Topic: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED  (Read 19326 times)

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Offline Iceman

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2005, 06:03:02 pm »
Just an FYI, "The Clone Wars" series is not a secondary source, its straight from Lucas. It's as canon as the movies.

Also, the Yuzzhang Vong are quite different from the Borg in their motives. The Borg assimilated to learn more, be more powerful, that kinda thing. The Vong kill just to kill, with no real gain besides land. It's  like Italy invading Ethiopia, they did it just cause they could.
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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2005, 06:08:38 pm »
Any quote from Lucas indicating that the Clone Wars cartoons aren't a part of EU/the "parallel universe", that he describes it in his canon?  I'm just curious as I haven't heard much of that issue in Canon.

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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2005, 06:20:46 pm »
Also, the Yuzzhang Vong are quite different from the Borg in their motives.

I was just talking about the "unstopable super-race that appears just to give our heros someone new to fight" aspect of them. ;)
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Offline Iceman

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2005, 12:13:33 pm »
About the Vong, yeah sorta. It was time for something new though. Granted, they're a walking plot device, but the writers have pulled it off, giving them their own history with twists and turns. I'm about -200 pages from finishing "The Unifying Force" (the last book in the New Jedi Order) so I'll let you know how it turns out.

CJ,
I not sure I understand what you're trying to say, could ya rephrase that?
From what I gather, the Clone Wars animated series is the official story of what Anakin and Obi-Wan and everyone involved went through during the Clone Wars. It's as canon as the movies.
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Offline KBF-Angel Slayer

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2005, 05:36:57 pm »
Well, finally got the time off to go see it.  I'll have an opinion by the time I get home.  If it sucks, I'll bill you. ;D


NPR is a lot like NASCAR.  Two hundred miles an hour in a circle, and you end up right back where you started with nothing but lost time for the effort.


Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2005, 07:49:32 pm »
It didn’t seem to matter to Obi-Wan that he didn’t have the high ground in the first movie.  When Obi-Wan was hanging on for his life in that seemingly bottomless pit with Darth Maul gloating over Obi-Wan after Qui Gon was killed.

Other than that glaring misstep I thought the movie was ok.

Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2005, 07:55:06 pm »
Obi wan had no choice, so he took the risk.  Also, Obi wan didn't know it at the time, but had greater skill than Darth Maul.
As for Ep. III, I'd say it was say to say that Obi Wan and Anikan were closely matched (more so than the other duel), and Obi Wan had one advantage: Anikan was too arrogant.  If anikan would have been more prudent, he probably could have won, but he didn't, and made a stupid move.
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #87 on: May 28, 2005, 07:56:22 pm »
It didn’t seem to matter to Obi-Wan that he didn’t have the high ground in the first movie.

Obi-Wan was acting out of desperation while attacking an over-confident opponent that had no idea what was coming.

Vader was trying to attack a calm, well-disciplined opponent that was sure of his position and the options open to his attacker.


BIG difference.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #88 on: May 28, 2005, 08:48:38 pm »
You could even argue that Obi-Wan knew exactly what his former Padawan was about to try because he'd once been in a similar position.

Maul just made the mistake of being too focused on killing Obi-Wan and of underestimating him, which, as we saw, was fatal.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2005, 09:13:28 pm »
:rofl:


He could just as easily have landed on the other side of the pit away from Darth Maul and then continued the fight.  A good fighter doesn't take on risk unnecessarily, the force can't anticipate everything in a fight.  Someone earlier in this thread said something to the same effect in regards to Palpatine.

IMHO this was a case of limited time in the movie making process, and I guess that someone hoped that we all had a short memory.

Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2005, 09:52:21 pm »
Maybe he could've, but people in tense situations don't always think of the best solution.  It just happened to work out for Obi-Wan in Episode I, but didn't for Anakin in III.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline KBF-Angel Slayer

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2005, 06:33:59 am »
Enjoyed the movie, and have little to say about Politics, other than, you could apply the so called messages to any political party over the last thousand years. 
   Best actors by character, in order?

   Obi-Wan.  I'd have to give him credit for the best acting of the entire movie.  Close, but he won.
   Yoda.  The little green guy gave his best performance yet.  You actually forgot he'd leave the set and go home to his wife and kids, didn't you?  Very good job.
   R2-D2.  As usual, R2 performs great, and gives great humor.  Rumor has it, they considered him for the role of Moe in the Three Stooges movie, but couldn't reach an agreement on the hydraulic fluid in the break room.
   Palpatine.  He did a very good job playing the manipulator.  I really liked the way he'd twist words to get his way.
   Padme.  This is the only woman I've ever seen that makes one think of a good laxative rather than heartbreak when she is supposedly upset.  Very bad.
   Anakin.  This was just horrible.  He looked pissed the entire movie. 
   
