Topic: PPD never hits cloaked ships in OP v2.5.5.2

[Corbomite]

IT IS NOT A BUG! THE PPD WILL NOT HIT WITHOUT A LOCK ON! YOU MUST ROLE FOR LOCK ON TO A CLOAKED SHIP AND AT LOW SPEEDS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HIT  IT BECAUSE THE NUMBER NEEDED IS TOO LOW.

The equation to (re)aquire a Lock On is:


P = S - (EW) - RF + SF - 10

Where:

P = Probability of aquiring a Lock On

S = Sensor rating of ship trying to Lock On (max sensor rating is 6 in SFC, no Scout functions)

EW = Electronic Warfare adjustment

RF = Range Adjustment Factor

SF = Speed Adjustment Factor

You must role equal to or less than the result of this equation.


So for example if the target is going speed 0 and is at range 4 from the PPD ship the equation looks like this (assuming no EW shift):


P = 6 - (0) - 0 + (-2) - 10

Your chance to Lock On is negative 6 on a six sided die.



If the target is going speed 1 - 4 the equation looks like this:


P = 6 - (0) - 0 + 0 - 10

Your chance to Lock On is negative 4 on a six sided die.



If the target is going max cloaked speed without setting off mines (speed 6) the equation looks like this:

P = 6 - (0) - 0 + 1 - 10

Your chance to Lock On is negative 3 on a six sided die.


If the target is going the max speed (or faster) that the chart allows which is 19+ the equation looks like this:


P = 6 - (0) - 0 + 6 - 10

Your chance to Lock On is 2 on a six sided die.


Now please stop saying its a bug.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

David would never intentionally put a bonus to any race in the game...to suggest otherwise is dishonorable

This bug was known and reported, one of many that could not be fixed.

Perhaps when the source code is released, the problem will be solved, along with the other remaining issues.

In the interim there are counter-measures that work against the exploit, just ask around.

Thank you Imperial Romulan Information Service-senior ...  I can't of a better place to ask than here, on the main community forum, on a thread focused on this very topic.

How do you beat the bug?

[Corbomite]

How do you beat the bug?

By cheating and I'm not going to tell you how since it isn't a bug.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

How do you beat the bug?

By cheating and I'm not going to tell you how since it isn't a bug.

O Poo...I was hoping it was a legitimate tactic...or do you know? hmm?

Anyway what you are saying is that if I'm flying a ROM X ship and going speed 31 the PPD still only has a 33% chance of hitting...correct?

[Corbomite]

Correct although it has a 33% chance of gaining a Lock On to be able to hit, then you must roll To Hit. Now if you manage to flash the ship, thereby automatically gaining a Lock On, the formula for retaining a Lock On is much more liberal. In fact at range 4 and speed 1 - 4 you will automatically retain it and hit with all four pulses, assuming you make the To Hit roll.

I am probably only one of two people who know the cheat and I never use it, but it does exsist.

[Joku]

We tested PPD against cloaked ship going at speed 20+ and none of the PPDs made a single hit at range 4. Romulan didn't use ECM or erratic maneuveurs and ISC's ECCM was at full. And we fired a lot of them.

PPD's also always lost lock-on when ship recloaked after mine flash and remaining pulses didn't hit.

[Corbomite]

What range? There is a chance you just rolled badly a lot. Did the ship go closer than 4 at all? I have had the PPD retain Lock On after cloaking. As I said, you still have to roll To Hit. 83% is not 100%. I guess I'll have to get in there and test it again. I suppose it is possible they used the attain formula only for both instances. Keep in mind that each pulse must make the roll(s) independantly. I'd forgotten that when I posted earlier.

[Corbomite]

OK I just tested it and I had one pulse hit after cloaking (out of about 30 shots). I do believe they are not using the correct retaining formula as it should have hit more at the range I was at. The aquring formula seems to be working correctly, but I don't have a live player right now to do specific things. Be that as it may, the PPD still won't hit without a Lock On, whatever system they use to get/lose the Lock On. Dave may have indeed left it a little tight to help improve the cloak. Look at it this way, it makes up for the fact that MIRV submunitions ignore the cloak entirely.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

OK I just tested it and I had one pulse hit after cloaking (out of about 30 shots). I do believe they are not using the correct retaining formula as it should have hit more at the range I was at. The aquring formula seems to be working correctly, but I don't have a live player right now to do specific things. Be that as it may, the PPD still won't hit without a Lock On, whatever system they use to get/lose the Lock On. Dave may have indeed left it a little tight to help improve the cloak. Look at it this way, it makes up for the fact that MIRV submunitions ignore the cloak entirely.

Not unless the ISC acquire MIRVs I would think.

Anyway I noticed the cloak works really well now against plasma but less well against drones in general, epecially a whole mess of them. 

[Pestalence_XC]

OK I just tested it and I had one pulse hit after cloaking (out of about 30 shots). I do believe they are not using the correct retaining formula as it should have hit more at the range I was at. The aquring formula seems to be working correctly, but I don't have a live player right now to do specific things. Be that as it may, the PPD still won't hit without a Lock On, whatever system they use to get/lose the Lock On. Dave may have indeed left it a little tight to help improve the cloak. Look at it this way, it makes up for the fact that MIRV submunitions ignore the cloak entirely.

