Topic: Quit being a party pooper Dallas.

[Slider]

Sure you lock my thread but you let them ramble for days. Equal time bud

[Dallas]

Sorry if I have a life and I didn't catch it sooner.

This isn't up for debate, everyone needs to go take
their meds and chill out.

I love ya Slider but there will be no flame fests.

[Slider]

Its a poll not a Flame...its a gathering of opinion. Now unlock my thread before I stick a drone in your arse.

[K9]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
and then
ROTFLFAO

[Slider]

K9 you old mutt how are ya. As you can see im still the Don Quixote of the forums.

[K9]

Well slider Im old.

Its good to see you Mini, duck, Dfly, and a few of the old old old (did I say old?) timers still around.

Its great that you guys still care enough to put up with the obivious BS that still seems to stalk this league.

[Slider]

yea, i cant believe im still around. lol. Well I havent been all that much. Just recently resurface and dug my disk out of the back yard. (Yes i really buried it.)

As always its all my fault Im the mean forum flamer, im the one cussing and screaming like a british greek goat with herpes.

[K9]

I told you a long time ago you were a jerk and you didnt beleive me. Now I bet you do ;0

[Slider]

I know you were right, *sigh* I am a jerk...and Whoo did bury that GZ code. That bastige.

I still luv you though. <3

[K9]

Your full of first Slider.

As far as I can recall your the only admin that stuck around.

Generally after being an admin here you have to either shoot yourself in the foot and leave, or be admitted to a psych ward.

No admin has ever stuck around and played the game afterward.

Except you.

So your not only a jerk but you have a very high tolerance for ignorance.

I imagine your much like a starfish on a rock at the edge of the ocean. Sure it would be easier to let go, get out of the pounding surf, to get your meal, But you look soo much cooler hanging on the rock.

[KHH Jakle]

Generally after being an admin here you have to either shoot yourself in the foot and leave, or be admitted to a psych ward.

No admin has ever stuck around and played the game afterward.

I resemble that remark...

Although, should I get my new system, there may be two of us.

[Slider]

ok here is a reasonale question i should have maybe asked years ago. I'll ask here amoung you whom know me.

Why do you put up with it?

I sorta understood Whoo's its a business, thing but even in business when people get abusive they are escorted from the premise and you have a right not to deal with them, especially if it will adversly effect your other customers.

IN the case here its a group of SFC enthusiasts whom for the most part share a certain sportsmanship code and are generally friendly toward each other.

I mean I can understand why they are mad at me, I dont put up with them, I stand up to them, I bash them on the forums with their own posts.

So again, Why put up with the abussiveness.

[KHH Jakle]

Couple things to think about:

This 'league' is run off of a forum, belonging to people who largely never come down in here.  Now that there is all this drama, they feel the need to police it.  The nice thing about this relative to the GZ forums, as you actually do have totally disinterested parties enforcing things based off of how they see things  - which is unbiased as I see it.

Realisitcally, if people don't want to put up with it, the only choice they have is to stop playing, or to try to pick up stakes and move somewhere else and disinvite the group that is percieved as causing the issue.

Thing is - who the hell want's to set that up? 

What you have here, with these forums, is largely neutral territory.  We've been given a parcel of land by a higher, unconcerned power to do as we like - so long as we play nice.  The only thing that's needed is one poor schlub to act as moderator. 

Kel has served as that for this cycle.  He won't be doing it again, so it will roll to someone else next cycle - Kroma I believe.  While it may be ideal to have a totally uninterested party be the moderator, it is totally unrealistic to expect that.  What person - who's totally disinterested and doesn't play - is going to be willing to donate their time and energy out of pure genorosity? 

I heard the same thing when I was admining GZ "you shouldn't be a player and an admin" - Jesus - you find somebody who want's the job and has no interest in playing.  You do that, they would be a golden admin - although I am certain some would still find ways to percieve actions in certain light

Until then, and as long as we all still want to play matches like this, we're stuck with what we've got and each other.  Might as well make the most of it and play nice.

[Whoo]

Well my "it's a business" attitude went a bit beyond that.
First off, you are dealing with alot of variables, internet connections, personalities, game flaws and even the occasional hack/cheat.
You can't realisitically expect to toss every person who takes the game seriously enough to vent an arguement on a public forum and stay open.  It's a competive outlet, and tempers will flare. Problem is (disagreeing with Jakle) the ONLY person who could realistically admin a game is someone who not only is involved in the game but also has a passion for the game and understands the quirks that go with it.

