Topic: TV ENTERPRISE MIRROR MIRROR TONIGHT

[ShadowLord]

Isnt tonight part two of the Mirror Mirror episode?

Safe to say the first part meet with great approval and if more of the episodes were like these -- the show would have had great ratings..

ShadowLord

[ShadowLord]

Grrrr checking my TV guide and it doesnt show up for tonight ...Did I get the date mixed up or is my cable company just screwing me?

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Grrrr checking my TV guide and it doesnt show up for tonight ...Did I get the date mixed up or is my cable company just screwing me?

Money, it's gotta be your cable company.  Tonight is episode two.

-S'Cipio

[KBFLordKrueg]

Yeah, I see it in my area listing...8 pm on UPN.

[KDS-KYTARH]

Damn it freakin UPN has a baseball game on tonight in place of Enterprise ARRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!

[KDS-KYTARH]

Ok ,, i found it,, they repeat it sunday night at 8 I can see it then .

[Nemesis]

Damn it freakin UPN has a baseball game on tonight in place of Enterprise ARRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!

I am annoyed.  They seem to be showing Spiderman instead.   grrr.

[Pestalence_XC]

UPN 2 in my area is showing the final 4 episodes back to back for Enterprise... It picks up where last week left off...

I'm in Kerrville TX.. San Antonio and Kerrville Time Warner Cable and CeBridge Cable are doing this

I'm going to watch it to see how much of TOS they actuall screw up with the episodes.

[Pestalence_XC]

*********************Spoiler Alert *********************


























ROFL.. in the first 10 Min on the Defiant.. they fired bluish green aft phasers.. canon.. and  rear firing torps.. non canon... ROFL... Kirk didn't even have rear firing torps on the Enterprise, a newer version of the CA hull type... they were even rapid firing.. it shot 9 to the rear in a space of 3 seconds.. lol and they were blue like Quantums ... ROFLMAO..

Man what a riot.. great for the plot, but completely ficticious for TOS time line...

1/2 hour in.. no replicator cubes.. they have real food.. unknown where it came from.. ROFLMAO

[Hexx]

Technically TOS never actually said they don't have rear firing torps (face it. makes a lot more sense the way the ships are designed)
and sides- all those early "blueprints" are completely messed up...

[Pestalence_XC]

What I found amusing, the 2 times Torps were used in this episode.. not a single one missed.... lol

[Hexx]

Enterpirse
Putting the "magic" back in photons..



Hey with that last Hoshi/Archer scene I'm willing to overlook anything..

[FPF-DieHard]

What I found amusing, the 2 times Torps were used in this episode.. not a single one missed.... lol

think about the ranges fired at.   Range "2" is 20,000 KM.   

[TraumaTech]

UPN 2 in my area is showing the final 4 episodes back to back for Enterprise... It picks up where last week left off...

I'm in Kerrville TX.. San Antonio and Kerrville Time Warner Cable and CeBridge Cable are doing this

I'm going to watch it to see how much of TOS they actuall screw up with the episodes.

Enterpirse
Putting the "magic" back in photons..



Hey with that last Hoshi/Archer scene I'm willing to overlook anything..

drools with envy on both accounts

[Ravok]

What I found amusing, the 2 times Torps were used in this episode.. not a single one missed.... lol

think about the ranges fired at.   Range "2" is 20,000 KM.   

 Agreed. They where sitting praticaly on top of them. It would be hard to miss.

 And Pestalence remember when the phasers looked like photons in the earlyest episodes of TOS? They where white as well, and did not even make a phaser sound.

 

[Hexx]

What I found amusing, the 2 times Torps were used in this episode.. not a single one missed.... lol

think about the ranges fired at.   Range "2" is 20,000 KM.   

Please
I've missed with 4 torps at range 0

[FPF-DieHard]

What I found amusing, the 2 times Torps were used in this episode.. not a single one missed.... lol

think about the ranges fired at.   Range "2" is 20,000 KM.   

Please
I've missed with 4 torps at range 0

You're not a Fricking Good Guy

Anyone else beside me doing anything stupid like blow off their HO and their hommies to stay home and watch this only to have it pre-empter by a baseball game?

Combine that with J'inn calling my cell phone trying to get me to install Eve . . .

