Topic: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?  (Read 3633 times)

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Offline Herr Burt

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D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« on: April 27, 2005, 09:48:47 am »
We've all, best beloved, heard a lot about how many SFB rules were left out of SFC.  Time pressure can be so stressful, and the cucumber sandwiches do get soggy if you leave them sitting too long while you are trying to get that last rule into your code.  I don't blame Taldren for leaving some of the rules out.  But then again, not all of SFB was intended to use all of the rules.  I was always impressed by just how close you could get to a simulation of Tournament SFB using the SFC package.   (Yes, the drone rules do get pesky, but then drones rules are always pesky, best beloved.)

This thought puts me in mind of the most fun I ever had in tournament play:  a tournament in which each particiant was allowed to enter multiple times, so long as he took a different ship each time.  (And paid the entry fee.)  I'm of a mind to duplicate this experience right here in D2 land, if any of you are of a mind to try.

A cash prize would be given, and maybe even a trophy.  And maybe I could be convinced, best beloved, to pay you a personal visit.  Imagine me, Herr Burt, staying in your home.  Eating your food.  Maybe even sleeping in your bed (you get the floor), and giving you all sorts of captainly advice!

Here is what I had in mind:

*You may enter the tournament up to three times, but each time must be with a different ship.  You will not have to fight yourself in the first round, and only the best of your ships goes forward into the second round.

*Tournament ships would be used.  These would be EXACT COPIES of the tournament SSDs that are now current in competitive SFB.  Yes, some translate better to SFC than others.  Keep this in mind when you choose your entries.  This will require me to make a tourney shiplist since current SFC tourney ships do not include all options and are not corrected with the latest updates.  (Eg. The Rom King Eagle gets a bit more armor these days.)  I'll include several copies of an Orion tourney ship, and Orion players may choose two to be their "ship".  They get to chose which of the two to use after learning the race of each opponent.

*Exact tournament rules would be used.  Most of the rules reduction that is done for SFB tourneys has already been handled by SFC, (eg. no narrow salvos) but a few more rules would need to be added that the players would have to be mindful of.  (For example, in SFB tournmenets you may gain ECM by launching weasels and various other methods, but you may not spend any power on ECM or ECCM.)

*Combats would be flown using the SFC tourney map, with no terrain.

*Combats would be flown in two rounds.  In the first round, everyone fights everyone else once.  (You don't have to fight your own ships.)  In the second round, the top 8 ship records are chosen and seeded, and then fight a single elimination for the eventual winner.  If a player has more than one of his ships qualify for the second round, the best ship advanced.  If a tie, he chooses which he wants to take.

*Each win must be documented by sending me a film of the combat.   You win my eternal affection if you post to the D2 forum a running commentary.

*Supplies will be limited only to what a tourney ship would have in a SFB tourny game, including fighters, shuttles, marines, drones, etc.  Yes, drones are a bitch since in SFC their upgrades are an all or nothing deal.  I haven't worked it out exactly yet what will happen, but the Kzin will be able to do something with drones that no one else can.

*I reserve the absolute right to toss out on his ear, without warning, anyone who makes an arse out of himself.

*I reserve the right to enter the first round of the tournament, but will not advance to the second round even if I score in the top eight.  (Then again, I may not enter. But it would be fun.)

As I said, a cash prize will be given.  The size of the prize will depend upon the number of entrants and the amount of interest in paying a nominal entry fee.  (If there is a fee, it will all go to the prize, and thus the prize will be bigger.)  If the winner is interested, I can provide them with a "trophy", which would consist of a carefully painted (by moi) SFB miniature of their winning ship.

More rules to follow after I've made them up determined interest in the tourney.

So, anyone up for it?

-Herr Burt
« Last Edit: April 27, 2005, 12:50:59 pm by Herr Burt »
Happy Warmongering!

762_XC

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2005, 10:00:37 am »
Sounds fun!

Offline Father Ted

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2005, 12:04:55 pm »
I think it's a great idea, because I played in the SFB tournament at Origins when it was in Fort Worth around 12 years ago, and had a blast(even though I did better at BattleTech).

I think an Orion shiplist could be set up to give players about just about any Tournament legal ship in the arsenal, and they get the choice of two to use in lieu of the option mounts. You might also consider adding the WYN, because those "Auxiliary Battlecruisers", overarmed, overpowered freighters were always popular, though I'm not sure if their Shark class has passed them in tourney use. Now here comes the but.....

The drone problem alone makes it problematic, because of the stringent requirement on so many type-1s, a limited number of 4s, and the drone speed.  You'll have to either nerf the Kitties and Klinks, or give the other races better drone defense. Also, are we just going to exclude Andys and Tholians?

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2005, 12:25:12 pm »
The tournament ships do not translate well at all with Double Internals.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2005, 12:34:50 pm »
Soooo I have to fight Feds and don't get to use ECM??
What about erratic manuevers?

