Topic: TV ENTERPRISE MIRROR MIRROR TONIGHT

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

I think it's awsome.

-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Sussman said that he knew people were going to complain that he gave the ship rear photons, but points out that this is the Defiant and not the Enterprise (also, he felt that, if his ship had them, he should give it to the original as well).

Finally got to watch my tape last night and, thus, open this thread.  I recall lifting my eyebrows on that scene.

Archer <to Reed>:  Does this thing have aft firing torpedos?
Me <to myself>:  No, it doesn't.  You'd better do something clever
Reed <to Archer>:  You bet it does.

And away the torpedos go......

Well, this I don't really get.

He clearly intended this to be "our" Defiant, from The Tholian Wev.  He knows aft torpedos aren't in the source material, and he knows they will upset people.  And he's the writer, so he can set the story up anyway he wants such that aft torps aren't even needed.  But he sticks them in anyway just 'cause he thinks they are cool.

It's a minor point in the middle of a story I enjoyed.  But it's an odd way to write a prequel

-S'Cipio

[Hexx]

Think of the Enterprise as being a Constitution class outfitted for exploring
and the Defiant as being outfitted as a warship.
(My understanding suggests that different Seawolf and Los Angeles class are outfitted differently)

And the "source material" is just messed up.
(Don't think people were quite as ..obsessed back in the 60's  )

[GDA-S'Cipio]

the "source material" is just messed up.
(Don't think people were quite as ..obsessed back in the 60's  )

My favorite scene from TOS:  The changling


<The Enterprise has just been fired on by an unknown vessel.>

Spock:  Captain, that weapon was the equivalent of 200 of our photon torpedos.  Our shields can only withstand 2 more hits.

Kirk:  Fire a photon!

Sulu: <presses a button>

Spock:  No damage, Captain.  The photon was absorbed.

Kirk:  <increduously>  What  could absorb that much power?


Still cracks me up, everytime.  I've always assumed that had to be some sort of inside joke.


-S'Cipio

[ShadowLord]

Hexx--
NON SFC STUFF--- LOS ANGLES VS SEAWOLF

I could be way off base here seeing as how I am just an armchair critic..

But the seawolf (if it lives up to what it was supposed to be able to do ) blows even the improved LA class subs right out of the water..

Faster
Quieter
Better armed and better sensors...
However the seawolf was really designed to go after the soviet ballistic missile submarine fleet and that mission no longer has the priority it once did, add to that the cost of the seawolf and the program was stalled at 3 ships instead of the 29? originally planed.

Again never having been in the navy I can only go off the "public" information but -- the seawolf is supposed to be at least one full generation ahead of the LA class boats in just about everything that matters.
As far as I know the only sub that even comes close to comparison is the new Virginia Class Attack subs -- which they produced as a cheaper more limited version of the SeaWolf .

ShadowLord

[OlBuzzard]

REAR firing torps on the Enterprise ??

LOL ...   sorry .. as much as I dont always agree with the way some have griped about the NX-1  ( which is a good model ) ...  I must confess that this is a really BAD blooper.

Two of the main reasons that the Miranda class was supposedly at a tactical advantage of the Connie was due to the two "super" phasers  ( sorry the tech-no- babel escapes me for the time being ...)  .. and the AFT torps !!!

OY !!  I cant believe they missed that one !!

[Ravok]

 The writer said in a interview he knew he knew he was going to catch hell for them,and the blue phasers.

[Hexx]

Hexx--
NON SFC STUFF--- LOS ANGLES VS SEAWOLF

I could be way off base here seeing as how I am just an armchair critic..

But the seawolf (if it lives up to what it was supposed to be able to do ) blows even the improved LA class subs right out of the water..

Faster
Quieter
Better armed and better sensors...
However the seawolf was really designed to go after the soviet ballistic missile submarine fleet and that mission no longer has the priority it once did, add to that the cost of the seawolf and the program was stalled at 3 ships instead of the 29? originally planed.

Again never having been in the navy I can only go off the "public" information but -- the seawolf is supposed to be at least one full generation ahead of the LA class boats in just about everything that matters.
As far as I know the only sub that even comes close to comparison is the new Virginia Class Attack subs -- which they produced as a cheaper more limited version of the SeaWolf .

ShadowLord

Thanks Shadow

I actually meant though that afaik Some LA class submarines and some Seawolf class have been modified from the original design
so there is actually different equipment on them.- even though all are considered a Loas Angeles or a Seawolf class submarine respectively.
If they do this now I see no reason why all Consitution class ships a few hundred years from now should be identical.

We know the Enterprise was outfitted for a "Five Year Mission To Explore.." maybe the Defiant was outfitted for a five year
mission to blow things up.
The Show- as produced originally- wasn't meant to have all this intense scruntiny directed at it.
Alot of the stories make absolutley no technical sense (see Scip's quote ) but most of the "hard to explain" stuff gets overlooked.
Defiant was (afaik) never shown in the original series firing any weapons.
Therefore in cannon Star Trek it had rear mounted weapons and blue phasers 

[FPF-DieHard]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

[Ravok]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

 They seemed to switch for no apparent reason.

 The first phasers where wight, and looked like photons and made no sound.

 Then they switched them to beam weapons. That switched between blue and red, depending on the year and episode.

 Thats why I'm not all that bent about the defiant having rear photons. If they didn't use canon then why be anal about it now?