[Hexx]

*********************Spoiler Alert *********************


























ROFL.. in the first 10 Min on the Defiant.. they fired bluish green aft phasers.. canon.. and  rear firing torps.. non canon... ROFL... Kirk didn't even have rear firing torps on the Enterprise, a newer version of the CA hull type... they were even rapid firing.. it shot 9 to the rear in a space of 3 seconds.. lol and they were blue like Quantums ... ROFLMAO..

Man what a riot.. great for the plot, but completely ficticious for TOS time line...

1/2 hour in.. no replicator cubes.. they have real food.. unknown where it came from.. ROFLMAO

LOL first things mentioned in the writers commentary
'We're going to get letters about the rear phasers and torpedo" 

[Nemesis]

*********************Spoiler Alert *********************


























ROFL.. in the first 10 Min on the Defiant.. they fired bluish green aft phasers.. canon.. and  rear firing torps.. non canon... ROFL... Kirk didn't even have rear firing torps on the Enterprise, a newer version of the CA hull type... they were even rapid firing.. it shot 9 to the rear in a space of 3 seconds.. lol and they were blue like Quantums ... ROFLMAO..

Man what a riot.. great for the plot, but completely ficticious for TOS time line...

1/2 hour in.. no replicator cubes.. they have real food.. unknown where it came from.. ROFLMAO

LOL first things mentioned in the writers commentary
'We're going to get letters about the rear phasers and torpedo" 

The truth is the Tholians took the ship apart and put the  saucer on backwards.

[KBF-Reejr]

Well I like the way they redid the gorn.....just look at them only fatter and with a pink tutu ....oh wait we have one already.....

[el-Karnak]

*spoiler alert*



















Sniff, sniff. What's that BBQ smell?  ???


Why, it's fried Gorn on a grav plate.

Baddie Feds are so cool.  

[Chris Johnson]

The aft phasers I liked, because it'll stick there on the Big E once she gets her first-class Constitution-class Refit (Sorry Pest, I couldn't resist. ) complete with Wormhole-creating engine imbalances and huge clouds masking V'Ger's homecoming party.  The rear Photon Torpedoes I was if-iffy about because, well, where are they after the refit plans for the Constitution-class?  But I still liked how the Constitution-class was portrayed, how it was upgraded to today's standards, in some ways.  The Gorn was good too, I liked what they've done for the species.  I wouldn't necessarily call it a reshaped view of 'em as much as that they're a bit more diverse, much like how human individuals are physically unique from each other in many ways.

Overall a nice episode, but the glimpse of the Terran Empire Propoganda channel is over.  I wonder how much influence that TV channel gave Berman in Season 3's "Harbringer" [ENT]... The morals portrayed suit the Terran Empire, but it's nice to see how hope for a more-peaceful galaxy it could turn out to be (ignoring DS9's take at this parallel universe), how our morals can effect the Terran Empire negatively, but ultimately was never meant to be then, so it was back to back-stabbing whilst love-making.  I'm guessing next week's episode is more a mindful one, to provoke me to think about things, and that would be good, in my view.

[Hexx]

nah the Mirror episodes are cool- but there's no way any military organization could run with
all the (literal) backstabbing going on. It's an integral (and fun ) part, but it's the single most unrealistic
element in the stories.

[KAT J'inn]

Combine that with J'inn calling my cell phone trying to get me to install Eve . . .

A recap . . . .

-ring- -ring-

Die Hard:  Hi diddly ho caller.

J'inn:  Psst!  I got some good stuff for ya.

DH:  Oh hi J'inn.

J'inn:   SHHHHHHHH!!  This line ain't secure.   SO you want the good stuff or not?

DH:  What good stuff.

J'inn:  Pure Ether Crack.  First two week hit is free.

DH:  WHAO WHAO WHAO   I don't do that stuff.

J'inn: But it's soooooo good.  Trust me buddy.  Here just ask Kroma . . . .

Kroma:  Moan  ..  . drool . . . must have skills. . . . moan.

J'inn:  Ya hear the fun he's having?  Ya know you want some.

DH: But But But

J'inn: EMBRACE THE POWER OF THE MMORPG SIDE YOUNG DIE HARD!!

DH: But but I hear it sucks your brains out.

J'inn:  Oh that is silly.  Here listen to Warsears . . .

Warsears:  drool slobber grunt moan.

J'inn:   See he sez it's great great great.

