a DN. CVD's are "Rd" out (as are CVP's,and anthing other than a DN/BC wth 4 or more drone racks)
I am far more concerned with letting someone who normally doesn't get to fly DN's use one than a side putting it's best PVP pilot
in a DNH to rack up points.



The absolute most # of VP's directly available from a fightwould be the staggering amount of 2.
1VP if you chased off a DN or BCH and one if you towed J'inn to the border and killed him AFTER he thanked you and BEFORE he warped off.
I really don't think it's going to happen that often.

[Green]

2) LINE OF SUPPLY

-A Line of Supply (LoS) is needed to place a base or attack a planet. All LoS must be traced back to one
of your own planets.
A LoS must have a friendly (not allied) base  (of any kind) every 2 hexes

2a) You may only place a base within 2 hexes of a friendly (not allied) base
2b) You may not place a base within 2 hexes of an enemy base.

As I read it, this looks like a base-dropping campaign if you want to attack an enemy planet.  To attack the other side's planets, we'll need to drop a new base every two hexes...correct?

What is a "friendly (not allied)" base if there is only one race per side?

[Hexx]

Yes -I wanted to make it almost impossible to hit the planets without actually ruling that they were untouchable.


The "not allied" line is in there as I *think* the Hydran and Kzin have a base in their respective space and I didn't want LOS traced from them.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Okay.  Let me try this again, as you helped me out some...

There are 55 VC points available at the end of the server, being distributed among the top 4 PvP pilots.

To get "kill points" in order to try and be counted among the top 4, a player (the Seeker) must meet all the following conditions:

The Seeker must fly solo, and cannot draft an ally.
The Seeker must kill any and all comers.  If he is outnumbered, he must kill both / all 3 people he drafts.  If even 1 opponent disengages, the seeker gains no points for the one or two people he killed.
The Seeker must, after killing the enemy(s), post his greatness in the appropriate thread.
The Seeker must avoid any / all internet drops, as a drop suddenly invalidates his ability to gain points from killing anyone.  Even if he was flying solo and the situation (for him) went from being outnumbered to suddenly at "even" odds...

Something tells me that it might be very, very hard to play under this system properly.  (I wish that I had seen this a lot earlier than today...).  Think about this for a moment:

If, on day 1, I have the top 4 players on the PvP kill list, all I need to do is issue an order that all pilots must fly in teams at all times.  There are to be no periods of time where a Federation officer is flying alone, or can be cought alone, on the front.  By doing so, I have just secured 55 VCs, which now means the Imperial team requires a 2 SB and a BATS lead to overcome our PvP score and win.

This can get sticky real fast...

[Dfly]

2) LINE OF SUPPLY

-A Line of Supply (LoS) is needed to place a base or attack a planet. All LoS must be traced back to one
of your own planets.
A LoS must have a friendly (not allied) base  (of any kind) every 2 hexes

As I see this, it seems to me no side can place any bases, except at a distance of 2 hexes from their own planet.  Once that is done, you MUST drop a base at an extact range of 2 from that base, then another from the just placed base, and so on and so on.  This would mean that before we can take any neutral space, or other fed space situated within our space, we would need to place a minimum of roughly 5 bases just to get to the point where we would be allowed to attack and take over a single hex of enemy fed space within our own space.  WHO is going to have enough cash to pay for all these bases if we cannot take over places that are NOT within our line of supply?   
Someone please explain to me how I am reading this wrong because if I am not reading it wrong, both sides are SNAFUed from the start.

[Julin Eurthyr]

May I recommend the following amendments:

In a multi-player "even strength" battle, ie, 2 on 2 or 3 on 3, the players are allowed to split off into individual 1 on 1s and fight out the battle(s) for kill points.  If a player interferes with another fight (film required to prove), then the interfering player's team cannot score points from that battle.

In an unbalanced fight (ie, 2 on 1 or 3 on 1), when it is possible to make an "even strength" fight out of it (even strength means identical hulls (2 NCAs, 2 CBs, a CAR vs a CC+) or 2 ships with a 10% BPV differential), the ships that are close enough to each other and capable of having a fair fight can engage, and the other players can disengage without penalty so that they can continue on with the server.  If there is no interference from the disengaging players, then the fighters can score kill points from the battle.

If, at any time, a player is outnumbered and he overcomes the odds and kills an opponent, then he is allowed to claim a kill point for doing so.

There are, of course, more details to think about, but I am not able to get them together right now...

[Dfly]

My appologies, got my message within my own quote     Hope this helps

As I see this, it seems to me no side can place any bases, except at a distance of 2 hexes from their own planet.  Once that is done, you MUST drop a base at an extact range of 2 from that base, then another from the just placed base, and so on and so on.  This would mean that before we can take any neutral space, or other fed space situated within our space, we would need to place a minimum of roughly 5 bases just to get to the point where we would be allowed to attack and take over a single hex of enemy fed space within our own space.  WHO is going to have enough cash to pay for all these bases if we cannot take over places that are NOT within our line of supply?  
Someone please explain to me how I am reading this wrong because if I am not reading it wrong, both sides are SNAFUed from the start.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Just as an FYI, haven't seen a StarBase or Base Station, but a BAT cost over 11K...
I foresee this as a very low VP scoring server...