   I did enjoy the movie, and liked the basic story.  Lucas redeemed himself with this one, to a good degree.  I liked it.

   


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Offline Elvis

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #92 on: May 29, 2005, 03:13:31 pm »
Characters that were introduced in the trilogy that I wished we'd have seen more of:

Darth Maul -- What planet did he come from? Maul was cool too bad he was short lived, more Maul less Binks. That simply would have made the first movie better--focus on the stalking of Queen Amidala on Tatooine by Maul. I could have skipped the whole pod racer thing also --more Maul being evil with his twin bladed saber, hell have him kill Jar Jar.

Count Dooku -- There is a missed opportunity, make him the trainer/master of Maul, with Sidious as his master. I know that wouldn't be "canon" but it would fit better, imo. Why ascribe the clone army to some unknown Jedi, just admiit it was Dooku.

General Grievious -- What the hell did I miss, who was the droid general in the first movie? He should have been introduced in the first movie, him along with more Maul and less Binks and the first movie woud be Oscar bound. j/k/k I mean come on.

Lucas wanted this to be "epic" but he made it too epic, covering too much time and space. All we really cared about was seeing Anakin, the young Jedi apprentice and his turn to the dark side. We didn't need an immaculate conception, pod racing  and the whole discussion of mitochlorians(sp?).  Everybody wanted to be a jedi when I was growing up, I guarantee that had we know about mitochlorians in the 4th episode we wouldn't have given a damn. Now we have Anakin turning to the dark side and if his resume just includes:killing younglings, getting mutilated by Obi Wan on the volcano planet, being unsuccessful in tracking down the plans to the first Death Star when stolen by the rebellion, not being able to stop the rebellion in destroying the first death star,  letting the rebellion escape Hoth, the snow planet(you can only blame so many things on underlings), losing the Falcon in asteroid field and then falling for the oldest one in the book, escaping with the garbage, not delivering Skywalker the first time, and then on the second confrontation  with Skywalker giving in to the light side and helping to destroy the Emperor. What kind of evil resume is that? What reason do I have to fear Vader, he's not been succeessful at anything hes attempted, on either side. Lucas has made the main character of two trilogies a complete and utter loser and that is laughable.  Now my recollection of Vader is him breaking bonds like Frankenstein and screaming "NOOOOOO!!!" Give me a break.

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #93 on: June 01, 2005, 01:09:13 pm »
Count Dooku -- There is a missed opportunity, make him the trainer/master of Maul, with Sidious as his master. I know that wouldn't be "canon" but it would fit better, imo. Why ascribe the clone army to some unknown Jedi, just admiit it was Dooku.
The  Labyrinth of Evil novel provides some back story on the origin of the Clone Army.  Apparently, Sifo-Di-yass became disenchanted with the Jedi when Qui Quon Jinn died and started looking for ulterior ways to save the Republic from itself.  Dooku also started looking and became an easy target for Darth Sidious to corrupt.  Before his untimely demise, Qui Quonn was a leader of a Jedi faction that was more far-sighted than the current Jedi Council including discovering how to merge with the force after death. Yoda did not realize that Qui Quonn was correct is asserting that the Jedi were stagnating in fossilized practices, that would eventually allow the Sith to overtake them, until the Emporer proved in his duel with Yoda that the Sith had evolved to the point that they were more powerful than the Jedi masters, like...Yoda. After losing his duel with the Emporer, Yoda became Qui Quonn Jinn ghost's apprentice in order to find new unconventional ways to eventually defeat the Sith.

Anyway, when Dooku found out about Sifo-Di-Yass probing the Kaminoans about making a Clone Army, he told Palpatine and the Sith Lord gave as his first task to kill Sifo, but only after the Clone Army idea was well underway.  Then Dooku went and found the clone template by hiring the bounty hunter Jango Fett.  Palpatine also had ex-Chancellor Valorum bumped off in a mysterious shuttle accident in Labyrinth of Evil.   The Old Republic Intelligence services also manage to link the warehouse used at the end of Attack of the Clones to someone in the high levels of the Republic gov't. But, when they arrived at Palpatine's door a couple of Genosian guards waxed the investigators with Palpatine smugly walking over their dead bodies on his way to the "kidnapping" rendezvous with Grevious.