DH: Umm J'inn how come you can talk?

J'inn:  Umm, well, I'm kinda getting paid to get people to play.

DH: WHAT!!!

J'inn:  HEY THEY PAY WELL WITH ALL THAT MONEY THEY ARE MAKING!!!

DH:  But you can talk!!

J'inn: Well you don't think I'm actually hooked do you!!??

DH: But Kroma said! . . . .

J'inn:  Hey I have a high tolerance for addictive exposure.

<from backgound>   Shopasaurus Rex:  J'inn you've been on the stupid computer for 30 hours straight!!  GET THE HELL OFF!!

J'inn: <cough>    Boy I've been busy doing work at home.   But trust me it's not addictive!

<from background> Shop Rex:  And I'm not going to buy you adult sized diapers you're going to have to walk to the bathroom!  I swear my mother told me that <insert rabid rapid fire bitching here>

J'inn:  Ummmm.  Heh   Gotta run.  

  

[Ravok]

nah the Mirror episodes are cool- but there's no way any military organization could run with
all the (literal) backstabbing going on. It's an integral (and fun ) part, but it's the single most unrealistic
element in the stories.

 I agree It would be almost impossible to get any thing acomplished,with everybody killing each other for position.

 There would be no cohesion or disipline. With out that you cease to funtion like a military unit.

[Chris Johnson]

That's why I believe it happens occasionally, or rare.  Something uncommon, perhaps, maybe not rare.  Especially when there's an opportunity for advancement for a person to take.  I'd like to think people at the Terran Empire are smart enough to do so without upsetting the balance of power and have the Empire squashed.  It would've been said person's biggest mistake to do so then.  That's the best reason I can come up with for its existance.  Other than that, I'm shrugging my shoulders.  I might just go read "Dark Mirror" again or find Jerome Bixby if he's still around and ask him about that (Just some info: Jerome Bixby wrote the story for "Mirror, Mirror" [TOS], incase anyone didn't know.). *shrug*

[el-Karnak]

The Roman Empire did a lot of back-stabbing, but in a more limited and controlled fashion and that empire rule 1/4 of the ancient world's population for centuries; not to mention, being the basis on present day western civilization. Actually, after Nero,  the Romans started appointing Emporers that were not related to the previous one to avoid the family feuds that pervaded Augustus Caesar's dynasty. Plus, the big boss always had the Praetorian Guard to keep the mob in line.  Only in 192 AD when the army units starting fighting with each other did the system begin to fall apart when the Empire was offered by the P. Guard to the highest bidder; but, this was merely was a sympton of a society in decline because the Roman birth rate was starting not to keep up with the roman death rate. Consequently, immigrants to the Empire (ie. the "civilized, conquered" barbarians) starting taking up more positions in Roman society; especially, the army posts on the frontier.  As the Roman numbers went down and barbarian numbers went up, coupled with rampant corruption, you have a society ready to fall apart...

So, I could see the Mirror, Mirror universe working as long as the Emporer had a firm grasp on the military and the backstabbing was controlled within the senior ranks of the service.  When an all-out civil war breaks out then the empire will start to crumble just like Rome in the 200s and 300s and the final coupe de grace came in the 400s.

BTW, I think part of the appeal of genres like Star Trek and Star Wars in popular culture is that the shows are subtly reliving ancient history in a different env. over and over again. Characters and settings may change, but the principles of empire building and destruction are always the same.

Oh yeah, now that I have put DH to sleep...

Here's the EVE-420 URL:

http://www.mmorpg.com/eve_trial.cfm

That's for all the nice things you called me on TS *snicker*

[Lepton]

Most blown potential for an episode ever.  I mean, Empress Sato, BARF!!!  Clearly a second act waste of time.  This episode was total filler.   Where is the engine room?   How can we have a TOS-based episode without the obligatory mano a mano engine room fight??  I was really disappointed not to see the twisty control in the turbo-elevator, and not to hear the push-button click of the com panel when Phlox talks to the bridge.  What this episode was screaming for was some tongue-in-cheek, and some irony.  Part of the original TOS Mirror episode was the absurdity of it.  These Mirror episodes are taking themselves too seriously, which is totally indicative of almost every alternate universe episode of every Sci-Fi show in existence, and particularly indicative of how the Mirror universe was used in DS9, with a heavy-handed moral vision.