[Hexx]

See? this is why Evil will win
Because Good is stupid..  
(or it could be that Evil can't post coherently.. anyway)

-The Seeker must fly solo, if he does draft an ally only disengagement rules apply.
-The seeker gets to count whomever he kills- if he kills one player in a 1 on 3 and then runs (assuming he's allowed to)
he can post he killed one player then ran. If he kills one player and the other two run he gets to count one kill (and bragiing rights about chasing off two other players)
-The Seeker must post he killed the enemy- mainly so I can keep a count going. He can embelish it if it's me that died or simply post the kill.
-See point the , uhmm, second. If the seeker heads bravely off into a 1 on 3, then two of the opposing players drop he can now attempt to kill the remaining player
If he does he gets to report it. If the other player kills him it doesn't count for player 2 as he had allies at the mission start.

Is there ways to screw this system over?
I assume so.
Is there ways to screw any VP system over? Yep
I put this in as some players like PvP and there's no reason they shouldn't see a (small, but significant) VP reward for their side.
I'd hope everyone can regad this as a fun server, yes there will be a winner and a loser, and these teams will likely never be used agin sooo
long term benefit of "winning" the server is ..nothing  .



EDIT :ARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Give me a sec to catch up  !!!!!!!

The intention of the base 2 hex rule is for placing bases or attacking planets. Flip hexes that arent planets to your hearts content
The only way to get VP is to place bases. Yep you'll need a chain.

-Base prices will be looked at (soon as I can find DH..) BCH's are a tad more expensive than I had planned as well.
I have to get hold of him to sort it out though.

No changes are being contemplated to the rules for PVPs (hmm..although I don't mind the idea of splitting up into honour duels.. Ill think about it)
And a definate NO to the second idea. I don't want three good players running missions, electing one of their number to go beat down on a new player they drafted while the other two continue on to do whatver they want. If you want to try for the points you CAN NOT run with a wing.


EDIT the second- Also going to look about boosting econ for the map, this is my first one and the yards seem a little  short on ships to me.
I may not have enough econ in it. Ill boost the econ (or ask DH to do it).
Figures that the first real night I have off he's not around..

[Julin Eurthyr]

Okay...

That sounds a bit better.  Considering you said not too long ago...

1) Yep No VC's scored for our side, course there's also no VC's scored for your side -only if you manage to kill
both players could you post it, and then only if you're one of the top 4 players are those kills worth anything at all.

That led me to believe that there was way too many ways to "lock down" the system.  Your most recent post clears up the system beautifully, and makes it a lot less ripe for abuse (to break a "lock", all we need to do is fly solo and kill a player or 2...)

So it's back to what I thought it was.  To get PvP Kill Points, a person has to fly alone, with no wingmen.  Any kills he earns and posts to be counted stick if he flies solo.  Any thoughts of a wingman (whether the wingman drops, runs away, etc.) make it impossible to earn points.  Top 4 solo pilots earn their team VCs, #5 gets a preety screenshot, and #6 gets nothing.

Last question:  If a player kills someone in a 2 on 1, then dies himself, does his kill still count?

[Hexx]

Assuming you're referring to the "1" player no.
He can leave the mission (and possibly forfeit a VP if he's in a BCH) but he has to survive.

I'll change that in the rules, thanks!

[Julin Eurthyr]

Another clarification (remember there Hexx, it's my job to find all these issues before we go live... )

We can flip a base hex with no LOS.  We need a LOS to place a base, and a LOS to attack a planet.

What about the planet that got snagged / created by the rift (ie the mirror planet on my side of the nebula)?  Do we need to buy a base (chain) to attack it, or is it fair game from day 1?  Also, does our planet on their side of the rift count as an origin point for LOS rules?

[Hexx]

LOL No worries , I understand those carebear Q&A's can be grueling.
You can flip a base hex (I gues?) with no los but they're destructable so (I think?) it will go boom in mission
If this causes huge issues then it's just ammended you need los to flip a base.

Planets count as supply points
You need a line of supply to attack one, or to attack (and place) base from one.
Planets are meant to be extremely hard to attack- and you gain no VP for doing so.
None.Zero.Nilch.Nada.
So you can run missions, build up points to buy bases, place the bases -and remember any base placed outside a neb counts for no VP
and then while you're attacking the planet have someone come in and thrash one base in your LoS.
A base that needs to be replaced before you can run another planet assault mission.

If you want to do it though..
Go crazy.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Hexx...

Approx. 35,13, in a nebula (rift) deep inside my territory, is an Imperial base / planet combination.  I understand that we have a base/planet like that on the other side of the map.

According to the rules, we could, theoretically, operate off that site in the nebula of Imperial space, using it to take out annoying bases that are being used for LOS purposes, or (if we can defend it), use it as a launching pad to set up LOS supporting our attack on the rift.

Also, any / all nebulas we place a base in count for points, correct?

And, before you complain too much, getting this done now means you won't need to do it later...

[Hexx]

Heh actually missed the planet in the Neb,
the map's been changed a tad (took out a few neb hexes) and that planets no longer based in a nebula (on either side)
However assuming you can hold it , it can be used as a normal supply point.

And yes any base placed in a nebula will count (assuming it survives) as of the server end.


I should point out I guess that the VPs are only counted at server end, so stuff like placing a base in a neb, then losing it and putting
another one there doesn't score you VP for 2 bases, only whatever is there when the server is over.