Topic: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[J. Carney]

(Book)

Imagine Obi waking up, and the first thing to see is Anakin's behind.

Truely a ROFL moment... especially if you listen to the audiobook reading of it.

Or at least he THINKS that it's Anikin's butt... having never seen it either that closely or from quite that angle before.

I got a kick out of:

Obi-Wan: "Anikin, where's your lightsaber?'"

Anikin: "Well, master..."

Obi-Wan: "Anikin, you haven't lost it, have you? That lightsaber is your LIFE!"

Anikin: "It's not lost Master, I know exactly where it is." *points at super Jedi-killer battle droid* "He's got it."

[Iceman]

Acrually, I just view Sidious and Vader as a different kind of terrifying. Notice that the Jedi are scared of them, even though they outnumber the Sith several thousand to two.

Both pair are dangerous in their own way.

I'd personally like to see the next movie set in the Golden Age of the Sith... imagine, the Great Hyperspace Wars!!!

I'd pay $20 for a single ticket if they made a movie out of KOTOR. Seriously.

Of others I'd pay good money to see, "I, Jedi" and "Shadows of the Empire"

[J. Carney]

I'd pay $20 for a single ticket if they made a movie out of KOTOR. Seriously.

Of others I'd pay good money to see, "I, Jedi" and "Shadows of the Empire"

Ice, for the theater to get me to pay $20 for a ticket to ANY movie, that cute redhead at the concession stand will have to do something obscenely biological to me when the lights are turned down.

I would consider joining the 'freaks and geeks' squad for a midnight showing of a KOTOR movie, though... as long as I didn't have to work/go to school the next morning. The nutjobs that are in the theater with me had just better remember this when they start waving those Hasbro_(R) lightsbers in my face:
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good Glock at your side."


A 'Golden Age of the Sith' movie- perhaps covering some of the goings-on in the SIth Empire- would also get me in the theater pretty quick. The sight of a batallion of Jedi assaulting the Sith capital... THAT would be a 'WOW' moment!

[jualdeaux]

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good Glock at your side."

Check out my new avatar.

[J. Carney]

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good Glock at your side."

Check out my new avatar.

I caught that... I really like it. Did you do it yourself or find it?

[Jack Morris]

I'd like to see movies made of afterwards, like with Admiral Thrawn, and that other female Admiral who commanded a fleet of four star destroyers. Those were some good books to read while off duty in the field. 

[Iceman]

Isard I believe is the female in question. She had the Lusankya for a while too, before Rogue Squadron an Co. stole it.

Then it got rammed into a Yuzzhan Vong worldship. Kinda cool.

[Firehawk]

I think he means Daala who commanded a group a Star Destroyers guarding the MAW installation and the prototype death star and sun crusher in the Jedi Academy trilogy

[Commander La'ra]

Ah, yeah, I'd already heard the 'Sidious was only setting up Anakin' reasoing.  I don't buy it for the following reasons:

A: I regard Sidious as a smart, effective villian.  Despite the assertion from some posters that he's a 'chump' bad guy, you'll notice that Sidious is the one who actually managed to take over the galaxy.  Sure, he used sneaky, underhanded means to do so, but he succeeded where the other Sith had continually failed.

To accomplish such a goal, he had to be a survivor.  Survivors do not willingly place themselves into a position where random chance can end their existence.  Had a good stiff wind from outside hit Mace as he stood over Sidious half-melted form, the Sith Lords reign would never have come to be.  Same thing if Anakin had gotten stuck in traffic.  Sure the force gives him foresight, but combat situations are fluid; even the Force would not account for all variables that might end up killing the Dark Lord if he deliberately placed himself in a helpless situation.

That's also ruling out Anakin.  Sure, he made the decision to help Sidious, but given the fact that Sidious was the only Sith in the galaxy, I don't think someone as cagey as the future Emperor would be assured enough of Skywalker's decision that he was willing to put himself in front of a bullet to further tempt him when...

B: There was no real advantage in doing so.  Had Sidious killed Mace, he still could've rocked Anakin's world with the phrase 'They just tried to kill me!'  As instantly effective as what happened?  Maybe not, but still a significant victory in the war for Anakin's soul.

Those are the 'motivational' reasons.  The next two are storytelling.