Don't get me wrong.  I enjoyed a good bit of this episode, but it clearly was not firing on all cylinders and it could have been so much more.

[FPF-AJTK]

Come on Diehard, come over to the Dark side.... Youll like it.

I always said Id never pay to play, now Im paying for TWO accounts, lol. Toten has 3.

Its a 2 week free trial, what could it HURT to try it? If you dont like it, you can quit, no harm, no foul.

[Alidar Jarok]

Where is the engine room?   How can we have a TOS-based episode without the obligatory mano a mano engine room fight??

They were planning to have the Phlox-Trip fight in the engine room, but ran out of money.

I was listening to Mike Sussman's podcast (where he gives comments about the episode).

A few scenes were cut that might have been nice.  At one point, T'Pol does come back with a plate of colored cubes (for the Phlox-T'Pol conversation) and Phlox says something like "Out of all the things you could have chosen, you picked that?"  Not sure the line would work, just wanted to point out that it was cut.

As for Phasers and Photons.  There were blue phasers in the original series and, iirc, blue photons in the motion picture.  Sussman said that he knew people were going to complain that he gave the ship rear photons, but points out that this is the Defiant and not the Enterprise (also, he felt that, if his ship had them, he should give it to the original as well).

[Kroma BaSyl]

*********************Spoiler Alert *********************


ROFL.. in the first 10 Min on the Defiant.. they fired bluish green aft phasers.. canon.. and  rear firing torps.. non canon... ROFL... Kirk didn't even have rear firing torps on the Enterprise, a newer version of the CA hull type... they were even rapid firing.. it shot 9 to the rear in a space of 3 seconds.. lol and they were blue like Quantums ... ROFLMAO..

Man what a riot.. great for the plot, but completely ficticious for TOS time line...

1/2 hour in.. no replicator cubes.. they have real food.. unknown where it came from.. ROFLMAO

How is to say that the Defiant was from the "KirK TOS" universe. With infinite potential alter-verses, it could have been from one that was similar to "our" Kirks, but with the minor differences of rear/rapidly firing blue weapons.

At least that Mirror universe has fast-light on their feet beautiful lizards. Not like that Federation TOS propoganda. 

Now I have to go, I am starting to shake form a need for another Eve fix.

[Pestalence_XC]

*********************Spoiler Alert *********************


ROFL.. in the first 10 Min on the Defiant.. they fired bluish green aft phasers.. canon.. and rear firing torps.. non canon... ROFL... Kirk didn't even have rear firing torps on the Enterprise, a newer version of the CA hull type... they were even rapid firing.. it shot 9 to the rear in a space of 3 seconds.. lol and they were blue like Quantums ... ROFLMAO..

Man what a riot.. great for the plot, but completely ficticious for TOS time line...

1/2 hour in.. no replicator cubes.. they have real food.. unknown where it came from.. ROFLMAO

How is to say that the Defiant was from the "KirK TOS" universe. With infinite potential alter-verses, it could have been from one that was similar to "our" Kirks, but with the minor differences of rear/rapidly firing blue weapons.

At least that Mirror universe has fast-light on their feet beautiful lizards. Not like that Federation TOS propoganda.

Now I have to go, I am starting to shake form a need for another Eve fix.

The historical documentation records on the Defiant's computer core shows by historical comparisson (at least in the show) that it is from Kirk's Universe.. sister ship to the NCC-1701, only older.. at least from what is read off the terminals..

I agree the Gorn were done pretty well in Enterprise, looked more like a decendant of a dinosaur than an alligator.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The historical documentation records on the Defiant's computer core shows by historical comparisson (at least in the show) that it is from Kirk's Universe.. sister ship to the NCC-1701, only older.. at least from what is read off the terminals..

Not necessarily. If there are infinite alternate universes, that means the one that the Defiant came from could have been from one that was identical to "our" kirk's with only the minor change that lead to rear firing weapons. Everything else, including the history they read would have been the same as "our" kirk's. We are talking infinite here.

I agree the Gorn were done pretty well in Enterprise, looked more like a decendant of a dinosaur than an alligator.

Only one thing could have made it better (no not a tutu, but that couldn't have hurt) cheesy bug eyes.

[Mazeppa]

What I found amusing, the 2 times Torps were used in this episode.. not a single one missed.... lol

LOL, based on the least few years, I thought that was Canon.  Besides, they were at pretty close range.