The problem isnt that there are arguements, disagreements and fights...
The problem is too many people get involved in public disputes and refuse to resolve things outside of the forums...
In other words people let other people get to them.

Too few admins understood this.

[Slider]

I learned throughout my time online just how incredible different people are. I mean there are people who talk to you everyday and act friendly but secretly harbor anger toward you. Yet there are people whom ive seldom spoke to only later to find that after 1 or 2 games we are fast friends.

There are people whom have strong opinions and those who dont.

There are people who judge people carefully and those who label quickly.

I rememeber thinking the first time I went to post on SL...."If I do this...If I take a position....some will hate me and spread the word, most will not even read what I write, some will applaud what I say but never acknowledge it for fear of joining me in the effigy set up by the first group.

So is it better to be silent....or vocal? To be private, or a politician who will have to measure everyword.

I think that decision comes from having a passion for the game or not.

Sure you cant win them all but would we have been better off without the arguements? Surprisingly....the answer is yes. I think arguements remind people its just a game and not worth it especially if their level of "commitment" is only cursury.

While I enjoy a great debate and still have some with my good friend Ronin to this day, I find most of the things I pressed for eventually would have come to pass regardless. All I did by posting about using Starbases models as ships to decrease weopon ranges for example was to upset 20-30 people (who now had to deal with accusations and fallout). It took me a long time to see that sometimes it takes time for the vine to crush the tree but eventually it does.

One thing I did learn fast was that cursing to get a point accross was admiting defeat. I would see that often people who engaged in colorful language did so to hide lack of facts or logical thinking. Flat out they had an agenda and sought to intimidate others by challengin them to pointless games or just cursing for the sake of cursing.  Of course thats never the case, and if you cuss just once...you'll hear about it forever.

So a person who wants to contribute and perhaps only has forum time is really in a quandry. So many things can go wrong more wrong than right. Like a favorite saying in football, "When you throw the ball 3 things can happen 2 of them are bad." this is also true for human communication and interactions especially when the following is not observed.

1. I,understand we are all different and all have at least at the starting point some opinion, even if its not well supported in facts.
2. I thnk  people need to be open minded: willing to consider the welfare of all the participants and not just their own position.
3. When you do encounter me online I am respectful, curtious and honorable. It costs me nothing and in the long run the friends ive made are the ones worth keeping.
4. If you cant say something good about someone dont. (ie ISC are leaving....good)
5. Have a sence of humor...most people post out of passion not hate. However if there is name calling I tend to believe there is fear anger and hate behind it. (if you laughed at number 4 then you know what I mean, If you PM'd your friends to drive my karma down by 7 points a day then please refer to Yoda "Fear leads to anger anger leads to hate hate leads to sufferng)

 I guess in 5 years, I have more regrets about forums than anything else....I guess if I could go back to that first post on the SL forums id hit the delete key before even posting.

However I did learn alot about people and group mentalities.  It goes along way in day to day life and if your going to make mistakes (which i have and Jakle and Whoo will love to point out) I think  that Ive gotten way more out of the experience by trying to communicate, than those silent missing who just walked out on the game simply because it was too much emotional energy to care.

I think if we argue not to fight, but to clear things up and come to a mutually accceptable condition, then thats what its all about. I dont think its posible to interact and Never fight or argue. I think thats human as long as there is respect.

[K9]

Seems to me to simply be the nature of the beast. At best an organized league is doomed to fail at some point due to new games and at worst gets destructive by its very nature. I mean come on its awfully hard to ask people to get involved in a game, then become competitive with one another for months if not years and to also be firends. I mean this type of gamming will never be the same as a friendly game of pool, and people get shot everyday all over the country over a friendly game of pool.

I agree you have to not only be a player to be an admin but you have to be an exceptional player to be a good admin. (probably why I was so bad at at). I allways liked the way we had good guy admins and bad guy admins when we did GZ. Hit them with a rock (me generally) then when the smoothing came along (Whoo, Jackle) they were a lot more intrested in listening to reason.

[Whoo]

Actually you were a big pain in the ass...

But I still love ya anyways

[K9]

You mean like hemerriod pain, or like jalapenio pain?

[Whoo]

Sitting on a bed of hot coals while a goat tugs at your privates type pain.

[K9]

Billy goat or Mountain goat?

lol