Topic: Star Wars Episode III - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[Darth Sidious]

This is a SPOILERS thread.  If you dont want to read spoilers for SW:EP3 Movie OR Book, dont read the rest of this thread.

[Darth Sidious]

Ok, couple things to start with.

No offense to Natalie - but the acting was horribly wooden.  It's probably just Lucas, but considering the rest of the movie - nobody else gets such crappy lines.
.....


Mace V Sidious.  Ever think that Sids was faking losing to draw Anakin in?  Especially considering how quickly he unleashed hell on Mace after Mace was de-handed by Anakin?
The facemelt scene was cool... even though i think it was done the way it was so that the general audience would get conclusive proof that Palpatine WAS Sidious, hideous face and all.


Obi/Anakin v Dooku.  RUSHED.  VERY RUSHED.  The book gives Dooku a bit of internal monologue describing what was happenind - including being totally faked out by Obi/Anakin's lightsabre styles.  Totally missing from the movie.

Grevious:  Coolness, plain and simple.  Even if he does go out like a punk.

THE DUEL:  Awesome beyond belief.... EXCEPT for Anakin's last jump.  OBI's lines right after Anakin gets de-limbed were by far the best in the entire movie... maybe even the entire 6 movies (save the classic one liners).

Yoda v Sidous:  Close match.  Yoda held his own for the most part - choosing to lose/fall away rather than continue the fight.  The Novel explains this. 

Opening Spacebattle:  I actually prefered the battle over Endor better.  Very pretty, but not much else.

Water Ballet:  Didya catch Lucas as Baron Papanoida?

The Reveal:  Better in the book, even though the circling camera angles was awesome.  Palpatine reveals that he's Sids in the book (by saying... Before I killed him) rather than let Anakin tumble it out for himself.

[AcePylut]

Mace V Sidious. Ever think that Sids was faking losing to draw Anakin in? Especially considering how quickly he unleashed hell on Mace after Mace was de-handed by Anakin?

That’s exactly what I thought.  “Fake” losing, offer up himself to Anni as the only salvation for Padme, forcing Anni to choose.

Grevious: Coolness, plain and simple. Even if he does go out like a punk.

I thought his chronic bronchitis was unnecessary, and his voice was such that it was kinda difficult to hear what he was saying.

Final Battle:  Awesome beyond belief.... EXCEPT for Anakin's last jump. OBI's lines right after Anakin gets de-limbed were by far the best in the entire movie...

I dug Anni’s jump.  Like how Obi squeezed in “I win, I control the high ground, don’t do it” right before it happened.  But here’s what I’m going to have to watch for the next time I see this movie (later tonite).  Anni’s right hand is the one that got cut-off in Attack of the Clones, but wasn’t cut off in Sith.  When anni jumped and got de-limbed, was he holding the light sabre in the right hand or left hand?  If right hand, does the movie show Anni “losing” the lightsabre or was it clutched in the left hand when Obi picked it up.  I can’t remember.

And yes, the “chosen” one speech imho was the best lines and the best acting in the entire series.

I wish the “turning” scene was a little longer.  I kinda felt that scene should have been drawn out a little more.  Lets face it…. Anni turning to the dark side is one of the three or four focal points of the entire series.  Hayden has the acting talent to carry a scene such as that and visibly show the internal conflict before falling to the dark side, I felt it should have been a couple minutes longer of on-screen “decision making” before going bad. 

When Vader cries out at Padme’s death… I didn’t feel there was a lot of emotion in there, when there should have been.  But I dug how the camera panned over to an evilly grinning Emperor.  That really cemented the Emperor being the “all-evil” force of the universe. 

But in a way, this movie kinda took away from vadar being the “ultimate badass” and kinda made him a “confused conflicted dude with a superhigh midichloran count”.  Necessary for his conversion to the Light Side in Jedi, but not exactly the image of a Sith Lord of being inherently evil to the bone.

[Darth Sidious]

The Clone Wars 2nd Season explains Grevious' coughing.  Long story short, Mace crushes his chest with the Force just as the good General is escaping Coruscant with Palpatine.

Grevious: Coolness, plain and simple. Even if he does go out like a punk.

I thought his chronic bronchitis was unnecessary, and his voice was such that it was kinda difficult to hear what he was saying.

[J. Carney]

OK, I WAS NOT impressed with the overall acting in the movie.

Natale Portman has a face that was made for the big screen, but her acting abilities would be more at home in porno. She was TERRIBLE- I've had girlfriends that were more convincing actresses. She didn't fool me into thinking that crying was genuine for one second.

And going down that ramp at a full trot at 9 months? You gotta be kidding me!!!

All in all, C3PO did a FAR better job in the acting department.