[Mazeppa]

Without giving away any spoilers for the people that don't see the episode until Sunday or don't know about torrentspy.com, I have always liked Linda Park in Enterprise, and thought the character of Hoshi Sato was not really properly utilized.  I've enjoyed Enterprise the last two weeks, and I am sure Linda Park relished her role in these two episodes. 

[Alidar Jarok]

Only one thing could have made it better (no not a tutu, but that couldn't have hurt) cheesy bug eyes.

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

[Alidar Jarok]

And this is something I was planning to make even before the episode aired.  I finally got it to work right.  I figured some people here would appreciate it.

[Davey-E]

Only one thing could have made it better (no not a tutu, but that couldn't have hurt) cheesy bug eyes.

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

Alidar, Thats Fantastic
Is that from the Episode (obviously played around a little by yourself !)

Wow
Any More 

[Sirgod]

LOL AJ, Just what we need , An alternate Kroma 

Fantastic work man.

Stephen

[Alidar Jarok]

LOL AJ, Just what we need , An alternate Kroma 

Fantastic work man.

Stephen

I think I will do everything in my power to make sure I don't become an alternate Kroma

Davey-E, the Gorn pic is from the episode, I basically took the eyes from the original and copy-and-pasted it in place of the new eyes.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

I think it's awsome.

-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Sussman said that he knew people were going to complain that he gave the ship rear photons, but points out that this is the Defiant and not the Enterprise (also, he felt that, if his ship had them, he should give it to the original as well).

Finally got to watch my tape last night and, thus, open this thread.  I recall lifting my eyebrows on that scene.

Archer <to Reed>:  Does this thing have aft firing torpedos?
Me <to myself>:  No, it doesn't.  You'd better do something clever
Reed <to Archer>:  You bet it does.

And away the torpedos go......

Well, this I don't really get.

He clearly intended this to be "our" Defiant, from The Tholian Wev.  He knows aft torpedos aren't in the source material, and he knows they will upset people.  And he's the writer, so he can set the story up anyway he wants such that aft torps aren't even needed.  But he sticks them in anyway just 'cause he thinks they are cool.

It's a minor point in the middle of a story I enjoyed.  But it's an odd way to write a prequel

-S'Cipio

[Hexx]

Think of the Enterprise as being a Constitution class outfitted for exploring
and the Defiant as being outfitted as a warship.
(My understanding suggests that different Seawolf and Los Angeles class are outfitted differently)

And the "source material" is just messed up.
(Don't think people were quite as ..obsessed back in the 60's  )

[GDA-S'Cipio]

the "source material" is just messed up.
(Don't think people were quite as ..obsessed back in the 60's  )

My favorite scene from TOS:  The changling


<The Enterprise has just been fired on by an unknown vessel.>

Spock:  Captain, that weapon was the equivalent of 200 of our photon torpedos.  Our shields can only withstand 2 more hits.

Kirk:  Fire a photon!

Sulu: <presses a button>

Spock:  No damage, Captain.  The photon was absorbed.

Kirk:  <increduously>  What  could absorb that much power?


Still cracks me up, everytime.  I've always assumed that had to be some sort of inside joke.


-S'Cipio

[ShadowLord]

Hexx--
NON SFC STUFF--- LOS ANGLES VS SEAWOLF

I could be way off base here seeing as how I am just an armchair critic..

But the seawolf (if it lives up to what it was supposed to be able to do ) blows even the improved LA class subs right out of the water..

Faster
Quieter
Better armed and better sensors...
However the seawolf was really designed to go after the soviet ballistic missile submarine fleet and that mission no longer has the priority it once did, add to that the cost of the seawolf and the program was stalled at 3 ships instead of the 29? originally planed.

Again never having been in the navy I can only go off the "public" information but -- the seawolf is supposed to be at least one full generation ahead of the LA class boats in just about everything that matters.
As far as I know the only sub that even comes close to comparison is the new Virginia Class Attack subs -- which they produced as a cheaper more limited version of the SeaWolf .

ShadowLord

[OlBuzzard]

REAR firing torps on the Enterprise ??

LOL ...   sorry .. as much as I dont always agree with the way some have griped about the NX-1  ( which is a good model ) ...  I must confess that this is a really BAD blooper.