What if I lose?
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Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 12:47:51 pm »
I think it's a great idea, because I played in the SFB tournament at Origins when it was in Fort Worth around 12 years ago, and had a blast(even though I did better at BattleTech).

Damn!!!!  I was there!  I didn't make it past the second round in the captain's tournament.  I got taken out by Tom Carrol, the previous year's winner.  But I stuck around all weekend and played a lot in the patrol tournament.

I wonder if we met?

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Offline Herr Burt

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 01:01:33 pm »
I think an Orion shiplist could be set up to give players about just about any Tournament legal ship in the arsenal, and they get the choice of two to use in lieu of the option mounts.

Yes, I agree.  That's my plan.

Quote
You might also consider adding the WYN, because those "Auxiliary Battlecruisers", overarmed, overpowered freighters were always popular, though I'm not sure if their Shark class has passed them in tourney use.

I intend to include both versions of the WYN, and will have to do a bit of duplication there to give their captains the choice of option mounts.  (and thank you VERY much for remind me I've got more work to do than I first remembered.... <grumble>). 

Quote
The drone problem alone makes it problematic, because of the stringent requirement on so many type-1s, a limited number of 4s, and the drone speed. 

Drones are definitely the biggest bugbear in the batch.  I haven't quite finalized what I want to do with drones.  But, whatever my final decision, I'll announce it well in advance.  Then players can see my decision and treat the drones as they would any other translation probem when they decide what ships they want to enter with. 

Quote
Also, are we just going to exclude Andys and Tholians?

A pity, but yes.  There is no chance I can include either of these races.  I've introduced "first cousins" of Andros and Tholians in past servers, but I can't do that here in this kind of event.

-Herr Burt
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Offline Father Ted

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 01:03:30 pm »
The only guy I played that I remember was an engineer from Atlanta. Can't remember his name, but he ended up finishing in the top 8 of the Patrol Tournament. Real nice guy, and his Lyran wiped out my D7C thanks to the worst die rolls in the history of gaming. As you know, in SFB, the lower the roll, the better. In BattleTech, it's the opposite. You want high rolls. I had the most cursed set of dice this side of a rigged craps game. The only reason did better with BT was that I was up against a couple of rank amateurs who never heard of punching or kicking with their mechs. ;)

BTW: It's quite possible we did cross paths, because if I wasn't playing SFB or BT, I was either getting drunk or hanging out at the chat sessions with the SFB Aces or SVC.  ;D

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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2005, 01:05:49 pm »
Soooo I have to fight Feds and don't get to use ECM??
What about erratic manuevers?

What if I lose?

Erratic manuevers cost power....
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Offline Hexx

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2005, 01:09:37 pm »
Not if I cheat.

And what the heck does the tournament Lyran have anyway?
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Offline Herr Burt

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2005, 01:12:19 pm »
Soooo I have to fight Feds and don't get to use ECM??
What about erratic manuevers?

What if I lose?

As I recall, you can't use erratic maneuvers under tournament rules.   But I'm not dead positive.

I did a quick cursory look for my tournament rule book last night.  (That is, I opened my desk lid and looked at the pile of stuff inside.)  Tonight I'll give it a more rigorous search.  (That is, I'll actually move some stuff around.)

Don't worry about losing, your magnificence.  Should the unthinkable happen, I'm sure we can blame it on an insidious plot by Fluf.

-Herr Burt
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Offline Herr Burt

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2005, 01:17:53 pm »
And what the heck does the tournament Lyran have anyway?


All of the tournament SSDs can be seen (and downloaded) here:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/tournament/tourn_down.htm

This is a link to the official site maintaned by ADB.  There are several playtest tournament ships at the bottom of the page, which will not be included in our tournament.

-Herr Burt
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Offline Father Ted

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2005, 01:23:17 pm »
Unless they changed the rules, EM and EW are both out in SFB tourneys. The only allowed ECM is a weasle. I'm not positive about this, but I also think that the Kitties and Klinks are limited to one scatterpack. That's the good news. The bad news is that only Andys were allowed to carry t-bombs.

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Offline Hexx

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2005, 01:27:27 pm »
<snicker>
Feds have no drones
poor DH


Err the LDR ship looks kinda mean as well.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2005, 02:07:58 pm »
With double internals, you are a fool if you fly anything other than "Big Plasma" tourney ships.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline GDA-Agave

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2005, 02:09:52 pm »
Very cool idea Herr Burt!!

I haven't flown those tourney ships since my days of whooping DocPsycho around in Winston Salem.

I don't think I ever flew a Gorn tourney ship.    Hmmm, might have to try it.  I usually flew Klingon, while Doc flew Tholian or Fed.

I'll dig out my SFB tourney ships and rules tonight.

Mucho cool.