Now for the rest of the movie, which is very redeaming in the face of the nightmare that is Ms. Portman.

The lightsaber sequences were absolutely STUNNING. They aren't as good as what you can imagine from reading the book, but then agian your imagination does a better job of setting the scene than human actors with human limitations ever can.

General Grevious was well done, and I liked the fact that he seemed to have been rescued from death's door, and was now lingering on the threshold in that droid body, hoping to finish his task of destroying the Republic. The lightsaber fight was a lot like the book- though far abriviated.

The mass battle scenes- both in space and on land- were awesome. The ships were all well designed, and the Vigilence(?)-class Star Destroyers gave a real sense of design heritage. The fighter combat kinda got lost in the big fight scenes- buit that's a good thing. Small details do get lost in big battles... even if they are what you are TRYING to focus one. Nice attempt at trying to throw the confusion of battle into the movie.


Also, it was nice to get a peak at some of the characters in the original series and how they got to where they were in Ep. IV.


The best lines IMO, got left out. I'll save those particular transgressions for a few days from now when most have seen it. EDIT: Now that we have a spoilers thread, here are those issues:

I couldn't believe that Palpatine's best lines in the book weren't in there. They cut out the WHOLE conversation in the Chansellor's office. When he tells Anikin "You wouldn't kill me over a philosophical difference" or "When I told you you could have anything that you wanted, did you think that excluded my life" really set the stage for Vader's undying (or would that be 'undead') devotion to the Emperor... and strangely a devotion to Vader by Palpatine.

Also, where R2 and 3P0 are talking at the appartment right before Mustafar and you actually get to hear R2 complaingin that "I never get told ANYTHING"... that was one of the funniest parts of the whole book, at least to me. Having that pop up on the starfighter's screen wasn't practical from the angle we were at in that shot, but it woud have been nice.

Also, some of Anikin's best 'born again hard' lines were in the Command Center at Mustafar- and all that was just 'saber slinging in the movie. In the book, he get's some pretty snappy comebacks to a all the whining and begging- like this:

Woman: "The Emperor said that we'd be rewarded handsomely!"
Skywalker: "Don't you find me handsome?" and he beheads her.

All in all, I'm satisfied, but I won't be making a return trip.

[Darth Sidious]

I think the flippant comments from Vader on Mustafar being cut was a good thing.  It really wasnt the time for the audience to be cracking up as each leader of the Confederacy was brutally killed.

That said, the comments were hillarious

[J. Carney]

I think the flippant comments from Vader on Mustafar being cut was a good thing.  It really wasnt the time for the audience to be cracking up as each leader of the Confederacy was brutally killed.

That said, the comments were hillarious

Well, since Vader was supposed to be the worst of the worst, I think that the scene would have been a really good 'fleshing out' of just HOW twisted Anikin had become. He's not only brutally killing these (arguably) innocent people... he's ENJOYING it, and even perhaps trying to make it even more horrible for them, because the worse it is for them, the more he savors it.

For me, it was the equivelent of taking Hannibal Lechter's immortal 'fava beens and a nice chianti' line and reducing it to 'yep, I ate him.'

[Iceman]

Mace V Sidious. Ever think that Sids was faking losing to draw Anakin in? Especially considering how quickly he unleashed hell on Mace after Mace was de-handed by Anakin?

That’s exactly what I thought.  “Fake” losing, offer up himself to Anni as the only salvation for Padme, forcing Anni to choose.

Grevious: Coolness, plain and simple. Even if he does go out like a punk.

I thought his chronic bronchitis was unnecessary, and his voice was such that it was kinda difficult to hear what he was saying.

Final Battle:  Awesome beyond belief.... EXCEPT for Anakin's last jump. OBI's lines right after Anakin gets de-limbed were by far the best in the entire movie...

I dug Anni’s jump.  Like how Obi squeezed in “I win, I control the high ground, don’t do it” right before it happened.  But here’s what I’m going to have to watch for the next time I see this movie (later tonite).  Anni’s right hand is the one that got cut-off in Attack of the Clones, but wasn’t cut off in Sith.  When anni jumped and got de-limbed, was he holding the light sabre in the right hand or left hand?  If right hand, does the movie show Anni “losing” the lightsabre or was it clutched in the left hand when Obi picked it up.  I can’t remember.

Obi-Wan picks it Anakins sabre as he walks away. I'm almost positive I saw it, it was like a 1/2 second shot. More an afterthought. It was on the ground though, Anakin lost it.

[AcePylut]

Ah ya, I think I didn't explain myself clearly.  I saw Obi pick it up, that's not in question.