Two of the main reasons that the Miranda class was supposedly at a tactical advantage of the Connie was due to the two "super" phasers  ( sorry the tech-no- babel escapes me for the time being ...)  .. and the AFT torps !!!

OY !!  I cant believe they missed that one !!

[Ravok]

 The writer said in a interview he knew he knew he was going to catch hell for them,and the blue phasers.

[Hexx]

Hexx--
NON SFC STUFF--- LOS ANGLES VS SEAWOLF

I could be way off base here seeing as how I am just an armchair critic..

But the seawolf (if it lives up to what it was supposed to be able to do ) blows even the improved LA class subs right out of the water..

Faster
Quieter
Better armed and better sensors...
However the seawolf was really designed to go after the soviet ballistic missile submarine fleet and that mission no longer has the priority it once did, add to that the cost of the seawolf and the program was stalled at 3 ships instead of the 29? originally planed.

Again never having been in the navy I can only go off the "public" information but -- the seawolf is supposed to be at least one full generation ahead of the LA class boats in just about everything that matters.
As far as I know the only sub that even comes close to comparison is the new Virginia Class Attack subs -- which they produced as a cheaper more limited version of the SeaWolf .

ShadowLord

Thanks Shadow

I actually meant though that afaik Some LA class submarines and some Seawolf class have been modified from the original design
so there is actually different equipment on them.- even though all are considered a Loas Angeles or a Seawolf class submarine respectively.
If they do this now I see no reason why all Consitution class ships a few hundred years from now should be identical.

We know the Enterprise was outfitted for a "Five Year Mission To Explore.." maybe the Defiant was outfitted for a five year
mission to blow things up.
The Show- as produced originally- wasn't meant to have all this intense scruntiny directed at it.
Alot of the stories make absolutley no technical sense (see Scip's quote ) but most of the "hard to explain" stuff gets overlooked.
Defiant was (afaik) never shown in the original series firing any weapons.
Therefore in cannon Star Trek it had rear mounted weapons and blue phasers 

[FPF-DieHard]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

[Ravok]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

 They seemed to switch for no apparent reason.

 The first phasers where wight, and looked like photons and made no sound.

 Then they switched them to beam weapons. That switched between blue and red, depending on the year and episode.

 Thats why I'm not all that bent about the defiant having rear photons. If they didn't use canon then why be anal about it now?

[OlBuzzard]

I definately agree about the phaser thingy ..  they changed it several times  ...

but the AFT torps ...   hehehehe  ( well  ...   it is kind of a blooper ) I'm not the sort to "fry" some one over it ...   but it is a little out of place !

[OlBuzzard]

Hexx--
NON SFC STUFF--- LOS ANGLES VS SEAWOLF

I could be way off base here seeing as how I am just an armchair critic..

But the seawolf (if it lives up to what it was supposed to be able to do ) blows even the improved LA class subs right out of the water..

Faster
Quieter
Better armed and better sensors...
However the seawolf was really designed to go after the soviet ballistic missile submarine fleet and that mission no longer has the priority it once did, add to that the cost of the seawolf and the program was stalled at 3 ships instead of the 29? originally planed.

Again never having been in the navy I can only go off the "public" information but -- the seawolf is supposed to be at least one full generation ahead of the LA class boats in just about everything that matters.
As far as I know the only sub that even comes close to comparison is the new Virginia Class Attack subs -- which they produced as a cheaper more limited version of the SeaWolf .

ShadowLord

it was this this clear cut advantage of the SeaWolf class that I chose to rename the Advanced Cruiser designs I've been involved with to the "SeaWolf" class as well.  Their maneuverability, and stealthy design approach is excellent for the class of ship they are !

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

 They seemed to switch for no apparent reason.

 The first phasers where wight, and looked like photons and made no sound.

 Then they switched them to beam weapons. That switched between blue and red, depending on the year and episode.

 Thats why I'm not all that bent about the defiant having rear photons. If they didn't use canon then why be anal about it now?