Not unless the ISC acquire MIRVs I would think.

Anyway I noticed the cloak works really well now against plasma but less well against drones in general, epecially a whole mess of them.

Incorrect.. If you slow your ship to speed 4 while cloaked.. 98% of the missles will lose lock immediately.. the rest will lose lock 1 to 5 seconds later... and even then they hit acording to the damage chart that effects cloak as stated in patch 2552 readme :

6) While under cloak, Weapons damage is reduced according to the following chart:
   33.3% chance weapon does normal damage.
   33.3% chance weapon does 1/2 damage.
   33.3% chance weapon does 1/4 damage.

This makes drones even less effective against cloak..

To be honest with you.. on GW 5, I've had more luck getting a Plas F to hit on a suicidal overrun than I did firing 12 missles at my target.. 6 of them hit from a Scatter Pack (launched right over my target) for a lousy 10 pts damage and that was through a down shield and I heard all 6 hit.. Yet I had 2 Plas F hit in a different match on a cloaked ship through a downed rear shield and they did 18 pts damage...

Speed is a critical factor when concerned with Cloak.. the faster you go, the less effective your cloak is.

and as Corb stated.. the rolls that the game makes effect things alot as well.

[Rod ONeal]

No, you didn't drop a SP on a cloaking ship @ range zero! ...and you said that you don't cheat.

That's another bug. Seeking shuttles don't use a control channel and don't loose lock on to a cloaked target.

You mentioned that the plasmas were more effective against the cloak. That sounds correct since plasma has a +3 ECCM. Does OP give plasma the ECCM, to your knowledge?

[Pestalence_XC]

No, you didn't drop a SP on a cloaking ship @ range zero! ...and you said that you don't cheat.

That's another bug. Seeking shuttles don't use a control channel and don't loose lock on to a cloaked target.

You mentioned that the plasmas were more effective against the cloak. That sounds correct since plasma has a +3 ECCM. Does OP give plasma the ECCM, to your knowledge?

No.. SP was dropped before ship went to cloak, but ship cloaked while SP was in air (I ate 2 Plas s before he cloaked)... they all (6) plus 2 normal missles (rest lost lock on) hit for 10 pts. through down shield.. Rom speed was 3...

Same goes for the 2 plas F I fired in different match... He fired Plas R (which I ate) and I fired 2 Plas F.. he cloaked to negate plas F but still had speed 6 going (and slowing) and the Plas F hit thru down shield.. this got 18 Pts damage.

No Cheat or exploit used.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Well I just had a nightmare game last night.

Lasted two hours into a stalmate.  ISC BB vs KCN (my opponnent)

Two hours and we both called it quits.  After my mines were gone I had no way to hit this guy except with innumerable fly bys and phaser shots.  The occasional pulse I managed to slip by at the rate I could manage it probably didn't even keep ahead of his regen rate.  He couldn't hit me and I could hit him but barely...so I suppose i would have won in 6 or 7 hours.  But the KCn is fairly immune to that kind of tactic, especially against a DN class ship with only 11 phaser 1's.  He had PF's and I had fighters as well.  Buit thjey were used up and countered.

My real objection to this "new cloak" is that the full effects oftentimes take place before the ship is completely cloaked.

I don't know what SFB says.  The way I see it if I guy can make you miss at will simply by tapping his cloak button  the game suffers baddly.    Add that to the fact that you cannot hit and run the cloak once out of mines you can sometimes just be out of luck. 

Nothing is worse than spending a whole lot of time manuevering and calculating a damage exchange (I am going speed 26 and firing an S torp at range 7 against a return R torp shot) only to find out that one impulse into his "cloaking" transition your S torp is completely gone after it leaves your ship against a ship not even fully cloaked.

So my question is...

What are the rules in SFB.  When a ship is in the process of cloaking what are the percentages of the "cloak" having an effect?   How many impusles does it take to transition?   Is it a set amount or a gradient or should it have no effect until the cloak is completely set?

These things need to be tested for I do not trust what I am seeing.

[Rod ONeal]

In SFB it takes 5 impulses to completely cloak/uncloak. During this "fade" period the effective range increases by +1 per impulse. At full cloak range is double whatever the actual range is (assuming lock-on is lost) +5.

With that said, as has already been pointed out, the PPD won't hit period without a lock-on in SFB.

[kiloton]

You should not lose lock-on to the cloaking ship until it is fully cloaked.  As mentioned before, the effective range to the target should increase by one per impulse until 5 impulses later, when a check for retaining lock-on should be made.  If lock on is lost, then seeking weapons go away.  If not, then they continue to the target.

I am confused.  Is there really a difference here between SFC and SFB?  Can you just tap the cloak button and make stuff go away without waiting for the entire fade period?

Anyone?

Ken

[Corbomite]

You should not lose lock-on to the cloaking ship until it is fully cloaked.  As mentioned before, the effective range to the target should increase by one per impulse until 5 impulses later, when a check for retaining lock-on should be made.  If lock on is lost, then seeking weapons go away.  If not, then they continue to the target.

I am confused.  Is there really a difference here between SFC and SFB?  Can you just tap the cloak button and make stuff go away without waiting for the entire fade period?

Anyone?

Ken

No. The fade period is in effect.