C: The Emperor is more effective as a villian if Mace actually had the advantage.  This is partially related to reason A, but also because it makes the final seduction of Anakin a snap judgement, the immediate and unhesitant exploitation of a situation that dropped into his lap.  If I was the Emperor, I would have been expecting the final victory over Skywalker's good side to take a little longer, and I assume the guy in the movie was moving just as cautiously, which means that, though he did not expect what happened, he immediately took as much benefit from it as he could.

He does the same thing in the Senate chamber, milking his disfigurment for political capital.  Playing possum for Mace kind would ruin the idea that he's so competent, as least as far as I'm concerned.

D: The Emperor learns from his mistakes.  Mace was probably not as powerful as Sidious when it comes to the Force, but he held a key equalizer:  His lightsaber.  Sidious couldn't have been as practiced at swordplay as Windu.  Even with the idea that he was a master lightsaber duelist (and he's clearly good) he's spent the last several years in a situation where it'll be difficult to find time to keep his skills sharp.  Thus, when he is confronted with the bald black man, he loses the sword fight and resorts to his knowledge of the force.  Unfortunately, he does so in a manner than Mace can counter with his lightsaber.

Now here comes the learning part.  Yoda is acknowledged as the Jedi's greatest swordsman.  When Big Evil and Little Green throw down, my general impression is that the Emperor was trying to avoid direct lightsaber action.  Oh sure, they parried and riposted some, but mostly, Sidious tried to turn it into a force duel...a type of conflict he was better equipped to win, as he and Yoda were apparently a nearly-even match in that area.

Hence, he did not repeat the mistake he made with Mace, and fought Yoda to a draw.

I realize of course, that the 'reality' of the situation is entirely up to the viewer, but to me, the Emperor is a much much meaner man looking at it my way.

[J. Carney]

I realize of course, that the 'reality' of the situation is entirely up to the viewer, but to me, the Emperor is a much much meaner man looking at it my way.

'Mean' isn't the word thatI would use to discribe him- 'manipulative' would be better. Palpatine/Sidious is most definately EVIL- and I mean a bottomless pit of undying darkness- but he never really revels in his 'meanness.' If anything, he tries to avoid outright meanness in favor of sneakiness and guile while recognizing that being outright mean will just turn people away from his plans.

[Commander La'ra]

I was using mean in the sense of 'is able to carry out his evil plans successfully' sense...but you're right that I coulda found a better descriptive.

[J. Carney]

I was using mean in the sense of 'is able to carry out his evil plans successfully' sense...but you're right that I coulda found a better descriptive.

Whoops... sorry. *slinks off*

[Commander La'ra]

No, really, you were right...I was just expounding on my word choice.

[Jack Morris]

Not enough attention given to how Anakin gave in so easily to the dark side. I also did not believe the part where Anakin killed Count Dooku (Who surely would have spilled the beans on Palpatine) so easily when he was still on the light side of the force.

The droid General ROCKED, and should have easily been able to kill Obi-Wan, IMO. 4 lightsabers and Jedi training vs 1 lightsaber and a Jedi? Come on George, do better than that.

The killing off of the Jedi, especially the masters, again, come on, they could sense something beforehand I'm sure, I mean you do not get voted to sit on the council for nothing ya know? I would have believed Anakin hunting them down and murdering them more than just a stupid trooper or a couple of them.

Yoda? What can ya say? He always steals the show.

I too was disappointed with Mace's death, again it was the "it's not the Jedi way" thingy, so why did Anakin kill one Sith after telling Palpatine it's not right, yet turn around and tell Mace what he was doing was not right?

All in all, great scenes, but as J.C. and others point out, there is too much info missing. I do not know why, I just do not feel a closeness to the characters as in the very first 3 SW films from years and years ago, except for Obi-Wan and Yoda.

[J. Carney]

Not enough attention given to how Anakin gave in so easily to the dark side. I also did not believe the part where Anakin killed Count Dooku (Who surely would have spilled the beans on Palpatine) so easily when he was still on the light side of the force.

The droid General ROCKED, and should have easily been able to kill Obi-Wan, IMO. 4 lightsabers and Jedi training vs 1 lightsaber and a Jedi? Come on George, do better than that.

The killing off of the Jedi, especially the masters, again, come on, they could sense something beforehand I'm sure, I mean you do not get voted to sit on the council for nothing ya know? I would have believed Anakin hunting them down and murdering them more than just a stupid trooper or a couple of them.