That the phasers lookded like photons briefly in TOS has been documented in either stephen whitfields the making of star trek, or David Gerrold's the world of star trek as a production house error and no time or budget to fix. The very early ship phasers were yellow at one point with a different sound effects and the photons in "arena" were wobbly things. Once they got it all figured out, blue phasers became the norm.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

Hey, would you mind if I took that pic and used it now and again?  I've the feeling it could come in useful for the Mirror Mirror server, and a (hopefully) upcoming Cestus Incident server.  And for just general picking on a few of the Bruce from time to time

-S'Cipio

[Dfly]

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

Hey, would you mind if I took that pic and used it now and again?  I've the feeling it could come in useful for the Mirror Mirror server, and a (hopefully) upcoming Cestus Incident server.  And for just general picking on a few of the Bruce from time to time

-S'Cipio

heyhey, we will have none of that Cestus in this family.

[Ravok]

Weren't all TOS phasers blue?

 They seemed to switch for no apparent reason.

 The first phasers where wight, and looked like photons and made no sound.

 Then they switched them to beam weapons. That switched between blue and red, depending on the year and episode.

 Thats why I'm not all that bent about the defiant having rear photons. If they didn't use canon then why be anal about it now?

That the phasers lookded like photons briefly in TOS has been documented in either stephen whitfields the making of star trek, or David Gerrold's the world of star trek as a production house error and no time or budget to fix. The very early ship phasers were yellow at one point with a different sound effects and the photons in "arena" were wobbly things. Once they got it all figured out, blue phasers became the norm.

 Thanks for the Info. Tobin!   I allways wondered, what exactly was the deal there. +1 for you

 Personally I like the Blue Phasers.  And I allways thought not having rear firing Photons was just stupid.
 Its the only weapon you can fire at warp ( I believe) And a good way to keep somebody off your tail if you are turning or trying to disengage.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Actually all TOS weapons could fire at warp and the ship could even turn without dropping out of warp. "the ultimate computer" for example, enterprise does warp 3 and 4 firing phasers at the wargame starships as well as firing photons at the automated ore freighter.

[Ravok]

Actually all TOS weapons could fire at warp and the ship could even turn without dropping out of warp. "the ultimate computer" for example, enterprise does warp 3 and 4 firing phasers at the wargame starships as well as firing photons at the automated ore freighter.

 You know the TOS well. Half of this I have forgotten. 

[Alidar Jarok]

Two of the main reasons that the Miranda class was supposedly at a tactical advantage of the Connie was due to the two "super" phasers  ( sorry the tech-no- babel escapes me for the time being ...)  .. and the AFT torps !!!

I thought the main reason the Reliant had a tactical advantage over the Enterprise is because they knocked out main power with a Phaser blast and crippled the ship.

BTW, the one consistant thing about the Enterprise that I've always heard is that she is fast.  Not only do I recall this in several episodes, but, in the Phase II series they never made, they were going to specifically mention that the Enterprise is faster than Klingon ships.  Its possible that the Defiant, instead of being fast, was more heavily armed.

Was making this in paint.  Not too good quality, but you get the idea.

Hey, would you mind if I took that pic and used it now and again?  I've the feeling it could come in useful for the Mirror Mirror server, and a (hopefully) upcoming Cestus Incident server.  And for just general picking on a few of the Bruce from time to time

-S'Cipio

Use it all you want

[ShadowLord]

Hexx..seawolf and LA class works as a comparison (sort of ) for what you were visioning -- however go with the old B52 as a prime example

The original b52 was dumping Dummy bombs or the big nuke--

Today it can still fill that mission but adds Stand off ranged weapons, improved ew gear etc etc ..

So yep it could be that the CA class we saw was one that had undergone numerous upgrades in an attempt to help increase it's ability to survive.

Workable..but for those of us who grew up watching Jimmy Boy..well it was just wrong to give that ship all those extra tactical advantages.

ShadowLord

[Ravok]

Hexx..seawolf and LA class works as a comparison (sort of ) for what you were visioning -- however go with the old B52 as a prime example

The original b52 was dumping Dummy bombs or the big nuke--

Today it can still fill that mission but adds Stand off ranged weapons, improved ew gear etc etc ..

So yep it could be that the CA class we saw was one that had undergone numerous upgrades in an attempt to help increase it's ability to survive.

Workable..but for those of us who grew up watching Jimmy Boy..well it was just wrong to give that ship all those extra tactical advantages.

ShadowLord

 Good point!!! Really good point!!  I can't believe I did not think of that (USAF 20 Years) .

 And It would fix the glaring holes in the connies weapons arcs. I really can see this as a logical refit.