What I was questioning is was... Anni's "right handed" if I remember correctly... before he jumped, was the lightsabre in his right or left hand?  I don't recall if it was in his right hand or left hand.  If it was in his right hand (the metal one that wasn't cut off), how did the sabre "come loose"?  If it was in his left hand, mystery solved... it came loose when his left arm got chopped.

I'll know by Monday when I see it again this weekend.  I'll be watching for it.  Then again, I might have to wait for the DVD so I can frame advance it. 

Perhaps this is the "Han shot Greedo before Greedo fired" mistake of RotS

[Iceman]

Does it really matter? I mean, getting your legs literally cut out from under me would make me drop what I'm holding.

Kinda interesting though.

[Just plain old Punisher]

I watched it last night, when JAR JAR first appeared in the scene after the battle for corscant everyone in the theatre groaned. lol

[Iceman]

Yeah, same here.

[J. Carney]

Ah ya, I think I didn't explain myself clearly.  I saw Obi pick it up, that's not in question.

What I was questioning is was... Anni's "right handed" if I remember correctly... before he jumped, was the lightsabre in his right or left hand?  I don't recall if it was in his right hand or left hand.  If it was in his right hand (the metal one that wasn't cut off), how did the sabre "come loose"?  If it was in his left hand, mystery solved... it came loose when his left arm got chopped.

I'll know by Monday when I see it again this weekend.  I'll be watching for it.  Then again, I might have to wait for the DVD so I can frame advance it. 

Perhaps this is the "Han shot Greedo before Greedo fired" mistake of RotS

I think that his saber was in his left and hewas using his right to run the little platform he was on. Not sure, but I THINK that was it.

IF not, you can always let reality creep in a bit and say that he was in so much pain that he dropped his saber again, like on Grevious's ship.

[KnightAdvancer]

Perhaps someone can help me understand the last bit at the end? So was Yoda the apprentince that slew Darth Plaguey the 'Wise' or was it Qui Gon Jinn?

Also, this movie convinced me that Vader and Sidious are chump Sith Lords. Malak and Revan, they're some Lord's for ya. When will we get some movies about them? Not that I didn't enjoy this one, but I am eager to explore other timelines and sagas in this universe on the big screen.

[Iceman]

It was Sidious, I believe. I don't think they come right out and say it.

Yeah, I also get the feeling the Jedi of the Star Wars movie series are kinda pansies.

In KOTORII, there's a line like "If you could have seen the Jedi of old battle, you'd realized we are merely children playing with toys." in reference to lightsaber combat. That was 5,000 years before "A New Hope"...so take that for what its worth.

[J. Carney]

Perhaps someone can help me understand the last bit at the end? So was Yoda the apprentince that slew Darth Plaguey the 'Wise' or was it Qui Gon Jinn?

Palpatine was the one that slew Darth Palagious, killing him as he slept to become the Sith Master. Plagious was his Master, and tought Palpatine how to artificially preserve life. Palpatine is in his 60's* in Episode III (IIRC) and this means he's into his 90's by Return of the Jedi. His continued verility at such an advanced age, like his walking fine without his cane when he wishes, or being able to fry a 20-something Jedi with Force Lightening with no real problem, is a result of that knowledge.

*Actually, we're never told how old he is. He could be CENTURIES old, I'm just going on how old he LOOKS.

Also, this movie convinced me that Vader and Sidious are chump Sith Lords. Malak and Revan, they're some Lord's for ya. When will we get some movies about them? Not that I didn't enjoy this one, but I am eager to explore other timelines and sagas in this universe on the big screen.

Malak and Revan aren't chumps?

Revan was captuerd by an upstart of half his power and experience, turned from the Dark Side and then used agianst his old apprentice, COMPLETELY without his own knowledge. And when he DID find out that he had an entire empire he could have ruled- and used to conqure the Galaxy- he decided 'Nah, I think I'll stick it out as a good guy.'

That's pretty easilly manipulated and fairly chumpish, IMHO

Malak... well, he couldn't even kill his own master. Vader manages to do that without even really calling on the Force. Sidious (Palpatine) was smart enough to catch his master sleeping and kill him, thereby negating the chance for failure.


Who's the chumps now.


Note- this wasn't meant to be inflamitory, just to show my opinion. However, since I have a really good suit of "+2 Asbestous Armor of Anti-Flaming", feel free to take offense and rail agianst me if you so choose.

[KnightAdvancer]

In KOTORII, there's a line like "If you could have seen the Jedi of old battle, you'd realized we are merely children playing with toys." in reference to lightsaber combat. That was 5,000 years before "A New Hope"...so take that for what its worth.

Or to the effect of, anyway. Kreia was speaking with regards to Lightsaber skills.