Yoda? What can ya say? He always steals the show.

I too was disappointed with Mace's death, again it was the "it's not the Jedi way" thingy, so why did Anakin kill one Sith after telling Palpatine it's not right, yet turn around and tell Mace what he was doing was not right?

All in all, great scenes, but as J.C. and others point out, there is too much info missing. I do not know why, I just do not feel a closeness to the characters as in the very first 3 SW films from years and years ago, except for Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Read the book, Jack. It'll fill in the blanks. In fact, if it's not too much to get it there (whereever there is), I'll send you my copy. The book shows so much behind the scenes stuff that a movie leaves out in it's limited time frame.

[J. Carney]

OK, as for the "How old is Palpatine/Sidious" and "Was it the fight that scared his face, or the Dark Side" questions, I found this interview- http://img287.echo.cx/my.php?image=palps8zt.jpg- over on the Star Wars D20 forums.

It basically says that Sidious is playing a part when he's Palpatine, he's not even acting like the person that he was before he became a Sith. It insinuates that Sidious is extremey old and that his face is twisted by his evil.

Just a little FYI for you guys.

[jualdeaux]

I did notice one thing that seemed to not be canon. In Return of the Jedi, when Luke was leaving the group on the ewok planet, he had that conversation with Leia. In it, he asked her if she remembers her mother. She replies yes, but not much. She was very beautiul but always really sad. How could she remember her mother if her mother died in childbirth?

The one place that I noticed that canon was upheld rather nicely, was at the end of Sith when they had C3P0's memory erased. That explains why R2 knew things that 3P0 didn't.

Oh, they took almost 20 years to build the first Death Star, but only 4 to get the second one fully operational, albeit missing half the superstructure.

I know, picky, picky. But as a Star Trek fan aren't we supposed to notice these little things? 

[J. Carney]

I did notice one thing that seemed to not be canon. In Return of the Jedi, when Luke was leaving the group on the ewok planet, he had that conversation with Leia. In it, he asked her if she remembers her mother. She replies yes, but not much. She was very beautiul but always really sad. How could she remember her mother if her mother died in childbirth?

The one place that I noticed that canon was upheld rather nicely, was at the end of Sith when they had C3P0's memory erased. That explains why R2 knew things that 3P0 didn't.

Oh, they took almost 20 years to build the first Death Star, but only 4 to get the second one fully operational, albeit missing half the superstructure.

I know, picky, picky. But as a Star Trek fan aren't we supposed to notice these little things? 

Well to quote Yoda "Strong with the Force, this one is." Perhaps she has this little 'flashbulb memory' that was left as some kind of imprint because of the strong emotions Padme was sending out at that moment. Vader and Luke seem to be able to reed each other's moods like that; why can't it work for girls, too?

The 3P0 memory wipe does explain a lot; how R2 knew which way to go to get towards civilization on Tatooine (he just got busted before he got there), or how R2 knows Obi-Wan. I do agree with them wiping his memory, though... Vader would have found out about the kids in a microsecond if they didn't shut his yap.

And who's to say that they weren't working on BOTH Death Stars simultaniously, one was started, worked on, flaws were found, and then another was started built with improvements and corrections included while the first was being completed.

[Iceman]

I did notice one thing that seemed to not be canon. In Return of the Jedi, when Luke was leaving the group on the ewok planet, he had that conversation with Leia. In it, he asked her if she remembers her mother. She replies yes, but not much. She was very beautiul but always really sad. How could she remember her mother if her mother died in childbirth?

I always took it as she was talking about her adopted mother. That's my take on it. That's why Luke never had any recollection, either.

[jualdeaux]

Since you are trying to come up with possible explainations for things, if R2 and 3PO were known very well by Obi-Wan, why did Obi-an not recognize them in A new Hope when Luke was recused by Ben from the Sand People? Huh, huh? Explain that one all knowing J. Carney! LOL

 

I did notice one thing that seemed to not be canon. In Return of the Jedi, when Luke was leaving the group on the ewok planet, he had that conversation with Leia. In it, he asked her if she remembers her mother. She replies yes, but not much. She was very beautiul but always really sad. How could she remember her mother if her mother died in childbirth?

I always took it as she was talking about her adopted mother. That's my take on it. That's why Luke never had any recollection, either.

But why would Luke be asking about Leia's step mother?