Quote
Lucas wanted this to be "epic" but he made it too epic, covering too much time and space. All we really cared about was seeing Anakin, the young Jedi apprentice and his turn to the dark side. We didn't need an immaculate conception, pod racing  and the whole discussion of mitochlorians(sp?).  Everybody wanted to be a jedi when I was growing up, I guarantee that had we know about mitochlorians in the 4th episode we wouldn't have given a damn. Now we have Anakin turning to the dark side and if his resume just includes:killing younglings, getting mutilated by Obi Wan on the volcano planet, being unsuccessful in tracking down the plans to the first Death Star when stolen by the rebellion, not being able to stop the rebellion in destroying the first death star,  letting the rebellion escape Hoth, the snow planet(you can only blame so many things on underlings), losing the Falcon in asteroid field and then falling for the oldest one in the book, escaping with the garbage, not delivering Skywalker the first time, and then on the second confrontation  with Skywalker giving in to the light side and helping to destroy the Emperor. What kind of evil resume is that? What reason do I have to fear Vader, he's not been succeessful at anything hes attempted, on either side. Lucas has made the main character of two trilogies a complete and utter loser and that is laughable.  Now my recollection of Vader is him breaking bonds like Frankenstein and screaming "NOOOOOO!!!" Give me a break.

The Sith were basically having everything go their way for close to 32 years from Episode I until right up to the moment Luke destroys the Death Star. Only when the ghost of Obi-wan Kenobi, using skills taught by his own master Qui Quonn, instructed Luke on how to destroy the Death Star and with some vital unlooked-for help from his friend Han Solo, did the Sith start losing. Basically, Lucas was big on how friendship and love can always overcome evil, because evil, in the end, is all about being selfish.  Not until people started giving up their old ways (ie. the Jedi Council opposing Qui Quonn Jinn's teachings), and the selfish corruption of the Old Republic gave way to people freely giving their lives for others, did the Sith start losing. Finally, when Anakin finally grew up and gave up his life to save his own son did Darth Sidious die.  But before the first Dearth Star blew up,  the Sith had a pretty good run:  engineered the Clone Wars as a vehicle to kill Jedi and dilute their numbers in preparation for the Jedi Purge, Jedi Temple destroyed, Galactic Empire handed to them for 3 plus decades, Alderaan destroyed, etc.  Actually, about the only thing missing from Lucas' careful re-construction of past RL intriques in the ancient Roman Empire is Jar Jar Binks mimicing Emporer Claudius, who as playing the fool survived all the back-stabbings of the Augustus dynasty, to eventually become Emporer of the Roman Empire, ruler of 1/4 of the ancient world's population, and conquerer of Britain in the 50s AD. :O

BTW, does anyone find it interesting that the coming out of "Deep Throat", who was the vital source in the FBI to fuel the Watergate Scandal investigation, the informant that displayed the corruption of the Nixon Administration and its misuse of the CIA, FBI and US Dept. of Justice to the world, occurs when ROTS comes out? Lucas always said Star Wars was a reflection of the times during the Vietnam/Watergate scandal era in addition to his probing on why the Roman Republic and the French Republic of 1790s eventually became empires.  Corruption kills democracy indeed...
« Last Edit: June 01, 2005, 01:27:14 pm by el-Karnak »

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #94 on: June 01, 2005, 01:24:26 pm »
I finally saw It yesterday, and I have to say, I got a chuckle out of Franken Vader at the End.


"NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!"

Stephen
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Offline Iceman

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #95 on: June 01, 2005, 04:29:54 pm »
Count Dooku -- There is a missed opportunity, make him the trainer/master of Maul, with Sidious as his master. I know that wouldn't be "canon" but it would fit better, imo. Why ascribe the clone army to some unknown Jedi, just admiit it was Dooku.
The  Labyrinth of Evil novel provides some back story on the origin of the Clone Army.  Apparently, Sifo-Di-yass became disenchanted with the Jedi when Qui Quon Jinn died and started looking for ulterior ways to save the Republic from itself.  Dooku also started looking and became an easy target for Darth Sidious to corrupt.  Before his untimely demise, Qui Quonn was a leader of a Jedi faction that was more far-sighted than the current Jedi Council including discovering how to merge with the force after death. Yoda did not realize that Qui Quonn was correct is asserting that the Jedi were stagnating in fossilized practices, that would eventually allow the Sith to overtake them, until the Emporer proved in his duel with Yoda that the Sith had evolved to the point that they were more powerful than the Jedi masters, like...Yoda. After losing his duel with the Emporer, Yoda became Qui Quonn Jinn ghost's apprentice in order to find new unconventional ways to eventually defeat the Sith.

Anyway, when Dooku found out about Sifo-Di-Yass probing the Kaminoans about making a Clone Army, he told Palpatine and the Sith Lord gave as his first task to kill Sifo, but only after the Clone Army idea was well underway.  Then Dooku went and found the clone template by hiring the bounty hunter Jango Fett.  Palpatine also had ex-Chancellor Valorum bumped off in a mysterious shuttle accident in Labyrinth of Evil.   The Old Republic Intelligence services also manage to link the warehouse used at the end of Attack of the Clones to someone in the high levels of the Republic gov't. But, when they arrived at Palpatine's door a couple of Genosian guards waxed the investigators with Palpatine smugly walking over their dead bodies on his way to the "kidnapping" rendezvous with Grevious.