Palpatine was the one that slew Darth Palagious, killing him as he slept to become the Sith Master. Plagious was his Master, and tought Palpatine how to artificially preserve life. Palpatine is in his 60's* in Episode III (IIRC) and this means he's into his 90's by Return of the Jedi. His continued verility at such an advanced age, like his walking fine without his cane when he wishes, or being able to fry a 20-something Jedi with Force Lightening with no real problem, is a result of that knowledge.

*Actually, we're never told how old he is. He could be CENTURIES old, I'm just going on how old he LOOKS.

Ah, thanks. The movie was moving pretty fast, and I haven't read the book (always read the book last.) Guess I got it jumbled up.

Malak and Revan aren't chumps?

Revan was captured by an upstart of half his power and experience, turned from the Dark Side and then used against his old apprentice, COMPLETELY without his own knowledge. And when he DID find out that he had an entire empire he could have ruled- and used to conquer the Galaxy- he decided 'Nah, I think I'll stick it out as a good guy.'

That's pretty easilly manipulated and fairly chumpish, IMHO Roll Eyes

Malak... well, he couldn't even kill his own master. Vader manages to do that without even really calling on the Force. Sidious (Palpatine) was smart enough to catch his master sleeping and kill him, thereby negating the chance for failure.


Who's the chumps now. Wink


Note- this wasn't meant to be inflamitory, just to show my opinion. However, since I have a really good suit of "+2 Asbestous Armor of Anti-Flaming", feel free to take offense and rail agianst me if you so choose. Grin

Sidious feared the Jedi. Hid from them. Talked to Vader in private in how they could potentially destroy them. Tried to flee when Yoda confronted him. Revan did not fear them, never hid from him. He captured them, broke them, made them his followers (the ancient Sith storehouse of knowledge he found on Malachor V probably helped him here in this regard). He crushed the Mandalorians when the Republic gave away before, and then corrupted his own army and began crushing the Republic too. His one mistake was misjudging Malak. He did not expect him to be so bold as to strike against when the Jedi boarded his ship in their desperate last-ditch attempt to stop his onslaught.

Sidious struck down his own master while he was sleeping. Vader toss Sidious into the great black drink, but suffered mortal wounds by doing so. Malak too tried to overthrow his master, using his warship (he knew he couldn't best Revan in personal combat). He took advantage of an opportune moment caused by a last attempt by the Jedi to stop his slaughter. He gets the nod for being decisive, atleast, but it was not Revan's fate to die their. The council needed Revan's power, for his apprentice, Malak, was too strong for them to deal with. They Jedi Council never truely controlled Revan. They gave him a fasle memory, taught him a few things, and set him loose on a road, hoping and praying that this conflict would play out favorably. They knew that they galaxy was in Revan's hands.  In the end, evil Revan lured the Jedi and Republic into a trap at the Star Forge and crushed them, and took Bastila, the sole person, who, due to her Battle Meditation, was able to keep the Republic from being completely overpowered, as his apprentice. Righteous Revan managed to save Bastila from his own corruption, kill Malak at a very heart of the Darkside while feeding off the power of captured Jedi, and then give freedom to the galaxy, even though the galaxy was in his hands. *This* is what makes Revan a truely great Sith Lord, I think.

Kreia, the great Jedi archive keeper, who knew as much as perhaps anyone about the Force and it's histories, declared Revan the greatest Sith Lord that ever lived. In fact, she said, "Revan was power. Looking into his eyes was like looking into the very heart of the force." Sidious hid and plotted like a rat. Vader was a angsty teenager. Revan and Malak were great champions of the Jedi, among their very brightest. They made the Jedi hide from *them.* Revan out-thought and overpowered his enemies (Malak just overpowered), Revan made them his followers (as well as Malak to a lesser degree [he was seemingly more in crushing them]), and Revan had the spirit to resist the darkside (Malak did not, unforunately). Plus, Revan had a really spiffy Darth robe and Malak had his spine-chilling voice. So, yes, Sidious and Vader are chumps.

[J. Carney]

Acrually, I just view Sidious and Vader as a different kind of terrifying. Notice that the Jedi are scared of them, even though they outnumber the Sith several thousand to two.

Both pair are dangerous in their own way.

I'd personally like to see the next movie set in the Golden Age of the Sith... imagine, the Great Hyperspace Wars!!!

[J. Carney]

Ah, thanks. The movie was moving pretty fast, and I haven't read the book (always read the book last.) Guess I got it jumbled up.

Oh, Tremok... READ THE BOOK!!!

IT's FAR better than the movie, there are a lot more cool lines for EVERYONE, especially Anikin/Vader and Palpy in the book... but even Obi-wan gets to play the smartarse on occasion.

[Darth Sidious]

(Book)

Imagine Obi waking up, and the first thing to see is Anakin's behind.

Truely a ROFL moment... especially if you listen to the audiobook reading of it.