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Offline Hexx

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2005, 02:40:16 pm »
With double internals, you are a fool if you fly anything other than "Big Plasma" tourney ships.

Well some of us (and by "us" I mean me, and by "some of" I mean, well nothing actually)
Actually would be more interested in flying our race ships than the "guaranteed win" of the "big plasma"
tourne ships (err "tourney ships")

Maybe if for once in your sad little NJ based life you should try simply flying for fun- rather than for the " non fool" status of flying something else.

Of course I'm going to get my ass kicked now but hey, I'm sure a snuff pic will show up soon anyhow so..  :P
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Offline Hexx

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2005, 03:46:56 pm »
Just ooc - why aren't you allowed to use power ECM/ECCM in SFB Tourneys?
Is it that big a deal?
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2005, 04:02:45 pm »
Just ooc - why aren't you allowed to use power ECM/ECCM in SFB Tourneys?
Is it that big a deal?


Two reason . . .

1.   DRASTICLY slows down the game.

2.  The ships are balanced against each other with this in mind.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


762_XC

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2005, 06:23:51 pm »
With double internals, you are a fool if you fly anything other than "Big Plasma" tourney ships.

A debate as old as recorded history. What I think will really nerf plasma in tourney play is the much larger maps.

Offline Hexx

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2005, 06:32:48 pm »
As long as we prohibit the plasma chuckers from firing pseudo's I don't see an issue.
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Offline Dfly

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2005, 06:37:43 pm »
Having problems posting tonight, hope this one makes it.  I like the tourney idea, and fake plasmas are fine.  The idea of cash flow thing kinda is not so cool, as that my drive people away from this, so gl.

Offline Herr Burt

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2005, 10:08:08 pm »
Having problems posting tonight, hope this one makes it.  I like the tourney idea, and fake plasmas are fine.  The idea of cash flow thing kinda is not so cool, as that my drive people away from this, so gl.

I understand that money, if I go with a fee, would be a concern for many.  Please understand that when I say nominal, I do mean nominal.  I was thinking something along a dollar per ship to enter.  All would go to the prize.  That would make the prize bigger, and the game might be a bit more exciting if you have just a bit of cash on the line.  Watching your favorite sporting team play is exciting; watching them play when you've got a dollar bet against your best friend is a whole different world of excitement.  Since the prize will be bigger than what I collect, there is no chance of my surreptitiously turning any profit on this venture.

But I remain eager to see how many would be willing to enter under these circumstances. 

-Herr Burt
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Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2005, 10:32:17 am »
I'm in, if I can quiet the Eve habit long enough to take you posers out of your ships.

Kroma,
PS, Hexx you soooooo, nailed DH on the head. He is more affraid of losing than inspired by winning. He is a Carebear if I ever saw one. <snicker>
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2005, 10:51:28 am »
I'm in, if I can quiet the Eve habit long enough to take you posers out of your ships.

Kroma,
PS, Hexx you soooooo, nailed DH on the head. He is more affraid of losing than inspired by winning. He is a Carebear if I ever saw one. <snicker>

Oh we REALLY need a server where the Feds fight the Gorn again   ;D

EDIT:   changed Smiley
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline KAT J'inn

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2005, 10:52:47 am »
 :rofl:

Offline GDA-Agave

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2005, 02:01:48 pm »
I'm in, if I can quiet the Eve habit long enough to take you posers out of your ships.

Kroma,
PS, Hexx you soooooo, nailed DH on the head. He is more affraid of losing than inspired by winning. He is a Carebear if I ever saw one. <snicker>

Oh we REALLY need a server where the Feds fight the Gorn again   ;D

EDIT:   changed Smiley

HAHAHAHA!!    If you thought GW5 was bad.    Wait until we sent out the call for all the Bruce!!   ::)

The Brown Stain would spread throughout the Fed quadrants.  You flatheads wouldn't stand a chance!!   :o


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Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2005, 02:14:43 pm »


The Brown Stain would spread throughout the Fed quadrants.  You flatheads wouldn't stand a chance!!   :o




Ut Oh, they serving nachos at the Gorn Naval commissary again?
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Offline Green

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2005, 07:07:48 pm »
*I reserve the right to enter the first round of the tournament, but will not advance to the second round even if I score in the top eight.
HA ... like that would happen ;) 

I'm game.  No idea what can do what ... the little box thingies are just too much to figure out how they really will convert to SFC ... but I really don't care, I'd play. 

Offline Dfly

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2005, 11:05:12 pm »
In case I was not clear on last post, count me in too.

Offline Herr Burt

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Re: D2 Tournament Ship Tourney: Up for it?
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2005, 12:28:24 am »
In case I was not clear on last post, count me in too.

Good to hear!   :thumbsup:

I appreciate all the support I've seen in this trhead so far.  Hopefully this will work out well, and we can all have a lot of fun with it -- in a manner that's a slight twist to anything we've done before.

-Herr Burt
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