[OlBuzzard]

I definately agree about the phaser thingy ..  they changed it several times  ...

but the AFT torps ...   hehehehe  ( well  ...   it is kind of a blooper ) I'm not the sort to "fry" some one over it ...   but it is a little out of place !

[OlBuzzard]

Hexx--
NON SFC STUFF--- LOS ANGLES VS SEAWOLF

I could be way off base here seeing as how I am just an armchair critic..

But the seawolf (if it lives up to what it was supposed to be able to do ) blows even the improved LA class subs right out of the water..

Faster
Quieter
Better armed and better sensors...
However the seawolf was really designed to go after the soviet ballistic missile submarine fleet and that mission no longer has the priority it once did, add to that the cost of the seawolf and the program was stalled at 3 ships instead of the 29? originally planed.

Again never having been in the navy I can only go off the "public" information but -- the seawolf is supposed to be at least one full generation ahead of the LA class boats in just about everything that matters.
As far as I know the only sub that even comes close to comparison is the new Virginia Class Attack subs -- which they produced as a cheaper more limited version of the SeaWolf .

ShadowLord

it was this this clear cut advantage of the SeaWolf class that I chose to rename the Advanced Cruiser designs I've been involved with to the "SeaWolf" class as well.  Their maneuverability, and stealthy design approach is excellent for the class of ship they are !

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

 They seemed to switch for no apparent reason.

 The first phasers where wight, and looked like photons and made no sound.

 Then they switched them to beam weapons. That switched between blue and red, depending on the year and episode.

 Thats why I'm not all that bent about the defiant having rear photons. If they didn't use canon then why be anal about it now?

That the phasers lookded like photons briefly in TOS has been documented in either stephen whitfields the making of star trek, or David Gerrold's the world of star trek as a production house error and no time or budget to fix. The very early ship phasers were yellow at one point with a different sound effects and the photons in "arena" were wobbly things. Once they got it all figured out, blue phasers became the norm.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

Hey, would you mind if I took that pic and used it now and again?  I've the feeling it could come in useful for the Mirror Mirror server, and a (hopefully) upcoming Cestus Incident server.  And for just general picking on a few of the Bruce from time to time

-S'Cipio

[Dfly]

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

Hey, would you mind if I took that pic and used it now and again?  I've the feeling it could come in useful for the Mirror Mirror server, and a (hopefully) upcoming Cestus Incident server.  And for just general picking on a few of the Bruce from time to time

-S'Cipio

heyhey, we will have none of that Cestus in this family.

[Ravok]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

 They seemed to switch for no apparent reason.

 The first phasers where wight, and looked like photons and made no sound.

 Then they switched them to beam weapons. That switched between blue and red, depending on the year and episode.

 Thats why I'm not all that bent about the defiant having rear photons. If they didn't use canon then why be anal about it now?

That the phasers lookded like photons briefly in TOS has been documented in either stephen whitfields the making of star trek, or David Gerrold's the world of star trek as a production house error and no time or budget to fix. The very early ship phasers were yellow at one point with a different sound effects and the photons in "arena" were wobbly things. Once they got it all figured out, blue phasers became the norm.

 Thanks for the Info. Tobin!   I allways wondered, what exactly was the deal there. +1 for you

 Personally I like the Blue Phasers.  And I allways thought not having rear firing Photons was just stupid.
 Its the only weapon you can fire at warp ( I believe) And a good way to keep somebody off your tail if you are turning or trying to disengage.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Actually all TOS weapons could fire at warp and the ship could even turn without dropping out of warp. "the ultimate computer" for example, enterprise does warp 3 and 4 firing phasers at the wargame starships as well as firing photons at the automated ore freighter.

[Ravok]

Actually all TOS weapons could fire at warp and the ship could even turn without dropping out of warp. "the ultimate computer" for example, enterprise does warp 3 and 4 firing phasers at the wargame starships as well as firing photons at the automated ore freighter.

 You know the TOS well. Half of this I have forgotten. 

[Alidar Jarok]

Two of the main reasons that the Miranda class was supposedly at a tactical advantage of the Connie was due to the two "super" phasers  ( sorry the tech-no- babel escapes me for the time being ...)  .. and the AFT torps !!!

I thought the main reason the Reliant had a tactical advantage over the Enterprise is because they knocked out main power with a Phaser blast and crippled the ship.

BTW, the one consistant thing about the Enterprise that I've always heard is that she is fast.  Not only do I recall this in several episodes, but, in the Phase II series they never made, they were going to specifically mention that the Enterprise is faster than Klingon ships.  Its possible that the Defiant, instead of being fast, was more heavily armed.

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

Hey, would you mind if I took that pic and used it now and again?  I've the feeling it could come in useful for the Mirror Mirror server, and a (hopefully) upcoming Cestus Incident server.  And for just general picking on a few of the Bruce from time to time

-S'Cipio

Use it all you want

[ShadowLord]

Hexx..seawolf and LA class works as a comparison (sort of ) for what you were visioning -- however go with the old B52 as a prime example

The original b52 was dumping Dummy bombs or the big nuke--

Today it can still fill that mission but adds Stand off ranged weapons, improved ew gear etc etc ..

So yep it could be that the CA class we saw was one that had undergone numerous upgrades in an attempt to help increase it's ability to survive.

Workable..but for those of us who grew up watching Jimmy Boy..well it was just wrong to give that ship all those extra tactical advantages.

ShadowLord