Quote
Lucas wanted this to be "epic" but he made it too epic, covering too much time and space. All we really cared about was seeing Anakin, the young Jedi apprentice and his turn to the dark side. We didn't need an immaculate conception, pod racing  and the whole discussion of mitochlorians(sp?).  Everybody wanted to be a jedi when I was growing up, I guarantee that had we know about mitochlorians in the 4th episode we wouldn't have given a damn. Now we have Anakin turning to the dark side and if his resume just includes:killing younglings, getting mutilated by Obi Wan on the volcano planet, being unsuccessful in tracking down the plans to the first Death Star when stolen by the rebellion, not being able to stop the rebellion in destroying the first death star,  letting the rebellion escape Hoth, the snow planet(you can only blame so many things on underlings), losing the Falcon in asteroid field and then falling for the oldest one in the book, escaping with the garbage, not delivering Skywalker the first time, and then on the second confrontation  with Skywalker giving in to the light side and helping to destroy the Emperor. What kind of evil resume is that? What reason do I have to fear Vader, he's not been succeessful at anything hes attempted, on either side. Lucas has made the main character of two trilogies a complete and utter loser and that is laughable.  Now my recollection of Vader is him breaking bonds like Frankenstein and screaming "NOOOOOO!!!" Give me a break.

The Sith were basically having everything go their way for close to 32 years from Episode I until right up to the moment Luke destroys the Death Star. Only when the ghost of Obi-wan Kenobi, using skills taught by his own master Qui Quonn, instructed Luke on how to destroy the Death Star and with some vital unlooked-for help from his friend Han Solo, did the Sith start losing. Basically, Lucas was big on how friendship and love can always overcome evil, because evil, in the end, is all about being selfish.  Not until people started giving up their old ways (ie. the Jedi Council opposing Qui Quonn Jinn's teachings), and the selfish corruption of the Old Republic gave way to people freely giving their lives for others, did the Sith start losing. Finally, when Anakin finally grew up and gave up his life to save his own son did Darth Sidious die.  But before the first Dearth Star blew up,  the Sith had a pretty good run:  engineered the Clone Wars as a vehicle to kill Jedi and dilute their numbers in preparation for the Jedi Purge, Jedi Temple destroyed, Galactic Empire handed to them for 3 plus decades, Alderaan destroyed, etc.  Actually, about the only thing missing from Lucas' careful re-construction of past RL intriques in the ancient Roman Empire is Jar Jar Binks mimicing Emporer Claudius, who as playing the fool survived all the back-stabbings of the Augustus dynasty, to eventually become Emporer of the Roman Empire, ruler of 1/4 of the ancient world's population, and conquerer of Britain in the 50s AD. :O

BTW, does anyone find it interesting that the coming out of "Deep Throat", who was the vital source in the FBI to fuel the Watergate Scandal investigation, the informant that displayed the corruption of the Nixon Administration and its misuse of the CIA, FBI and US Dept. of Justice to the world, occurs when ROTS comes out? Lucas always said Star Wars was a reflection of the times during the Vietnam/Watergate scandal era in addition to his probing on why the Roman Republic and the French Republic of 1790s eventually became empires.  Corruption kills democracy indeed...


I just learned SO much.

Thank you.
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Offline Elvis

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #96 on: June 01, 2005, 06:57:15 pm »
Ok so the Sith had a 'good' run of 32 years, most people who walked into RotS will never pick up a Star Wars novel. Darth Vader was an "ALL PRO" as a villain, his villainy was legendary. Now what is he? George Lucas has undone his evil creation. We never see Anakin as really good, we see him as rebellious and arrogant. And then we see him turn to the Dark Side; then he just becomes a silly caricature. I'm just not satisfied with the story Lucas told, but it is told and there is no changing it so I guess I'll have to live with that.

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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #97 on: June 01, 2005, 07:03:45 pm »
Worked just fine for me, Elvis... the only problem is YOU DIDN'T SAY WHICH NATALIE PORTMAN MOVIE THAT IS!!!

A stripping Padme with pink hair... Now THAT'S entertainment! ;D
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #98 on: June 01, 2005, 07:06:19 pm »
Worked just fine for me, Elvis... the only problem is YOU DIDN'T SAY WHICH NATALIE PORTMAN MOVIE THAT IS!!!

A stripping Padme with pink hair... Now THAT'S entertainment! ;D


OK show of hands, ( man I'm going to hell), who first noticed Natalie in the Professional?

I knew when I saw her that she would grow up into a beautifull young women.

Stephen
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED
« Reply #99 on: June 01, 2005, 07:33:43 pm »
OK show of hands, ( man I'm going to hell), who first noticed Natalie in the Professional?

I did... ;D

J, who is NOT going to Hell, because he was like, 16 when he saw the Professional- so he wasn't old enough to be her father... ;)
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."